Police union vs. Bratton over Special Order 40

A proposal to change the LAPD's controversial policy dealing with undocumented immigrants picked up a powerful ally today, the Los Angeles Police Protective League. The union, which represents more than 9,000 LAPD officers, said it is backing a motion introduced last week by Los Angeles Councilman Dennis Zine that would require officers to check on the immigration status of gang members suspected of being undocumented immigrants -- even if they are not under arrest.

That motion would change LAPD's Special Order 40, which restricts officers' ability to inquire about a person's immigration status. Zine introduced the motion after the parents of slain high school football star Jamiel Shaw Jr., who was allegedly killed by an undocumented immigrant, made an emotional plea before the council to amend Special Order 40. In a statement, league President Tim Sands said:

“Councilman Zine’s motion offers a common-sense approach that will give our officers a needed tool to remove dangerous gang members from the communities they are threatening. This motion will improve and enhance our officers’ ability to provide security in the neighborhoods where hard-working men and women, immigrants or native born, are trying to protect themselves and their families from gang violence.”

This is probably the first time the police union has taken a position on Special Order 40, officials tell The Times' Richard Winton.  Today's announcement pits the union against LAPD Chief William Bratton. The chief has come out strongly against the motion, saying it amounts to "racial profiling." Instead, he proposes providing officers with more info on Special Order 40, which he said is widely misunderstood.

There are plenty of other opinions on this touchy issue. On Sunday, the Times California section will have an entire page devoted to Special Order 40

-- Jesus Sanchez

Comments

[tucanofulano]

Bratton and 'Tony Villar' are both dead wrong. "Special Order 40" needs eliminated. LAPD needs the freedom to obey current laws regarding Illegal Aliens and cooperate fully with ICE to help deport all Illegal Aliens from whichever of some 200 countries they come from. LAPD is NOT doing its jobs of "Serve" or "Protect" because of political
blockages. All Federal and State funds currently funneled into L.A. and other so-called "Sanctuary Cities" ought to be cut off entirely until there is ample proof LAPD is effectively helping detain Illegal Aliens for ICE to deport. We're tired of having Illegal Aliens causing chaos and destruction in our city, tired of 'clown houses', tired of overcrowded schools, tired of the 'freebie' medical and social services provided to these criminals, tired of gangbangers, tired of budget shortfalls dues entirely to the monies provided to Illegal Aliens, tired of 'Tony Villar', and tired of Bratton's lame excuses for failing to do his job.

[Frank]

It seems alot of people are getting upset at this order 40 thing. But what the LAPD is trying to do is to compicate things. They should just have it in a way were if you get pulled over for a basic traffic ticket then should not be allowed to ask you immigration status, If you get pulled over and have a warrent or unpaid parking tickets were you will be placed under arrest then the cops should be allowed to ask your immigration status. Look! if you have nothing to hide and are not disrespected, the cops should be allowed to question you for anything that's justifiable to there investigation. I witness alot of people make a big deal about being questioned by a cop. Just chill everyone. Let them ask whatever as long as you dont feel disrespected. The LAPD should train there cops to be cool with people and not supecte wrong doing when they havent got the full story.

[Richard]

It's about time some common sense prevailed on this issue. The mayor and Bratton are out of touch with reality. Why on earth would we not want to check if criminals are here illegally?!

[Good Riddance]

Good for the cops, daring to go against Bratton and the local politicians who pander to the illegals as though they could vote (almost gives credence to accusations that they do vote.) Bratton has lost any respect I and many had for him, from his days in NYC over 9/11 -- makes me more sympathetic to Giuliani in retrospect, who had his battles with Bratton's My Way or the Highway Ego.

Keeping the illegal gangbangers on the street endangers the cops unnecessarily as much as the rest of us, and makes fools of them: the gangbangers know they'll get away with anything, that the cops are chewed out by the Mexician poltiicians if they ask about status EVEN IF they're stopped for something else: the message to beat cops is: We're a sanctuary city, leave the illegals alone. Maybe Bratton wants to pander to the leftist-Marxist politicians but the cops don't. Even though some half the force is Hispanic now.

They know better than anyone that 80% of the worst gangs are comprised of illegals, who are emboldened by what they see as cowardice of the Chief and La Raza anti-"gringo" racism of their politicians. It was disgusting this morning to watch Richard Alarcon refer to "this very liberal City Council" when he and Huizar and Garcetti announced a stamp for Vietnam-War era Chicano activist- reporter Ruben Salazar. Who was openly anti-American and pro-illegal, a campaign many Mexicans still clearly endorse. (Garcetti was probably along for the ride as a P C liberal of Mexican descent, pandering to the Mexican demographic to serve his own future purposes.)

Alarcon uses the Council and City Coffers as his personal piggbank: declaring, as host of a Latin Hemisphere Conference on Healthcare a few months ago, that L A. is "the capitol of Latinismo, and all Mexicans and Central Americans, all Spanish speakers of the Latin Hemisphere, are entitled to free heatlhcare in the U. S." There are NO boundaries for him -- only an open checkbook from "anglos" they otherwise openly despise. Amazing the nerve of these Mexicans, also Reyes -- who openly wants to move his crowded masses into projects in the toniest, priciest areas of the westside, seeing quieter, civilized lifestyles asa just begging to be turned into Tijuana -- Cardenas, Nunez and Gil Cedillo, in being so openly pro-illegal and defying the laws of the U S and will of the people.

Reason falls on deaf ears to these people, but anyone outside this bizarre world of Los Angeles leftist politics is disgusted that our Police Chief and politicians defend the 'rights' of illegal criminals above those of law-abiding citizens to walk their streets and live in safety. Illegals make up 1/3 the prison population, and wtih Arnold needing $7.5 billion for prison healthcare, if we got rid of the illegals we could save major money right there.

Plus prisons are just networking societies for these vicious creatures -- the 'shot callers" reside there, like those who gave orders to Shaw's killer Espinoza to kill soon as he got out, to "claim" Shaw's street for the 18th St. gang. Gangbangers in and out of prison control kids in the schools as 'foot soldiers," so it's pointless to spend a fortune on prevention and intervention without getting rid of their role models and bosses.

Many illegals come back again and again soon as they're deported, although that is a 20-year added to a sentence, because the LAPD refuses to share its database of known gangbangers even within the department, crazily enough (only a few gang cops have access), let alone with neighboring cities or the Sheriff's Office or ICE. That's how killer Pedro Espinoza just lied that he was born in the US, and was released to kill again.

Good for Zine, standing up to Bratton -- who's interview in yesterday's paper slamming anyone who doesn't agree with him as just ignorant, was offensively arrogant. SP40 was not etched in stone: 30 years ago there were few illegals from Mexico/Central America, now they're half the population, 2/3 the youth and school population (schools also ruined by catering to the kids of an illiterate underclass that breeds lots of kids they don't begin to pay taxes for, but get free lunches they often toss out and welfare), 2/3 all births (kids of illegals should NOT be "anchor baby" citizens), they're 75% of users of county healthcare facilities (uninsured or on MediCal, which illegals shouldn't be eligible for).

Villar and Nunez actually writing angrily to ICE NOT to identify places which hire illegals knowingly, is outrageous. They only want employers punished if they don't treat illegals to the same wages and benefits of legal workers. They're taking on the role of radical activists for illegals, not reflecting the people.

As for "profiling" concerns about ID'ing illegal criminals: they are international terrorists, and those who aren't criminals have nothing to fear, but need to understand that a far greater good is involved. We are all forced to endure humiliating pat-downs, removing shoes and belts, now that virtual strip-search at LAX, and other major indignities in the name of terrorism, but right here locally, we have over 50,000 freely roaming the streets.

This modest step to at least deport the criminal element is a good start.

[Jack]

You know, you really have to stop blaming others for your government’s policies. It is the INVASION on Iraq and other countries, the 200 countries the immigrants come from that result in "budget shortfalls." Educate yourself first before speaking.

[fgsdfgsdf]

Uh, how do they identify a gang member? Is it anyone with a shaved head, or certain attire. Or now that some gangs have switched their attires to blend in more anonymously, what's there left to go on? Isn't that sort of the kind of guessing game that would lead to racial profiling.

As for tucanofulano's comment. That's a good example of why it would be bad to let that kind of people shape public policy. They're hardly rational, just full of resentment toward almost everybody around them. LAPD IS doing its job. Immigration law is meant to be dealt with by the feds, not local police.

[Derek]

I believe the officers should be asking anybody (not just gangbangers) who fits the profile of an illegal alien, what is there immigration status and/or country of orgin.

It is not racial profiling to ask that question to an individual who does not speak or understand english. To me that is simply common sense policing.

All americans speak english, even legal immigrants, anyone who doesn't is suspect and needs to be detained and deported if necessary.

[Gus...]

Jack you're da, man... Just wished that the "great" public education that "illegal aliens” are obtaining, was available to: Derek, and Frank. Then, I woulb be willing to listen to "there" points of view.

[No Bueno]

Bank robbery is a "Federal Crime" as well, however I do not believe you would advocate local law enforcement to stand by and allow a suspected bank robber to escape under the faulty assumption it's the FBI's responsibility to apprehend such criminals.

[Walter Moore]

The police need to support the REAL Jamiel's Law, not Zine's counterfeit, watered-down version.

Jamiel's Law REQUIRES the Mayor and Police Chief to take adopt a plan to ARREST gang members here illegally BEFORE they commit murder and other crimes, rather than waiting until afterwards. Jamiel's Law, moreover, REQUIRES written quarterly progress reports from the Mayor and Chief, including the number of illegal alien gang members arrested.

Zine's counterfeit motion, by contrast, merely REQUESTS that the Chief and Police Board to change policy so that police can NOTIFY federal authorities. Zine's motion, moreover, does not require any progress reports.

[lccat]

Again "our" FAMILIES are at the mercy of ILLEGALS and their Anchor Babies being murdered, raped, infected with disease, or robbed. But NOT to worry the Chamber of Commerce and ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS, think DONUTS, will get their "cheap labor" increasing "their privatized" PROFITS, thanks to Bush, the Congressional Leadership, State, County, and Local Elitist Politicians!!

[Janet]

Special Issue 40 is just for 'ILLEGAL GANG BANGERS." What I want to know is how can anyone be against that? Watch the dumb Latino politicans and the other morons on council say no to this. LA has become a sanctuary city for illegals and have ruined it with blight and filth. They don't obey our laws. It would be great for council to do the same thing Gloria Molina and Supervisors did last week and up the fine for illegal vending. The county looks clean compared to LA city that looks like a 3rd world country because of the illegals.

[taco bell dog]

JAMIEL'S LAW . That is the law we need. Zine's law is a hoax.

"where there is a Mexican there is Mexico"
Si say puede "

[Bobby]

The citizens of Los Angeles indeed, all of California , are being held hostage, by ex-gang banger Mayor, Antonio Villaraigossa, his side kick Los Angeles Police Chief Williiam Bratton, the corrupt City Council, and the corrupt Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors. They do not care about the spread of the illegal aliens gang violence and indeed are sanctioning it. These people are criminals.

Conclusion this will happen with your city if it has enough Mexican Nationals, and their pandering politicians, Mexican or otherwise. Count on it.

[Bobby]

Moderating comments is chicken, communist and not the American way. Any web site that moderates comments is for censorship and loss of freedoms for the American publicl. Citizens are responsible for monitoring themselves and others in a real democracy. No one else.

[Bobby]

I have lived in L.A. for over 50 years and never seen a police Chief as cowardly and political as William Bratton. Come on Chief, admit that you will not enforce the law and resign.

[joeyindc]

The cops already know and have arrested most of these gangbangers and then they have to deal with them again and again everytime they are let loose. IDing these people can be difficult as they have many aliases and ID in multiple names so just asking these people who they are and running a name could have no affect. The police should have to verify their ID with fingerprints, if they give a fake name, they should be arrested, someone should investigate the fake IDs to make sure that it wasn't stolen and causing problems with a citizen. They should be deported for that alone. If a cop arrests a gangbanger who is illegal, they should be reported to ICE by law. Their families and roommates should be investigated to see if they too are illegal, then reported to ICE. If these gangbangers are put into a situation that could cause their families and friends to be deported and arrested because of their actions, then maybe they would be less willing to cause trouble.

As it is now, the illegals know that they will be put out on bail and then they can disappear easily, they have never been made to respect our laws. Gang task forces around the country are rearresting illegals in gangs and being laughed at. There are too many people worrying about the poor misunderstood gangbangers who have to live in dangerous neighborhoods and drop out of school leaving them with no options other than dealing drugs and intimidating people. Boo hoo, they are the reason the neighborhoods are dangerous, if they don't have an education because they dropped out, it is their fault because we are forced to provide for their education whether they are illegal or not.

Citizens shouldn't have to be at the mercy of illegals. We shouldn't have to provide for their needs. We shouldn't have to be the ones to learn their language. We shouldn't have to be made to feel guilty for expecting them to behave themselves. They shouldn't be allowed to think that they have to right to demand anything from our country. They need to understand that it is their fault if they get into trouble and face deportation. It isn't ok for them to complain about being discriminated against and demand that those laws be enforced when there is a whole slew of laws they disobey.

If an illegal calls attention to himself by breaking laws, he should be sent home. Even for littering.

[levotb]

tucano is exactly right! Special Order 40 has been a disaster. I'd like to know how many American deaths have resulted in gangbanging illegals going free and then murdering American citizens since its inception in '79.

[Veronique]

Bobby -

I tried to email you but it bounced back.

Regarding your remark about moderating comments: We moderate for obscenity and, for legal reasons, we can't publish web sites included in comments. That's why there's sometimes a slight time lag in getting responses posted. Please know we never edit comments, and we don't screen based on the opinion rendered.

I appreciate your taking the time to take part in the conversation.

Sincerely,

Veronique de Turenne

[gm]

The notion that confirming legal status will prevent illegals from reporting crime is a joke. They do not report it now, because they fear the gangs more. Special Order 40 is not a law or ordinance, it is a memo put out by another politically correct chief. It is completely obsolete, and the gangs are using it to their advantage and our detriment. The opponents of rescinding it call it racial profiling. Easy solution, check everyone arrested for immigration status. It is the same with the TSA at airports. If 100% of the attacks on airliners are by young Muslim males, who do they profile? Grandmothers in wheelchairs and baby's. We are going to PC this country and our way of life out of exsistance.

[Bobby]

Thank you Veronique. I apologize for my presumption.

[I second that-goodriddance]

Good Riddance - please share where you got your numbers on those stats. I am currently researching this very issue for a project I am working on and would like to confirm the very informative numbers you posted. Thank you by the way for laying it all out. I and many agree with you. We must stop the bleeding here before we have no city at all rather a filthy war zone.......before sp40 went into affect there was very little problem with illegal people (especially violent criminals). Now it's out of control. As you pointed out, we are drowning in terrorism right here in our "once lovely but now an arm pit-Los Angeles" by none other than illegal criminals coming over by the masses everyday and many of them repeatedly being deported after committing terrible crimes....and yes many or most of those criminals are gang affiliated....forget Al Quaida....they are small potatoes compared to what we are dealing with here....the true decline of western civilization. I am so disgusted with Mayor V. and Bratton and virtually all of the "Pity Council".....they have forsaken the good TAX PAYING people (legal immigrants and born citizens) of this city. It is shameful that the average house (even with the flat market) costs a 1/2 million or more with prop taxes at around 5k-6k a year....and utiliy taxes at nearly $40 per billing cycle....and we get slapped in the face by our elected officials. SHAME ON MAYOR V., SHAME ON BRATTON, SHAME ON THE CITY COUNCIL, AND SHAME ON THE CITIZENS OF LOS ANGELES FOR NOT STANDING UP FOR YOUR (OUR) RIGHTS!.....don't be lazy and complacent people.....obviously the majority speaks out against what is happening here.......CHANGE WON'T HAPPEN BY ITSELF WE HAVE TO ORGANIZE......WE ARE EDUCATED SOCIALLY RESPONSIBLE CITIZENS, SURLEY WE CAN ORGANIZE IF THEY CAN ORGANIZE A MAY 1ST MARCH FOR AMNESTY WHY CAN'T WE ORGANIZE ONE DEMANDING OUR LAWS BE ENFORCED....WE NEED TO MAKE SURE OUR POLITICIANS HEAR US AND LISTEN TO US SAY...."WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE EITHER REPRESENT US OR RESIGN FROM OFFICE AND MOVE OVER SO SOMEONE CAN DO YOUR JOB"!

[dharc]

This makes me wonder how many rapes,murders and other crimes have been committed by illegals because Bratton has forbid the policemen on the street from
from notifying immigration? He makes me sick,he has spit on the lawful citizens of California. The favor should be returned.

[i second that-goodriddance]

To fgsdfgsdf : Obviously you have not been affected by what is going on in regard to this issue. Either you are wealthy and totally untouched by this SOCIAL & ECONOMIC PROBLEM or YOU ARE YOUNG AND INEXPERIENCED AND THINK YOUR LIBERAL WORDS ARE PROFOUND....news flash been there done that - Look this isn't a race issue and I find it offensive when anyone pro or con makes it into one....it is social economics. I was born and raised here among many races... I am in an interracial marriage and live in a neighborhood that is full of Russians, Armenians, Hispanics.....you name it. I have been here for 12 years and suddenly in the last year the ms-13 and lokos have taken over....trashing peoples' homes with graffiti and shooting at small school children.....THAT'S THE DANGEROUS PART....and a house in this neighborhood costs upwards of 500k, but here is the economic part. In the 80's we passed a law that gave rights to illegal parents of anchor babies for health care and education along with food stamps and welfare, and college tuition.....now we have been flooded with people from ALL OVER (not just Latins) taking advantage of what we give because they can't get it where they come from it's called OPPORTUNISM. Fine, if we had endless money, but we don't......the Governor just cut school funding...the Mayor has raised our utility tax for the 3rd time and we are in debt above our eyeballs.....Imagine how much we could change our state financial crisis if we could use some of the billions of dollars that we've spent facilitating people that don't help pay for our system but have no problem taking from it ......then maybe we could actually reach out to other countries and really help them build an infrastructure that would help them be self sufficient......but we must help ourselves first or we will have nothing left to give......IT'S THE BIG PICTURE PAY ATTENTION.

[eaglesglen]

I appreciate the Los Angeles Police Protective League weighing in. Too bad that we all cant join the same union and weigh in much larger numbers.

[lance sjogren]

While LA burns, the feckless leftist dictators hem and haw and insist that the gangs be allowed to continue to run the city.

I'm leaving the state in May. I'm sure Brattain will be pleased. I hope the clueless leftists that continue to think this is a "golden state" as it makes its relentless march back to the stone age are ready to pay 80% state income taxes to support the gangbangers and their politician buddies.

[Bobby]

lance, I made the point to my Aunt, that if she believes that one more street or other important infrastructure in the Southern California City she lives in is going to be repaired, good luck. Happy dreams Aunt. There is no money. There is no money from the bankrupt State of California to go to cities, there is no money from the bankrupt county to go to cities, their is no money in the bankrupt cities of Southern California , period. We will now witness a decay, year after year, city aftery city, of the streets, sidewalks, parks, etc. in California. We will witness an increase in crime. There will be an attempt to squeeze money out of the few middle class people left in the state, but like Lance, people will get it and eventually move. There is no money because it mainly goes to over-paid State employees, and illegal aliens, for a zilliion different social services . Golden State? That's a laugh.

[Charlotte Laws]

The Greater Valley Glen Council has voted to support Councilman Zine's motion to amend Special Order 40.

Charlotte Laws
Member of the Greater Valley Glen Council