A pre-Prop. 8 rush for the altar in California

As Election Day draws ever nearer and the fight over Prop. 8 keeps heating up, gay couples from throughout the state and the nation are headed for the altar in California to say "I do." Just reading the comments on this blog, where supporters of both sides of the Prop. 8 question passionately argue their positions, shows what an emotional issue same-sex marriage remains.

Most recently, a Catholic priest who revealed he's gay and took a public stand against Prop. 8 paid with his job -- he was removed as pastor of the St. Paul Newman Center, which primarily serves students and faculty at Cal State Fresno.

Prop. 8, if you're not familiar with it, is a ballot initiative to rewrite the California constitution so that same-sex marriage would be illegal. Prop. 8 proponents are winning the fund-raising race, having outspent opponents by $1.2 million.  Here's the AP story:

“Couples are making their plans to come in before November 4 because people are getting a little uneasy,” said San Francisco Clerk-Recorder Karen Hong Lee. “It's too close to call, basically, and it's legal right now, so why wait? Why take the chance and say, 'Let's get married on November 5?'”

Since same-sex marriage became legal in California in mid-June, at least 11,000 couples have exchanged vows statewide, according to the Williams Institute for Sexual Orientation Law and Public Policy, based at UCLA. That's more than the 10,400 gay and lesbian couples who have wed in Massachusetts since gay marriage was legalized there in May 2004, according to the institute.

The demand for same-sex marriage licenses has proven so great in San Francisco that Hong doubled the number of daily reservations her office accepts each day. And she assigned a second marriage commissioner to perform weddings.

Even so, the office is booked solid through Oct. 21 for license appointments and has no more coveted Friday ceremony slots available between now and the election.

California may lead the nation in gay rights, but a new poll suggests growing support for Prop. 8. Opponents of the measure include L.A. Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, who helped open a "No on Prop. 8" headquarters, and actor Brad Pitt and director-producer Steven Spielberg,  who each gave $100,000 contributions to defeat the measure.

Meanwhile, it's still legal to marry the man or woman you love in California, whether you're a man or a woman. They're getting married in the morning -- this morning, if at all possible.

Read the rest of the AP story after the jump.

--Veronique de Turenne

Photo: Bob Carey / Los Angeles Times   

Community activists Davina Kotulski and Molly McKay, who exchanged vows on Sept. 1, have invitations to one or more weddings for every weekend before Election Day, but Kotulski said they would spend their free time working on the campaign to defeat Proposition 8.

    Apprehension over the forthcoming ballot initiative has taken a toll on many couples she knows, said Kotulski, a psychotherapist.

    “In any relationship, there is the pressure of where is this going. Do you commit now? Do you commit later?” she said. “But when you have a very small window of opportunity, it definitely adds increased pressure, and that could break up a couple before they make it to the altar.”

    Although California Attorney General Jerry Brown has said he does not think marriages solemnized through Nov. 4 would become void if the measure passes, gay marriage opponents could try to litigate the matter. So some couples have decided to wait until after the election instead of putting themselves through such uncertainty.

    Another unknown is whether same-sex marriages performed after the election would automatically not be recognized by the state. Allie Schembra, a spokeswoman for the secretary of state, said Proposition 8 would become effective the day after the election if it passes.

    But Hong and other county clerks say that because it usually takes a month for election results to be certified as final, they do not plan to stop issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples until they are directed by the state health department, which oversees marriage records.

    The election has forced Chloe Harris, 28, and Frankie Frankeny, 42, to make a series of compromises. The women would have preferred to have their legal ceremony Dec. 30, the anniversary of the day they married without the government's blessing in Paris two years ago. Mindful of the upcoming vote, they hastily scheduled their nuptials for Oct. 18.

    A little more than two weeks from the big date, the couple still had not contacted everyone they wanted to invite and were just getting around to selecting the caviar and wine for their reception. Then there was the conversation about what they wanted to be called afterward; Harris felt comfortable using wife, while Frankeny did not. They agreed “partner” sounded too antiseptic.

    The owner of the restaurant where their wedding will be held, Traci des Jardin, is a close friend who will be catering at least 14 gay weddings in October. Des Jardin assured Frankeny and Harris that what they jokingly call their “shotgun wedding” would be perfect.

    “We haven't had this privilege before, so something about that alone makes it special,” she said.

Comments

[Holly]

Marriage is about more than just two people who "commit" to each other. Marriage creates families which is the best way for children in our society to grow up. Children require both a mother and a father -- not two mothers or two fathers. Learn more at protectmarriage.com

[Richard]

Proposition 8 in most simplistic terms is whether we as a society accept the act of homosexuality or not. We have many rights for gays and recognize their great role in our society. If prop 8 fails we will be forced to accept homosexuality by mandatory education of our children without parental participation which means 5 year old children will be taught about homosexuality when and how they state sees fit without parental knowledge. Through education consistent over many years, acceptance of the act of homosexuality will be greatly increased. I feel the role of teaching values and sexuality especially with children should have parental involvement. I respect the love gay people share and desire for acceptance; but I cannot give up the right and responsibility to educate and teach my children, especially about precious values, I love my children too much. This Prop is truly about love.

[lee margot]

Holly, so are you going to stop marrying "straight" people who have NO intention of having children? Will marriages be disolved when a man has a vasectomy, or a woman a hystertectomy?After all, they can't have children anymore. your position makes no sense unless you agree with my points.

[Fransisco Orange]

So many articles on how gays are reacting to prop 8. So few on how pro-8 groups are feeling. The Times is totally in the bag against this, how can I trust it to give me objective information anymore? I've never seen a newspaper so out of touch with its community, and that's saying something.

Yes on 8

www.protectmarriage.com

[steve]

The difference between a liberal and a conservative? A liberal thinks "How does X affect me?" A conservative thinks "How does X affect society?" Clearly, a mother and father are best for the raising of children, and are the foundation of solid families - which benefit society as a whole. When someone says "gay marriage doesn't impact my life at all" they are revealing their basic orientation - themselves.

[Kyle]

I am against gay marriages and relationships because of my Christianity. There is no purpose in same sex relationship except to deviate from the natural use of the body for the purpose of perverted desires. I can freely say this because I was a practicing lesbian at one time. I hope California does the right thing. Nothing like Prop 8 would ever be discussed in the great state of Louisiana.

[Mike]

Holly, so are you going to stop marrying "straight" people who have NO intention of having children?

Not all hetrosexuals couples have children but it is this special combination of one man and one women that creates life. Hetrosexuals can produce children but homosexuals never do.

[Henry]

WHAT"S THE BIG DEAL?

whatisprop8.com
whatisprop8.com

[Brendan Dellerba]

Proposition 8 says NOTHING about making schools educate kids about gay marriage or homosexuality and also says NOTHING about churches loosing their tax exemptions. it is one simple line added to the California constitution that could cause harm to millions of Californian's, it says "THAT ONLY MARRIAGE BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMEN IS RECOGNIZED IN CALIFORNIA". That is all the propositions says, the rest is a flat out lie, it says right out on Pg 55 of the California general election booklet, which is sent out to everyone who can vote to help sort through lies and give Californian's straight answer, if you dont believe me look yourself it says right on pg 55. PLEASE let California be a true democracy and a fair state and
VOTE NO ON PROP 8 !!!!!
Help bring joy and fairness to everyone who lives in our great state of California. Join me and millions of others and VOTE NO ON PROP 8

[Liane Marrgo]

NO ON 8. This is a hate measure created and supported by bigots and not anything else. Keep your homophobia out of our lives and quit with the scare tactics. Marriage is a civil right not a HETEROSEXUAL privilege.

www.noonprop8.com EDUCATE YOURSELVES

[Dexter - San Diego, California]

Proposition 8 is discrimination and inequality.

Please help tens of thousands of Californians defeat discrimination and inequality by helping with your vote and give a big, fat NO to Proposition 8 on November 4th. As stated on your official California voting ballot, [Proposition 8 eliminates rights of same-sex couples to marry by changing the California Constitution] to include discrimination, inequality and setting our Golden State ten spaces backwards on progress and the historic issue of Civil Rights in America.

In the honor and tradition of civil rights and equality for African Americans, women and cultural minorities, prohibiting same-sex couples to marry was ruled unconstitutional in June of 2008 on the basis that it discriminated against the civil rights of California citizens. Since then, thousands of our Gay & Lesbian family members, friends, neighbors and colleagues have been able to realize a childhood dream and marry the significant other in their committed relationships.

Those who favor discrimination and banning marriage for our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters have argued many ridiculous points and have even stepped to low levels by resorting to manipulation of children in television ads and outright lies in order to frighten, sway and even intimidate you, the voter, to steal your vote for a terrible and backwards cause. Don't let them make you a fool. Don't believe them!

Your vote is your business and I have always firmly believed that one's vote and decision should have in mind how an issue would impact oneself, loved ones, family, friends and your community. With that said, I challenge you to challenge yourself with these questions:

"Since approval of marriage for gays & lesbians in June '08, has this issue directly hurt me or someone I care about in some way?"

"Will supporting to take away rights under law by banning the right to marry hurt my loved ones, friends and people that I actually know?"

I urge you to think about the impact your vote has and follow your hearts and minds. Challenge those you know who are unsure about their vote on this issue with the same questions I've asked of you. Together, we can defeat discriminatory Proposition 8 on November 4th and together we can defeat and beat back all of the negative that will come to hurt anyone else in the future, whether it be targeted against the black community, people that are white, brown, small, big, male, female, gay or straight. This is the year 2008 and the 21st century and we stand together only to move in one direction; forward.

Join California leaders Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, California State Senators Barbara Boxer and Diane Feinstein. Stand up with the Cities of San Francisco, Los Angeles and San Diego and their Mayors Gavin Newsom, Antonio Villaraigosa and Jerry Sanders respectively, several actors, directors and personalities like Steven Spielberg, Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, Ellen DeGeneres, Jay Leno and socially responsible businesses like Google and YouTube and make Proposition 8 nothing but a memory.

Fight the smears and get facts about Proposition 8 at http://www.noonprop8.com/about

[Ross Archer]

It is far too infrequently noted that our Founders specifically intended that the rights of individuals were determined by reference to a Constitution, rather than ever be the subject to the whims of a popular vote. They established a procedure to amend the Constitution when required, and deliberately set a high bar, well above a majority vote, for such a change. Prop. 8 violates all of this.

In fact, the problem of an unpopular individual or minority being persecuted by a majority was well-understood to the Founders, who came from just such an environment, and who were victims of precisely this kind of populist disapproval. They called it the “tyranny of the majority”.

What Proposition 8 does is illegal. If passed, it cannot stand because it violates the US Constitution's Fourteenth Amendment, as well as the intent of the original Founders, and furthermore violates California's Constitution. A vote for Prop. 8 is a vote against the Constitutional form of government and the rule of law.

If passed, it will cost the state of California a small fortune to defend, at a time when there are far more important priorities than excluding rights from people. It will inevitably wind up in the US Supreme Court case where, all indications are, it will lose, especially because the precedent has already been established as a matter of law that the right of same sex couples to marry exists.

Aside from this, do Californians really want to set a precedent that the rights of people should be subject to popular vote? What is next? Voting that Chinese people can't hold driver's licenses due to a common stereotype? Deciding that Californians of Mexican descent must wear a state-issued “star” to prove they are citizens?

This is not a road that we should even start to go down.

Please do the right thing and vote No on 8. Both fairness and a respect for our system of law demands it.

-- Ross Archer

[Paul]

Soo..If marriage is soooo sacred, why don't we outlaw Divorce? And if it's soooo sacred, why do we allow male/female couples to marry who choose not to have children?? This amendment has nothing to do with love. It's all about biggotry, spreading hate, and forcing a religious based opinion on people.

[Paul]

Why does anyone care what is happening in someone elses home? or bedroom? This country is slowly slipping into a backwards society that the rest of world laughs at. Soon, only parts of war torn Africa or the deeply Muslim law parts of the world will be on par with our way of thinking. Way to go keeping the evil gays from marriage!!!!

[MarriageForAll]

If this is truly abut protecting marriage as a sacred and historical institution why are we not doing more to forbid divorce? Seems the most logical step to me considering the rate of divorce in this country.

To Richard: How would this give up your right to teach your children? I plan on teaching mine what I believe regardless of what they encounter in school. It's what we do as parents, we're not giving anything up.

Allowing a same-sex couple to marry cannot and will not affect my marriage in any way negatively. Nor will it affect my parents marriage of 48 years and my siblings, each married 20+ years respectively.

I will never understand the fear some people have about equality.

[sdd]

holly and orange i think you're the same person. lol. you're so hilarious. i don't know who you are, but i have a hunch that your life must be VERY miserable. correct me if i'm wrong. you're so frustrated about your own life so you're taking out your frustration out on the gays. hope that works for you.

[Ruby Jackson]

Seems everyone gets special 'rights' except unmarried singles without kids who rent. How about a tax break or special visitation rights for unmarried, childless people who don't own a house?

[Dave]

What rights are taken away? This proposition defines marriage, nothing more.
Shame on this country for ever including marriage, thus not keeping the separation of church and state.
I've seen people, both homosexual and heterosexual, living together for many years without being married. Honestly, what does marriage change in their lives from what they are already used to? A simple piece of paper.
My belief has been to refrain from sexual relations until after being married. Any relations of this sort prior to that is considered a sin. Would this mean that now it would not be a sin?
People are afraid of the future intolerances of what will happen if either side wins.

[Julie]

I don't understand why an entire state gets to vote on whether ot not I can get married. I personally don't care for blue hair - do I get to decide whether or not someone should be able to color their hair? Or if that person would be a fit parent? Or if I want MY kids to see someone out in public with blue hair? I agree 110% that the driving argument behind outlawing same-sex marriage is religion-based, but since when did one religion get to dictate everyone else's life. And yes, I'll go there....considering the alarming rate of priests that can't keep their hands off your kids, are these the people you really want to trust on this??

[Sharon]

Please watch this. It's very good and from all 4 political candidates.

All are in favor of not re-defining the definition of marriage. If you want equal rights then add what rights you feel are missing to Domestic Partnership. No one's "hating" it just seems silly to change something when there is already something legal and in place for alternative lifestyles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Hmdcy_lvQ

[Brandon]

This is about so much more than marriage. Proponents of prop 8 are sending a clear message that the way homosexual couples live their lives is offensive and not as valid as heterosexuals. I never asked to be gay- just as they never asked to be straight. I deserve the same rights as any heterosexual. Stop the bigotry and hate.

[Ana]

Congratulations to the newlyweds! If passed, Prop 8 would deprive many Americans of the fundamental right to marry the person they love. Separate but equal is not equal! VOTE NO ON PROP 8!!

[Kellie]

Ana and Julie.....No one is saying you can't be together, but remember that the definition of marriage is a man and a woman. Sorry if you feel that you should fall under that same definition, but you don't. It doesn't have anything to do about rights, you don't fall under that definition! That definition doesn't include same sex. How about you make up a definition that does include that.....oh no need for you to do that there already is, it's called DOMESTIC PARTNERSHIP!!!!!!!! Why is this not good enough? If you need a word that is cute or legitimizes gay marriage then again, come up with a word that defines that. Just like those that live together came up with common law marriage. We understand that, that definition doesn't mean the same as marriage.

[Frank]

I can not in good conscious support a measure to write discrimination into our state constition. I do not think this is what our founding fathers had in mind. Do you?

I am further shocked at the tactics by the religious right in there support of this proposition. What does their supreme being think about the outright lies they are speading the airways?

VOTE NO ON 8 !

[Fairness and Equality]

Kellie.... did you not learn how to share in elementary school?

These people who support Prop 8 are the most self centered people I have ever come across.

Domestic Partnership is not the same....why don't we call your Marriage Domestic Partnership?

I'm tired of these people trying to intimidate gay people!

I will Vote No On Prop 8!

Fairness and Equality!