70% of African Americans backed Prop. 8, exit poll finds

A lot of Obama/Yes-on-8 voters? The Associated Press exit polls show that African Americans and Latinos backed Proposition 8 in good numbers. Details here from AP:

California's black and Latino voters, who turned out in droves for Barack Obama, also provided key support in favor of the state's same-sex marriage ban. Seven in 10 black voters backed a successful ballot measure to overturn the California Supreme Court's May decision allowing same-sex marriage, according to exit polls for The Associated Press.

More than half of Latino voters supported Proposition 8, while whites were split. Religious groups led the tightly organized campaign for the measure, and religious voters were decisive in getting it passed. Of the seven in 10 voters who described themselves as Christian, two-thirds backed the initiative. Married voters and voters with children strongly supported Proposition 8. Unmarried voters were heavily opposed.

-- Shelby Grad

Photo: Los Angeles Times

Comments

[Diane]

"What it is with bigots and spelling?

Oh, right. Ignorance. Of course."

What is it with gays and nasty?

Oh, right. Arrogance. Of course.

My LORD you people (yes I said you people) are full of yourselves. You refuse to listen to a reasoned argument and indulge in childish namecalling (I'm pretty sick of hearing about how everyone who disagrees with YOU is a bigot).

[jimmy]

Two quiet ways to protest. If you don't like what blacks, mormans and Catholics have done together to destroy families in this state - protest with your checkbooks. If you discover, whenever you go into a small business, that it is black, mormon or Catholic owned, walk OUT and go to a competitor. You don't have to make a fuss. Mostly it was their MONEY they used to hurt you - don't patronize their businesses OR donate to any charities that support them. Let the blacks, mormons, catholics and KKK support each other's businesses without your interference.
...Yesterday, I think I might have actually yelled at someone who made a comment like I just did. But after what I just saw happen in California, my mind has been changed. Fighting hate with violence won't accomplish anything useful, but I can see now - sometimes you just HAVE to meet bigotry with SOME kind of challenge. Tolerance might be asking too much. We've tolerated people who attack us, and we've only gotten hurt. BOYCOTT their businesses. Tell your "friends" that supported 8 that you don't need their kind in your life anymore. The "christian" group - american "family" association - is ALWAYS using boycotts against companies that support anything remotely gay... Use their tactic. But don't TELL them what you're doing. Or the AFA will just send more business their way. Just leave, and tell your friends to avoid those businesses and why. That's what I'm doing from here on out.

I'm REALLY glad Obama won the presidency. I hope that he can make some positive changes in our country, and I wish him and all the new leaders in Washinton the absolute best. It's a shame this black mark in California had to ruin what should have been a wonderful victory all around.

So I'm weird. I may never patronize another black business in California, but I still think Obama's the MAN!

[Yasmine]

D.D.:

I totally understand... what should you have done? Read this: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-ed-prop8-2-2008nov02,0,5926932.story

CALIFORNIA EDUCATION CODE REQUIRES PARENTAL CONSENT TO TEACH THE MATERIAL BEING TAUGHT IN SEX ED. Period.

So even though the prop had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with education, let's just say some teacher wanted to teach about gay marriage against the will of the parent. Could they if prop 8 had not passed? NO! The Cali Education Code requires issues regarding sex ed / marriage to be left to parents, and that's why permission is required before anything is taught.

Prop 8 supporters manipulated their audience based on LIES LIES LIES.

Lies lies lies lies lies.

...and P.S., I am a STRAIGHT HETEROSEXUAL ATTORNEY who studied law at a top school and knows how laws and codes work. I am so ashamed the same day discrimination was defeated in the race for presidency, it was blatantly exhibited in the passage of prop 8.

Ashamed and disgusted.

[Dr. Christopher Eaton]

I don't care what idiot Christians believe about me, gay marriage or anything else. In a pluralistic country, founded largely by philandering Unitarian Universalists like Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, not Christians, church and state MUST remain separate. What Christians believe about gay marriage and gay people is simply irrelevant. Who cares? They cannot use their idiotic belief system to deprive citizens of their basic human rights. And it is disgraceful and shameful that any Black person would have voted for Yes on H8. Barack said as much. This vote is just outrageously disgusting and vile. An ugly blemish on the face of CA.

[jimmy]

Ashamed Angeleno -
Of COURSE black people can choose not to be black. Haven't you seen any recent pictures of Michael Jackson?

[Strange de Mike]

If we really want to protect marriage, why don't we just BAN DIVORCE? Better yet, why don't we just BAN MARRIAGE FOR EVERYONE? It's antiquated. Aren't domestic partnerships the same thing? Why the redundancy? Straight people have made a mockery of their most "sacred" institution and have turned it into an absolute joke. In the television ad where the girl proclaimed that she was taught in school that "a prince could marry a prince," wasn't it peculiar that the father was conspicuously ABSENT? Was it because THE LITTLE GIRL DIDN'T HAVE A FATHER, maybe due to divorce? Or because she was being raised by a single mom? Perhaps her father was a self-hating, closeted homosexual and was out cruising for sex in a dark alley in WeHo after the weekly men's group meeting at his church. My point is, until all of us are intelligent enough to stop letting the church do our thinking for us and until we directly and honestly confront the homophobia and racism that resides within us, we're not going to get anywhere.

[A.D.]

Just a few points in an attempt to make everyone happy RE: Proposition H8...

1) Let us immediately outlaw divorce and adultery. I'm sure we can get all the major religious institutions, except the Mormons, on board with their staunch and unwavering support. (I don't foresee this being a problem seeing how it's a Commandment and all.)

2) Let's start nationwide support groups so we can all help each other to keep choosing to be straight. If being gay is a choice, it makes sense to realize that being heterosexuality must be too. (I wonder if those who espouse this view may be in fact closeted "choice-makers" because I know I don't spend anytime remembering to be straight.)

3) Just because the specific situations are not exactly the same, then the idea of inequality faced by women, blacks, or gays cannot be compared to each other. It a simple mathematical formula: "B-word" does not equal "N-word" does not equal "F-word". (Especially now, since racism and sexism no longer exist right?)

[Zai]

1. If homosexuality is a sin and should be illegal, then what about the 7 deadly sins? Pride? Greed? Lust? Gluttony? Should those *cardinal* sins be made illegal too?

2. I don't believe the oppression that blacks suffered should be compared to those of the gays. Yes gays have been discriminated but I must say that blacks have suffered much more. There is always a gradient of grays in everything.

3. I've been saying this for a while, but I think the best solution to all this is for the government to give EQUAL legal benefits to civil unions and marriages. That way, religion can keep their 'marriage' while gays can get the status they want. Everybody wins.

Besides, marriage should really be a religious institution rather than the state. Separation of church and state people!

[pgspat]

I was afraid prop 8 would pass. But I was shocked that such a huge majority of African Americans would vote for it on the same ballot they elected our first African American President. How do you think gay Americans felt watching all that hope and celebration in Chicago and around the country only to find out the same folks had put this discrimination into the state constitution. I think African Americans have a self centered view of civil rights. Yes gays were never slaves, but we were branded in the holacaust, we were diagnosed as mentally insane, our sexual activity has been a felony, and while one of yours is the new leader of our country.... we can't even get married. That is not change we can believe in..... that is discrimination.

[KT]

For everyone who cites the Bible to explain their support for Prop 8:

C.S. Lewis got it right--the Devil knows the Bible too.

[xxxray]

All you Yes on 8 voters: May your gay children forgive you for making sure they cannot have the same equal rights you enjoy. Trust me, some of you will have gay children...

[Dr. Christopher Eaton]

T.H., don't believe for a second that you can speak about my experience, my world, the persecution and ostracism that I've faced my whole life because I'm gay. I won't presume to know what your experience is, but don't believe for a second that you know how difficult life can be as a gay boy, girl, man or woman in this society until you have walked a mile in my shoes. Your argument, like all bigoted arguments, doesn't hold water.

[Jason]

First, I would like to thank the Times for having the courage to draw attention to this story. DO NOT DROP IT. I have had enough of the passionate ignorance and hypocrisy of these simple people.

To any other furious gays reading this: you are deluding yourself if you think this anything OTHER than a religious issue. Your refusal to condemn the poison of the modern black church and its invidious effects on the ignorant laity a-wavin' and a-singin' deys songs of hating gay people in the pews will allow them to do it forever. Grow up and tell these people you don't believe in their fairy tales instead of indulging them.

[GC]

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice, everywhere"

Martin Luther King

[KG]

As a black man in this country, I could care less if some hate me because of my color. I cannot be oppressed by anyone because my mind is free. I think folks would feel better about themselves if the stop worrying about how other feel about them.
I have no fear or hatred of homosexuals. In fact my Christian faith demands that I genuinely love everyone, including those who I disagree with. This isn’t just cheap talk, loving everyone is something I must practice daily. I do not have a problem with gay couples having the same legal rights and benefits as heterosexual couples. However, a “marriage” is between a man and a woman. Civil unions are available to those who are seeking a legal commitment.

[Lee]

I just want to remind everyone that people who voted yes on 8 were not voting to protect their rights, they were voting against someone else's rights. Call it rights or freedoms or just something you know you can do because you see it around you everyday. There is a fundamental truth to these expectations in America. Remember next time your personal rights get challenged be it privacy, speech or whatever you take for granted, just try and remember how you feel then and then maybe you can understand how we feel now. It hurts when I see my friends and family get married but I know that I cannot. It hurts bad.

[Lee]

On comment on discrimination: It sounds to me like no one remembers high school anymore. Just a reminder that if you are known to be gay in high school you are discriminated against by everyone. Be them black, white, latino and even by gender and family. I'm sure that most people posting a blog here tonight must remember the overriding ridicule heaped upon the "fag" in school. I'm not trying to make a judgement on who got it worse, just trying to jar some memories. From someone who's got it from all sides and survived.

[Brian]

To Yessers on 8: So you would rather nullify Captain Sulu's (George Takai's) committed marriage to protect the sanctity of Britney Spear's 56-hour just-for-fun marriage? Have you forgotten that there is supposed to be a separation between church and state? What makes your religious beliefs so important that they should be enforced? If the government is to extend benefits to marriage, they should be *blind* to religious views on marriage. Period. Don't like it? Go reread the First Amendment. What's next? You want to amend the constitution to disallow atheists from marrying? Repeat after me: My religious freedom is not violated by someone else not agreeing with me. Jake and Joe down the street from me getting married does nothing to harm me. Since when is it right to vote on anybody's rights? Shall we turn the clock back to 1960 and put civil rights up to a vote in the deep south? If I ever get married, all I care about is the state's recognition of my marriage. I don't need any church's blessing, whether I marry a woman or a man. And I don't want to be bound by any law put in place because somebody with any religious conviction feels compelled to force their views onto me. That is a violation of religious freedom. I just can't fathom how you could personally be affected like this by some random same-sex couple on the other side of town that you don't know. All I can see is that you just want marriage for star-bellied sneetches (Dr. Seuss reference). The way I see it, Proposition 8 is not rights for the religious, it's preferential legislation, and a violation of the rights of anybody who does not engage in certain religious beliefs.

[jerry seinfeld]

I've heard several people say something along the lines of, "I'm so glad and proud Barack Obama got voted in, but as a Californian I'm ashamed and disappointed at the discrimination against gays and lesbians."

Are you aware that Barack is against gay marriage?

ARE YOU?

[Thomas Kleingartner]

In a truly race-blind world, the news that 52% of African Americans backed Prop. 8 would have been understandable, but 70% sure feels like something between a kick in the stomach and a knife in the back. The depth and intensity of the hate and ignorance surging from the Prop. 8 camp is unfathomable, so the GLBT has a long and painful road ahead towards achieving equality and respect. At least we can learn from the experience of the black community and hope that some good soul will hold the door open for us in this life, even if we are damned to hell in the next...

[map]

Why not civil unions...it is the word 'marriage' that creates the backlash. If obtaining the legal rights for estates, healthcare, medical decision making etc is the goal.. why not get over the semantical challenge and go for civil unions. Using the word marriage is just a red flag.

I also agree with the writers that comparing same sex marriage issues with slavery and the suffering of Afro-americans over the centuries is inappropriate.

[ybin]

It just goes to show how religion is a mind-shrinking falsehood. Why have the blacks not been able to free themselves from the shackles of religion that their previous white masters imposed on them??

The world would be a much better place without this oppressive thing called religion. It is the source of injustice, hatred and war.

[Keith]

As my African-American, heterosexual, brothers and sisters walked into that polling booth and took the Bible with them, I so wished that they would have remembered that the Bible was used to justify our slavery, too. I guess memory is the first to go when you get your freedom, huh?

[superbu]

My hetereosexual neighbors, tell me a story: What is it like to have full civil rights? I've always wondered.

I think the reason people are especially upset with the black community here is because they should "know better." I'm from Seattle, and I well remember back in the '90s when we were trying to pass the very first state wide anti-discrimination law for gays. It only dealt with jobs and housing, not marriage. But the black community in Washington came out EN MASSE against it. Here are some of the things I recall being said on television by blacks:

"You're not even a minority group."
"You weren't kept as slaves."
"HOW DARE YOU compare your situation with ours?! I am offended!"
"I think you should just go back in the closet."

It is very prudent to criticize African-Americans in regarding Prop 8. Several black men I've dated have told me that prejudice against gays is chronic in the black community; worse than in white culture, they told me. And the article says 70% of blacks voted for the measure; but it simply says "over half" of Hispanics did so, giving the impression it's slightly more than half. So you can't blame the readers for getting that impression from the article.

That aside, it seems like many African-Americans try to one-up other minority groups. It's like they feel civil rights is "their territory" and they don't want others infringing. I've had Asian friends tell me they've noticed that, too.

I get the impression that being "the most oppressed" has become such a part of the African-American cultural identity that any threat to that (in the form of another group pointing out the fact that they still don't have the civil rights that blacks were awarded 40 years ago) is met with a snobbish, "You're not worthy."

[david]

This is extraordinarily hypocritical of the african american community. You would think that african american history would allow blacks to be more inward thinking about how majorities put their will upon an unwilling minority (jim crow laws against blacks). How inherently unjust that is. And how christianity has a full history of being a majority that does exactly the same thing.