New cable show seeks flippers in trouble

Are you a stuck flipper? Flipping out because you're upside down and bleeding cash? If so, the producers of a new cable TV show are looking for you. Seriously.

They sent me this e-mail: "A cable television series is searching for home owners in trouble to participate in a special episode about how to turn a losing investment into a moneymaker. If you're in over your head and need expert financial and construction advice, please write to realestatenightmares@gmail.com."

Your thoughts? Comments? Be nice to the stuck flippers. E-mail story tips to peter.viles@latimes.com.
Photo: Los Angeles Times

Comments

[aldo818]

It looks like that guys is gonna get a drill to the knee...

Looks more like a commercial for AFLAC.

[Doug in Toronto]

This isn't just a show. This is an entire channel. Sign up now for the "I Was Greedy And Thought A Coat Of Paint Would Make Me Thousands" Channel. Be nice to the flippers? I'll make popcorn for them to munch while they watch their flips being auctioned.

[MyLessThanPrimeBeef]

Do I get a referral fee? I think I know someone who works for the government (theoretically for the people, but why quibble) who might fit the bill.

[sunsetbeachguy]

Whoever the Executive Producer of Bravo's Flipping Out program is owes the bubble blogs one.

I bet he/she was a bubble blog reader and timed that show perfectly.

Season 1 catching the tail end of the bubble.
Season's 2-5 watching a totally crazy flipper lose it while economic reality forces him to do more and more demeaning jobs.

That show is going to be a hit, I think that awareness of the housing bubble positioned that show pretty well.

[Rob]

Why am I thinking of a couple of posters out here are goiing to get there 15 minutes......

[Laker]

Peter, Please forward the contact of Shockg to that show. I'm sure he will be a star.

Doug in Toronto, i think we are going to have whole programming package in HD to include 25 channel high definition about flipping houses to foreclosures.

I don't have a problem when flippers buy houses for cash, fix them and sell. I do have a problem with flippers use free money to do that and if they fail, the tax payers have to foot the bill.

[anonymous]

Am I reading this right? A cable show "hellping" flippers already upside down on how to pour more money into the property? They have a saying describing dishonest and/or dumb car mechanics "Throw parts at it until it runs." It'll run all right, but baby it's gonna cost ya!

[Ragnar]

The home examples will be carefully selected, giving flippers who are way under water more hope that they can come out afloat. Wasn't there a home in Burbank that was featured on one of these flipper shows that has already had its asking price slashed nearly 40%? It doesn't matter that it is a couple of years later. These shows just fuel hype and feed the greed.

Those people in the photo really need to take an OSHA construction safety course.

[Ace]

They should hit up some of these developers who are building new condos all over the valley. It appears that they have given up trying to sell them. Almost every new condo complex now puts up a sign that says 'rent a brand new townhome' before the building is even complete.

I looked at one in Studio City that you could either rent for $3000 a month or buy for $698k.

Another one in Burbank was $2900 to rent and $599k to buy.

The asking rents are about $800 a month too high in both complexes and neither one managed to rent out a single unit and will probably never sell one.

If you are brave enough to rent one of these condos, don't bother unpacking your stuff. It is only a matter of time before the developer stops paying the mortgage and you come home to a sheriff's notice.

Anyone know what happens to unsold condos? A really nice complex by me has only sold 1 of their 20 condos in the last year. Their is no cash coming in to maintain the property. The funny thing is that the one person that lives there still tandem parks when they have like 40 empty parking spots!

[Housing Bull Chorus]

Oh you MEAN MEAN bloggers. Who else but a scum of the earth renter would want to watch a show like this?

You bastard renters won't be happy until there are shows about children with crooked teeth because their parents couldn't HELOC a proper set of braces, or a show where the whole BMW car club gets their cars repo'd and have to take the bus with the rest of you scumbags.

Now get your 99c double cheeseburger eating greasy fingers away from the computer keyboard and go clean your filthy rented tenements.

[doug r]

Drill to the knee? If he's lucky, it's the knee... :(

[anonymous]

doug r:

Thanks, I haven't laughed that hard all week!

[Nick]

I'm actually torn on flippers; I used to hate because they were helping inflate the market and basically scamming people, but now I kinda see the value in improving houses and neighborhoods. It's really not their fault that people were overpaying like mad for houses; they were just there to take advantage of other people's stupidity... more or less the American way. Do you hate all the Realtors who made millions for doing nothing during the bubble, or just envy their luck and/or skill at market manipulation?

As long as flippers are remodeling to code and honest with buyers (and if not, they should be fined and/or jailed), and taxpayers don't bail them out when they fail, what they do is fine with me. At least they are not paying millions in bribery to Congress people to get specific bailouts from taxpayers, like some larger lenders and builders. Moreover, the shows about flippers are a great resource for what stuff really costs, which will be very helpful for astute home buyers when the market eventually bottoms out. :)

[Connie DeGroot]

I thought they already had a show like that called "Property Ladder"?

[Mooser, Bummertown]

or a show where the whole BMW car club gets their cars repo'd and have to take the bus with the rest of you scumbags

Up here in Bummertown, Warshington, we call them HELOC-Davidsons. For bikes which are painfully slow (so much noise, so little motion), they seem to disappear so fast. One day it's in the driveway, then it's gone!

[dwr]

"I thought they already had a show like that called "Property Ladder"?"

I was going to write the same thing. When was the last time one of those things actually SOLD at the end of the show?

[CaptHowdy]

Nick,

I'm not torn on flippers at all. I can't stand them.

I would much rather buy an affordable un-flipped house in need of a lot of remodeling than overpay some creep who is charging a premium for the stupid granite countertops he installed and the coat of paint he slapped on. Sure, doing the work yourself or hiring a contractor is a hassle, but it'll probably cost you a lot less in the long run.

Just watch the flipper tv shows or read the flipper online forums - the prevailing mindset is a "get rich quick" one - that is, make as much money for as little effort as possible. You worked hard for your downpayment and you're going to be working hard for that monthly mortgage payment. Think about it - was it really worth paying that flipper sleazeball the 150K premium he charged for the ridiculous-looking oversized sinks in the bathroom? You're just going to end up ripping out all the cheap crap that the flippers put in there anyway. It's better to remodel a house the way YOU want it.

They don't help neighborhoods at all. They swoop in, do superficial work that is purely intended to get the house resold at an inflated price, and then leave behind families saddled with massive mortgages. They're parasites. Don't pay the middlemen - do the work yourself.

[Nick]

While I agree with most of your points about the get-rich-quick attitude and generally substandard enhancements, in all fairness they are not forcing anyone to buy at inflated values, or imposing oppressive mortgages on anyone. When you buy a house, you can do an inspection and appraisal, figure out roughly how much value is in the enhancements, and decide how much you want to offer for them. It's not like you must buy the flipped houses, and the only reason they can try to flip houses for a quick profit in the first place is that people do pay for the crappy enhancements. Moreover, in some cases they can make neighborhoods look better, just by cosmetic exterior enhancements; it's not an extensive gentrification that a large influx of money might bring, but it's going to be better than a year-vacant deteriorating foreclosure.

I would not pay the middleman, and the flipper shows and media attention are helping me understand what is likely to be shoddy flip work, and what enhancements should cost. Yes, they are parasites, but without willing participants to buy the flips, they would all die (go bankrupt, etc.) anyway, and I'm not sure I should begrudge them trying to make a quick buck providing a service other people would obviously pay for. That's just me, though.

[Michael Snyder]

CaptHowdy,
Long before there were "flippers" every Realtor or Contractor with an ounce of gumption was looking for fixer-uppers. The drill in 1975 was pretty much the same as it was in 2005. The primary differences being avocado green vs stainless steel.
Many folks worked their way into their dream homes this way. It's called, "sweat equity". Emphasis on the sweat. Believe it or not; there are contractors out there who take pride in turning in a good day of work and leaving every home they touch a better place because they were there. Just because the house / your sense of style was a rockin' thing in 1955 that doesn't mean it was happening in 2005. The main panel in a home that age is at the end of it's service life, the original plumbing has been toast you 20 years, the kitchen has no allowances for things like microwave ovens or many other appliances that didn't exist on the "Jetsons". Have you ever seen an antique blow dryer?
If it weren't for the process that's become known as "flipping" most older homes would simply decay where they stand. Construction is an invasive process and often required a family to relocate for months. This factor alone secures the "flippers" place in the real estate food chain.

[Laker]

Michael Snyder,
Flippers are part of the RE food chain. The problem is that they (flippers) made tons of money not because they were asking it, but because buyers got cheap money and paid it...
in a flat market or normal 3% appreciation, only honest flippers could survive.
I still see REO fixers being sold in mass to flippers/investors/specuvestors for prices that will either get those stuck holding the bag, or foreclosure. I don't see how they can find suckers to pay for this refurbished shacks.

[sfvrealestate]

Thanks, Michael Snyder. If flippers didn't exist, the real estate market would have had to invent them. Capt. Howdy, I have rarely seen buyers who have had the vision to look beyond old decorating or obsolete systems or chopped up floor plans. As for the doing it yourself, a buyer needs cash for that. If it's already done for a buyer, then the improvements are wrapped into the cost of the home and financed over 30 years.

[Michael Snyder]

While holed up hiding from the heat today I surfed by one of those flipping shows just in time to see this blob of a know it all bouncing up & down on a diving board. As he was praising his acumen the diving board broke dumping him into a green, larvae infested pool with dead birds floating in it. He hauled himself out of the water, tossed his latte and demanded a hosing. Somehow I don't think it will match the hosing he'll get when he goes to sell that dump. The first scene back was his partner finding out about $11,500 in foundation work she wasn't told about.
There's also that OCD out of control exercise in control called "Flipping Out". Let's be real here: Hollywood goes for this stuff for two reasons; it's cheap to produce and they couldn't write the kind of idiotic situations these fools get themselves into. None of the "flippers" I see on any of these shows would stand a chance in the "normal" market Laker described. Actually I'd say these characters are about as realistic as TV cops.

By the way, has anybody seen "lefty"?

[Laker]

sfvrealestate,
if you have rarely seen buyers who have had the vision to look beyond old decorating or obsolete systems or chopped up floor plans, it means you don't sell that many houses or you sell but to some very limited buyers.
All the people that i know of, always remodeled the house after moving in. Also, flippers in most cases use the cheapest material and quality just to sell and make money. When you remodel yourself, you pick the materials and quality. You also design it to your needs and liking.
Additionally, HELOCs were invented for this exact purpose so buyers don't necessary need cash. Cash is always good to have, but most people that qualify for buying a house, have enough credit cards that should allow them to finance their upgrades and remodel, and then get 2nd mortgage, or HELOC. If the wanna be home buyer completes the purchase of a home, and end up with nothing in his credit cards balances, no cash, and no money in his bank accounts, he does not deserve to be home owner, he should be a renter.

[Michael Snyder]

Laker.
Stop watching flip shows... Somehow you've got them confused with reality. It's the homeowners working off their HELOCs that want to go without permits & cut corners. You can tell when the homeowner designed the kitchen by the drawers colliding and oven door that blocks the entrance. It's the homeowners who come to me with a collection of used components (lights, stitches etc.) and ask me to be sure to use this 20 year old junk in their new addition. They are also the folks who want a bid but they don't have a plan, and they'll know where everything goes when they can see it.

It must be hard for you to make a go of this market. Most of the Realtors I know are glad to have qualified clients & they typically refrain from judgments like, "If the wanna be home buyer completes the purchase of a home, and end up with nothing in his credit cards balances, no cash, and no money in his bank accounts, he does not deserve to be home owner, he should be a renter." Tell me, is this a part of your opening pitch or do you call it the "arrogance close"?

[shockg]

Michael, I agree with your statement about Laker. He is in fact a housing speculator who sold his primary residence to cash in on the crash. He's an angry renter like all the rest on here. He has been selling his doom and gloom fear on these housing blogs ever since he sold his home. He thinks he can sway the massess on this blog. I know, comical.