70% of African Americans backed Prop. 8, exit poll finds

A lot of Obama/Yes-on-8 voters? The Associated Press exit polls show that African Americans and Latinos backed Proposition 8 in good numbers. Details here from AP:

California's black and Latino voters, who turned out in droves for Barack Obama, also provided key support in favor of the state's same-sex marriage ban. Seven in 10 black voters backed a successful ballot measure to overturn the California Supreme Court's May decision allowing same-sex marriage, according to exit polls for The Associated Press.

More than half of Latino voters supported Proposition 8, while whites were split. Religious groups led the tightly organized campaign for the measure, and religious voters were decisive in getting it passed. Of the seven in 10 voters who described themselves as Christian, two-thirds backed the initiative. Married voters and voters with children strongly supported Proposition 8. Unmarried voters were heavily opposed.

-- Shelby Grad

Photo: Los Angeles Times

Comments

[Adam]

@Deborah

"Because I voted to preserve the traditional definition of marriage I am a bigot?"

Hate to break it to you, but since you voted to take away rights from people, yes that does make you a bigot.

"But I also will fight to the death for the rights of my family and my religious freedoms."

And how exactly would Prop 8 not passing have imposed on the rights of your family and religious freedoms? You would still be able to go out and marry a man. Absolutely nothing would've changed.

[Latte Sucking Liberal]

Hey there bible loving Christians! If you are going to take the word of the bible as social true instead of faith, how about Levidiccus 20: " 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death." Yeah....Since we don't do that we should have the government step in and behead about 1/4 of the american population! Or what about: 19 " 'Keep my decrees.
" 'Do not mate different kinds of animals.
" 'Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.
" 'Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material." (this means no poly cotten blends)

Even though you use the words of the bible to spread personal hate, I know that time and love will prevail. Love of another human is never a sin and no one knows this better then God and I beileve he would be glad to have more compassion in this world

[Tony in L.A.]

I'm Mexican and gay and married my husband in June. Our marriage may now be invalidated because of people's prejudice. Racism is different than homophobia which is different than sexism, etc. But one end result is the same: inequality. It's wrong. And eventually, we'll gain our full civil rights.

[Jay]

I don't appreciate you folks slamming black people on this board.

As a Christian African-American, I am ESTATIC that Prop 8 pass!

What gets me, is how gay/lesiban individuals always said their plight was like the black people in America, which is pure BS! The late great Reggie White said it best, "homosexuality is a decision, not a race". Thanks Reggie, may you rest in peace.

Being gay, a bi sexual-gay or a lesbian is a lifestyle CHOICE. Being black is NOT a choice. Do not give me that BS that gay's are born that way. A gay person can make a choice if whether or not they will be gay today or straight tomorrow.

A BLACK person cannot make the choice to be black today and white tomorrow. Being gay is a CHOICE...period. Being black is not a choice. It's not the same plight.

You folks obviously have no idea how much blacks have struggled for over 400 years. Gay's may have their struggles in today's society (about 40 years since they made the CHOICE to come out) but it's no where near the struggles of the black race in America.

People have the right to vote which ever way they want. For folks like you, who promote tolerance, you people need to be tolerant of votes of others. If not, you are a hypocrite.

[Orin Ryssman]

The argument has been made, and it has now been roundly refuted: Black Americans understand what discrimination means, and an Amendment to the State of California Constitution reaffirming that marriage is the union of one man and one woman is not discrimination; rather it is making clear what was once assumed to be known. The purposes of marriage are many, but one purpose is clear: it is about children. For the State to adopt as official policy and with the force of law express an agnosticism about this social institution is dangerous.

It is unfortunate that it had to come to this, but if that is what it takes then so be it. The collective wisdom of the voters, who btw elected Barack Obama by an overwhelming margin, have spoken. Now it is up to gays, lesbians and their political supporters to show some maturity and accept this verdict.

[Lessons from the past]

In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me —
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

[hurt and depressed]

Being gay is not a choice. Being ignorant is.

[Jennifer]

I am not surprised that African-American voters recoiled at the suggestion that "gay marriage" is a basic civil right. And they are correct to bristle at the way the gay movement has tried to make an analogy between the enslavement, brutal supression and segregation of black America with the homosexual community's quest to redefine marriage for the rest of society. African Americans have been brutalized for centuries solely because of the color of their skin, not because of any CHOICES they have made with regard to their lifestyle or what kinds of sexual relationships will define their lives. To live a homosexual lifestyle and to engage in homosexual sex are decisions and choice we make (though are inclinations are not), and no one in this election has tried to take away the rights of gays to make those choices and decisions, or to live openly gay lives and enjoy many protections. Californians have said (once again) that gays do not have the "right" to redefine marriage. To allow gays to marry is not to fulfill their "rights", it is to redefine what marriage and the family are. African Americans can see these differences quite clearly,and they had the clarity and the courage to vote yes on proposition 8. To call them bigoted for doing so is not only disgusting, but is to make a basic category error. No one is a bigot for standing up to protect marriage and families. Shame on the other side for resorting to name calling instead of discussing the issue on their merits!!

[HMD]

There is no difference between the social inequities and injustices suffered by marginalized groups of people. Prejudice based on race, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, etc is wrong. As gay latino male I'm disappointed and hurt by the way minorities voted in favor of Prop 8 - especially Latinos and Blacks.

My mother came to this country as an illiterate immigrant, while my father, who is also of Mexican descent and illiterate, was born in this country. Both suffered in this country because of their inability to read and write, and because of the color of their skin during the 50's and 60's in Texas. My mother also dealt with prejudice from Mexican-Americans because she was born in Mexico.

Despite their background, lack of formal education and the injustices they suffered, both of my parents who were devout Catholics, were far more progressive than California minorities who use the church pulpit to continue hate, intolerance and discrimination against the GLBT community.

As I told a friend of mine who was struggling with this issue because of her Catholic upbringing, I don't care to marry in your church or any other religious institution. I simply want to have the right to have a civil marriage. This is a basic human right that should not be voted on. That in and of itself is ludicrous.

I was so proud to have moved to California 3 years ago because I had this idea that the State was way more progressive than any other state in the U.S. As a minority I'm so disappointed. Quite honestly I'm hurt. I'm saddened to think that so many African-Americans and Hispanic voters would do this to another minority group.

What were you thinking?

And to the Hispanic community --- Despierten !!!!! WAKE UP!!!

[bumblebee]

in all fairness... people saying that the black struggle is not even close to the gay struggle, i disagree.. think of it this way, while gay people were never forced into slave labor or denied the vote, they TOO have been the victims of CONSTANT prejudice, ostracism, oppression, not to mention VIOLENCE as well. Lynchings equate to gay-bashings in my opinion, where a group of angry kids/rednecks attacks someone for simply being different. Also, at least african-americans are not accosted by people on the street claiming they are evil because the bible says so. And then people start passing legislation against someone because of what the bible says. While i think the african-american history is VERY different to that of gays, the issue of interracial marriage is NOT so different to the issue of gay marriage today.

BY THE WAY, in Leviticus where the famous "homosexuality is an abomination quote" it also condemns SHRIMP in the same severity a few passages later.

Just further proof that following the bible should not interfere with the rights of others.

Also, I think the high number of blacks who voted in favor of prop 8 probably had more to do with poor campaigning.

[Adam]

@Jay

Gee, you're right. All the gays should just DECIDE to be straight starting today, and this whole thing won't even be an issue anymore.

Idiot.

[Lemeritus]

Ironic

The Mormon church poured rivers of money into California to defeat Proposition 8, specifically targeting the AA community in the knowledge that they would be turning out by the millions to vote for Obama.

This would be the same church that until 1978 would not allow men of African descent to be ordained to the priesthood or allow black men or women of African descent to participate in temple ordinances such as the Endowment and sealing that the church teaches are necessary for the highest degree of salvation.

In other words, they used Obama to further their own bigotry.

[jf]

I am disgusted to call myself "Californian" today - we live in a state that now values the rights of chickens over the rights of human beings ... it is sickening to know that other marginalized groups in our state choose to pass the hate on to gays and lesbians, but they can now stand among their white hater-counterparts in solidarity and throw gasoline on another disenfranchised group to distract everyone from themselves. Bravo - welcome to the mainstream of hate that is America. Amen.

[Seth]

I'm very saddened by this. This state, that passed a ballot to protect animal rights, took away rights from another human being.

As a gay man, I am not a truly free citizen. I can be discriminated in employment, housing and of course marriage.

Racial segregation was not ended by popular vote. The right to vote for women and other minorities was granted by the general population.
It is the job of the government and the courts to step in to protect gay rights. When ever a minority was grated equality, it was always through intervention, not by popular vote.

[Yeson8]

White gays supported Proposition 209. Consider yourself paid in full.

[Rick A.]

Question for D. Nowland. How in the world are the rights of your family and religious freedoms impacted by allowing same sex couples to marry? This is totally irrational.

This vote was based on ignorance pure and simple. Regardless, we still have 18000 same sex couples in CA and they are not going away. It is a sad statement on opposite sex marriage if it is threatened by a same sex marriage. The 50% divorce rate among opposite sex couples has been happening long before we were allowed to marry. And no church has been forced to marry any same sex couple. We are supposed to live in a secular society- get with it, if you don't believe in same sex relationships and marriage, don't enter into one, but don't prevent us from doing so.

[Nicole]

I am SO APPAULED that ANYONE would have the audacity to compare the Civil Rights Movement with Prop 8. How dare you! A century of oppression, slavery, torture....and then several decades of unequal rights, jim crow laws, discrimination in neighborhoods, public venues..the workplace, harassment, hate crimes...compared to discrimination of gay people? Let me tell you something...black people did not choose to be black and you can see the color of their skin. You cannot "see" gay and you cannot simply compare already having rights such as a civil union and wanting to get more.....to a history of the black experience. That is just plain wrong and RUDE and belittling.

Second of all.....you cannot blame the passing of Prop 8 on a certain race. I agree that many voted strictly on religious reasons and based on the direct words in the bible it is wrong, and an abomination, and is a sin. Now to then compare that to those who had slaves and used the fact that they think those who are not Christians are an abomination and must be saved through slavery is not the same. First of all you can't use slavery and the bible as a correct comparison because nowhere in the bible does it say to forcefully show those who are not Christians that they should be one!! It states that Christians are supposed to be a light amongst non-believers and that by your acts ppl will want to know why you are so different. So for those who try and use this example.......do your research and realize that claim is null and void. HOWEVER...what is not null and void is a direct quote in the bible that says HOMOSEXUALITY IS AN ABOMINATION!!!! So don't get upset at people who are merely following the bible (such as this case) versus those who made interpretations of it and chose to come to whatever conclusion that thought fit their lifestyles (pro-slavers).

[greens]

SLS: "Try as you might you can not look at a gay person and say with all certainty that person is gay, But you CAN look at a black person and KNOW they are Black!"

by this logic, we can discriminate against Jews because who would know just by looking at them! This is seriously faulty logic. EVERY minority group is discriminated in one way or another, and this is WRONG. Imagine being discriminated against because a book that EVERYONE happens to read says that you're evil?

to everyone else:
There are a lot of faulty arguments on this board, and it just shows ME that this should not have been up for voters to decide in the first place. All lot of people are bringing the bible into this, which has NO place in ANY election/vote. Separation of Church and State is an extremely important part of our country's founding, and if your only reasoning against something is because the bible says so then you shouldn't bloody be voting/it shouldn't be on the ballot to begin with. THIS is my argument against prop 8, im not even touching upon the actual issue of whether gays should be married or not.

[Lemeritus]

@ Orin Ryssman

The collective wisdom of the voters once counted slaves as only 3/4 of a person and accepted "separate but equal" instead of equality. Think for a moment before invoking the law to justify discrimination.

[Adam]

The reason that blacks don't see gay marraige is because it is entirely different. Traditional marriage is a moral issue. I know gay supports don't like to hear that and want to argue that marriage is just a contract, but it is not. Marriage between a man and a woman is what is morally right and is in tune with what is good for society.

[Stephanie]

Interesting indeed. I am African American and I think these so called religious zealots should be ashamed of themselves. These are the people that are doing the most dirt. It's sickening that they are more accepting of murderers, rapists, molestors and the like into their congregation but are hell bent on holding someone back for simply wanting to get married. I don't want to hear the crap about the sanctity of marriage. You don't support homosexuals getting married but support someone like Britney Spears who was married for a whopping 63 hours or so.

Wake up people, first its discrimination against homosexuals then it can be skin color or gender.

[John]

66% of the younger generation (19-29) voted against this. The main responsible for this pass was the older generation (65+). I guess that tells you something about the future of this bigotry. California lost today, and now there's nothing that can be done. But I feel people will soon regret and, next time this goes to the ballot, the results will be different.

[eldar]

Ah.. California! We give rights to farm animals but take them away from people.

[Steveorevo]

Ask a gay black man if being discriminated against because your gay is any less hurtful then the color of our skin. Being shot dead because your gay doesn't make you any 'less dead' then being murdered for being black. Its still discrimination. Period.

[Fight for whats right]

@ Avril

First: Your capslock is jammed... Second: Comparing gays to animals just is so revealing of what you actually think. Third: homosexuality is not a chosen thng even for some uneducated (!!!) people this might be a comfortable belief.

I am so glad for my colored neighbors and friends that with Barack Obama they have gone another step towards total equality.

Gays and lesbians will go there too - if not now then in a few years: This is America and it will keep it's promise to everyone - even though the cancer that fundamentalist Christianity is might have scored a victory it will never win this war on people who think differently because people will never ever stop fighting agsinst what is wrong, hateful and discriminatory.

[Dasha]

I was outraged by them actually passing this prop. For the simple fact that they claim to be "protecting marriage"... who is to say that we are here to harm it?? Isnt marriage about love and committment?? So what is to think that a gay marriage would mean something different?? In the end this was people pushing their religious beliefs onto a entire state. Just like the article said, this proposition was backed by religious groups... but yet we are not supposed to be mixing religion and government. I even asked one of my coworkers what about gay marriage upsets him.. but he couldnt include God or any type of religious affiliations in his answer... and he said nothing! This was a ballot done with hatred and it just now shows that California is a state where discrimination is allowed, justified, and welcomed.

[Zyman]

All the reasoning and justification does not change that fact that homosexuality is a sin.
In Genesis chapter 19; God destroyed Sodom and Comorrah because of homosexuality. God. This is so because in leviticus 20:13 it says "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. " Did you get that? It's an abomination, period.
Many places where it talks about this. Read Romans Chapter 1:22 " Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."
When you insist on this, God says here, he will give you up to your lust. to do what you do.
On the other hand, being black is not a sin. You all equate what happened to the blacks and all other minorities; it's not the same.
This is why the christian community is against this. If you want to get married, call is a "union" or whatever name you wish; just don't call it marriage because that is restricted to man & woman. If you want to live your life as such do it, just don't get us involved with it. By asking for this you are trampling on our faith, which should be protected by the 1st ammendment,

[jf]

First of all, read up on your history of oppression of homosexuals throughout the world and the ages ... we've had our body parts cut off, our careers ended, our houses burned, been ripped from our families, we've been jailed and tortured and killed ... oh, wait, sound familiar? It doesn't matter if it's a choice or not (and it is not) because really I don't give a crap about your bible ... it ain't my bible. America, California, is not supposed to be a theocracy ... separation of church and state ... we ask for nothing more than anybody else has, and demand nothing less. It isn't over. It will never be over until we have equal access UNDER THE LAW, not under your god, whatever that may be.

[grazi]

it's a shame like being back to the inquisition

[compassionate conservative]

I'm glad that the majority in California still fear God more than Man. Heaven help you when that changes.

[Skokeisha]

How ironic it is that black people's bodies were enslaved to white men years ago and then liberated; only to find that their minds are enslaved to this thing called the bible.

Such a shame that such a fine race of people is terrified by something as harmless as homosexuality.

[Jay]

@Adam

Thanks Adam, for helping me to prove my point!

Yes, a gay/lesbian person can DECIDE if whether or not he/she will be a straight person starting today. However, a black male/female cannot DECIDE if he/she will be a white man or white woman starting today. Again, to be gay in America is a CHOICE and by right if they CHOOSE the gay lifestyle they can.

Again, their plight is not like African-Americans.

BTW, you also proved my point that you are a hypocrite for not being tolerant, to my views. Let us help educate you on the struggles of black people in America.

The below is a post from j2tharome:

"I'm not African-American, but how can you compare what Homosexuals are going through to what African-Americans went through (and to a certain extent, still going through).

-Homosexuals were never forced to come to an unknown land

-Homosexuals were never forced to do slave labor

-Homosexuals never experienced going to seperate bathrooms or other facilities

-Homosexuals were never waterhosed

-Homosexuals were never denied to vote

So spare me the, "how can African-Americans not understand what we're going through?" crap. I doubt MLK, Malcolm X and any other civil rights leader would've approved of this.

Posted by: j2tharome "

Thanks j2tharome for being aware of the struggles of African-Americans in this country.

[Shyvooodoo]

WOW, I cannot believe that this loss is gonna be laid at the feet of the Blacks!!! If it wasn't for the title of this article, NOBODY would have ever known who was so called "responsible" for this passing or not. A lot of people voted yes because of the simple fact that they don't want this stuff taught to their children. That's the parents job to teach them whats right or whats wrong. If you asked Blacks what was more important, believe you me Gay Marriage would not even make the top ten.

I'm sorry but you can't blame this on the Blacks. The Latinos voted against it, so did whites also... Besides if the "NO on Prop 8" group was a little more truthful with what they were trying to get across, it might have passed. And for those who are ashamed to be Californians now, there is 49 other states, pick one and leave....

[jf]

And, furthermore, if you are so attached to your religious morality, then let's just take the whole marriage issue out of the equation - MARRIAGE FOR NONE, CIVIL UNIONS FOR ALL regardless of gender, UNDER THE LAW.

[J in Pasadena]

This is the first major Obama betrayal of his constituency. He had a clear choice to come out strongly against anti-gay Prop. 8, but he chose to be weak on the issue. He said he was against Gay marraige but simply didn't like the language in the initiative -- Just another form of "Don't ask, don't tell." He chose his path not for the rights of the disenfranchised but for the promotion of his own power. He knew he would attract a voting bloc that would ban Gay marriage, yet he did nothing to support this issue of Civil Rights. Obama betrayed the Gay community that strongly supported him, and he did it in a very transparent and evil way.

[Najee]

ughhh.. and to clarify... barack obama is personally against gay marraige because of religious beliefs which he admits.. but he aslo has the intelligence to know that not everyone has his beliefs and to LEGISLATE based on a belief is wrong... that is why he is against prop 8.... and i wish people would stop trying to pass the buck and blame the black community for the passage of prop 8 because half of the white community and more than half of the hispanic community voted for it... this lets me know that this is something that supercedes race... its a societal ill to believe homosexuality is evil....

[Marcus Aurelius]

"Of the seven in 10 voters who described themselves as Christian, two-thirds backed the initiative."

Do Christians really believe homosexuality is wrong because their invisible friend "god" tells them so? Go ahead and practice your make believe as long as you don't force your delusions on the rest of us.

[Ashamed Angeleno]

Right, and if black people would just "choose" not to be black, their lives could be so much improved.

Do you people ever READ what you POST?

[A. Lagos]

1) Lessons from the past: Divolving to a Hitler analogy is absurd. It is proof you don't have a legitimate counter-argument.
2) Religious education lesson: consumption of shrimp, or pork or anything else stated as non-kosher (treif) is violation of the mitzvot (commandments) and if memory serves, Jews recognize 613 of them. And the Orthodox Jews I know condemn homosexuality, they also condemn eating treif foods, or anything else that the mizvot prohibit, which is why I know never to invite them over on the Jewish Sabbath and make sure to provide meals that do not combine meat and milk or use pork or any of the other kashrut rules. So yes, the tanakh (Jewish word for old testament) states that shrimp and other foods are prohibited, and if you're wondering why Christians don't follow those same rules, Christ released us from many of the Jewish mitzvot, those that he did not still bind. So whilst Christians no longer need to keep kosher, we still need to abide by those things in the Old Covenant that weren't superceded with the New Covanent (which He was sent to Earth to deliver).

[Tom]

The real problem is that the gay community has commingled two separate issues and the one is damning the other. The first issue is about the rights of gays who have vowed to a life long committed relationship, and the second is about calling that relationship a marriage. The gay community would get a lot more support on the first issue if they would not insist on the second. You simply cannot co-opt a word that has a specific and longstanding meaning to those to whom it is applied, and to whom sexuality is a core element of that meaning. You may wish to claim equivalence - but you can't because the meaning is created by those to whom it is applied, and those people feel heterosexuality is at the heart of the meaning. So, the gay community has co-mingled a claim to rights with a cultural attack. On Prop 8 you may be getting strong responses from Blacks and Latinos and those who are married because they may feel the cultural attack more acutely and have a stronger desire to defend their cultural beliefs. So just drop the attack, work to get the specific rights that are denied, and respect the cultural semantics of others.

[psp]

"This is equivalent to voting in the first Gay American President while at the same time mandating that a black person cannot marry a white person. Sad day in CA for civil rights."
Right on JM...my thoughts exactly. Although a gay Democrat I will certainly not be at the fore front any more fighting against discrimination against African-Americans or Latinos.
I propose the gay community begin a drive for a constitutional amendment that either oultaws divorce or that gives the "benfits' of marriage only to one's First marriage and civil union status for those after that.
Anyone interested?

[josh]

Im not sure why people think it is fine to run a secular government based on what the bible says. Isnt that akin to forming laws based on the Koran? Would you be okay with our government doing that?
We have a lot of growing up to do as a culture. I feel for my gay friends who give so much to our community and strive for the same rights as everyone else. They are denied the same kind of status because adults do not know how to talk to their kids about how the world really is.

[scott]

By 1940, a majority (31 out of 48) of states had banned interracial marriage (or "miscegenation") in some form.

"The issue was settled once and for all in 1967. In the case of Loving v. Virginia the United States Supreme Court ruled that all bans on interracial marriage were unconstitutional...

this was not so long ago... why do we forget?

[Adam]

Marriage is about family. A man and woman by the nature of their gender can produce a child by having sex. The child is then raised by his mother and father who each have unique traits to offer the child in their development. Every child has a right to have a relationship with their mother and father.

[WTL]

As a straight, white, married, baptized male, I see this as a shameful betrayal by people who should know better, who should have learned empathy from their struggles for equal rights, struggles fought with the considerable help of people from all walks of life.

What if I said that this vote by blacks and Latinos - which goes against everything Jesus preached - shows they're not worthy of the privilege of voting? After all, they claim their vote against gay marriage is bible-based. Well, do they honestly think Jesus would have voted for Prop 8? They voted against Jesus! They deserve to be discriminated against!

To those blacks and Latinos who say the struggle of gays for equal rights is nothing like their own, I say think again. You were discriminated against to the point of murder because of the color of your skin - which you were born with, had no control over. Gays are discriminated against to the point of murder because of their sexual orientation - which they are born with, have no control over. It's that simple and that basic.

The black and Latinos who voted for Prop 8 showed themselves to be as hypocritical as the rest of the so-called Christians, whose primary commandment is "Love thy neighbor as thyself." That plainly means, "Grant your fellow humans the same rights you want granted to yourself." That commandment is the one you have violated by this vote. Do you imagine Jesus would condone this violation of his primary commandment, the foundation of true Christianity?

Look at yourselves in the mirror, for there you will see what Jesus would call a hypocrite.

[hue chue]

When did it become an unalienable right to be married? Can a single person who wants to get married but can't get dates demand that the courts force someone to marry that person to avoid violating the right to be married? What about incestuous fathers? Beastial people marrying pets? Society must decide what the limits are. Participating in this process does not make you a bigot. I contributed to, campaigned for, and voted for Prop 8 and I AM PROUD OF IT!!!

[Jen]

I am not now, nor will I ever, equate the civil rights movement of African Americans in this country to the gay and lesbian civil rights movement. It would be ludicrous to do so. We’ve never been enslaved. We’ve never been considered “property.” We’ve never been denied the vote or forced to pay a “poll tax.” We’ve never been told that we need to sit at the back of the bus, that we need to drink from a separate water fountain, attend a different school, or live in a different neighborhood. We’ve never been held back en masse in a classist society because of who we are.

But I will venture out on a limb to say this: the only reason these things did not happen to us is because we can – and have, for centuries – hide who we are. If all gays and lesbians were, say, born with pink triangle birthmarks on our foreheads, or with various shades of blue skin tone, how confident would any American be in saying that the same thing would not have happened to us?

When we stopped hiding who we are in the last century, we became the object of the very same prejudice and discrimination that afflicts any other minority in this country. We were being beaten and killed. We were being discriminated against in our workplaces and our residences. And of course, we are discriminated against because we cannot enter into legal relationships with the people we love.

Ten years ago, a black man in Texas was murdered by being dragged from a truck simply because he was black. Ten years ago, a boy in Wyoming was pistol-whipped and tied to a rural, remote fencepost, left to die, simply because he was gay.

Is there a difference?

I can no more be responsible for my biology than can someone with a different skin color than my own. I am no more responsible for my white skin, my green eyes, or my female gender than I can for my body’s biology to be attracted to women.

And for those heterosexuals who would say to me, “yes, but you can choose to be heterosexual,” I will say just this: just because I am physically capable of having sex with a man does not mean that my body and my brain chemistry are not biologically wired up to be attracted to women. I put to you this challenge: can you, as a heterosexual person, wake up one morning and “choose” to be homosexual? Does even the concept of that feel just as natural and “right” to you as being heterosexual?

If the very idea of that challenge causes within you great discomfort, then you now know what it feels like for a homosexual when someone tells her that she can just “choose” to be straight.

And so, because my biology is different than the majority of the population in California, Arizona and Florida, I can never marry the person I am in love with. And because my biological difference isn’t a matter of my skin color, it isn’t discrimination, it’s an abomination.

Sigh. Bittersweet, indeed.

[KARA]

The outrage from this prop is unbelievable.
and the fact that the African Americans voted againts it is PURE HYPOCRISY!
LETS MAKE MARRIAGE ILLEGAL, AND HOW ABOUT HOW MANY OF THEM HAVE MANY CHILDREN FROM DIFFERENT DAD'S..... HOW'S THAT FOR RESTORING MARRIAGE?
YOU HYPOCRITES? IS IT BECAUSE YOU GUYS DONT VALLUE WHAT YOUR ANCESTORS WENT THRU THAT YOU HAVE TO NOW DISCRIMINATE?
OBABMA IS PRESIDENT BECAUSE HE WAS RAISED BY WHITE PEOPLE IN A GOOD NEIGHBOURHOOD. ITS SIMPLE SOCIALISM

[N/A]

DON'T argue till you know the facts.
BELIEVING what you want is NOT DISCRIMINATION.
HOMOSEXUALITY is a CHOICE, NOT A RIGHT! (has ALWAYS been that way...it is in NO way, shape, or form, the same as civil rights....please learn the definition of things before you argue in ignorance.

Don't fight in the name of tolerance, if you were for taking TOLERANCEaway. If NO on Prop 8 had passed, you'd be taking away the right to believe what you want (keep in mind....PERSONAL BELIEF is a RIGHT....)

DON'T let the government define morality and truth and fact.....even if you're not religious, the DEFINITION of marriage is still between a man and a woman...has always been...should always be....if that were not the case, you may or may not even be here....homosexuals canNOT reproduce.

So, before you argue and complain....really look at the issue:
YES on 8 = sanctity of marriage is protected (and to those who say then try and outlaw divorce....that also is a CHOICE....so it can't be made law) and homosexuals STILL have the rights to be joined and live happily together (no matter what anyone believes)
NO on 8 = gay marriage (the fact that you even have to put "gay" before the word "marriage" shows that you're altering an original idea), and those that don't believe in it are now being TOLD what is morally acceptable by their government....that is 100% straight out INTOLERANT.....

Look at it from BOTH sides before you argue.

BTW, Marriage is NOT ONLY about love and commitment...it is in the relationship b/n a man and a woman.

Don't call out YES supporters as bigots and haters....when you're the ones hating on US. YES supporters do NOT hate homosexuals.

Get it straight and don't contradict yourself. End of story. Think logically and be accepting and loving, but DO NOT EVER outlaw morality or freedom to believe.

[biscuits]

unless you believe that being gay is a choice and use the bible to decide the law, proposition 8 has absolutely no basis for argument.

I would LOVE if someone could come on here and actually provide an intelligent discussion about why gay marriage is wrong, without bringing in these 2 things.

(also, avoid the slippery-slope angle if you can, that was looked down upon in my 7th grade debate class.)

To me, its seems as simple as looking at societies where gay marriage is legal.. has god smote them down? Are 3 year old children watching gay porn? have straight couples divorce rates gone [even] higher? srsly folks. it's YOU people that need to grow up.

[Andrew]

If 2 people of the same sex want to get married WHO CARES!! I don't see why it's anyone else's business. It would be like the majority declaring that Catholics can't go to church on Sunday's. Is that for me to decide: NO of course not. And neither is the decision to allow gay marriage. Actually,Prop 8 wasn't about allowing gay marriage, it was about Taking Away the ability to marry after the Supreme Court said it was OK. Despicable!!
It's so hypocritical to quote the Bible in this issue. The Bible states that man should not covet another man's wife and warns against money lending and usury.
"The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender" Why aren't people putting forward Propositions about Check Cashing places and imposing their Biblical views on adultery?? Because it's not really about the Bible, it's about Bigotry. And whatever happened to separation of Church and State??
In response to the African American vote, it does seem a little hypocritical when 70% of black kids are illegitimate. So much for the sanctity of marriage!!
An interesting article: http://www.city-journal.org/html/16_4_hispanic_family_values.html

[Joey]

A vote against prop 8 is not a vote against discrimination. It is just a vote to redefine who it is okay to discriminate against. No matter what marriage laws would still discriminate against siblings who were born with the inclination to marry each other. No matter what it would still be okay to discriminate against women born with the inclination to love and marry more than one man.

The truth is, our society has always found it appropriate to discriminate against people based on sexual inclinations because laws governing sexual inclinations are laws based on the prevailing moral standards of the day. People who vote against prop 8 are just trying to impose their morals on the majority of society.

[Michael]

The person above who said that no one from the No campaign knocked on his door got it right.

The Yes campaign was better organized, better funded, better motivated and better manned. The lesson for the gay community is that if you want to win you have to do the hard slog of door knocking, protesting, phoning, manning voting places and convincing the voters of the fairness and merits of your case. I don't want to criticize the efforts of the few organizers of the No campaign but the opposition was just better prepared.

The other point I'd make it is that it is okay to have the endorsements of fine people like Diane Feinstein but where were the prominent gay community members, some of whom are married - Rosie, Ellen, Elton where were you....come on down!

Bottom line - this time the Yes campaign wanted to win more.

[Bethany]

Well I don't know about Gays being on the frontline with the civil rights movement. However, I do know that these statistics seem a little skewed. My sense is that most African Americans didn't vote either way because gay marriage isn't a topic most of us feel extremely strong about either way. I opposed it simply because I disagree with a constitutional amendment that takes away the rights of a minority group, any minority group. Also, I don't think that enough money was put into the No on 8 PR machine. Why didn't Ellen come out and say anything? Where was Rosie O'Donnell? Why weren't there more leaders of the gay community on my television talking about how unfair the proposition was? I don't think it's black folks you all have to blame I think it's the leadership in the gay community.

[jf]

god doesn't exist, get over it.

[Concerned mom]

Stop picking on African Americans who don't want their children to be indoctrinated into the state mind control delivered by the CTA. It was no surprise to me that the CTA donated $1 million dollars to defeat prop 8. I know first hand that liberal educators are ready to force feed the gay agenda to young children.

Our school is on the peninsula in the San Francisco bay area. A few years ago, my fifth grade son was forced to watch a movie about gay marriage in order to take his malleable mind and conform it to the state's agenda. The movie was just the beginning of a long program set to run each week so children would accept gay marriage and lifestyle as normal. I didn't hear about this movie viewing until a week later when my son mentioned it to me in passing. He told me he had fallen asleep during the movie and a teacher quickly came by and woke him up. She told him to pay attention to the movie and learn. When parents found out the movie had been shown to their children without their consent or knowledge, the principal was overwhelmed by calls and emails from irate parents. The principal had to curtail the program due to the outcry and promised he would offer a preview of it to parents the following year. But because there was no law at the time enforcing this type of program, the staff was not willing to allow it to be previewed and gave up on the idea for the following year.

Communists used these educational tactics very well. They feared the "harmful influence" of the family so to combat and rescue the child from traditional family values, they created a state run propaganda-filled education system to create good little Communists. The primary mission of the Soviet school was to remove children from the 'petty-bourgeois' family, where private family values and traditions undermined the cultivation of social instinct, and to inculcate in them the public values of the a Communist society.

[Orin Ryssman]

Lemeritus writes,

@ Orin Ryssman

The collective wisdom of the voters once counted slaves as only 3/4 of a person and accepted "separate but equal" instead of equality. Think for a moment before invoking the law to justify discrimination.
***************************************************

It would be good if posters, such as Lemeritus, first read the Constitution of the United States before attempting to opine about the law and discrimination. There is no 3/4 clause in the Constitution; there is however a 3/5th's Clause and it is found in Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the United States Constitution. I suggest you look it up.

Also check out this brief explanation of the 3/5th's Clause,
http://teachers.usd497.org/kgrinnel/apu2c5threefifthsgraphs.htm

[Second Class Citizen]

Interesting that education played a factor as well. Those who had less of it were more likely to vote in favor of Prop 8.

I'm not sure people actually understood that they were voting to amend the state constitution.

Yesterday I had the right to marry my partner of eight years and today I don't. Civil unions are a step. But they do not include all of the rights and priviledges of marriage.

Today I am a second class citizen.

Tomorrow is another day and I will pull myself up by my bootstraps and continue to fight for all people to have equal rights and equal protection under the law. This time, with gloves off.

DJB
Los Angeles, California

[Just how homophobic was Jesus?]

I think a measure should be considered to ban Christian marriage. Christians are overpopulating the world, and they keep confusing the Bible and the Constitution. They are ignorant, they are always full of hatred, and they don't resemble in the slightest tiniest little bit the man they are supposed to be followers of.

[Anonymous]

The posts from the liberal left and religious right are equally nauseating. Both are pushing their personal agendas down our throats.

For the gay agenda promoters, isn't the Domestic Partnership Act good enough for you?

Some of you need to get over yourselves. Some still believe in the traditional definition of marriage; that it's between a man and a woman. The belief is not based in religion - it's a personal belief. That does not make those individuals wrong, ignorant, hateful, or bigoted. They just don't believe in your cause.

[Janice]

Any argument that says black civil rights and gay civil rights are different is simply an argument of an ignorant and unenlightened person. Isn't it ironic that MSBNC.com shows Barack and Michelle Obama hugging each other (a happily married bi-racial couple that wasn't always allowed to get married in certain jurisdictions)? Wow, what an intelligent electorate he has! Ignorance indeed.

[jeff]

Concerned Mom in SF:
Your ignorance is unenlightening.

[CraigM]

From an Australian perspective, this is a very sad and shameful day for California and takes the gloss off the victory of Barack Obama.

[Outraged]

Don't like gay marriages? Don't have one! But apparently that's not enough for some people. They have to go and impose their power over other people. If that's not bullying I don't know what is.

[imladris]

""When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall - think of it, always." - Mahatma Gandhi

Oh so very true...

This setback shall pass.

[Nicole]

As for the comparison....gay ppl were never SLAVES...simple as that. End of the argument. If you knew your history you wouldn't be as so ignorant to try and compare the two.

[Najee]

last thought.... forget the sanctity of marraige... lets protect the sanctity of separation of church and state. point blank period

[LM]

Ignorant bigotry is everywhere, but the irony of this one is amazing. And the media denial so they can congratulate themselves on the Obama win while ignoring what's happening around the country is amazing. Celebrate, but don't ignore what even some of Obama's own supporters are doing right now to oppress others.

[Bo]

As an Australian, I throught California had taken a giant leap in the right direction and provided a new benchmark for equality that the rest of the word could aspire to. Such a shame that prejudice, narrow minded bigots who have no understanding of what it actually means to be homosexual, yet again step in to increase divisions in the community, and to take us roaring back to the 1950's. Ironic days indeed.

[J. Scott Coatsworth]

So the gay community comes out overwhelmingly to support the African American candidate for president financially, with our votes, and with our time, and to thank us the AA community comes out to deny us the right to marry. Is that about right?

[Roger]

Although it is disappointing that African-Americans supported this proposition in high numbers it would be smarter to go after the groups who funded this. The Mormons have a long history of racial intolerance and dubious marriage practices. Don't forget it was a Mormon that strung up Matthew Shepherd on a fence post in Wyoming. If they are going to attack us it is time to expose their long history of racism and pologamy. I say put together a propistion to condemn the history and practices of their church. Expose their church for the bigotry it stands for.

[T.H.]

As a black gay man, I'm really quite appalled at all the racism that's on this board. I think it further proves why Prop 8 passed. People against it aren't willing to educate themselves on issues of race and the history of discrimination and ignored those communities. And then to call bigotry on African Americans is in of itself bigoted and racist. Listen, racism and homophobia are both completely different and while it is discrimination on both counts, you CANNOT say that a black person's pain is the same as a gay person's. Last I checked, I can hide my sexuality. I'm judged first as a black man, not as a gay one.

And furthermore, maybe the gay community should look inside and realize how much racism there is inside the gay community. Work on that and get your fellow gays to stop saying "sorry, I'm not into black guys" or "I'm only into latin and white" or whatever it may be.

[sameulberg]

Incredible discussion taking place here. However, where is this supposed "deal" whereby the liberals with white guilt vote for Obama in exchange for the African-American vote to shoot down prop 8. Anybody who is over 25 years of age living in America should know social conservatism (read: religion) runs deep in the African-American, Latino & some Asian communities. These groups are most likely to stick to the traditional ways of life as directed by their faith. This country was founded on a freedom to exercise such faith. Why all the hostility towards African-Americans who are finally having the opportunity to have substance in their vote. After 43 presidents who have all been white males, they now get a chance to vote for somebody that has similar roots.

BTW, who are these people that constantly compare the gay movement to the civil rights movement of the 60's? Where are the gay only drinking fountains? Where are the gay only lunch counters? How many times were you pulled over by the fuzz for being gay? MLK had to live under his skin all day, every day. He couldn't blend into the general populous like Ellen (pre-fame) or Rosie (pre-fame). There is widespread acceptance of GLB in America like never before. I feel, for all the money the No on 8 movement took in, they should have done a better job picking up the additional 500,000 votes in California. Their ads were all the same: "if you vote YES on 8, you are a bigot!" Talk about undermining your own cause. It also didn't help Gavin Newsome to provide fodder for the YES on 8 drive.

[Carolyn]

The Judeo-Christian Bible and its various interpretations are not the State or Federal Constitution and cannot be used as a law book for an entire nation of people who represent a multitude of religions, including atheism.

It is only a matter of time before LGBT scapegoating will be viewed as reprehensible. Let us remember that young people voted against Prop. 8 by a wide margin. In the meantime, my wife and son and I will suffer from the prejudice that is legitimized by the passage of this proposition.

Equality for all.

[Adam]

@Jay

It seems my previous comment went over your head so let me be more clear. Gay people choose to be gay just as much as you choose your skin to be black. I don't need to be educated on the history of blacks in the country -- it's terrible and I'm well aware of it. I am tolerant of your views but I am not tolerant of removing rights from others. Just because you do not believe in gay marriage does not mean you need to force those beliefs upon others. You can live your life by your views and what makes you happy. Why can't others?

[D.D.]

Ok. I'm religious and I agree that gays are as equal as everyone else. Also I believe that marriage is between the opposite sex, But was there any need to even make more problems in this area by having people vote on it? And would it have been tought in schools later on in the furture? Cause when i have my child i dont want them to learn about marriage while at school, I want to teach them myself. So i decided to leave that section blank because I was confused. What should I have done?

[Peter]

What it is with bigots and spelling?

Oh, right. Ignorance. Of course.

Does anyone else find it revoltingly ironic that the Latter day church of polygamous marriage was one of the driving forces behind Prop (h)8?

Since when did we let Utah decide what's written into our constitution?

As far as African Americans supporting gay bigotry - why is anyone surprised? Rampant homophobia in the AA community isn't exactly a secret, is it.

[Lemeritus]

@ Orin Ryssman

My deepest apologies, Mr. Ryssman. You are, of course, exactly right... discrimination loses its sting when "all other persons" are counted as 3/5s rather than 3/4s. I fear, however, that -- in your passion for chapter and verse-- you may have misunderstood my point: collective wisdom does not always make good law.

[ANON]

I'm an African-American who lives in South Central LA. Here's what happened. In black neighborhoods, there are 3-5 churches on every block of every street (along with 3-5 liquor stores)

The point? Black people go to church! And EVERY black church I know of mobilized, organized and convinced members to vote for Prop 8. There were petitions floating around, phone calls, you name it.

There was already a pretty significant layer of homophobia among blacks. (Every black celebrity who makes it gets hit with the inevitable "gay rumor")

But once you add RELIGION to the mix, that TRUMPS DISCRIMINATION in the black community. (Although it would be interesting to see if they would feel similarly about an amendment to end fornication...)

Also, every black person I talked to thought churches would lose their TAX EXEMPT STATUS if they refused to marry a same sex couple (which is untrue)

Third, a lot of African Americans were concerned about CHILDREN learning about same sex marriage and "thinking that's OK".

There you have it....so if you want to pass legislation that is pro same-sex marriage, you're going to have to do it on a day when black voter turnout is NOT going to be at historical levels.

I voted No on Prop 8. I believe in the separation of church and state.

[Ellen]

Well, if you want to keep quoting the bible, let's not forget that the bible endorses slavery and tells slaves to obey their masters. Yet, African-Americans have a problem with that. You've taken away our rights and have denied us the opportunity to rights in the future. You've got yours and now you have imposed your beliefs onto us. That's just wrong. Who is anyone to tell another how they should live their life? If that's what makes you good Christians, how sad for you

PS - If you think violence only happens to African-Americans, read what happened to Brandon Teena and Matthew Shepard as examples as to what kind of violence gays and lesbians endure.

[Reed]

1. No civil rights movements have ever been the same. But the point is that ALL civil rights movements have been unpopular. That is why they have never been left to the voters.

2. "Traditional" marriage, to those of you who want to "protect" it, was almost always strictly "same-race" for thousands of years, until only the last few decades. To those African-American and Latino voters who voted for this discriminatory amendment: imagine if it had banned marriages between a "negro and white" instead of "same-sex couples". A hundred years ago, an amendment could have had the same arguments (children learning it in schools, and voters supporting it) that prop 8 has today. Thank God that never happened.

3. Please, someone logically explain how their own opposite-sex marriage has been "restored" today. NOTHING was "imposed" on you, your children, or your church by other people getting married.

4. Why the hell were people cheering exuberantly at the pro-8 rally, as was shown on the Times website earlier? How can a ballot that has nothing to do with them, and that is a strong slap in the face to tens of thousands of people, be exciting? They should claim victory and move on, not rejoice at destroying the rights of a minority.

5. The people of California have not "spoken". And we will not "move on", as the anti-equality people insist we do. Half of voters (and more than half the state, if polls are to be believed) realized what an un-American proposal Prop 8 was. That old, bigoted, homophobic people in Orange County, San Diego, Nor-Cal, and East California can make decisions about basic human rights for the rest of us is utterly disgusting.

6. If anyone thinks that civil unions are "equal", then please, lets actually make them equal, and force straight couples to accept them instead of marriage too.

7. Finally, changes to the constitution, at any level, should never simply be left to petition. This sets a dangerous precedent that racial, sexual, economic, or political majorities will always be able to simply "skip" the judicial review system (which, by the way, was the mechanism that gave African-Americans rights and equality that were unpopular).

California is a progressive, tolerant, and forward-thinking state. Yesterday it took a terrible, probably permanent, slide into state-sponsored prejudice. For now, at least, the acceptance of LGBT people in America has hit a dead-end.

[Dan]

Hey LA Times, have you noticed that despite the fact the majority of voters approved Proposition 8, 97% of the comments on this post are anti-Proposition 8? Don't you think that says something about how the conservative readership has abandoned this liberal newspaper? Does that not indicate a complete lack of journalistic integrity on your part?

[jackie]

The way the article is written it's an invitation to attack black voters for their choices. Didn't the article also say that whites and Latinos voted 50% or more for Prop 8 as well? So basically most people were voting against it. Shame on the times for this biased article skewed so only a particular segment can be attacked by your posters.

[Ian losangeles]

There is not one single argument I have heard in support of prop 8 that doesnt scream of bigotry. You may be to stupid to understand that, or to depserate to convince yourselves that its Gods will. But the fact is yesterday, you stepped in and you stripped rights away from a group of people who have done NOTHING to you simply because tey are different from you. It is a GROSS perversion of Christianity and the teachings of Christ to claim you do this for religious reasons. Your "morals" have little to do with Christs teachings anymore, and your definition of marriage means even less. Just take a look at the "sacred" institution in your communities. Your divorce rates are ridiculous. Your teen pregnancy rate appalling. And yet you have the nerve to stand in judgement of others and deny them the basic right you have. How small and petty, and eventually, how futile. You wont win. You keep changing the rules everytime the law tells you you're wrong. But we keep winning. And we arent going anywhere. Maybe if you were all blessed with one gay child you would think differently. Yes, I think I'll start praying for that now.
California should have known better.

[jf]

As wrong as this is, and even though civil rights should never be put up to a popluar vote, I have to concur with others who have said our GAY LEADERSHIP FAILED us ... utterly ... it was a crappy campaign - even though it shouldn't have been a campaign, it was - and it was crappy. We should have had nice bright yellow or orange signs to counter the Yes signs, and a better organized base, and many, many more OUTspoken supporters on our ads - and foot soldiers knocking on doors or standing on street corners - and to have understood whose votes we were trying to secure and how to do that, which we did not. Still, it is completely and utterly correct to file suit against this proposition on the merit that it violates equal protection under our state constitution.

[Lemeritus]

@ Orin Ryssman

My sincere apologies, Mr. Ryssman. I'm certain you're exactly right -- the sting of discrimination is significantly less when "all other persons" are counted as 3/5s rather than 3/4s. I fear, however, in your passion for chapter and verse, you've misunderstood my point: Collective wisdom does not always make good law.

[Jerry]

As a black man( heterosexual) I want to apologize for our ignorance and lack of sensitivity to the gay community. I have always wondered as a people why we are always last to GET IT. We were slow to support Obama he only received 35% support of the black community prior to the Iowa caucus. Hatred is hatred and we should be the last to support any issue that limits the rights of any individual. This is not a religious position look at how many in the black community voted no on prop 4. so don't give me the religious angle when justifying this position. Lets wake up people we of all should understand this struggle.

[Doug]

It is beyond me why so many African-Americans are so bound up in their own grievances that they cannot see the experiences of others for what they are. Pain is pain. Oppression is oppression.

Speaking as a gay white man who grew up in an upper-middle class family with all of the advantages that should confer, as a teenager growing up, I think I can safely say that I was beaten senseless for being a "f_g" many more times than all but the most unlucky African American was for being black. As some of those posting on this site have correctly observed, later I could "hide" by making my mannerisms more masculine and did. But it made it no less painful, and vastly more isolating because survival, both personally and professionally required me to hide, even from myself. And living in New York State, it was only in 2003 at the age of 49 that my rights to housing and employment were protected, almost 40 years after the great civil rights legislation that rightly ended "Jim Crow." In 30 states today, there are no such protections for gay Americans of the sort that African Americans can assert as a matter of routine.

And for those African Americans who insist that homosexuality is a choice unlike the color of their skin, have you ever asked a gay person about that? Why in heaven's name would anyone "choose" to be a social outcast and despised as was certainly the case in my childhood and is still true today? And why ignore science which has found a number of correlations between sexuality and brain structure?

Most of all, why insist that your own experience is uniquely awful? How different is the life of the Matthew Shepard that ended in 1998 tied to a barbed wire fence in Wyoming, than the life of Michael Donald who in Alabama in 1981 was the last known person to be lynched? Each is equally tragic and unjust, not withstanding that one was gay and the other was African-American, and both deaths were terribly wrong.

As I have asked of my gay friends who belittle people of color, I now ask of the 70 percent of African-American Californians who voted in favor of Proposition 8, "HAVE YOU LEARNED NOTHING FROM YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE?"

I have always loved California, and very nearly made it my home, but I cannot reconcile this vote with the California I love.

[Bruingrl68]

1. This is inflammatory journalism. The very short article references SEVERAL voting groups but only puts african americans in the title.

2. Since when are exit polls reliable?

3. I don't think enough people knew the difference between a civil union/domestic partnership and being able to be "married." A lot of people think that civil unions are good enough. Maybe next time it should be explained better.

5. Why does it seem like people are insinuating that gay and or white ppl did black people some sort of favor by voting for Obama and that that favor was not returned...?

4. I personally think that more minorities were put off by the way No on 8 tried to link the minority struggle with the gay struggle as if they were the same. Example: speaking of marriage...my best friend got married this summer and it was a full out traditional Nigerian wedding which was drastically different than anything I'd ever seen. I left there strangely sad because I wish I had a CULTURE and a GENEALOGY and ROOTS that I could explore and develop and honor. But I don't. I'm a descendant of slaves...thats all I know. Somehow, thats inherently different than not being able to say "I do." One struggle involves the complete obliteration of the roots and ties and culture of a whole race of ppl. One involves being able to join in a domestic partnership but not being able to say that so and so is my husband or wife as opposed to my "partner."

Its so different its not even in the same hemisphere.

But I guess thats just me.

[jake]

I could not agree more with all the previous comments, expecially the first one, I find this incredibly shocking that blacks would discriminate against gays, yet when we placed our votes for Obama -- we did not discriminate. In Obama's acceptance speech -- he mentioned gay and straight -- as part of america. I hope that they realize that their fight against discrimination should start with them as well. No one should discriminate and I had long believed that of all minority groups -- it would be the blacks that would fully understand this issue. Proposition 8 was nothing more than discrimination, It does not hurt people, it gives them equal rights -- it would almost be like saying that no blacks can marry each other. You put any minority group in place of gays in that proposition and you will see how wrong the passage really is.

[Jody]

First of all, how dare anyone have the audacity to compare gay rights to to any type of civil injustices that African-Americans have endured. You have to be kidding me. Unlike gays, African-Americans had ABSOLUTELY no choice in what was thrown their way and could only adapt to the new environment that they were forced to live in. Over a time, a long time, we have learned to overcome and manage in this society that has done nothing but create obstacle after obstacle to prevent our progress.

Now, as far as the LGBT community, you have more issue than a little bit that you all have brought upon yourselves. You were born in the wrong bodies, some look like men, but really are women, some look like women, but really are men , some date both genders, some are dishonest about their own genders and lie to the people that they date, some expect children to say they have two mommies or call one of the mommies daddy, some expect the children to say they have two daddies or call one of the daddies mommy, some women call themselves men and boys, while you have some men calling themselves girls and women. And now now you want the rest of the world to accept that your community carries the label of husband and wife. You all do not understand yourselves, yet you want those who are outside of your world to understand you and accept you? Get a grip. You all live live a confusing life, that is why you flock to one another and only understand one another.

Further more, you all are so selfish that you are not thinking about the long term effects that this will have on or children in the future. No this may not make our children automatically gay, however, it does give them the notion that you can be with who ever or what ever you want to be with and if you want to look or change to the opposite gender, you can. There are many young confused children that are not really gay, but they have hooked up with the wrong crowd and they are just completely confused now. These confused children are in schools with our children. This is not about a lifestyle. This is not even about a choice. This is pretty much about curiosity and rebellion. This is a breakdown.

Do not be mad at the African American community because we hold ourselves to a higher moral value and cling to our religion. It is our religion that has gotten us where we are to this day. WE WILL NOT FORGET! And for those who want to say that we are hypocrites, please know that there is a difference in committing a sin and wallowing in a sin. We all fall short. However, when you say I am sorry and make it a point to do better, you are recognized for your good works. In the case of living a gay lifestyle, which is clearly noted as unacceptable (and yes the Bible tells you to judge a tree by the fruit it produces; for those who have want to believe that judging is wrong), you are clearly wallowing and justifying your sin. That is WRONG! It has been wrong and it will remain wrong. Just because you all can not curb the desires of your emotions and inner beings does not make it right.

No one is discriminating. You all will never even begin to really know what that word means.

[David Blackburn]

It's ironic that the Obama campaign probably contributed to high voter turnout and the passage of Proposition 8! I wonder how Hispanics and Blacks would feel if there were an initiative removing their right to vote!

[Obama won]

This comes as no surprise. Blacks have a serious homophobia in their community, and Latinos are highly religious. I'm Black and I have 2 friends who voted for Obama and yes on 8, even after Obama said prop 8 was wrong. I'm straight but I'm not prejudice. So me being a liberal I voted no. Although homosexuals are not a race like Blacks and Latinos they are still human beings. You got to live and let live people. Siding with conservatives is not right, because they have never been a friend to minorities.

[aedgarw]

Before we start casting blame for the passing of this awful proposition, let's think for a moment and figure out in whose best interest is it to pit African-American and Latinos against the Gay community? Where is the data to back up the assertion that Blacks and Latinos were for Prop 8? We must remember that there are forces out there that want us divided and fighting amongst ourselves. We must not let them hooodwink us. We must form coalitions and defeat any move to take away or deny each of us out human dignity. Everyone has the right to love and marry who they desire. None of us should have the power to deny a couple the rights and privileges that we all share.

[southgatevoter]

Yeah yeah yeah. You gay rights activists don't put the blame on us minorities. Gay marriage is not equivalent to interracial marriage. Gay lifestyle is a choice. Blacks know that fundamentally racism is not a principle that is inherently acceptable, but when gays and lesbians want to change the definition of something so fundamental such as marriage then something is wrong.

[T]

I think that a good % of people misunderstood what a "yes" vote would mean. I have talked to countless people (most of which are Black) that thought that their "yes" vote meant they were supporting gay marriage not saying "no" to it. It was confusing to some to say the least.

[E]

Filter the election results by education, and you will see a correlation between those areas with with a high proportion of bachelors degrees and a No on 8 vote, and those areas with a low proportion of bachelors degrees and a yes on 8 vote. This discussion board seems to bear this out.

You don't have to be able to "see" a feature in order for it to be a feature accorded equal rights. Standing in line are two African American men, and two Caucasian men. Which one is mentally handicapped? If you need to be able to "see" the difference, then you must be arguing for the dissolution of rights for the mentally disabled as well.

If reproduction is the heart of marriage, then you must be against heterosexual marriages involving sterile people.

Obviously, the gay struggle in America has been nothing like what African Americans have faced. In fact, not much has. But if something needs to be qualitatively and quantitatively equal to the African American experience in order to be justifiably accorded rights against discrimination, well, then almost nothing else can be protected. I can see that the comparison is insulting. But that does not deny the fact that there can be discrimination to a lesser degree. It's not all or nothing.

7/10 African Americans voting yes on 8 is disturbing. But keep in mind this does mean that thousands of African Americans also voted no on 8. The yes on 8 campaign was smart. Black people are not the reason this was passed. This is not a reason to stop fighting for their causes.

There is a silver lining here: not too long ago this passed with 60% of the vote. Now lets just hope the ACLU can get this thrown out in court.

[Check out the New Testament]

Could someone quote some scripture in the New Testament that gives a Christian argument against homosexuality? As a straight Christian, it's always been my understanding that Christ represents a new Covenant, that God is Love, that His love is to be shared among all his creation and that we need to spend more time treating others as ourselves than following ancient dietary and social laws. If you eat pork and shellfish (which Leviticus also prohibits), then why do you insist on throwing out the Gospel when so proudly boasting you're a Christian?

God created all of us, straight and gay, and His Son told us that we'll be judged by how we treat the least among us. Don't put your homophobia and hatred on Jesus - you certainly can't back it with anything He said.

[Dan]

This is a sensitive topic, but to point fingers at people is not going to help. There are plenty of places in the world who have a skew view on marriage, America must hold strong to the roots on which it was founded on, its Christian principles. Those roots allowed people for freedom of speech, freedom of religious practices as well as many other freedoms the rest of the world does not have the luxury to enjoy. People need to control themselves and be grateful for the freedoms we have and hold strong to the morals and values this country was and is founded on. Love one another, and trust in the God that gave us freedom.

[Then there was Me]

Let's not ignore the elephant in the room. Obama supporters went into the voting booth armed with Obama's opposition to same-sex marriage and voted Yes on Prop. 8.

I voted third party for the first time -- both candidates supported same-sex marriage. Obama chose to ignore our plight for more votes.