Two O.C. pastors challenge IRS rules from the pulpit

Two religious leaders from Orange County were among the dozens of pastors across the United States who preached politics from the pulpit on Sunday, hoping to become the basis of an IRS test case on the ban against politicking from the pulpit.

Though they didn't explicitly name candidates' names — except for the Rev. Wiley S. Drake, who asked his Buena Park parishioners to vote for him — the pastors instructed listeners to judge the candidates by the Bible and Christian scripture, and to vote accordingly. 

Our own Bob Pool and My-Thuan Tran attended the services:

Pastor Stephen B. Orman urged those attending his Warner Avenue Baptist Church service in Huntington Beach to use the Bible as a voters' guide and evaluate candidates and issues on the basis of Christian scripture.

The Rev. Wiley S. Drake suggested that those at his First Southern Baptist Church in Buena Park vote for him -- and for his presidential running mate on the American Independent Party ticket, Alan Keyes.

Drake asked his congregation to support the challenge to the federal ban on political campaigning by nonprofit groups.

"I am angry because the government and the IRS and some Christians have taken away the rights of pastors," Drake said to about 45 people at his service. "I have a right to endorse anybody I doggone well please. And if they don't like that, too bad."

While pastors aren't prohibited from political speech-making, doing so can put their tax-exempt status in jeopardy. More details (and a poll) in the full story here.

— Veronique de Turenne

Photo: The Rev. Wiley S. Drake prays with  a parishioner. Credit: Annie Wells / Los Angeles Times

Comments

[captainkona]

These are not men of God. They're political hacks disguised as preachers.
They're in it for the money from jump, the politics is just another way they've found to line their pockets.

Remove their tax exempt status until they learn what it means to be an American.

[Thomas]

Nobody has taken away their "rights".. we've just said if you're going to be political then you're going to pay taxes like everyone else. In reality they should be paying taxes anyways! Imagine the effect these idiot preachers could have on their congregations if they focused on religion as much as they do on politics!

[Daniel]

Jesus was a liberal. If people use what Jesus said as a voters' guide and evaluate candidates and issues on the basis of Christian scripture, they will vote for the Democrats.

[John]

What does O.C. stand for?

[Saint Michael Traveler]

An individual’s political activism and religious activism may be a continuum of self, but a religious organization must limit itself only to religion. “My kingdom is not of this world." Jesus said.

First Amendment right allows me to say whatever I want to say. But would I bee a pastor or Rabi, then could my political concerns be just my politics? Because of my religious position, anything I would share would be conceived as an extension of my religious leadership. This would be unacceptable.

Separation of Church and State only relates to the action of the government and thus it could be argued it would not be applicable to political activism of religious institutions. But, I greatly support our secular government; otherwise we could have been forced to abide by theocratic concepts for the government such as those practiced in Muslim state of Saudi Arabia or Jewish state of Israel.

Should politics be preached from a pulpit? No!

[Lionel B Dyck]

The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution says (in part) "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, ...". This would seem to anyone with any common sense who read it that the Congress and in turn the IRS can not make any law or rule or regulation respecting any establishment of religion. Thus these pastors are correct and the Law preventing them from speaking about politics is unconstitutional.

[BJ McQueary]

Every person in America has the right to freedom of speech. It's the law and I'm sick of hearing those trying to silence anyone. You can believe the wind is God and Hell is where you want to be if you want. You can believe God is in heaven and that's where you want to go. You can say Vote for McCain or Obama, it's our rights and lots of us are sick of you trying to control us. Stop saying what you are saying then too, like for us to be silent. Lady Liberty is not in balance.

[Dan]

The IRS should take away their tax-exempt status, then they can recommend whomever they want.

[oscar]

i agree..just take away their tax exempt status... then they can say whatever they want!

[Sam McFarland]

I am very happy for ministers to share their politics from their pulpits. But if they do, their churches' should be willing to give up their tax-exempt status. That general rule that applies to all organizations -- advocacy for a candidate and tax exemption are mutually exclusive, as they should be in a democracy.

But, in truth, I don't think churches should be tax exempt, anyway. The separation of church and state is a myth as long as the state underwrites religion by exempting it from its rightful share of the tax burden.

[Jerry]

Does O C in the article specify Orange County?
Thanks

[Dave]

If they pay taxes, like I do, they can endorse anyone they want...

[Bo]

What are they whining about? No one is taking away their choices. They can have their tax deferment or they can endorse candidates. It has always been a choice available to them.

They should abide by the agreement they made when they accepted the tax exemption or they should give up their tax endorsement.

What's the problem?

[James]

I dont recall this much talk about tax exempt status when democrats have speeches in churches. Democrats dont want Pastors or the Christian right the ability to speak. I'm glad we have a constitution and the republicans who know what it says. Socialism and darwinianism are the basis for society failure.

[Paul Svec]

I firmly believe that these pastors and their congregations should follow their stated beliefs, if not their conciences, and say and preach whatever they want to in their churches. If that happens to include using their pulpits as politcal podiums, so be it. Just don't ask me to pay for it!

You can't be tax free and ignore the separation of church and state. So take your pick pastors, religion or politics. Let's see if your beliefs are as important as your bank accounts.

[Shripathi Kamath]

Lionel B Dyck , BJ McQueary,

The issue is not one of freedom of speech. Pastors Wiley and co. have the right to exercise their right.

They cannot however receive tax exempt status if they do so against the IRS code.

Just like I have a right to freedom of speech, but I cannot decry my employer according to my work contract and remain employed.

If you do not like an example from the private sector, think of my freedom of speech as I stand outside your house on public streets and yell that you are a narrow minded bigot.

[tedchyn]

Mr. Drake is entitled to endorse anyone he wish. Giving up tax exempt status if you feel so strong about your GOD. You can not have cake and eat it too - remember your Jesus.

[Brian Smith]

This is not a free speech issue. Pastors have a right to say anything they like or endorse anyone they like. However, they also forfeit their right to be a tax exempt organization. They have the choice.

[Mark]

I still don't get how people can say that Jesus was a liberal - I'm not an expert on the bible, but I'm not familiar with any teachings of Jesus that encouraged "the state" or some other government entity to take care of those less fortunate - I thought he said that an INDIVIDUAL should help other INDIVIDUALS - not to give your assests to the government and HOPE the government is going to help. So, am I missing something? Do I have the wrong bible?

[Tom]

They hope in influence the election by getting a “Social Conservative” into office; in doing so they will continue the funding of their churches, hence their growth of power, through the granting of government funds given through the “faith based” initiatives under George Bush. It’s about money and power, and the subjugation of others. How does anyone think these mega churches got so large in the first place? Real estate was sky high yet the size or Rick Warrens Empire just keeps on growing.

[joe]

If this is a issue of paying taxes then there are a bunch of welfare drawing, non tax paying americans that should shut up!

[otis]

uh, not if they are a 501 c3 Organization. They gave away soverienty for tax free status...ooooops!

[Rick]

Lionel - You are correct. The constitution does indeed state that. It DOES NOT, however state, that the government or citizens of the United States must provide a tax break to religious organizations.

I agree with Dan - Pastors can either lose their tax exempt status or shut up.

These pastors have violated their agreement with the government (i.e.; tax code). They SHOULD lose their tax exempt status.

captiankona/Thomas - Nail, head ... need I say more?

[Arwen Evn]

BJ McQuery, No one is attempting to take away these pastor's freedom of speech. They are entitled to endorse anyone they want...from the street corner and in street clothes. But so long as they want tax exemption, they had best not do it while wearing a collar and preaching their Sunday sermon.

Spoiled, selfish brats want to have everything both ways. Mature adults understand that everything's a compromise.

[USAFVeteran]

The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution says (in part) "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, ..."

Well, guess what? Politics isn't religion and religion isn't politics, except when practiced by these scam artists. Taxing pulpit shills who choose to make a living through political speech is entirely constitutional and should remain taxable in all instances. Claiming that pulpit sales pitches for political candidates is part of a "religion" is anti-Christian, although I realize certain other religions would have no problem with adopting "politicking" as part of their liturgy.