70% of African Americans backed Prop. 8, exit poll finds

A lot of Obama/Yes-on-8 voters? The Associated Press exit polls show that African Americans and Latinos backed Proposition 8 in good numbers. Details here from AP:

California's black and Latino voters, who turned out in droves for Barack Obama, also provided key support in favor of the state's same-sex marriage ban. Seven in 10 black voters backed a successful ballot measure to overturn the California Supreme Court's May decision allowing same-sex marriage, according to exit polls for The Associated Press.

More than half of Latino voters supported Proposition 8, while whites were split. Religious groups led the tightly organized campaign for the measure, and religious voters were decisive in getting it passed. Of the seven in 10 voters who described themselves as Christian, two-thirds backed the initiative. Married voters and voters with children strongly supported Proposition 8. Unmarried voters were heavily opposed.

-- Shelby Grad

Photo: Los Angeles Times

Comments

[LJS]

Of all the communities in the US, one would think that African Americans would not want to discriminate against another community. How wrong is that assumption!, It seems suffering over two hundred years of oppression does not teach one tolerance and compassion. It is a bitter and sad day for California's gay and lesbian community. It is also hard to grasp that we voted in our first African American president while carving permanent, legislative discrimination and bigotry into our state constitution.

[David Theiss]

It's a shame groups that are all too familiar with discrimination and hatred would accord the same treatment to similarly "unpopular" minorities.

[Ken]

Maybe African-Americans cared more about their votes counting. They voted for Prop 22, and probably didn't like a court throwing out their votes.

[amp]

Terribly sad and hypocritical. Gay people have been forefront in the black civil rights movement since day one, we made your cause our cause and now this is how you repay us? I know I speak for many when I urge you to remember all who have fought so hard for you and still do in the realms of social Justice. I think we feel so stabbed in the back because we felt like you would understand.
Dr. King and Mrs. King were supporters of gay rights, because they understood what equality means.
This is just really, really cruel and narrow minded.

[Michelle]

LJS - I agree with you 100%! I have been saying the same thing about the irony of the Obama win mixed with the Prop 8 Yes. It's a shame that so many would want to take away the right to such a happy, joyous occasion as a marriage.

I married my girlfriend of 7 years - the love of my life and soulmate - in August and finally felt like my straight, married friends saw our relationship equal to theirs. Now who knows what will happen to that legal relationship. No matter what, our relationship is strong and we will always be married in our hearts and minds. They can't take that away (or the piece of paper that hangs on the wall).

[Blue]

African-Americans, as a group, have never accepted the claims of the gay rights movement that the gay rights struggle is equivalent to, or the heir to, the Black Civil Rights Movement. The histories of those movements is far too different. What I think this result shows is that many, many supporters of Prop. 8 voted in favor of that measure out of a desire to reaffirm a concept of marriage that has been a cornerstone of our society for eons, not because they were deliberately trying to strip others of "fundamental" rights or otherwise act in a hateful and bigoted fashion.

The California Supreme Court could have granted the request for a stay of its ruling in the In re Marriage Cases decision pending this election, but it chose not to. If you want to blame anyone for the chaos that passing Prop. 8 will now cause in society for those individuals who entered into same-sex marriage, blame the CA Supreme Court's irresponsible decision to greenlight gay marriage while the issue was still out before the electorate.

[Mark]

My friend put it very well...Prop8 deciding factor? Black voters who don't see a civil rights issue. Who knew oppression could be a minority hand-me-down?

[K.P.]

You all are forgetting that the AP listed facts about Latinos and Whites as well. Why is everyone pointing out that just blacks turned down this Prop? More than half of Latinos voted yes. Whites were split. Two-thirds of Christians backed the prop. Married voters and voters with children backed the prop. It's not just black people. C'mon-read the whole article again. Don't just pick out ONE fact and run with it. Run with all of the facts.

[Miriam]

Gay marriage is wrong. It's as simple as that.

[Stuart]

Looking a bit deeper into why the African American community voted for Prop 8...it's general, sure, but, the church is a very powerful force in that community, and I'm sure a lot of AA churches were for Prop 8.
I can guarantee that this community did not see Prop 8 as a civil rights issue akin to their own. They voted for it as bible-thumpers, unfortunately.
And here is where President Obama can have some impact in the years ahead, as he will be a very powerful inspiration to this community and others in fighting the hatred that Bush and Co. fostered.
Disappointed today, excited in the long run...

[Jax]

As a Canadian I am blown away that your neighbour can decide your human rights for you. That just would not fly here at all. An inclusive and human-rights based society is the only one that will survive. How oppressive is your nation!! I am so sad for you.

[rjs]

I really don't understand how gay marriage can be compared to the struggle of other minorities. The examples used in those commercials were disingenuous. Comparing prop 8 to internment camps and other minorities not being able to own land is absolutely absurd.

Twice now Californians have voted against gay marriage I think it's time to move on.

[just visitin']

Hilarious! the outrage from all you liberals at your african-american friends! where is your outrage at your president-elect. He towed the african-american line-traveling around with homo-hating religious figures, coming out against gay marriage. but y'all looovee you some Obama. Well, the One may have said he is against Prop 8, but he is also against gay marriage...kind of creates a culture of intolerance, don't it?

BTW: this Texas conservative (you know, one of those people you liberals love to hate) is a social liberal, and thinks it is evil that gays and lesbian are not permitted to marry, like any other loving couples.

You are now free to go back to hating conservatives...and Texans!

[Mysticalsister]

As a gay Californian who supported President Obama, I find it more than ironic that even as African Americans made their way to "the mountain top," so many of them paused long enough to dig their heels into the necks of their gay brothers and sisters. Their prejudice shows they are just fine with keeping us down because their religious beliefs allow discrimination and intolerance as it's against us, and not them.

As someone who devoted hours to supporting Obama, and hundreds of dollars I really didn't have, to see him elected, last night was miraculous. But -- I have to say that knowing that so many AA votes helped to put a gay marriage ban on California's constitution, has taken my joy and turned it to ashes in my mouth. So much for fairness and unity and Yes We Can. Apparently as far as the AA community is concerned, if you're gay, you can't.

[Yes8]

This is not about discrimination. This is not about the rights for gays to marry. That right never existed. This society allows you to be gay, allows you the same rights as a married couple. But enough is enough. Where would we draw the line, that anyone has to right to marry the person they love. Are we gonna alllow a father who falls in love with their daughter the right to marry her? Or do we need to allow bigamy, and polygamy? The buck stops here.

[Killer]

Being gay and being black are not the same For some of us it is an issue of religion and cannot get past the point that acts of homosexuality are seen as unGodly by most. I would hire a gay person, live in the same block go to the same stores and schools with no issues. But do not ask me to make your sexual preference valid, that is the difference. The union of two men and two women is fine, just do not ask to make it a legal thing or compare it to racism. That is when you loose me. Hell a gay white man always was in front of me when it came to the picking order in America

[RB]

The hicks who voted yes on 8 didn't do it to "uphold a tradational institution" or "maintain the nuclera family unit." They did it because they hate gays. I just wish more of them would admit it.

[XAIVER]

is this another forum for the losers to whine and moan about their losses???
GET OVER IT!

[Graham]

Divide and conquer!
Let's not make it personal. Fundamentalist Christianity holds a certain power with some minorities. We will get there, it justs takes time. Anyone feeling too devastated by this result needs to remember the last election 4 years ago which was basically won against gay marriage. Now voted in is a president who included gay or straight in his winning speech. More education and understanding still needs to be developed.

[Darren Shupe]

The issue should never have been before the voters in the first place. It's an issue of fundamental rights, not subject to the whims of a mob. I don't think government has any business promoting one lifestyle (marriage) over another (remaining single) in the first place, but if it does, to circumscribe the choice of consenting adults that a person can marry is clearly a freedom of association issue.

While we're at it, let's figure out a way to tighten up the initiative process so that they're few and far between. A good start would be to require ratification by 2/3 of counties, or perhaps a 3/4 margin in the popular vote. There should be a high hurdle to surmount so that only those propositions with overwhelming support win passage, particularly when amending the state Constitution is involved.

[Adam]

"Gay marriage is wrong. It's as simple as that."

Bigotry. It's as simple as that.

[Drew]

So, Prop 8 got a "yes" and gays are saying "discrimination." i guess they also don't care much for the entire course of human history up 'til now saying marriage = man + woman. They also do not seem to be concerned one whit that discriminating against the firmly held beliefs of christians, muslims, mormons, etc etc is a good thing. Here's a clue for the "no on 8" people. Their firm belief is not any more valid than anyone else's.

Also, marriage has never ever been a civil or other right. It has always been a civil contract and for those who are religious, a religious contract. Once more, it was never a right. There have always been sanctions, both civil and/or religious on who could marry. Conversely, a right has always been applied without restriction, so marriage has never qualified as a right.

[Mmm donuts]

This is precisely the type of case the courts should be involved in. The tyranny of the majority is very much at play here, and as was intended by the Founders, and as has proven time and time again, the courts are an essential defense in protecting such communities. Also, it does strike me as hypocritical of the black community to use many of the same arguments against gays that were used against them in previous decades. Protecting the sanctity of marriage? Say no to interracial marriage. Should gays be treated as an inferior class? Separate is never equal.

[Viv]

How ironic given the dismal statistics of black marriages. And this is from 1992...

"Black children are only half as likely as white children to be living in a two-parent household, and are eight times more likely than white children to live with an unwed mother. For black children under six, 'the most common arrangement -- applying to 42 percent of them -- was to live with a never-married mother.'"
The Abolition of Marriage, by Maggie Gallagher p. 117, citing Andrew J. Cherlin, Marriage, Divorce, Remarriage, rev. and enl. ed., (Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University Press, 1992), 98-99.

So, why would a group that has been discriminated against for decades want to prevent another group who is discriminated against from enjoying married life when they themselves appear to not believe in the institution of marriage? I don't get it. I guess this is like most religious initiatives...they make the people drink the kool-aid of hate and fear leading to irrational behavior.

[HM]

This is equivalent to voting in the first Gay American President while at the same time mandating that a black person cannot marry a white person. Sad day in CA for civil rights.

[JP]

The statistics do not surprise me at all. Blacks and latinos don't equate gay civil rights with racial civil rights and they have their bibles to support their prejudice and intolerance. I do remember hearing for years, "We're all the same under the skin." Oh, that was only for people of color apparently.

Hypocrites.

[Andrew]

Jax from Canada, I couldn't agree more. It was somewhat surreal, and ultimately stomach-turning, knowning that as I stood in line at the polls Tuesday morning, that the others standing in line with me would be allowed to determine what MY rights should be. It highlights a fundamental flaw with the American political system, and the California initiative process in particular. Uneducated, easily swayed voters should not be allowed to put propositions on the ballot. That is why we elect representatives and appoint an impartial judiciary.

[Black Christian]

Well said K.P.

I'm shocked that ONLY two-thirds of Christians backed Prop 8. The Bible CLEARLY states what God's thoughts are on homosexuality. (Romans 1:26-28; Leviticus 18:22). To summarize, God calls it an "abomination", "unnatural", and "indecent".

Apparently one-third of so-called Christians only believe a portion of God's word. That's like saying, "Lord, I know you're omniscient, but I know more than YOU about this particular matter, God. Thanks for allowing me to live in a country where I can freely worship you and vote, but I think you're wrong about homosexuality. Oh, by the way, please heal our nation Lord."

You hypocrites can't have it both ways!

By the way, stop putting the homosexuals on the same civil rights stage as being a racial or gender minority! Nowhere in the Bible does God say that being black, Hispanic, a woman, etc is an "abomination", "unnatural", or "indecent".

Most workplaces give the same benefits/perks to same-sex domestic partnerships anyway, so what's all the fuss about?

[Sean Collins]

One step forward and one step back for America! Other countries look to the USA as an example of how people can be treated equally. It was great to see an African-American elected president. One wonders if considerations of human rights played a large part in this when it seems that so many voters were ready to trample on the hope for equality of gay people.
I am sure that in the USA, like other countries, married people get enormous tax benefits not available to others. They promise to stay together for life. Usually they don't but they do not give back the tax benefits they gained through their mistake when all goes wrong. It all seems unfair to me.
Perhaps those who think marriage is so sacred that gays shouldn't touch it should work on banning divorce rather than "beating up" on gays.
Sean Collins, Melbourne, Australia

[jack]

I guess every group needs some other group to kick to the back of the bus. For blacks, gays will serve that function.

[AB]

For those who think Barack Obama will change the black community's mind about gay marriage, take a look at his record. He said on a few occasions that he is not in favor of gay marriage. Prop 8 supporters put out flyers with his and black pastors' quotes against gay marriage. Although neither I nor my wife is black, we received a few of these flyers in the mail. I thought it was quite clever: Using a liberal politician to support a socially conservative position.

[Max]

Usually when a campaign loses, the campaign strategy is questioned not the voters. Perhaps the "No On 8" side decided that Latino and African-American votes weren't as important. I know "Yes on 8" knocked on my door, "No On 8" spent all their time on the Westside.

[Dan Simon]

The basic equality and right to marry if they so wish should NOT be up to voters at all - it should be an automatic right in a free country such as the US, and not up to a bunch of hateful, bigoted, religious fanatics.
Outlawing African-Americans being able to marry (or, hey, ride the bus with whites) would NEVER be up for a 'vote' - rightly so. How can this be?
I am ashamed, truly and deeply, and this major step backwards for California.

[Mars]

I am a black man and am ashamed to see, but not surprised, that so many blacks do not favor same-sex marriage. Blacks, as a racial minority, have been discriminated against and continue to be in 2008. I find it so interesting that this same group of people chooses to discriminate against another minority group. And why should anybody be concerned with who people marry?? It's not your relationship. Gay marriage in Massachusetts has been legal for four years and life has continued as usual. Anybody who voted in favor of this should think about any point in their lives in which they were told they could not do something because they are "different." What is wrong with people? Spend some time doing something constructive.

[Andrew]

The more I think about it, I think a group of gay citizens should begin circulating a petition to eliminate rights for blacks, Latinos, and Mormons. There is absolutely no difference between that and what was put done to gays and lesbians yesterday. Let's see, how about requiring African Americans to pay a poll tax to vote. There's nothing in the California Constitution to prevent an initiative for that. Or how about an amendment that forbids Latinos from owning property five miles from the beach. Sounds ludicrous, but legally there is no difference between that and what happened yesterday.

[Ned Mandigo]

I find it Ironic blacks would celebrate Obama's victory in the Black Gay Capitol of Los Angeles; Leimert Park where black gay cruising is such a problem the city has debated closing the area after dark.

[Drew]

@Jax

So, being able to prosecute pastors for preaching what is in the Bible is a good thing?

I refer you to these incidents...

- The Rt. Reverend Dr. Peter Forster, Anglican Bishop of Chester, England was investigated under hate crimes legislation and reprimanded by the local Chief Constable for observing that some people can overcome homosexual inclinations and "reorientate" themselves. (The Telegraph, 10/11/03)

- In January of 2004 a Swedish Pentecostal Pastor Ake Green was prosecuted for "hate speech against homosexuals" for a sermon he preached last summer citing Biblical references to homosexuality. (Kyrkans Tidning, 01/11/04)

- Belgian Cardianal Gustaaf Joos faced (not sure if it's done) a lawsuit under that country's discrimination laws for his remarks about the nature of homosexuality and the Church's teaching published in a Belgium magazine. (CWNews.com, 01/26/04)

- Cardinal Antonio Maria Rouco Varela of Madrid also faced a suit in Spain for preaching against homosexuality in a homily he gave in the Madrid Cathederal on the feast of the Holy Family. (Washington Post, 01/03/04)

- In Ireland, clergy and bishops were warned that the distribution of the Vatican's publication on public recognition of same-sex relationships could face prosecution under Irish incitement to hatred legislation. (The Irish Times, 07/02/03)

And there's also a case in Canada recently too. Ah well, I guess enshrining a right to sue people for believing and preaching the Bible is the new "political correctness." What next? Burning Bibles and Christians? Maybe extending that to Muslims too. After all the Koran proscribes homosexuality as well.

[EricJ]

The point is that although YOU may believe that what you are is what you always were, that has always been a point of contention. Your feelings don't dictate how the laws are read. Besides, no one is telling you you cant be together, why don't we all embrace our differences in life and ideology ? Being the same is boring why not make civil unions your marriages?

[j2tharome]

I'm not African-American, but how can you compare what Homosexuals are going through to what African-Americans went through (and to a certain extent, still going through).

-Homosexuals were never forced to come to an unknown land

-Homosexuals were never forced to do slave labor

-Homosexuals never experienced going to seperate bathrooms or other facilities

-Homosexuals were never waterhosed

-Homosexuals were never denied to vote

So spare me the, "how can African-Americans not understand what we're going through?" crap. I doubt MLK, Malcolm X and any other civil rights leader would've approved of this.

[amy]

I am ashamed to call myself a Californian. All I can say is that that I know that this will one day be reversed. Just like all the laws against african americans and women were reversed and they were all given their rights, the same will happen with these laws. Gay people are just the new target of hate in this country. African Americans had their civil rights struggle and so will the gay community, I just hope it doesn't take as long for the country to come to its senses and stop being ignorant bigots.

[Lorac]

I can't believe that people or so involved in forbiding same sex marriage but yet they don't want to know if their teenage daughters are getting abortions??!!!
Talk about the religious people being ignorant!!
Who's judging now?? All of your are going to hell for judging others!
Throw the first rock he has NOT sinned!

[John]

To Jax from Canada,

I love the human rights angle. You talk as if some historic right has been taken away from people. Have gays lost free speech? Have they lost the ability to find and keep a job? Have they lost the ability to live together and love together as they chose? NO, NO, NO. All they lost is what was illegitmately given to them by 4 pompous judges who decided that they know more than the people. Fortunately, America decides, not the courts (at least for now). Marriage is and always has been a union between a man and a woman. Prop 8 is not taking anything away, it is simply attempting to assert what is. Maybe that will change in the future, but if it does, it should come from WE THE PEOPLE! Not some arrogant judge.

[douglas]

Supporters of Prop 8 will say that it is to protect marriage. If this is so, those who voted for Prop 8 have to ask themselves if they would also support a proposition to amend our constitution so that marriages can no longer be dissolved. If not, then they voted out of discrimination and not to protect marriage.

[SLS]

As to the comments by LJS and others who believe that somehow Gays are somehow in the same boat as blacks and others who were Wear there minority status on their skin and therefore blacks should be sympathetic to their case, I must take inception! It is NOT the same! Try as you might you can not look at a gay person and say with all certainty that person is gay, But you CAN look at a black person and KNOW they are Black! We did not choose the color of our skin or our ethnicity. Frankly I find the assumed similarity very insulting.
Stop complaining about the debased choices you have made for yourself, just because they are your choices doesn't mean the rest of the world has to agree with you. We just dont want your choices influencing our children.

[kristin]

Canadians may think Canada is the best country in the world, but remember that at least in the U.S., freedom of speech is guaranteed. Many views are censored by Canadian Human Right Commissions just because they offend someone, and I'm talking about both left and right wing views. If an editorial cartoon offends someone, it violates their human rights. If you publish an opinion that offends any religious grouip, it violates their human rights. You cannot have human rights if you do not have freedom of speech.

I am personally more shocked by how the Canadian government is willing to silence dissent merely because it offends someone. If everyone claims to be offended, then soon, no one will be able to voice their opinions.

[EricJ]

The point is that although YOU may believe that what you are is what you always were, that has always been a point of contention. Your feelings don't dictate how the laws are read. Besides, no one is telling you you cant be together, why don't we all embrace our differences in life and ideology ? Being the same is boring why not make civil unions your marriages?

[Amy]

Miriam: Heterosexuals have been screwing up marriage for hundreds of years. We have an incredibly high divorce rate in our religious "one man one woman" state. It disgusts me that a gay couple who have been together and have been completely committed to one another for 30 years cannot get married, but a man and woman can marry, divorce, re-marry, divorce, re-marry...

To everyone else: I believe part of the problem is that ethnic minorities don't consider homosexuals to be the same kind of "minority". There is still a large portion of the population that believe being gay is a choice, and until we convince them otherwise, this will always be an issue. Also, I feel that there were a lot of people on the fence about the issue and chose simply not to vote on Prop 8. Unfortunately, not voting hurt the no votes.

Bigotry is not dead in America. I think Californians got their hopes up when the nation elected its first-ever African American president - only to be brought back down to ugly reality by California, of all places.

[Danielle]

As a Black woman, and daughter of the Civil Rights movement, I am completely appalled by this decision. I can not believe that those who have been under scrutiny for hundreds of years would support a measure that subjects others under that same divisive hand of discrimination. Not all Blacks feel this way and not all Latinos. I for one appreciate the Gay Rigths Movement and understand that it goes hand in hand with all Civil Rights movements of our history and our future. I can NOT believe that this measure passed, I am completely shocked and saddened and I know a lot of other Blacks and Latinos who agree with me. So, for all opponents of Prop 8, please know that this statistic surely does not represent us all.

[Mike T.]

You guys are so politically correct, you don't even notice that this makes no sense:

"More than half of Latino voters supported Proposition 8, while whites were split. "

[TJ]

As African Americans we should always support the civil rights for everyone unconditionally.

[Amy]

EricJ: Were you also there decades ago telling African American's to enjoy the back of the bus and "make it their own"???

[Black Self Hatred]

It is classic human pyschology for a group recently enjoying newly gained civil rights to want to turn around and oppress other groups in order to flex their new found power. This is what blacks are now doing to gays. It relates to self hatred as much as anything.

[Jake]

This is a terrible day for California.

I am ashamed to be from this state.

Obama's win was great, and Proposition 8 passing took the joy of his victory away from me.

I don't want to live in this hateful country anymore. A country that brags to be the best in the world, yet it can't grant its citizens equal rights.

America is far from being the best.

Don't take me wrong, I loved this country with all my heart and was hugely patriotic.

Today has changed my views about the country I once loved.

I am moving to England next year, when I had originally planned to leave in 2 years.

My faith, belief, and love for this country has forever been changed.

[amy]

oh and by the way, black christian, the bible was used to promote slavery. White slave holders said that according to the bible it was their christian duty to save the heathen africans. And they did that by enslaving them. Africans were "abominations" because they weren't christians. Learn your own history and stop being ignorant.

[BV]

Dr. King would be happy that diversity one one battle due to the enlightenment of many, but sad that diversity also lost a battle due to the intolerance of some closest to him.

It makes me wonder if any gays will now back immigration reform and citizenship an issues dear to Hispanics and Asian communities, or if they will ever support another black politician. Bridges were burned. Some were spoiled and shut the door of inclusion behind them.

Are any minorities wise enough to see if we don't work together and fight for the rights of all the hurt of intolerance will divide us and we will all fall back to the bottom.

[Westside Tory]

What a laugh: all you libtards need the colored vote to get Barry Hussein elected, but you're demanding that their "unintelligent" votes for Prop 8 be discarded!

The coalition cracks, on day one of the Messiah's era. Can y'all blame this one on Bushie too?

[Sebastian Paul]

In this Proposition 8 battle, I do not think it was that mainstream people were against gay marriage. I believe it was the possibility that instruction in public school was going to be affected by the non passing of the Proposition. I think for most christian affiliated minorities who have progressed in their acceptance of gay marriage are really not against the idea of two homosexual people marrying, they are just against the instruction of it in the public system, plain and simple. As a Christian I have numerous friends who are homosexual. I believe the vote was not against gay marriage, it was against the force feeding of it in the public educational system. This was a proposition that some people were most definitely confused about due to the wording of it.

[Disgusted]

It's sad that we seem to be walking backwards rather than forwards. In the 60s and 70s the Black Panther Party worked WITH the Gay Liberation Front. They understood that ANY group of people being discriminated against was wrong. There can't be social equality in the world until everyone is equal. I'm sorry that that message has been lost.

And yes, there were other groups that also voted for Prop 8 and they are just as wrong. Christians, you don't get to pick and choose what parts of the Bible you believe -- only 10 verses after "gay marriage": "You shall keep My statutes. You shall not let your livestock breed with another kind. You shall not sow your field with mixed seed. Nor shall a garment of mixed linen and wool come upon you." Apparently you only feel the need to keep His statutes if they allow you to interfere directly in the lives and happiness of another person.

This was not about children, this was not about YOUR traditional marriage, this was about hatred and discrimination, and in a land of religious freedom applying your religious beliefs hatefully to those around you.

[Jax]

~I hadn't set out to change the world in any way. Whatever I am, it is a culmination of the goodwill of people who, regardless of anything else, saw me as I am, and not as somebody else.~ Marian Anderson

Marian Anderson, a famous black singer, joined a junior church choir at the age of six. After her graduation from high school in 1921, she applied to an all-white music school but was turned away because she was black. The woman working the admissions counter replied, "We don't take colored" when she tried to apply. Bigotry and oppression. She had to travel through Europe to get away from the racist attitudes of Americans. A WHITE man named Jean Sibilius believed in her and helped her to become the world-famous singer and fulfill her dreams. Imagine! Thank god HE wasn't a bigot!

~~As long as you keep a person down, some part of you has to be down there to hold the person down, so it means you cannot soar as you otherwise might.~ Marian Anderson

Read your post Miriam, if you think gay marriage is wrong, I would suggest you don't enter into one.

[Adam]

I think it's funny that in California a group that has been historically discriminated against is happy that they have their first president and to celebrate they decided to discriminate against gays because leaders of a religion that was used to discriminate against them tell them that gays are bad

[Irene]

Since when is race a moral issue? The bible clearly states that we are neither "Jew nor gentile" etc... We are one people because we are all born in gods image. Homosexuality is a moral issue. Race is not.
Let's not relegate an entire race or races of individuals into a ethical and moral corner based on the color of their skin. Racial minorities are a rich and diverse group comprised of christinans, atheists, liberals, conservatives and so on. Talk about closed minded.

[J Lee]

A man marrying a man and my black experience has nothing in common! It is wrong, never should have been on the ballot and that's my opinion. I stand by it!

[Tahler]

Shame on the black Obama voters who propelled this wrong and unfair ballot measure.

[mysticalsister]

As a gay Californian who is thrilled with the election of our first black president, and a truly great man -- I am deeply saddened by the AA communitie's participation in discrimination. That said, I am heartened by the thoughts of the few people here who decry this effort to take away my rights by casting a vote in an election.

For those who are gloating about the passage of this proposition by a mere 400,000 votes, you need to know something. My rights are not up for your vote -- my rights are sacrosanct because I am an American. Your understanding of that fact is lagging. Time and fairness dictate that the many shall not disenfranchise the rights of the few just because they have numbers on their side. Eventually, because this is America, you will have to accept that fact.

[SFesq]

Shame shame shame on the African American community. It is because African Americans turned out in higher numbers than in other elections that Prop. 8 passed, pure and simple. 70% compared all other ethic groups which were all close to 50% voting in favor of discrimination? There is something dysfunctional there, akin to the rampant antisemitism that exists in higher proportion with this group (which, thankfully, is no longer fashionable, unlike homophobia). There is no moral authority with this community - when you say principles of equality apply to you and not to others, you're a hypocrite. And if you take the argument that Christian conservatives voted overwhelmingly in favor, the Caucasian, Latino and Asian Christian votes were counteracted by progressive Caucasians, Latinos, and Asians - but the "progressive" African Americans weren't there. Shame!

[AXG]

I’ve been completely confused by the whole kids and schools angle that Prop. 8 supporters used. Do today’s parents still think that by merely saying the words “gay” and “lesbian” in the classroom their kids will come home with cooties? Do they think that acknowledging gay people exist and can get married will turn their little darlings into instant homos? Children learn about Adolph Hitler yet very few become White Supremacists. Why is that?

[Joel Dean]

It truly is sad to see this statistic. You would think Latinos fighting for immigrant rights would have been more compassionate.

The historic event that has just occured for our 44th President, just goes to show you how compassionate Black Amercians are towards others, fighting for their own rights; civil, fundamental or however you want to term it.

While a previous poster mentioned it does not represent all of you, it represents a majority.

[Mark San Diego]

I must echo what others here have said. I am a gay Califorian who poured everything into helping Barack gain the presidency. I donated hours, hundreds of dollars, emailed everyone I could and talked him up constantly since he was one of seven candidates in the primaries. I was so proud when they announced his victory last night. I wept, hugging my gay and straight friends as we watched the first African-American become our President. I will always be proud of what we achieved last night. No one can ever take that away.

But to hear today that 70% of African Americans voted to take away my right to marry was just devastating.

Many of my friends, most of them couples who had been together for decades, have effectively had their marriages annulled by a cruel majority. Shame on the people who voted for this. Shame on California.

But how could African Americans, on such an historic day, do this? And especially when Barack and Joe Biden had made it clear they opposed Prop. 8...

So sad.

[Gay American Voter]

Isn't it ironic that all the so called "Christian values voters" voted for the rights of their underaged daughters to have abortions, but voted against gay rights?

Isn't it also ironic, that so many voted for the rights of animals, but against the rights of gay people to marry?

How many people voted "Yes on 8" thinking they were voting FOR gay rights?

What a mess.

[Douglas]

to j2tharome

let's remember that president-elect obama never went through any of the things you mentioned either. all this celebrating, and he is not even from the same tradition as the african americans who are descended from slaves.

[Dee]

I'm also a black woman and I am saddened by this news. I definitely support Gay and Lesbian rights and understand the plight that you all have is similar to what we have. I think that you all should have the same rights as all Americans and it doesn't constitute whether you are a man or a woman. I am in Houston, Texas and was crossing my fingers that this would not pass. I'm truly saddened, please do not harden your hearts against black people b/c I know for sure that there are many of us who support your union.

Dee from Houston.

[I HAD A DREAM]

Apparently Martin Luther King Jr had a dream for blacks, but not for everyone.

[PDuff]

At least now the KKK and the blacks who voted for Prop. 8 have something in common. Maybe the KKK should let blacks join since they seem to be thinking the same way anyway.

They can hide all they want behind false assertions on marriage and cherry-picking from the Bible, but at the end of the day they're cut from the same cloth of bigot.

On Monday I was color blind. Today I'm not so sure, and that is YOUR legacy.

Congratulations.

[lola]

Um, blacks have a horrendous track record with teen moms, absent dads, abuse- and addiction-riddled marriages and illegitimate children. Gay marriage is no where near being a threat to black kids -- "when you point your finger, three more point back at you"!

[Najee]

I am an african american male and it has really infuriated me that proposition 8 recieved support from 70percent of my community... even my own mother voted for this proposition... I do believe that homosexuality is still a major taboo in our community however I dont understand how so many in my community cannot see that these same arguments (kids, sanctity, etc.) were used to keep us from being married... i mean there was a reason why we had to jump over brooms.... I am waiting for the day when logic and understanding will override fear and prejudice in all of our communities

[Justified]

Four men are standing on a street. All are wearing black sneakers, blue jeans, and t-shirts. Two of them are of African descent (and are not bi-racial) and two of them are homosexual.

With no other information available, pick out the two homosexuals.

You can't do it with any degree of accuracy.

It is a tremendous fallacy to compare being gay to being black. There's no hiding (barring extenuating circumstances) being black. In general, a glance at an individual will tell you "they're black" or not. The same can not be said of being gay.

[Jax]

As a last note (Andrew and Danielle, I appoint you Honourary Canadians!! Hugzz) I invite all gays and lesbians to come to Canada to get married. We have enjoyed all the dollars you bring to our country as we help celebrate your love for each other. The sky has for certain not fallen here and neighbours value you on the strength of your goodness, not who shares your loveseat. I'm not sure about the prosecuting pastors thing, I got lost with that one, sorry Drew. And John, marriage is NOT just between a man and a woman. At least not here, in a democratic society that values human decency and brotherly love and good will unto others. And thank God for that!

Cheers to all who did the right thing and made their voices heard against discrimination. And shame on those who hide behind so-called Moral values,,,since when is LOVE immoral??? Wow.

[oakland girl]

One step forward, one step back - like Barack said it's time to step forward and engage - so take credit and responsibility for what you have wrought. Who would have thought Black people would vote for adding discrimination language to the State Constitution. What a shame.

If the enemy of my enemy is my friend, then black people just got into bed with the Mormons, the KKK, skinheads, ultra-right wingers and all kinds of new friends. double shame.

Enjoy your Prop 8 victory, it will be your undoing.

[Eddie]

As a friend remarked, I think it's amazing that we took away rights from humans and gave more to animals with our propostions.

[Disappointed]

LGBT groups have long given support to racial equality and other civil rights issues. It is incredibly disappointing, but not surprising to see it is not a two-way street. It has been a general theme in the AA community for many years and doesn't seem to be changing much due to very fundamental religious views. Now a fork in the road for LGBT activists: continue to support AA causes and try to change opinions or stop assisting and supporting.

[Jim in Venice]

You know it pretty simple. those who voted against Gay marriage are usually the ones who question their own sexuality. Being a gay male, you see str8 guys go through this time and time again. Do you realize how many men (religious or not) go to West Hollywood or look online for GAY sex AND, follow through with it and then go back to wifey, but then will be the first one to scream FAG around their buddies. NOW that I have your attention, The sad part about it is....this proposition isn't even about sex, it's about LOVE. But to most str8 people because of the lack of knowledge and or understanding, when someone says gay, they think sex. Get some education will ya!

[SFesq]

Irene, Killer and others... This is *not* a moral issue because one is born gay, just like you are born black, or white, or whatever. It's genetic (although not hereditary), and can't be changed, and it's not something you have a choice about. That's what it comes down to - not behavior, not belief, not how you are raised - but how you are born. Now tell me - how is that any different than race? You might have a belief because of a literal translation of the Bible, but most people who are good Christians don't have the hostility toward gay people the way the African American community does. Someone please explain this special hostility.

[blah blah]

Gay marriage destabilizes society - it's as simple as that. God made man and woman and gave them the instruction and means to procreate and populate the earth. Marriage between a man and a woman has the been the basis for strong families since the beginning of time and should remain that way. If everyone were gay who would produce the children? There would be no more families.

I am also not comfortable with gay marriage because ultimately our children would have to learn that marriage between two people of the same sex is possible - ultimately confusing children and possibly questioning their own sexualities. Children are very impressionable and must learn that traditional marriage is meant to be between a MAN and WOMAN. At least they would have the traditional meaning of marriage straight in their heads before they become mature and decide for themselves whom to choose for a partner, be it gay or straight. Bottom line - the passage of this proposition puts stability in our society and protects our families and children!

[J]

Wait.....This is Black people's fault???? You guys are ignorant, if you think the majority of votes supporting this measure were black. You should've campaigned smarter, and educated people, and you would've succeeded. Me and my wife are Christians, but I had to actually have a conversation with her, before we both decided to vote against it. Otherwise we would've voted without thinking through it thoroughly, due to being raised in pentecostal churches. It's not even a civil rights issue to most minorities it's strictly religious. You can't convince people to go against their religion. What you need to do is convince them that their religion is personal to them, in the same way that gay marriage is to the gay/lesbian community. Then it becomes a more winnable argument. I can't believe people want to blame African Americans for being set back. African americans would've never put the measure on the ballot in the first place. Smarten up!!!!

[Jon R.]

Saying that gay marriage is simply wrong is not an argument. If you have no reason, you have no position. Apart from being an ignorant bigot.

[chauncy]

"Um, blacks have a horrendous track record with teen moms, absent dads, abuse- and addiction-riddled marriages and illegitimate children. Gay marriage is no where near being a threat to black kids -- "when you point your finger, three more point back at you"!

Posted by: lola | November 05, 2008 at 05:00 PM"
***********************************************************
Now there's the hypocritical liberal for you. You thought that voting for Obama would ease your white guilt, but it goes to show the bigotry between the "superior" white liberal and the downtrodden african-american is still alive and well in suburban America.

[Camille]

Aside from the group gathered at the corner of Robertson and Sta Monica I did not see the campaigning or promotion that served our president elect so well. I am a human being who happens to be lesbian and black and growing up I can remember experiencing the separatist acts of racism in the gay community as well as the straight. This I feel more than anything has weakened the gay community in its efforts against prop 8 and needs to be addressed if we are to tackle bigger issues of seeking acceptance on a constitutional level. Unify across color lines first and then lets face the bigger issue. Have we not learned anything from our past mistakes? Come on people, WAKE UP!!!!!!

[joebama]

Obama is against gay marriage. Better luck in 2012.

[Weenie]

You know, I have a gay cousin who happens to be black as well. He voted YES on 8 and his partner voted NO. My cousin feels that the Domestic Partner Act provides all of the coverage they need. He does NOT believe in same -sex marriage. It is a matter of belief and conviction. That is what the voting process is all about. How dare you slam someone for voting for what they feel is right...deep in their hearts. This is what democracy is all about. Many of the propositions that passed were directly opposed to what I felt was right. However, many of my peers, neighbors, co-workers felt differently. I am not upset with them. We all had equal chances to vote our beliefs. The will of the people was raped by the Supreme Court. If you want to be angry with someone...be angry with them.

[DFS]

I was disappointed to see Prop 8 pass to, and as a black gay man particularly to see how the black vote was so heavily in favor. I think a possibility that hasn't been examined is that a lot of blacks may have only voted for president and not on prop 8, except for the blacks who felt more strongly in support of prop 8. The field polls of blacks showed 49% for and 43% against. That is way out of what from the

But I see also that it didnt take long for the racism that is always just below the surface in the white gay community to now have an excuse to find expression.

[A. Lagos]

Let me state the following before I state my opinion:
1) I am Latino (multiple countries, but not Mexican)
2) I am Catholic, pray the rosary often and attend mass at least once a month usually, and am staunchly anti-abortion (but against criminalizing it in any way)
3) I am a veteran
4) I am an engineer
which if it needs to be spelled out implies
5) I am a Republican

Given this, so there is no mistake about where I am demographically. Let me state the following:

Most Latinos (including over 80% of my relatives) are politically liberal, and I certainly am more liberal than most of my friends in Orange County (but more conservative than my family by a half-mile for sure). So yes, while I may be for social welfare programs, for some version of socialized medicine (at least catastrophic care for all, and a basic plan for children and the elderly) and for grants and loans so that smart kids (regardless of background) can attend college (in exchange for some degree of public service), that does not nor should not imply that we support every pet cause of the left. My church tells me that social justice is an unabashed good, so I fight injustice where I see it. Not just because my church and faith tell me that is what I must do, but also because of professional obligation, for I served in a unit where the motto was De Oppresso Liber (Freedom for the Oppressed), and trust me when I say, I take that message to the center of my being. The church also tells me that homosexuality is a sin, and that marriage is for one man and one woman so that they can procreate. My relatives believe this just as fervently as I do, and from blacks I served with and consider closer than my own family, they believe just as I do, and for the same reasons. Because it gets compared to integration of the armed forces, let me tell you this, skin color is utterly benign and in no way impacts behavior or discipline in a military unit. Sexual conduct and preference are at the very center of behavior. Or to be more general about it, people's sex lives directly and indirectly impact all sorts of conduct. Whilst I am not saying that homosexuality (either the preference or the act) needs to be made illegal (personally if that is your thing, I have no desire to try to police your sex life nor do I want the state doing it on my behalf), but given the reasons that marriage is entered into by a couple: legal, social, and economic stability; the formation of a family unit; procreation and the education and nurturing of children; legitimizing sexual relations; given that homosexual couples cannot breed without artificial assistance, nor can form a family as has been biologically or traditionally understood since the beginning of time, why should a preferred status be accorded them?

[Deborah Nowland]

Because I voted to preserve the traditional definition of marriage I am a bigot? How can anyone know what I am and what I think? I am the furthest from being a bigot that anyone could know. But I also will fight to the death for the rights of my family and my religious freedoms.

I applaud the AA, Hispanic, married, and religious people who stood up for their moral beliefs.

[Paul]

Its time to get over it!!! the people have spoken... The homosexual can create their own institution but you cannot redefine an ancient institution that is between one man and one woman. This is not a civil rights issue the homosexual community maintains the same rights as a married couple (called a 'civil union'). But there is a radical homosexual agenda that aims to strip the rights of the religious! Tolerance goes both ways.. please begin your own institution do not redefine ours!!!

[Dwight]

We have lost our hold on right and wrong. There is no constitutional right to perversion. Gay's have the same rights as the rest of us, they can marry the opposite sex of their choice. Why do we need special rights? Two men cannot be wed in Holy Matrimony. They do not have the plumbing to create a family of their own. This yes on 8 requires no justification. For those who have an unnatural lust, domestic partners have the same rights as married people. But let's not ever make an immoral act the equivalent of real love.

This is not discrimination. This is a behavioral issue.

[suspect82]

I voted NO on Prop8 and for John McCain. I guess not all Republicans hate. : )

[disappointed californian]

As it was said on the news today... Californians just gave more rights to animals. The sad thing about the whole situation is that those ads were misleading. This ballot measure had NOTHING to do with education, and teaching our children about gay marriage. And then I saw the whole one page ad that was in the Times on Sunday... how are gay couples wanting the right to be married affect religious freedom? The whole point of religious freedom is that individuals have the right to chose THEIR own religions. Gay couples should have every right to marry. People need to get over themselves and quit discriminating.

[AVRIL]

FIRST AND FOREMOST, WHAT AFRICAN-AMERICANS WENT THROUGH DURING SLAVERY IS IN NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM TO BE COMPARED TO A CHOSEN LIFESTYLE OF INDIVIDUALS. STOP COMPARING YOURSELVES TO THEM AND OTHER "RACIAL" GROUPS. THEY HAVE SUFFERED THROUGH HORRIFIC INDIGNITIES, AND TO COMPARE YOUR SELF TO THEM IN THIS CASE IS A SLAP IN THE FACE TO THEM.

I CANNOT SPEAK FOR ALL AFRICAN-AMERICANS, BUT A FEW GOOD FRIENDS OF MINE (WHOM ARE CHRISTIANS) SAY THEY BELIEVE IN WHAT THE BIBLE SPEAKS ON THIS ISSUE, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HATRED OR BIGOTRY. IN ESSENCE YOUR UPSET WITH THEM FOR HAVING A BELIEF SYSTEM THAT DOES NOT AGREE WITH YOURS. EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO BELIEF AND "VOTE" AS THEY WILL. THAT'S LIKE BEING MADE AT A JEWISH PERSON BECAUSE THEY FOLLOW SOME ASPECT OF THE TORAN THAT YOU MAY HAVE FAULT AGAINST.

AND ON ANOTHER NOTE, WHERE DO WE END THIS "ANYTHING GOES" ATTITUDE. WE HAVE LAWS AND THE CONSTITUTION FOR A REASON, THIS BEING ONE OF THEM, TO REMIND US OF WHAT HAS BEEN GOVERNED, SWORN IN AND ORDAINED AS LAWFUL IN OUR LAND.

WHAT IF I WANTED TO MARRY ONE OF MY DOGS, OR ONE OF MY HORSES? COULD I DO SO JUST BECAUSE I'M AN AMERICAN AND "I HAVE RIGHTS!!!!" OF COURSE NOT. IT SOUNDS INSANE, BUT I GUARANTEE YOU THAT IF GAY MARRIAGE WOULD BE ALLOWED, THE LEGALIZATION OF BEASTEALOGY WOULD HAVE BEEN NEXT.

[Kirk Thomas]

Enough with this "will of the people" rhetoric. Since when are basic rights in our society allowed to be given or taken away by the tyranny of the majority? The California Supreme Court (which is very conservative, by-the-way) acted as they must to protect the rights of a minority against the fear and prejudices of the majority. Now, it seems, anyone's rights are up for grabs. How would you like it if a vote were passed that said that only Mormons could marry? You'd say, well the courts would strike it down as unconstitutional. Wait, that's just what the California Supreme Court did, and yet they are called "activist." It appears that this label only applies to a court that makes a decision that some people don't like. Watch out, everyone. There will be even further attempts to take away basic civil rights!

[Hurt and Depressed]

It is just very very sad that African Americans ignored their own history and wrote discrimination into the state constitution. It wasn't too long ago that churches rose up to try and defeat integration and inter-racial marriage. The sum of all this is that African Americans have proved themselves as ignorant as Evangelical Christians. I'm sorry I voted for the gang initiatives and the school initiatives and anything else that will take my tax dollars to help their community, as it obviously does not deserve any more state welfare. Thank you for ruining what should have been a joyous day for all. Pray on that next Sunday.

[invisible]

I feel completely invisible.

The great majority of straight people I encounter would never think that I could be gay.
When I do come out to a relative, or a coworker, I always get the " I would never have guessed it ! " response.

I hear and experience homophobic hatred and ignorance - every day of my life.
From people who have no clue that I'm in the group they hate.
Sometimes they get an earful; sometimes I ignore it and let it go.

Pain is pain; oppression is oppression.

I'm so happy and hopeful that today Obama is our leader.

I'm so sad and angry that today I am told - for the trillionth time - that I do not matter.