70% of African Americans backed Prop. 8, exit poll finds

A lot of Obama/Yes-on-8 voters? The Associated Press exit polls show that African Americans and Latinos backed Proposition 8 in good numbers. Details here from AP:

California's black and Latino voters, who turned out in droves for Barack Obama, also provided key support in favor of the state's same-sex marriage ban. Seven in 10 black voters backed a successful ballot measure to overturn the California Supreme Court's May decision allowing same-sex marriage, according to exit polls for The Associated Press.

More than half of Latino voters supported Proposition 8, while whites were split. Religious groups led the tightly organized campaign for the measure, and religious voters were decisive in getting it passed. Of the seven in 10 voters who described themselves as Christian, two-thirds backed the initiative. Married voters and voters with children strongly supported Proposition 8. Unmarried voters were heavily opposed.

-- Shelby Grad

Photo: Los Angeles Times

Comments

[Alice]

Frankly, I don't care who gets married as long as everyone is treated equal. So, the reason I voted against it is because of the two parties that involve this issue (churches, gays) would not be equal. The churchs would not have the protection to continue to their beliefs if this lawpassed. They would be considered to be hate mongers and therefore could lose or definitely lose their 501(c) status and force the churches to marry people against their beliefs. Freedom of religion is the reason why America came to be. So, Gays believe they are discriminated, what would happen to churchs?

[Time will Tell]

The idea that black people hate gay people and that this is the reason for support proposition 8 is incorrect. I am a black man, and I see there are differences between the union of a man and a ewoman, and the same-sex unions. It is because of these differences on a biological level, and in the functions of the marriages that prop 8 was supported. That we with stood up saying that we people do not agree with the decision of the courts, that marriage between a man and a woman is named for it's uniqueness and what is possible in the relationship that is not possible in the relationships of same sex couples. To allow them the same name as heterosexual couples is in-accurate and unjust.

Why? because of the differences. What differences? The fact that even if a Gay couple decides to have a child, there is no way for that child to look like both parents. It can only look like one of the mothers or one of the Fathers. They are not through their union able to product an offspring that is a reflection of both people. They are not able to merge.

Also if we just look at the two biologically. Naturally speaking, and look at how the bodies are made, a man's body is able to become one with a woman's sexually. A woman is not able to become one with another woman, due to the incompatibility of their sexual organs. Men have to go into a place designed for waste, and have to get perhaps a surrogate mother if they wan't children. Or bring a child from a previous marriage.

Then if we don't look at children, the biological differences between a man and a woman. The idea that where a woman is weak a man is strong, and where a man is weak a woman is strong. That through their marriage, the purpose for it was the elimination of weaknesses in both parties.

This does not happen with a union between a woman and a woman, or a man and a man. They are both the same biologically and weak in the same areas, thus not causing their biological differences to be successfully eliminated by their union.

Thus a different name is needed describe the union between a man and a man, and a woman and a woman. Why ? Not because of bigotry or racism or any of these things the gay marriage movement is using to mobilize it's forces. The reason gay unions should have a different name is because their union is different. It's different on a biological level, it's different in the area of offspring, it's different in what their union achieves, it is altogether different and to call it the same thing is incorrect and inaccurate.

This is just a thought, but no matter how hard gay couples want a child that looks like both of them they can't. There is no law they can pass, no Supreme court they can go to, that will allow them the ability to produce a child that looks like both of them. The child will either look like part of one of the women, or one of the men. The laws of nature will not change just because you really want them to. Then why should we change the legal laws of this land just because gay people really want something. Rally want to have what heterosexuals have had, and have been provided through the naturalness of their relationship.

[Tyme will Tell]

I like Obama being a black man, and think he makes wise decisions. But the idea that we are brothers and sisters with gay people, or that citizens of a country are brothers and sisters is just not an accurate statement. Being a part of a country and citizens of the same country is not the same as being part of the same family.

We are all American's and should treat each other the way we want to be treated. All rights and privileges should be afforded to same-sex couples they should be given a name that accurately depicts their union.

Their union though is not the same as heterosexual marriage, and differs on a biological level, in the level of offspring, and also in what their marriage causes. A man and a woman's union causes each genders weaknesses to be eliminated. The weaknesses of a woman are taken care of by the Man. The man's weaknesses in certain areas are eliminated by the woman. Thus the purposes for their union to eliminate both weaknesses and for them to become one.

A woman and a woman are biologically the same, thus they are unable to cover for the others weaknesses because biologically they are the same. A man and a man have the same weaknesses thus their union does not have the same benefits or end's that a man and a woman's marriage does.

Thus it should by the law be referred to by a different name, so that it's not called the same as a heterosexual marriage. Because they are different and should be referred to differently.
Other differences a child had by a same sex couple, is unable to look like both parents, it can only look like one or the other. In sexual intercourse due to the incompatibility of women's sexual organs they are not able to sexually become one.

[RCB]

We need to realize what is happening here. The 70% statistic I first heard was from Michael Savage and the Rush Limbaugh and then all of the other right wing talkies picked it up. It was used intentionally to distract the people from the fact that the religious right propelled this to victory and to try (some what successfully) to divide the supporters of the gay right and other minority right supporters. Don’t let them succeed. It was not the blacks or Latinos or the Asians that did this to us. It was that there was a lack of outreach to certain demographic by the no on 8 campaign and the extreme effort by Christian groups to drive a wedge into the minority community. It is a perfect example of how the white led Christian theocracy has used religion as it always does to separate, divide and abuse the minority communities. They have done this for hundreds of years, yet it gets a pass every time because we are distracted by their rhetoric. The news media picked this one talking point to sensationalize the story and by doing so they perpetuate and feed into the extreme right wing agenda which is to destroy gays and minorities before the coming of Christ. Dr. Dobson from focus on the family said in an interview that he personally could not go to heaven until he had defeated gay marriage, and overturned roe v. wade to prevent abortions. Talk about someone with a personal agenda. Well don’t be fooled, these people also think Obama is a "secret Muslim" and the anti-Christ. If this is so, as Christian I welcome the coming of the antichrist because that means the 2nd coming of Christ is near and that is a great thing in Christianity. However as a Christian I also se this for what it is, just rhetoric and hate mongering to continue to divide minority communities to prevent them from making any progress in their battle for their goals.

[Michelle Hudson]

All you folks on this message board who are blaming the African American community for Prop 8 passing are so misguided. Since when have black people in this country held such power. Oh yeah, maybe since Obama won. LOL. That said, what other time in history have we ever held such power? The answer is never. Black folks in this country have suffered enumerable injustices, especially prior to the Civil Rights movement, but along side our gay, straight, white, black, latino, jewish brethen & many others, we have been able to successfully change laws and eventually people's minds.

I'm a black woman who lives in San Francisco and my husband and I were vehemently opposed to Prop 8 and voted accordingly. However, every time I speak about this propositon, when I sat down to vote on it, I had to constantly say in my head, I'm for gay marriage, but my vote should be NO. A no vote meant yes, YES vote meant NO. Who could keep it straight, but I digress.

Getting gay marriage to become legal in this state and eventually the country will require an enormous amount of work, the kind of work we saw at the grassroots level that got Obama elected. Who among us thought it was going to be easy? Is it because we live in the more liberal parts of the state? Well, I have news for you all, most of it is podunk. People are backwards and even when they aren't, they are religious, small minded, racist, sexist and homophobic. That said, instead of continuing to focus on the votes you did not get and the tiny minority groups that showed you no love, let's galvanize and figure out next steps. All this energy against the AA group comes a little too late. Those of us who believe in your right to marry should have focused more strongly on counteracting the false TV ads and finding ways to combat all the wrong messages put out there by the Mormans who poured over $40 million into the state. Talk about hypocritical, gays can't marry one another, but it's ok to marry children, but again, I digress. Back to my point. If you want to beat up on a particular group, beat up on yourselves. How strong was your commitment before election day to get the word out againts Prop 8. I just heard Melissa Ethridges' wife on Oprah talk about the fact that marriage between her and her wife was not that important. She's happy with civil union rights and her relatives referring to Melissa as her wife. How do you all feel about her saying that on national TV? I hope the public outcry against her is as strong as it continues to be against the 6.9% of AA who voted yes. I'd argue that such lackluster backing by a gay woman who does share a domestic partnership did little to champion this cause. It is precisely that kind of ambivalence and lack of support that damaged your rights.

I'll say it again, I'm a black woman who believes in your right to marry, what are the next steps? How can we fix this? Can someone write that story please.

[Kate]

Yes8 wrote:

"But enough is enough. Where would we draw the line, that anyone has to right to marry the person they love. Are we gonna alllow a father who falls in love with their daughter the right to marry her?"

I'll never understand what's wrong with the braincells of people who make these arguments. We draw lines where it helps society and individuals as best as we can. We don't say "Well, if we let 16 year olds drive we have to let 5 year olds drive!" Life is about drawing lines. Ones that line disallowed interracial marriage. Once it required a woman to have the consent of her parents. The world changes, and we learn things. A man marrying his daughter obviously damages family relations not to mention introducing horrific genetic difficulties. This will never be allowed. But just as we draw a line on when people can drive, drink, vote we have to draw lines.

Some people just took the kneww-jerk simplistic way out on this one.

[Kate]

This isn't complex. The majority of white and asian voters voted no. So if you are gay, there is no other way to look at it but that the black and latino votes took away your rights. Its very sad, but sticking your head in the sand doesn't negate the truth of what happened. And believe me, no one fights for the rights of those who are are taking away your own rights -- this rift will be long and deep.

[Michael]

If gays were depending on blacks to take Prop 8 down, then they aren't as good at math as they are with gentrifying black communities (oh wait...could that have been it?)

Black people make up a little over 6% of CA population—the smallest minority next to Pacific Islanders. That's about 2.15 million in a state of over 35 million.

Just for kicks, that's only about 1 million eligible voters. Highest black voter turnout by county? Bout 62% in LA. Let's be generous and apply across the board...

620,000 eligible black voters. If 70% voted yes for Prop 8... 434,000...but that percentage is a random sample and not total numbers.

So, yeah. Count on 6% of the population to turn it around. Seems like the white gays blaming blacks should have started their campaign at home...

[MarkML]

Those who believe in "social justice" who even have the audacity to compare the treatment of Black Americans in this country to that of homosexuals clearly demonstrate a twisted sense of morality!

It's almost as if you "liberals" are saying that Black people owe you for helping them obtain basic human rights. Maybe because you never sincerely liked Black people in the first place, but hoped that by supporting them, they would in-turn support your fringe ideologies.

Last time I checked, gay people were never made into slaves, never lynched in masses, never raped by their White masters, and never even deprived of decent schools or jobs. I am quite sure that IF gay people were ever treated this way, they would suddenly discover they were "straight" real quick. And yet you will continue to draw these parallels, and act as if it wasn't the right thing to do to fight for Black people to have these basic human rights, simply because they've "turned their backs" on your darling minority group -- the gays. Unbelievable!

Compared to what Black Americans had to go through, the only thing that gay people have lost is a piece of paper and the legal right to force the rest of society to accept YOUR lifestyle choice.

Afterall, that's all marriage legally is - a piece of paper that confers unified social acceptance of a "special relationship". Only problem is that while 99.99% of society accepts straight marriages as legitimate, less than 50% accept gay marriages.

You can't make people accept you. Black people understand this quite well. Even today, many White people in America will avoid walking on the same street as a Black person. Should we now make a law that forces White people to shake hands with every Black person they meet?

Gay people want to bully people into accepting them, and all this is going to create is more hostility. So sorry you couldn't get your damn piece of paper. Boo hoo! No one is stopping you from having a committed relationship like marriage, and you can even call it a marriage amongst yourselves and your supporters. There are even churches willing to marry you, although I guess most of you are atheists.

But WE don't want the courts telling us that we have to call your relationship a marriage. And I think we as a society have a right to vote on an agreeable term to give to your relationships, and that term is not "marriage", because like it or not a majority of people do not consider your relationship or lifestyle choice to be a marriage.

You know what? Do you think that if the government stopped giving out marriage certificates to straight people that they'd stop getting married? Of course not. People will do as they please, with or without soceity's approval. So go ahead and do what you think is right, but just don't try to force all of use to agree with you. Ok?

[ddb]

I just love all these "Christian" hate comments against gays and gay marriage. These hate mongrels love their rights concerning common "real" and “tangible property and other financial ties and social security benefits of their hetero-spouse; however, they love to voice their hatred toward gay people ... yes "PEOPLE." It just proves one thing; they give "using the Lord's name in vane" new meaning. These idiots never do their homework on social issue like this to try to discover new and improved values. They do not even realize that gays typically pay more taxes filing a single tax return rather than having the right to file jointly. YES, gays pay more taxes and even pay enormous SCHOOL TAX for your brat kids who go around disrespecting gays by saying, "That's so GAY!" You people are worthless to your religion and to humanity. The best part here is their conception of "the sanctity of marriage." Give me a break, if it is that sanctified, then why do 50% of you divorce in less than two years? My stance is this ... If gay people should not be allowed to marry, then heteros should not be allowed to divorce ... sounds fair to me. I oppose discrimination against gays and lesbians and am convinced that heterosexual adultery is a far greater danger to the institution of marriage than homosexuality will ever be. So you idiots need to do your homework and quit listening to your stupid blasphemous preachers who your feeble little minds to join their personal hate army against humanity, because they themselves (just like you) intend to impart feeble minded and deranged values onto everyone else. Be warned, your selfishness, hatefulness, blasphemous, and religious vanity will face its truth in righteousness. Now you GET OVER IT … because being gay will NEVER go away you pigs.

[tina]

attention white gay community if you are that upset at the blacks and hispanics that voted yes, please go an protest in their communities on sundays at their place of worship. There are plenty of catholic, mosques, and baptist churces in east l.a , compton , oakland and other urban areas. Warning though sister odelles purse will feel real heavy on your head. lol First of all never been impressed with the liberals some can be just as racist than ultra consertatives. Liberal whites usuall use blacks for their own agenda. and god forbid we don't go along with their program. atleast reagan lovers are honest about how they feel about us ignorant low life blacks. And for the record not to many blacks are going to loose sleep over your lack of support. So have a nice life. peace

[Cody Kinsey]

Hey Subway Train!!

Was that English? If so, you should work on writing coherent sentences. I would love to argue with what you said, but most of it didn't make any sense. I think uneducated people should be banned from marrying.

I am seriously starting to wish I hadn't voted for Obama. I will think twice before doing so again in 2012, and the bigtory shown by so many prejudiced black people will be the main reason why.

[Ronaldo]

We woted for prop 8, and will wote again and again, if it would be necessary. No same sex marriage would be ever legal at California. No court, supervizors, politicians and lobbyists would stop our fight against this issue. Magority will win.

[Subway Train]

What part of this that gays don't understand?
Is is that my skin color is dark (can hide) or I prefer fried chicken to bake chicken (a preference).

We blacks were discriminated against because of our SKIN COLOR not because we CHOOSE to eat fried chicken or baked. When sitting in a waiting room you look across the room and see me, you see a black person, you know not if I'm gay or straight.

You gays need to stop trying to make your fight the same as blacks! Maybe if you gays would paint yourself as the rainbow then maybe you will understand. Oh! Forgot just that fast you too can't change your skin color!

[shardy65]

In response to these two comments:

"The vast majority of the African-American community recognizes this: the Black Civil Rights movement and the gay rights movement are not the same."

-That's right they're not the same today. Today, Gays and lesbians had people vote their rights away. Yesteryear, the Supreme Court and the Legislature gave african-americans their rights. I don't mean to sound harsh, but where would the status of the african-american population be if "the people" were voting on whether they should be afforded equality back in the early 1960's?.

"Maybe African-Americans cared more about their votes counting. They voted for Prop 22, and probably didn't like a court throwing out their votes."

-Maybe the racists in America back in the 60's never got their chance to vote on equal/civil rights for african-americans. Do you think we'd still have an Obama presidency then?

[John O'Conner]

Marriage is not a right. It is a privilege. Even if it were a right, our laws restrict rights all the time. One cannot marry his own mother; one cannot marry more than one wife; one can't marry a sister --- these are some basic restrictions that make a healthy population of voting citizens.

Even under prop 8, everyone still has the "right" to marry. Anyone can marry, but you can't marry just anyone you please.

[larrybird]

The vast majority of the African-American community recognizes this: the Black Civil Rights movement and the gay rights movement are not the same.

[Thelea Draganic]

I am upset about this erroneous finger pointing at African-Americans regarding Proposition 8. Why are you so quick to believe whatever you hear? If someone told me 70 percent of gay people voted against Obama my first thought would be, excuse me Jesus, that is crap! I don't believe it! This political year was fraught with right wing lies. Bear that in mind.

"Religious organizations that support Proposition 8 include the Roman Catholic Church], Knights of Columbus, Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) a group of Evangelical Christians led by Jim Garlow and Miles McPherson, American Family Association, Focus on the Family[and the National Organization for Marriage Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, California's largest, has also endorsed the measure. The Bishops of the California Catholic Conference released a statement supporting the proposition. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) has publicly supported the proposition and encouraged their membership to support it, by asking its members to donate money and volunteer time. The First Presidency of the church announced its support for Proposition 8 in a letter read in every congregation. Latter-day Saints have provided a significant source for financial donations in support of the proposition, both inside and outside the State of California. About 45% of out-of-state contributions to Protect Marriage.com has come from Utah, over three times more than any other state."

Still, even though gays were fighting to preserve a basic right, it was the anti-equality side in California that seemed to have the most fervor. A symbolic low point for the gay side came on Oct. 13, when the Sacramento Bee ran a remarkable story about Rick and Pam Patterson, a Mormon couple of modest means - he drives a 10-year-old Honda Civic, she raises their five boys - who had withdrawn $50,000 from their savings account and given it to the pro-8 campaign. "It was a decision we made very prayerfully," Pam Patterson, 48, told the Bee's Jennifer Garza. "Was it an easy decision? No. But it was a clear decision, one that had so much potential to benefit our children and their children.”

This is your real enemy. Don't trust exit polls. I think they are pitting one group against the other. African-Americans are less than 7% of the state population, do the math. Many more Whites voted and they put this over, not Blacks. What are the total numbers of each group that voted. Someone dug into the data and found that we're just now learning is that the exit poll was based on less than 2,300 people. If you take into account that blacks in California only make up about 6.2%, we get roughly 224 blacks who were polled. 224 blacks to blame an entire race! The original percentage of black voters who were expected to say yes to Prop 8 was only around 52-58%. Anytime you get a vote that much higher over the projected vote, something went wrong.

I know someone who watches C-Span and they said most Blacks did not even address the question at all. And they do not have the money to fund a tens of millions of dollars Proposition 8 campaign. Note that they also targeted affirmative action for eradication in another state.

I cannot believe that these groups get a pass and Blacks are being targeted for the blame game. Rather than be upset at the phantom African-American menace, fight like hell. There is no right wing black conspiracy against gay Americans. When you tried to align your struggle with that of Blacks you inherited their enemies. These same enemies are now trying to pit one against the other because they fear the combined numbers of both.

How many gay activists supported the civil rights movement in the 1960’s? Then how do you automatically expect support in return? Have you asked Blacks to support you or did you just assume?

No one gave Obama anything and they will not give gays anything either. Obama stands on the shoulders of a lot of brave people who gave their lives for him to stand on that podium last night.

Never trust exits polls because in all my years of life, no one has ever been seen at a polling place asking anyone anything when they left.

Don't fall for the lies.

[Abu Goatee]

Allan (and many others): "To all the people of faith that voted yes, what if I was to say to you that G-d created me as I am"...

G-d created pedophiles too. Now obviously (it should go without saying, but some people are quick to assume the worst about others, and even quicker to take offense), there is a big difference between the two. I couldn't care less what two same-sex consenting adults do, while I wouldn't particularly mind if pedophiles who victimize children were castrated. But the argument that "G-d created me as I am, and thus He and his followers must accept the actions I do that follow from my nature" applies equally for both.

The bottom line is that according to most mainstream churches/synagogues/mosques (and others, cf Dalai Lama) G-d forbids homosexual sex. It would be quite reasonable for you to be pissed off at such a G-d, but those religions don't see G-d as a twinkly-eyed Santa Claus or an flower-child hippie. He is ineffable.

Your argument boils down to either
1. "I believe in the concept of sin, but I should be allowed to sin, because the sinful act flows from my (G-d-created) nature." In rebuttal, see pedophilia.
2. "I do not believe that G-d would forbid an act that flows from my nature, therefore anybody who believes such an act is a sin is mistaken." You are welcome to believe that, but by aiming this argument at others, you are moving from asking people to recognize your civil rights / grant you special accommodation, and instead asking them to renounce their religious beliefs. Good luck with that.

[JoeBlow]

The religious right are the people who created, funded, and campaigned for Prop. 8. Blaming African-Americans for passing Prop. 8 is very deceitful.

Stop pitting African-Americans against homosexuals.

[saddenedvoter]

I'm a black woman who voted no on proposition 8. I'm saddened that 70% of African Americans who responded to the exit poll reported on voted yes on 8. I don't know how well exit polls represent the actual vote, but it is sad nonetheless.

The comments on this board have been eye-opening. I see a large number of white gays comfortable with openly expressing bigotry and condescension towards blacks; neatly ignoring the fact that there are black gays in the rush to scapegoat. Learn from Obama's campaign - target the groups you want to support you and learn to appeal to them using language they understand. You can't go wrong that way.
I'd suggest two angles: (1) creatively presenting the marriage issue as a civil rights issue in a way that even those with only a grade school education can understand , and (2) explaining to people that they don't want a theocracy in effect in California: just as I shouldn't be governed based on the rules from someone's bible, Christians shouldn't be governed by the rules of Hinduism, Mormonism, Islam, or whatever religion might end up having a majority of voters in a state. There is a reason why we have separation of church and state.

I also feel that the L.A. Times did a disservice with this article, by focusing on one exit poll without giving any context as to how this relates to the actual vote, and by ignoring the fact that blacks make up only 10% of voters in California. The only reason to use the headline you did is to encourage scapegoating. It worked. Thanks for making every black person who voted no on proposition 8 somehow suspect in the rush to judgment.

[Abu Goatee]

Open question for everyone: While ambivalent about SSM, I personally don't buy the "it weakens traditional marriage" argument. I (single het, btw) have sympathy for those who claim that this argument is just a cover for those who would oppose it anyway. That said, how do we reconcile this claim with the great voting disparity between married and unmarried people?

[Abu Goatee]

Jax: "As a Canadian I am blown away that your neighbour can decide your human rights for you."

As a fellow Canadian, do allow me to say that you're spouting nonsense. I (and a presumably large majority of Californians) believe that same-sex couples deserve full human rights no less than anyone. They can do anything, including sleep and live with each other. I (and...) fully support civil partnerships that would give them all the rights associated with marriage. But having a >recognizedright< to that; your neighbours are the only ones who can decide to grant it.

Andrew: "Uneducated, easily swayed voters should not be allowed to put propositions on the ballot."

Reading about "uneducated, easily swayed voters," I thought, for a moment, that I was on one of the right-wing blogs lamenting the election results.

[Dane]

One more question I have for everyone?

Why do we argue that homosexuality is or is not a choice when we discuss marriage rights?
It does NOT matter if being gay is a choice or not in order to deserve equal rights.

It is Against the Law to discriminate on the basis of religion, and what is religion?
Religion is a CHOICE that is protected. So if something is a choice, it does NOT disqualify itself from being a civil right. So please STOP using "gay by choice" as an excuse to deny my rights. Your religious belief is a protected right of choice too.
So many glass houses!

Homosexuals are crying out for equal rights. Blacks sang that song before. Women know that freedom song too.
If a group of individuals are crying out for civil liberties, it is a SURE indicator that injustice is taking place. America has a mandate to answer the cry for "LIBERTY and JUSTICE for ALL"..

Government needs to stop blurring the lines between religious terms and legal tax status. True Christians need to discern this and pray about it. Ask Jesus why straight couples' taxes and health insurance premiums are lower than ours.
Also ask Him about that scripture concerning the Rapture. You know the one about "...two men will be lying in a bed, one will be taken, the other left." He was talking about the future, was He not? Could it be that God loves His gay children too OR at least 1 out of 2 of them?

And by the way, Jesus didn't busy Himself legislating against the prostitutes and tax collectors of His day.
You modern day Pharisees!

He opened His arms to all, but He was crucified by His own Church for His liberal stance on "Sinners".

True religion is this: "...that you act justly, and love mercy, and walk humbly with your God." (Book of Micah)
The rest is just filthy rags.

[Allan]

To all the people of faith that voted yes, what if I was to say to you that G-d created me as I am, gay and that being gay is not a choice, anymore that having dark skin is the choice of an African American...Sort of undercuts your whole argument, and thus the reason that the religious community always pushes this as a choice, agenda, etc..To all the heterosexuals out there, please define for me that moment in time when you decided to be heterosexual? Perhaps I missed something...

[Not an Obama lemming]

Shame on the Black+ Hispanic community.
I'm curious how many black voters on the "Down Low" voted for Prop. 8. That would be an interesting poll. I suspect the percentage was high.

[Danny L]

And how many of the 70% have friends or family members who are gay. Blacks have gay relationships too. Some say it is black bigotry that passed Prop 8. I say it is black denial.

[Dane]

Blacks were denied their rights and the some bad people misused the Bible against them too.

I am sure that the scripture " Slaves, obey your masters..." was used plenty of times as a justification that slavery was okay. But we ALL know slavery IS NOT okay.
Civil rights are civil rights. Gays deserve the exact same protections as straight people in America.
Gays getting married does NOT defile marriage, Divorce does. And I don't see anyone quoting Jesus about that topic!

If the Church and the State are separate, yet share the same powers of GRANTING marriage, one civil, the other religious: then we MUST allow for civil marriage. The Church shall not dictate to the Government nor vice versa.
The Church should never be required to marry gays, True! BUT the State still must be impartial when it comes to civil rights.

The fact is that our government grants favor to people who are married, but will not grant marriage to some because of religious reasons. Civil power is being wielded by misguided religious beliefs. Freedom should not be preferential.

If the government will not recognize marriage for everyone, then it should NOT recognize marriage for anyone!

[B.D.]

Obviously the blacks and Latinos changed the outcome: The religious right who hyped Prop 8 would STILL have hyped it EVEN IF OBAMA HAD NOT BEEN RUNNING. The "extra" black and Latino voters only voted BECAUSE OBAMA WAS RUNNING. So they and Obama definitely tipped things. To pass the blame is to ignore that blatant reality.

[reluctantcougar]

In my very humble opinion, the angry comments and emotion directed toward the Black (and Latino to some extent) community herein is misguided. I see the future and the future is the Mormons (United Church of Latter Day Saints). Face it, the Mormons did a better job than the Gay and Lesbian community at reaching the demographic groups blamed for passage of Prop 8, via money and time spent in Black and Latino communities and churches.

I get the sense that the G&L community did not do enough outreach or campaigning in the communities that presented the most resistance to their cause. The Obama campaign did not turn the formerly Red states of PA, Ohio, Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico Blue by accident. Furthermore, since the election of Obama, the Republican Party is desperately looking back in hindsight at where it went wrong and how to regroup and present itself in 2012. The Republicans understand that preaching to the choir (via Sarah Palin) was simply not enough to keep them in power (i'ts the economy, stupid and Bush/Cheney, Iraq and so on...). Having zero strategy plus poor management/planning plus lack of foresight equaled defeat. Raw unbridled emotion, although expressive of our humanity, can cloud sound judgment, logic and clarity of focus. Also, be advised that Mitt Romney may be the face of the Repubs in 2012. You will face even greater challenges should he succeed.

I do not live in Cali so what do I know anyway!? I live in New Jersey and work in a Manhattan (10 minutes away) in a corporate law firm (lowly temp attorney) that is well represented by Gays and Lesbians. I am heterosexual, female, Black, single with no kids and oh yeah--Roman Catholic and a Democrat. I also really like Spin class. Based on all of this, can you, in the words of the eloquent Rachel Maddow, "talk me down?"

[North Carolinian]

Religious sacraments such as marriage should have no standing in our secular society. The State should only get involved in legal contracts tailored to various needs. One of more of these could deal with household sharing, taxation, power of attorney, estate sharing, children responsibility, social security, etc. Marriage as a religious sacrament should gain no sanction in civil contexts. State-sponsored contracts should be blind to sexual orientation or sex of the individuals involved. Religious contracts would not be the province of the State. This solves everyone's problem.

[B.D.]

I do find this all so ironic. I am a white, straight California male who voted FOR McCain and did NOT vote for Prop 8. What was the title of Michael Moore's bestseller again????

[chris]

So much for coalition building.

Gays will have an opportunity to repay this insult from the African American community as more anti-affirmative action initiatives find their way onto state ballots in the future. Nebraska joined several other states in banning affirmative action. The same ban was narrowly defeated in Colorado.

I bet if it were put to a vote today, the ban in Colorado would pass - I guarantee you that white gays would vote FOR the ban in droves.

I look for more of these anti-affirmative action initiatives to appear on future ballots, and this gay man is planning to ACTIVELY campaign for the ban. Four states currently ban affirmative action. Let's work together to get the number up to 50. Affirmative action does not help White or Asian gays, so there's no reason for us to support this tired old policy that does nothing except promote mediocrity at the expense of competence and excellence.

[Ian]

As someone who has spent a great deal of time studying history, I have to say this -

@Drew and all the rest of you who continue to use the "marriage has been 1 man + 1 women throughout all humanity since the beginning of time" argument to prevent gay marriage: THIS IS FACTUALLY COMPLETELY INCORRECT! Marriage is just a word that we apply to concepts of union that are vaguely similar in other cultures. In fact, the vast majority of cultures throughout history practiced some form of polygamy! That is to say, one man, multiple wives. And even in cultures where monogamous marriage was the norm, it in no way whatsoever resembled today's American concept of marriage. In China, for example, concubines were used to produce children when couple could not. And in Europe, since that is the cultural ancestor of the US, marriage was nothing more than a political tool for the upper class, men were generally at least 15 years older than their teen brides, and went through several wives, as many women died in childbirth. The main point of marriage was to produce children (to work and support the family, if you were lower class, and to inherit, if you were upper class) and gain societal connections. My point is that the modern idea of a monogamous marriage based on romantic love similar to the current Western ideal is something that, at the latest, began in the 1600s-1700s. Furthermore, as in those days, marriage meant a woman's complete subservience to the man, our concept of marriage has further changed. I could go on and on in this vein, but basically the idea that marriage is some sacred unchanged concept that has been upheld by humanity throughout history is completely, utterly false, no matter how many times conservatives say it. Blue, above, says that voters were merely reaffirming "the concept of marriage that has been a cornerstone of our society for eons." Well, maybe they thought they were. But they only thought so because they are told that by conservative pundits, who are completely factually wrong in that claim. Yes, there has been some general concept of a formalized sexual union throughout history. But the idea that that concept has always been one man and one woman marrying for romantic love in the way that Americans currently understand it, is just not correct, factually speaking.

[Jay]

@Adam

Today I'm going to choose to be white. Are you going to be a Hispanic today?

"Gay people choose to be gay just as much as you choose your skin to be black."

I choose to be black?!?! I WAS BORN BLACK YOU FREAKIN' IDIOT!!!

I am not going to waste my time with you, or the other stupid people
on this board, because it is a WASTE OF MY PRECIOUS TIME.

LONG LIVE PROP 8!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JAY OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Britton]

First, the civil rights movement is not the same as the gay and lesbian rights movement. not to say that there is anything wrong with the gay and lesbian movement(because i think it is valid), but to equate it with the civil rights movement is a little ludacris. while i personally do not believe in gay marriage, i don't think it should've been put up to a vote by the population. If all the civil rights laws were put up to public votes, i'm sure many of them would never have been passed into law. often times progression HAS to be mandated before the masses will accept it. i also do not believe it should be banned by the government either. if they want to get married, they should be able to get married. doesn't mean i agree with it, but it's not my life.

secondly, i think this is put up to a public vote purposely because the majortiy of people that are indifferent to the issue won't vote on it, and since the demographic of the gay community is much smaller then the anti-gay marriage, they will never have enough votes to defeat any measure such as proposition 8.

lastly, i feel saddened that the vast majortiy of the posters on this board are blaming the black community(i am black) for prop 8 being passed into law. blacks make up only 6.9 percent of a population of over 38 million. to contrast that, hispanics make up over 35%, whites make up around 58%. so in actuality, if 100% of blacks in california voted yes on the proposition, it would be still be less then if only 1/3 of hispanics and whites had voted for the prop. also if 100% of the black voters voted no on this measure, it still would have passed.
the only thing that this "70% of blacks voting for the measure" shows is that there is still large stigma in our community about homosexuality. but plain and simple the black vote is NOT the reason that this measure passed. just as obama was not elected strictly on the black vote. for any politician, bill, measure, proposition to pass, it HAS to have a majority of the white vote(or hispanic in places such as california, texas, arizona, etc.) to be successfull. posters, please stop blaming the black community for the passing of the proposition. it's a false claim.

[Tanya]

As an African-American lesbian, I am outraged by all the ignorant, straight African Americans that voted for this Proposition. No, it was not just blacks. I am peeved at all ignorant, straight people that voted for this proposition. It is not well covered in the news that issues of sexuality does not get a lot of dialogue in the black community or its churches. I think white gays and lesbians were surprised because of their lack of understanding of the influence of religion on the black community as a whole. It is NOT a progressive religious community, not withstanding all the popular footage of Dr. Martin Luther King's surmons.

All issues of oppression are a civil rights issue. One does not get to choose who to protect from discrimination. I think a lot of African-Americans did not see this as a civil rights issue because, frankly, they do not see gays and lesbians as rightous, moral people deserving of the same God's love as they are. When gays and lesbians are referenced in black churches, in my experience, it is with a condescending tone as if we were some freakish side show that just deserve to be 'prayed for.' Obviously, we would be 'prayed for' because we are gay and lesbian. So, the underlying assumption is that something is wrong with you and the bible is used as back-up.

Of course, we all know the bible has been used for back-up for slavery, oppression of women, and other forms of oppression that are no longer tolerated. But that is almost never discussed at the black churces I've attended. Its a shame really. But, hopefully, what is happening now will expose the ugliness of homophobia within the black church, and other churches. It is not now, nor has it ever been, right to hide behind the bible as a pretext for oppression and intolerance. I wonder if enough theologians of color will have the courage and conviction to step up to the plate on this issue. Or will they dangerously approve seperate treatment of a minority group they do not understand because it is the popular sentiment?

[Diepiriye S. Kuk-Siemons]

When the Fairness Campaign advocating for local ordinances to protect queer people hate crimes against rose in my hometown, Black evangelicals were the loudest voices against us. And as a queer man of color, the racism within gay communities- ranging from sheer ignorance and typical America hatred/fear to exoticism- is just as painful. Black people understand the language of Civil Rights, and when I think of Pro 8, I serious wonder how well queers of color were active in grass roots leadership and efforts to educate voters, who, upon hearing this framed from our perspective, may have never voted this way! Get it! We're so tired of the assimilationist tune in gay ghettos, and THAT's at least part of the issue here.

[No Obama for 2012]

We gave all our best to support Barack Obama but his AA surrogates voted heavily for support of Prop 8, trust me I will not ever vote for Obama unless other Democrat or Hillary on the ticket or i will vote Republican now. I hope they realize that we are all people who deserve to be loved and happy as a couple. What a shame for them. Very very disappointed on Obama's surrogate. We will get this overturn soon.

[Verballistic]

This historic vote to reject the concept of gay marriage confirms one deep, abiding principle...that a large majority of black folks do not feel the kindred spirit with the gay rights movement that gay activists have been trying to project on them for many decades!! Most African-Americans believe that homosexuality is a choice, not a biological imperative and therefore do not personally equate the gay rights movement with the civil rights movement that has advanced the cause of those who are black by birth!!

[MJ]

I don't understand why anyone thinks it is alright to put civil rights to a popular vote. Regardless of your beliefs, it IS a question of civil rights when discussing the legal implications of marriage and the myriad benefits/protections.

I wonder where we would be today if we had allowed the civil rights of African Americans to be legislated by popular vote?

[Surprised]

After all of the “change”, “hope”, and “progress” rhetoric from the Obama camp, the support for Proposition 8 is surprising. While I don’t believe that any particular group was responsible for passing the initiative, I am sad to know that 70% of the African American community voted in favor. Given that this is a group has been historically marginalized, one would imagine a more sympathetic position. Ironically, the marriage and out-of-wedlock birth rate statistics for blacks is dismal.

Statistics on Marriage, Divorce, and Living Arrangements

On the whole, Blacks or African Americans (hereafter called Blacks) have lower rates of marriage and marital stability than all other ethnic groups. They also have higher rates of single-headed families than other groups.

* Black males and females are more likely to be unmarried than Whites, Hispanics, or American Indian/Alaskan Natives (AIAN) (42.2% for males, 40.8% for females, compared to 27.5% and 21.2% respectively for Whites, 38.2% and 30.3% for Hispanics, and 35.7% ad 29.9% for AIAN ).(ACS 2002)
* Black individuals are far more likely than Whites and Hispanics to be divorced (in 2002, 9.4% of Black males were divorced, and 13.3% of Black females versus 9.1 % and 11.3% respectively for Whites and 5.9% and 9.3% for Hispanics). (ACS 2002)
* Among married Black individuals, a greater percentage is living apart from their spouses than among married White and AIAN individuals (15.7% for Black males, 24.1% for Black females, versus 5.3% and 6.3% respectively for Whites and 11.1% and 12.8% for AIAN). Only Hispanics have a higher rate of living apart from their spouse than do Blacks – 16.2% for males and 16.9% for females (in many cases this may be due to immigration complications). (ACS 2002)
* Black families are less likely to contain a married couple than all other groups (46.0% versus 81.0%). White families have an 81% chance of containing a married couple, AIAN families have a 67% chance, and Hispanics have a 67.4% chance. (Census 2000)
* Single male-headed families are slightly more likely in Black homes than in White family homes (about 8.5% versus 5.3% for whites.). Hispanics and AIANs have a higher rate of single male headed families (10.3% and 10.4% respectively). (Census 2000)
* Single female-headed families are far more likely in Black homes than in all other groups' homes (45.4% versus 13.7%). By contrast, Whites have a 13.7% rate, AIANs have a 28.8% rate, and Hispanics have a 22.3% rate of single female headed families. (Census 2000)
* Only 44.9% of Black householders in family households live with a spouse. This compares with 80.6% for Whites, 60.1% for AIAN, and 70.2% for Hispanics.

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/healthymarriage/about/aami_marriage_statistics.htm

It’s interesting that this group has such opinions about who should have the right to marry. What happened to change, hope and progress?

Lastly, this argument about teaching children to be gay is ridiculous. I have a child in the Los Angeles public school system and we’re lucky if his teachers mention spelling, math or history. They’re certainly not talking about marriage. People don’t “learn” sexuality anyway, enough with that nonsense!

[Elena Ong]

I'm glad that Asian American Pacific Islanders stood up for equality, and that the majority, 51% of AAPIs, voted to defeat Prop 8!

[letsmoveon]

there are 1,184 federal rights that are forbidden to same-sex couples. these include unalienable civil rights and protections like healthcare, social security, parental rights, taxation etc. there are a measly handful of states that offer the bare minimum rights as of today november 7, 2008. there are gay people who are harassed, discriminated against, intimidated and killed everyday in this country. this is unquestionably a civil rights struggle involving a protected group that has been subjugated and discriminated against for centuries. the hate is insidious. the judiciary and legislature is there to protect over a simple majority, precisely as was done in 1967 banning anti-miscegenation laws. homosexuality exists in almost every animal species innately, including humans. the bible can not reverse this. if homosexuality were a badge, like the color of one's skin, you had better believe people would step up and acknowledge that the current struggles of these people are very akin to those of all other protected groups, including "minority" ethnicities.
progress to the people, we shall all be free eventually

[Amy]

I am a black man and am ashamed to see, but not surprised, that so many blacks do not favor same-sex marriage. Blacks, as a racial minority, have been discriminated against and continue to be in 2008.
------------------------------
You're JOKING? Can't play the race card anymore. That went out the window on November 4, 2008!

[Amy]

I am a black man and am ashamed to see, but not surprised, that so many blacks do not favor same-sex marriage. Blacks, as a racial minority, have been discriminated against and continue to be in 2008.
----------------------
You're JOKING? Can't play the race card anymore!! That went out the window on November 4, 2008!

[Amy]

I am sorry for you that you did not find justice. Think with your brain next time before you vote. I am a republican and if we would have had a gays rights bill in my state I would have voted for you to have some respect and rights. Stop judging people for the party that they belong to. You all were thrown under the bus. It''s really sad that so many of you dranked the kool-aid. You fell for it hook, line and sinker!

[Dana]

I find it ironic that a population that has a 70% out of wedlock birth rate votes that other people who actually want to get married can't. Blacks have decided that that they need someone to be better than. Most Blacks voted yesterday and the overwhelming number of them think that they are the only ones who have ever been discriminated against.

[PoodleSkirt]

Years ago, one of the founders of GLAAD said that to gain political clout, gays had to increase their numbers. He further said that since the percentage of gays in any population has historically remained the same, he felt that recruiting was the only option. He mentioned children, but said that any parent knows how malleable young children are and would probably be less inclined to support gay rights if children were targeted in that way.

Gay marriage became the answer to that problem. If it is legal, there will be no legal way to stop the teaching of it to children. It will be said that it is being taught under the guise of tolerance, but how can you not then teach the sexual component when that is what defines homosexuality.

Think about it. They are already reading The Tale of Two Princes to second-graders in Massachusetts. Does anyone remember reading heterosexual fairy tale love stories in grade school? Of course not. That was what you read at home, not school.

Grade school children should be free to grow up without anyone influencing their sexuality. Let them freely become what they will become. If there was a provision to keep any discussion of homosexual or other sexual issues out of elementary schools, I might change my mind about opposing gay marriage.

Several years ago, a teacher at my son's school decided to show a small group of ten-year-old boys a movie in which high school boys were kissing each other and cross-dressing. It turned out that the teacher was a gay activist who subsequently refused to see the inappropriateness in what he did, saying instead that it was a lesson about tolerance.

I am sorry to say that that incident made me rethink my feelings about gays, and it was that incident which led me to do the research through which I discovered the aforementioned statements made by the GLAAD founder.

There's plenty of time to teach about tolerance and sexuality once children have entered adolescence. For some reason, this is not good enough for the gay community. You might want to ask yourself why.

[Ericka]

The election of Obama was bittersweet for me as a gay person. On one hand, he could have probably stopped prop 8 from passing if he through his weight behind supporting it since he surely would have had some influence with the African American voters. I wish that his presidential race did not coincide with prop 8! It's horrible that the rights of gays were trumped in the very same election that the first African American president was elected. Bittersweet irony.

Someone said that a gay white man would come ahead of them on the social ladder. And that may be true, but only if the gay white man was in the closet. I mean, when do you think we will have an openly gay president, ever?!?! The fact that gay people must stay in the closet to not be discriminated against is evidence that homophobia runs deep in our society. As does racism.

Although, I think people are naive if they think that the issue of gay marriage will go away now that people have voted on it twice. Just because a majority of people agree with something does not make it right. People aren't going to go quietly when you take away their rights. Eventually the bigots will realize that they only people affected by the same-sex marriage laws are same-sex couples. Eventually the bigots will get tired of fighting because in reality they have less to loose by same-sex marriage being legalized than same-sex couples have to gain. People argue that the entire foundation of society will be ruined if same-sex marriage is legalized. But that won't happen, it's really just about the rights of same sex people. It might be bad news for people who have to feel like they are superior to others, but society will continue on a little bit fairer than it was before.

[Angry Sucker]

Third...and this is an honest question, not snarky...but can someone please explain the difference b/w domestic partnerships and being able to say you're "married" Is it just a semantic difference? Are there other benefits to marriage that DPs do not provide?

Posted by: Bruingrl68 | November 06, 2008 at 08:00 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

There are over 1000 differences, many of them financial and having to do with pensions, immigration, etc. They are real differences. When you vote to discriminate, well ... you vote to discriminate.

"The General Accounting Office in 1997 released a list of 1,049 benefits and protections available to heterosexual married couples. These benefits range from federal benefits, such as survivor benefits through Social Security, sick leave to care for ailing partner, tax breaks, veterans benefits and insurance breaks. They also include things like family discounts, obtaining family insurance through your employer, visiting your spouse in the hospital and making medical decisions if your partner is unable to. Civil Unions protect some of these rights, but not all of them. "

[propHate]

I agree with Alexandra.
You also forgot to mention another lame 'argument' from the prop8 campaigners...about teaching gay marriage at school.
Seriously...i went up to a master degree and never got any class about marriage and divorce.
Anyway..also very surprised that 70% of african americans voted to ban gay marriage...i would have thought that these black civil rights fights which led african americans to marry whomever they want regardless of race consideration would have inspired them...
it really looks like each group fights for its own interests...

Is there any link providing info on what's going to happen next ?

[alexandra]

i love the people who keep throwing out "you need a mother and father to raise a child."

oh really? then should single moms who've been left by deadbeat dads be persecuted? maybe all those black moms on welfare with 8 kids by 8 different dads should shut the eff up before passing judgement on whether two gay men would some how ruin a child by bringing it up in a home filled with love.

honestly, the anti-gay people have so many arguments...and yet none of them actually are valid. sanctity of marriage (oh, yeah, cuz people getting married/divorced and remarried really helps that argument), it takes a mother and a father to raise a child (hmm..yeah, sorry, that argument doesn't work unless you want to ban single parents) and my personal favorite, "god says it's evil" - unless you've had a conversation with this so-called god, who the christ are you to say what "he" thinks? the bible was written by a man. for all we know, it's a work of fiction. the bible says a whole shitload of things that no longer are relevant today - slaves, women's rights, etc, etc.

SERIOUSLY. how in the hell does it affect YOU personally if two gay men, or two gay women, want to get married? how? it's not. are "the gays" coming to your house, trying to "convert" you? doubtful. and as for the whole, "it's a choice" thing - IT'S NOT. just cuz you say it's a choice doesn't mean it is. did you choose to be black? did you choose to be male or female? holy christ, people. go read some books, get an education and stop being soooo ignorant. no wonder the rest of the world looks down upon America. we've got a bunch of crazy morons running around saying stupid things.

[A. Lagos]

Change for the worse: As I said before, Hitler-based analogies indicate you don't have a legitimate counter-argument. See Godwin's Law:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law

[UK]

I'm British and as an outsider watching the Yes on 8 advertisements I felt that particularly with the insidious use of children, this had far more to do with fear and prejudice, than preserving the institution of marriage. (I'm honestly baffled how one person's marriage affects someone else's, but there you go).

But now you have discrimination enshrined in law whereby one section of the commnunity is denied something open to everyone else purely on the grounds that they are different. For those of you who voted yes, is that really the America you want? And where does that stop?

[A. Lagos]

Aaah, the great debate, is homosexuality a matter of pure choice, genetic propensity but chosen, or genetically deterministic?

Assuming that homsexuality is purely genetically determined, here is the future, parents will get the genetic test done on their unborn children, and given that I don't think that any non-homosexual would intentionally choose to bring a homosexual child into this world, then you can expect homosexuality to be treated as Down's, Parkinson's, CF, Tay-Sachs, or any number of other congenital conditions, where parents elect in over 90% of all such cases to terminate their pregnancies. I am against this too, as I said before, I am Catholic and take seriously my church's teachings in all things. It would also lend scientific credence to those who had classified homosexuality as a mental disorder in the DSM, since hey, like mental retardation see, it is a genetic condition. And I feel quite confident that homosexuals would not like this option.

Assuming that homosexuality is developed by genetic propensity and choice, then those parents who get genetic testing done and find out that the gene (or genes) that indicate genetic propensity, and assuming that the parents don't choose to abort there and then (assume at or greater than 90% given the history of other conditions), then they would do anything and everything possible to indoctrinate their children against homosexuality, since even those I know who are liberal hate the thought of having a homosexual child. I am guessing that homosexuals wouldn't like this option.

And the last option, that it is purely a matter of choice. I believe that no man is born perfect, that each is born with imperfections that they are charged to try to overcome. I served my country in peace and war, and along with my physical injuries (which were reasonably severe) also became afflicted with PTSD. I have found since I returned from my service in the Global War on Terror (I hate that term, but be that as it may), that I have become much more prone to irritability, hypervigilance, and have had many more violent thoughts then I did before my combat service. Now, yes, I am disabled, I do receive compensation from the military and the VA for it, but what I choose to do is precisely that, my choice alone. If I choose to give into my impulses, if I am too weak or lazy to control them, then I bear the sole responsibility for what I do.

And God did grant us free will, to do with our lives as we wish. He also has set standards for us to achieve to live in His grace. So yes, while everyone has a different place on the starting line, I do think the rules are the same for all of us. Now given this standard, it makes no difference to me which case is true, living as a homosexual is a choice that people make because, "oh I want to live true to myself". Not all our dreams can come true, we don't always get what we want. So even if people have biologically bases impulses for homosexual behavior (which I will concede is possible since I have not seen evidence to say it is not), to say that I must give into my impulses is stating that I am nothing more than an animal. God gave us choice and the capacity to reason, and that means we can (and should) choose not to give into our impulses and try to overcome them.

[Walter]

Let's stop being divided. I guess it's the census bureau that decides if you have more than 1/8 black in your blood than you are black.

But science should tell us differently. Barack Obama is mixed. His mother was white, and his father was black. That makes him mixed.

Therefore, voters didn't do "blacks" a favor by voting for Obama. He was a mixed candidate.

But black, white, latino, asian, gay, lesbian, straight, etc should have been voting for Obama because he was the better of two candidates.

[E]

Filter the election results by education, and you will see a correlation between those areas with with a high proportion of bachelors degrees and a No on 8 vote, and those areas with a low proportion of bachelors degrees and a yes on 8 vote. This discussion board seems to bear this out.

You don't have to be able to "see" a feature in order for it to be a feature accorded equal rights. Standing in line are two African American men, and two Caucasian men. Which one is mentally handicapped? If you need to be able to "see" the difference, then you must be arguing for the dissolution of rights for the mentally disabled as well.

If reproduction is the heart of marriage, then you must be against heterosexual marriages involving sterile people.

Obviously, the gay struggle in America has been nothing like what African Americans have faced. In fact, not much has. But if something needs to be qualitatively and quantitatively equal to the African American experience in order to be justifiably accorded rights against discrimination, well, then almost nothing else can be protected. I can see that the comparison is insulting. But that does not deny the fact that there can be discrimination to a lesser degree. It's not all or nothing.

7/10 African Americans voting yes on 8 is disturbing. But keep in mind this does mean that thousands of African Americans also voted no on 8. The yes on 8 campaign was smart. Black people are not the reason this was passed. This is not a reason to stop fighting for their causes.

And to Jennifer the PhD, how have you not heard of ad hominem with all of that rational thought of yours?

[Alejandro]

It's a bit screwy that in this state, it takes fewer votes to strip people of a constitutional right than it does to pass a budget. It's kind of like not having a constitution at all.

All the bellyaching about courts throwing out your votes--sorry, but that's what happens when you vote for something which is in flagrant, obvious contradiction of the basis of our law, which is the constitution, not Leviticus. Which is fortunate, because shrimp, though an abomination unto the Lord, are pretty tasty.

So the push for marriage rights til now has been perfectly valid and reasonable, but now a slim majority of Californians have voted, for the moment, to make discrimination a part of the state constitution. Honestly, though I know challenges are being formulated to this absurd propostion, and I agree in principle, I really think we should just hold tight for a while. More legal wrangling to attain fleeting victories will be way less productive than just waiting a few years until the California electorate is finally ready to overturn this bigotry in a resounding, democratic manner.

[CHANGE FOR THE WORSE]

Just because someone states change it does not automatically mean good. Hitler was promoting change for the better, but in fact this was untrue. Many Jews were opressed by the Germans, because Hitler believed that his beliefs were right. People are quick to point the finger because it is partly because of the proof based on statistics. Of course this does not apply to ALL AA, but it does fall under the majority. If you do not believe that it applies to you then you should not be getting so upset over it, if you feel no guilt into why prop 8 has passed. In general, it is funny how most AA just became registered voters to vote for a "so called Black president." If you do not want to be judge by the color of your skin, but of the reflection of your character then why contribute to the stereotypes. If you were given the right to vote previously, before Obama was a running canidate for president, then why not take advantage of that right. Since people see the ignorance of the AA race and how it seems that a majority of blacks contribute to their own stereotype, it makes it easier to point the finger. This is because statistics have shown that the 70% of the yes on prop 8 was that of AA. Now we must ask ourselves, would the statistics have stated the same if Obama was not running for president? Would as many AA be registered to vote? Although I do believe that ignorant people use their religion as an excuse to judge and disriminate on the GLBT community, I do not think that the staggering number of registered AA votes would have been this high in supporting prop 8, given that most AA were 1st time voters just because the race of the presidential candidtate. So do not point fingers stating that the white liberalist is always trying to bring your race down, when clearly AA are contributing to their own negative stereotype. For those who use religion and God as an excuse to discriminate against others, you should be ashamed. Practice what you preech. Godalso stated that you should treat others the way you would like to be treated. In addition, we were all made in the likeness and image of God, so how do you know it is not God's will for people who are from the GLBT community to feel the way they do. They should have equal rights to marry each other on the basis of love, since love has no race, gender, color, etc. Marriage and domestic partnerships are totally different, and do not adhere the same rights. If you are married, then think about how it would make you feel if somebody took your right to marry away and stated that your marriage was no longer valid? And for those of you who say this is not a civil rights issue or a discrimination issue, you must be really uneducated because GLBTs are the minority, just like AA were in during the civil rights movement. GLBT community was supporting the civil rights movement and promoting EQUALITY FOR ALL...NOT EQUALITY FOR JUST ONE RACE...OR EQUALITY ONLY FOR HETEROSEXUALS. As somebody else pointed out, just because children learn about what Hitler did does not mean that they are going to all join the white supremacy. If you are so concerned about your child learning about gay and lesibian marrages because they might turn out gay themselves then that is your own insecurities. But if they are gay does that mean that you would love them any less? or treat them any different? Lastly, for those who have stated that GLBT have not gone through the hardship that AA slaves have gone through. This is totally false. You should research the hate crimes done on GLBTs. It is horrific, just as AA and Jews were subject to torture, GLBT also witnessed these events. They have been tied to fences, burned, murdered, raped, and the list continues. I'm not posting this so people can get mad. I just want people to realize where others stand and why people are so quick to point their fingers for Prop 8 passing.

[Upright]

Gays have the same rights heterosexuals have, and that is the right to marry someone of the opposite sex like everybody else. Gays just want extra rights. According to Prop 8 opponent's argument then why don't we let more then two people marry, siblings marry, parent and child, etc. Every society has to set standards for what is best for a society, or everyone will be crying discrimination and demanding them under the guise of civil rights. It takes an egg and a sperm to create life. Until you can get around that fact, the need to raise children with a mother and the father will always be there. Sons and daughters need the instruction and care of both to mature into productive adults. We've seen the impact of broken and fatherless homes in the black community - poverty, substance abuse, crime, incarceration, and early death. Thankfully blacks got it and voted wisely for Prop 8.

[Michael]

It's sad and perplexing that millions of people who were excited about this election, as a chance to triumph over one form of discrimination, also used it as an opportunity to enshrine another form of it in the state constitution. For those who can't fathom the paralllels between the two, it's telling that Prop. 8 was so heavily backed and funded by the Mormon church, which started with a core belief in the inferiority of black people, and was only shamed out of that stance in the late 70's. But whatever.

I won't let these statistics seduce me into the circle of prejudice and resentment. As a dirt-poor gay guy (yes, there really is such a thing) who did everything I could to help Obama get elected, I am thrilled that he is finally our President. My grandparents would have never voted for a black man, but here I am. Similarly, most of these voters' grandchildren willl not stand for denying gay people their full civil and human rights. Acceptance eventually defeats bigotry, love eventually overcomes hate, it just takes time and patience.

[Travis]

The fact is that there is still substantial bigotry against the LGBT community, as strange and unbelievable as that may seem given the recent news. I find it amazing that civil rights have to be gained so incrementally, but the reason for that and all bigotry is rooted in fear and control. People invoke the Bible, sexuality, and race (among other things) to give themselves a sense of control in their lives. It is an illusion that momentarily makes them feel a sense of security and righteousness. Trouble is, they're fooling themselves.

In the end, justice will be done. Keep up the fight brothers & sisters. Look how long it took for us to elect a black man. The LGBT community has moved very fast in comparison.

[RM and JB]

It is a sad day when the people of California choose to vote for discrimination to be put into our State Constitution. How can the people of California stand by and not be outraged by this discrimination. It is time to stand up and overturn this discriminatory law. Those who chose silence are just as liable for as those who sat idle in 1942 when the 110,000 Americans of Japanese decent were put in internment camps or when interracial couples could not marry. We fail to remember that Alabama was the last state to allow interracial couples to marry in 2000 with an alarming 48 percent of the Alabama population still wanting to ban those loving unions. If gay marriage is repealed, what makes this slippery slope not start the ball rolling for a ban on interracial couples from marring? Will the Americans of African decent then say that the gay issue is not a civil rights issue?

[cbk16]

In addition to religion, this is an issue of education. The Black Community is less educated than the White Community. 49% of White people voted for this anti-Gay initiative in California while 70% of Black voters voted for it. But time is on our side. The ignorant will eventually awaken.

Sometimes those who think they are so educated, end up throwing God out of their lives, and end up with no moral compass to guide them. Just because African Americans don't have as much money to attend Godless institutions such as Berkley and be indoctrinated by them, doesn't mean they cannot think for themselves. Those against Prop 8 blame Christian churches for Prop 8 winning, maybe those who who are against normal marriage have been indoctrinated by their institutions and the media they choose to listen too.

[Marlon]

As a black man I am saddened, but not surprised by the majority of black people who voted "yes". I voted no and in fact do equate our civil rights struggle with the struggle of gays to be fully recognized citizens. What I am surprised by is that the gay commulnity didn't recognize this political threat to something so important to them and didn't actively pursue the black vote. The gay community needed to have be in local black churches, who seem to have too much sway with the black vote. The gay argument needed to be framed too, as a civil rights argument, directly to black voters. This is politics people, wake up, the deal here is that the black vote is attainable, but just to leave it to fate, is ridiculous. The black community and the black vote has to be courted, not taken for granted, and this thing can be turned around. All the arguments by the gay community to the black community are valid, gays should feel stabbed in the back, but who's short sighted political thinking is to blame. You better believe the opposition was aware of this, they have even stated such on out takes. Gays need to run a better campaign, didn't we all learn this?

[ELI]

To Black Christian shocked that “Apparently one-third of so-called Christians only believe a portion of God's word.” Yes make sure you don’t forget these Biblical words of morality.

Exodus 21:20-21
20 If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, 21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property
Leviticus 25:44
Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves…
Titus 2:9
Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them,
1 Peter 2:18
Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.
1 Corinthians 14:34:
34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
1 Timothy 2:11 -12
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission
12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.

[Spector]

I dont know whether it speaks more to the persistent ignorance of blacks, fundamentalist religious indoctrination in their community, longstanding reverse bigotry by blacks, or some other factor.

Gays voted overwhelmingly for the black presidential candidate.

What a fabulous way to repay the favor -- blacks concurrently, on the same exact ballot then voting to deny others a small slice of the civil rights they have demanded for themselves! MLK would be ashamed. It's now all so tainted.

I want to see what Mr. Obama has to say about this terrible, bigoted decision.

[ThomasG]

Let's not blame blacks and Hispanics for our failure to win allies in their communities. African-African political leaders are some of the staunchest supporters of LGBT rights in this country. Rep. Barney Frank has stated that, not just me. In fact, Frank says African-American representatives in Congress are more supportive than the gay US representatives (if you include the closet Republican reps who vote against themselves)!

We shall all overcome someday. "The moral arch of the universe is long, but in the end it bends toward justice"! But, as Barack says, we have to bend it!

Peace to all!

[daisy]

Classy. And after white people worked tirelessly to get Obama elected. Please, someone, pull all these knives out of my Obama-shirted back.

[Steve]

This is not about discrimination, never has been. This is about preserving the fundamental unit of society for future generations. Our future generations are entitled to the same rights we all enjoy--the presumed right to a father and mother, not just 2 parents of any gender. Gay marriage proponents are looking at this selfishly. They want to be married and damn the consequences to society. They want to pretend that 2 mothers or 2 fathers are equal to a father and mother. This is simply not the case. Fathers and mothers are different, and each are equally important in raising children. Sometimes children are denied this through others' choices or life consequences, but it should never be by state decree.

[Bruingrl68]

First...I'm sorry but it is incredibly RIDICULOUS the implication that ...somehow... voting for Obama was a "favor" to the black community that was to be "paid back" by a no vote on 8.

When did this deal take place and who made it?

It completely invalidates Barack Obama as a candidate to make it seem as if white people did black people a favor by voting for him. We did the world a favor. Barack Obama was not "black people's candidate" He was a canadidate who happened to be black and he has nothing to do with this mess.

The black community owes the gay community nothing. We would hope that people would be empathetic and sympathetic to the plight of other minotity groups but...you are not OWED that empathy or sympathy.

Second...SINCE WHEN are exit polls reliable??

Third...and this is an honest question, not snarky...but can someone please explain the difference b/w domestic partnerships and being able to say you're "married" Is it just a semantic difference? Are there other benefits to marriage that DPs do not provide?

[Richard]

It is laughable to equate being against gay 'marriage' and discrimination. Is it discrimination to be against 2 men marrying 4 women and call that group of 6 'married'?

[Walter]

Based on this article, a number of people backed proposition 8, not just African-Americans. We should keep that in mind and not just single out African-Americans.

In fact, 30% of African-Americans opposed 8. However this fact has not been reflected in the posts here.

As an African-American male I voted against a similar measure (Amendment 2) in Florida.

Nevertheless, there are those that feel upset, disappointed, etc., because they felt that African-Americans should not have backed 8. Perhaps that is a fair sentiment to have, but we have to consider the "diversity" within every group of people.

Within the African-American community (as in other communities) there are a variety of viewpoints. Some African-Americans are Republicans, Democrats, Independents. Most voted for Obama. But some didn't. Some are some for gun rights. While some are against it. Some are for abortion. Some are against it.

My point is that even African-Americans themselves can't assume that another African-American will share their viewpoint (See Ward Connerly, Clarence Thomas, Michael Steele to name a few). Instaed we have to actively court and seek their support.

How many in the gay community supported Proposition 209?

I think it's fair to say that some did. I opposed Proposition 209. But the fact that some in the gay community supported Propsition 209 did not move me to no longer support those in the gay community. As I stated above, I voted against Amendment 2 in Florida.

The lesson we should take from this is that we all need to use outreach and education to get the support of the groups that we expect to support us.

[cbk16]

Most Christians believe Gay Marriage is wrong, however this does not equal hate, most Christians do not hate Gay's, they believe the definition of Marriage should not change. Having a social experiment where a child is raised without a mother is hate, not giving a child what history has shows works (a mother and father as parents) is hate.

[Dalmond]

For the record, as an African American Christian I see irony that my own community voted monolithically for Senator Barrack Obama then voted against Prop 8. In good conscience I could not support either one. The fact that the President elect stands for the perpertuation of the prenatal lynching of Black babies within the womb is just one of many issues that would not allow me to support the man.

The generation of abolitionists (Harriet Tubman, Sojourner Truth, Frederick Douglass, Wilberforce) and the millions of Americans who were aborted will one day rise up and testify against this generation. May God open the eyes of the elect who still slumber. He who has an ear to hear let them hear.

[Annoyed with ignorance]

I think the first thing you all need to do is RE-read the article. It does not "blame" the outcome on minorities. It is simply stating a fact that 7 out 10 African-American voters backed Prop 8. The real question though is how many total African Americans turned out compared to white voters?

Secondly, those who support Prop 8 and throw the Bible around need to remember that the Bible was written by man. Not by God. It was these men who interpreted what they "experienced" and wrote it all down. Don't you think that over ALL of this time that things would change? Like it was stated earlier the Bible says that one cannot wear clothing of two materials, do we still follow that? The Constitution over the years has evolved to fit in with the current times, and some of you need to accept this, it will evolve to include same sex marriages.

Thirdly, how does same sex marriage, affect the religious? Are they coming to your house and knocking on your door trying to recruit you? No. They are two consenting people who want to devote their lives to each other. I wouldn't be surprised if the gay marriage statistics are better in terms of success rate that straight marriages. Also, how many marriages produce children? Does EVERYONE get married to procreate? Is that a requirement? Should that be a requirement? Don't we have enough people in this world? Marriage does not mean what it used to when this country was built. Marriage is only about procreating. In this day and age, marriage is about the union of two people who have certain rights to each other that a civil union does not allow. The marriage right protects the spouse, if for example, the other spouse has died.

This country was founded on having the division of church and state. How does a measure that seems to be backed by the MORMONS (who condone polygamy) get on the ballot? How is this separation of church and state?

This whole issue is not about church goers being bad, if you want to believe in something that's fine. If your "book of God/Bible" says being gay is wrong that let that be wrong for YOU who believe. Don't impose what you religious beliefs are on everyone else.

[trai_dep]

How ironic that an out-of-state church, infamous for discriminating against Blacks, and who followed such bizarre marriage practices that they had to flee polite society until they founded their own state, so effectively taught minorities how to discriminate against other minorities. Whose polygamous teachings, by the way, are justified by Bible verse. Divide and conquer, divide and conquer.

[Lindsey]

It is because being homosexual is a choice, it is not a civil right. There is no "gay gene" , it's a matter of sexual preference. You cannot compare being homosexual with someone who is born of "color".

[Jeray Goins]

These types of numbers show that our community still has a long way to go and a lot of growing to do. Until we break free from the stronghold of the black church our views will continue to be overwhelmingly myopic.

[Very simple]

Ironic that the Mormon and Catholic churches, two organizations renowned for polygamy and child molestation, would push so hard on this. I propose a ban on Mormon and Catholic marriages next and stripping both churches of their tax-exempt status immediately.

[jON]

blacks lack the education to understand the parallels of their fight and the gays fight for equality.. much like the people that live in the backwoods. They refer to an adults version of Santa Claus as their basis for hate

[brad]

For those equating race with adapting the homosexual lifestyle:

Ametican Psych Association: "Most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors."

National Association for Research and Therepy of Homosexuality: "There is no such thing as a "gay gene" and there is no evidence to support the idea that homosexuality is simply genetic. However, biological influences may indeed influence some people toward homosexuality; recent studies point to prenatal-hormonal influences, especially in men, that result in a low-masculinized brain; also, there may be genetic factors in some people -- both of which would affect gender identity, and therefore sexual orientation. But none of these factors mean that homosexuality is normal and a part of human design, or that it is inevitable in such people, or that it is unchangeable.
Numerous examples exist of people who have successfully modified their sexual behavior, identity, and arousal or fantasies. "

[Rich Swanson]

The reference to "Gay" marriage is the typical liberal twisting of words. Only liars who don't want to admit what they are talking about refer to homosexuals as "Gay". Once upon a time, the institution of marriage was the union of one man with one woman for one lifetime. The liberals began attacking the institution of marriage with "no fault" divorce. Same sex marriage is just the next step in the destruction of the institution of marriage.

[SickofThis]

It would now be completely understandable (and arguably justified) for gays and lesbians to support removal of all affirmative action programs and race-based policies/incentives, and to swing far to the right on immigration issues, including throwing illegals out of this country. I say this as a gay man. And I will now vote that way on those two issues.

[Garick]

I'm amazed at the audacity of the gay community to try to impose their will on the people. Marriage is defined as one man and one woman. This is a religious and historical definition, yet the gay community wants to change it. If it were changed, pretty soon you would have other challenges like it should also include one man and two women or vice versa. The idealogy is that gay people want schools to teach children that being gay is totally exceptable and an option. If your gay that's your choice, whether it is biological or not. Don't try to teach others that maybe they should be gay too when they are not! A simple solution is to afford gay people all the same rights so that we are equal in that respect. Call it what ever name you want, just don't call it marriage. But no, they want more people to be gay by imposing their will on the people. Having said all this, my best friend and my uncle are gay. So if you think I don't understand...your completely wrong. I do. But I don't want the gay agenda to be pushed on my kids to make them think it might be cool or completely acceptable to go out and be gay when that is not who they truly are. If this was just about equality, they would have won by now.

[rick]

i am so sorry i voted for obama

[alexandra]

oh and also? gay is NOT a choice - who the hell would "choose" to be gay, given the outright prejudices? seriously, let your pea-sized brains stew over that for a moment.

and as for being a sin - good god, that's laughable. how many sins do you god-fearing christians commit on a daily basis? cheating, gambling, lying, sleeping with someone else's spouse, having a child out of wedlock? that's what gets me. if the black community (and latin community) thinks it's okay that they can have kids with multiple partners...kids they can't support themselves (that *I* have to support with my taxes), then why the f*ck can't a gay couple get married and raise children? unless you're perfect, you have no right to stay how i should live my life.

separation of church and state, people. the bible should have no part in decisions about this matter. you can't pick and choose parts of the bible to believe in - sure, you believe homosexuality is a sin, but meh, all those parts about owning slaves...well, we'll just pass on over that. either you believe it all and follow it thusly, or realize that the bible is not the end all/be all. or are you too stupid to understand my logic?

[Mike]

There is no issue of discrimination here. The privacy between two consenting adults is beyond the realm of the state and is protected by the constitution. But forcing the state, and society in general, to modify an institution such as marriage, is an excess, and a lack of common sense.
The union between man and woman is not a positivist invention of modern society, but rather a recognition of the natural composition of its basic building block. A stable family is not so much needed by the marrying couple for survival and development, as it is the need of the offspring they raise. Children need a natural, stable environment for a healthy development. Negating the perennial laws of nature in this sense, is like intending that a river flow from the sea to the mountain.The laws of nature should be cared for and respected, just as we care for the environment in many other ways.
The right of children to be educated in a natural family should be the first and foremost priority. Adults should behave as such, which is selflessly putting the needs of children first, instead of capriciously striving to satisfy their whims like adolescents.

[concerned mom]

"Concerned Mom in SF:
Your ignorance is unenlightening."

Dear Jeff,

Sorry you see that my view of a personal experience with a public California school in the SF bay area was "unenlightening" but if it had been ANY other type of ideology or religion being forced on my children I would have cried foul too. I don't want my children indoctrinated by ANY form of ideology, morality, philosophy, or religion that runs counter to our family's personal choices, traditions and beliefs. Academics and ethics are all that are required for public education.The academic standards in California public education continue to slip while promotion of various ideologies take center stage. Critical thinking is no longer taught, only blind acceptance of what the state wants children to believe. The effect of this type of education is that many younger Californians just parrot what the media tells them is truth. Politically correct jargon strangles free speech and ignorant Californians are too blind to see it.

[Wilson]

During the civil rights movement, so many Jews went down south to help register blacks to vote and fight discrimination...they marched side by side with MLK....when given the chance to do the same, not only did the African American community not return the favor, not only did they fail to learn from those who helped them, not only did they push gay and lesbians to the back of the bus, they actually pushed us under it!

[alexandra]

here's my biggest irritation at those who voted yes. all these religious types talking about how gay is evil, and we must protect the sanctity of marriage, seriously, take a better look at yourselves. now, correct me if i am wrong - but wasn't divorce forbidden in the christian church? and yet, aren't there millions of divorced/remarried christians in the world? so, essentially, all you bible-toting christians are ruining the "sanctity" of marriage with your rampant divorce. why do you care so much how other people live their lives? why not concern yourself...with YOURSELF and allow others the happiness to be who they are. because otherwise, you're going to have to start living the bible a little more seriously - forget your divorces, forget having a million kids and then living on welfare - cuz isn't that going against the word of the so-called god? he who cast the first stone and all...(nevermind that religion is a sham and the bible is a piece of literature. get a grip, people.)

i'm shocked prop 8 passed in california. i thought there were more intelligent people in california. clearly i was wrong.

[Stan Risdon]

Ex Post Facto? Equal Rights? Right to Contract? Privileges & Immunities? Full Faith & Credit?

One suspects this entire movement (banning gay marriage) is still born. But I despair of ever separating Church and Bedroom.

[David]

It was Black bigotry that passed Prop. 8. The facts are the facts. Black voters rose to 10% this years vs. 6% in 2004. 70% of them voted for Prop. 8. White votes, as a whole, were just under 50%, Asians were split, and Latinos were barely over the 50% margin. 10 million votes were cast! Prop. 8 passed by 300k votes. That is about 3%. It was the Black vote that passed this Proposition. Black people should understand about taking rights away from people. It wasn't until 1967 in Lovelace v Virginia that Blacks could freely marry Whites. What if a Proposition came out saying we could own slaves again in the South? Would you vote for that? The bible says, Slaves must obey their masters and that it is alright to have slaves. The bible is NO AUTHORITY when it comes to the rights of people in the world--it was written from a group of people in the Middle East, called Israelites, aka Jews, thousands of years ago. I do not understand how any minority can take away the rights of anyone else. Prejudice is an ugly thing and ugliest of all in those who have been prejudiced against before. It is HYPOCRISY! I am disappointed in Black people. Asians and Latinos and Whites have not had the same discrimination that Black people have had and are merely prejudice, but again they were in the 50% margin. But Blacks should know better.

[Danny]

In the town I grew up in, the same people who didn't like gays also weren't too fond of blacks or other minorities either. The same conservatives who pushed Prop. 8 were probably some of the same ones who pushed to outlaw affirmative action.
Bottom line: If you want people to respect your rights, you better stand up when other people's are endangered.

[Wake up and smell the latte]

When you do something which goes against the Universal Chi, such as cheating, lying, sleep with your mom. and yes trying to marry and have sexual relations with a member of your same sex....the tide of truth turns against you, and you become cast out, cast down, and subject to every bad spirit that befalls man. wether it is homosexual actions or a crying in your crib, because you have learned it brings you attention. (learning to lie)
That being said, the opposing of gay marriage, is society's reaffirmation that we acknowledge the cosmic order of the universe...no rights, no children's benefit, no "blacks should be sypathethic". it just bad for the human race, and bad for the nation..gays know it, straights, thieves, murders know it.

[Gigi]

It's a shame that you would equate choosing to be gay with being born black.

[Adam]

Marriage is about family. A man and woman by the nature of their gender can produce a child by having sex. The child is then raised by his mother and father who each have unique traits to offer the child in their development. Every child has a right to have a relationship with their mother and father.

[rodolfo acuna]

This disappointing. We are going to have to learn that discrimination is discrimination, and that racism toward a group is wrong, just like homophobia is bad. Children in the commercials did not have anything to do with the issue. People just did not like homosexuals. And this is wrong.

[CWE]

I don't live in California but I think the passing of Proposition 8 was wrong. And yes, I'm an African-American hetrosexual male. I'm amazed at the amount of ignorance and lack of empathy there is toward gay people in the black community. A large part of this is that so many black people are indoctrinated in Christian Churches where they are taught homosexuality is wrong. My own personal experiences and history have taught me that Christian people tend to be some of the most narrow minded, and bigoted people on the planet against those that don't share their beliefs. It's seems the more ardent one is about their Christain beliefs the more prejudiced they are toward non-believers.

What the gay community needs to realize is that America is locked in a culture war where Christians are determined to promote their beliefs through government policy and law. The gay community needs to form alliances with other groups that are proponents of the separation of church and state.

I respect the right of people of all religions to worship and believe as they please. After all that right is protected in the Constitution of this country. However Christians need to realize their religion is NOT the official religion of the United States of America. In fact the Constitution explcitly forbids the government from promoting one religion over another.

Gay marriage does NOT threaten the institution of marriage. Gay marriage is not going to stop hetrosexual people from marrying and having children. Since the government sanctions marriage it's a CIVIL RIGHT. The prohibition of marriage of one individual to another based on gender or sexul orientation is the DENIAL OF A CIVIL RIGHT. If religions don't want to sanction gay marriages that's fine but there is no reason that gay couple should be allowed to have civil marriages performed by the government.

As Americans we all need to come to the realizations that HATE AND INTOLERANCE ARE NOT AMERICAN VALUES.