$4.5 million pot bust in foreclosed house

A bank employee inspecting a foreclosed house in Fontana stumbled upon a thriving business: more than 2,000 mature marijuana plants, part of a drug bust valued at $4.5 million.

From The Sun of San Bernardino: "Angel Wayhang Kou, 30, of Rancho Cucamonga was booked into jail on suspicion of cultivating marijuana, maintaining a residence for drugs, theft of utilities and conspiracy. ... Police began investigating the case Thursday when the bank employee inspecting a foreclosed house in the 14500 block of Mammoth Place found pot plants inside."

More: "Narcotics officers seized more than 2,000 mature marijuana plants. Evidence there led police to another house used to grow marijuana in the 6200 block of Long Cove in Fontana, where officers found 500 mature plants and 150 harvested buds weighing more than 150 pounds."

Police estimated the total street value of the drugs seized at $4.5 million and described a sophisticated and expensive growing system inside the foreclosed home, consisting of hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of equipment.

Your thoughts? Comments? E-mail story tips to peter.viles@latimes.com
Photo Credit: An unrelated drug bust in Florida via AP

Comments

[Enlightenment]

Proves that housing is going to pot in the I.E.

Had to say it before someone else did.

[the problemwithcaring]

Now, lefty this is what I call the joys of ownership...

[Michael Coleman]

MUST OF BEEN A BIG HOUSE ?

[mike]

they should have been able to afford a 10 year fixed with that kind of pot avilable.

[MyLessThanPrimeBeef]

It appears now that the government not only cared about increasing homeownership, but also helping small businesses as well with those no-money down, start your own marijuana plants mortgages.

[tim russert]

the most expensive pot that I have ever heard of cost $5000 a lb. Now multiply that number by 150 and you will see that this bust could not have been worth anywhere near $4.5 million. It also didn't look very good in the pictures. I would say at best this bust was worth $250,000 . . . a far cry from $4.5 million

[Neubian]

little too stoned to remember to pay the mortgage, huh?

[miguel]

This guy was an idiot, all he needed to do was pay the morgage.

[CitznFish]

I love how the police inflate the prices of these plants and equipment. There is no way you can spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on growing equipment and there certainly isn't 4.5MILLION dollars worth of anything in that house.

The PR machine at the LAPD must be working overtime to make those impressive numbers on the failure we call "The War On Drugs".

All the lies and politicking is enough to make you sick. Shame on you LAPD.

[peter C]

I love the TV show Weeds (and if you're not watching, you should) but to see it in real life is a little odd

[steve]

they value the bust at 4.5 mil because each plant is valued at $1000. now add 2000 at one house and 500 at another, the number now "seems" a little more credible.

[mcdeez]

all that pot and can't pay the mortgage??

[Kixtart]

Is that what they mean by going green?

[Jeff]

Tis a pitty. I can think of 100 reasons to legalize it and only about 2 to keep it illegal.

[Lou]

Guarantee it was a stated income loan.

[Dan Rather]

Tim, Dan here. I agree with your calculations. 2000 plants @ 4 oz a plant sold at RETAIL for $325 an oz is putting the value at about 1/4 million. And that is a retail value! No one with 2000 plants is selling pot for $5k a pound! More like $3k an lbs. back to you TIm, pass the bong.

[Dave]

Wheww.. I feel much safer now that these herbs are destroyed.
When will people realize that the war against marijuana is worse than the marijuana problem itself?
Wake up, the drug war is a racket that pays for DEA agent's pensions and perks - it's just another way to expand the government - fools!

[franc]

Oh another illegal alien involved in a crime.

[Josh]

The reason for growing in a house you do not own is the same as growing in a public park, the government can't seize the property. Just thought I'd throw that out if anyone was wondering, but you CA types probably had no problem figuring that one out.

[peter m]

With gazillions of
foreclosed properties all over the IE and the hi-desert areas i would guess that quite of few of them will be used for al sorts of illegal activites.
These would not be just wasted crapshacks in a roubudoux rustic shantyville but large practically newer homes, 4/3 -3000- sq fts, in recently- bulit IE subdivison s and tracts.
Tons of new developments put up all over the IE in such areas as corona, moreno vallery, L elsinore, north fontanas, Rancho cucamonga, southwestern riverside , temucula valley, chino, ontario, norco, containing zillions of new large cheap cookie- cutter brown mccrappers. These now reo'd homes would be ideal for all types of illegal activities as the IE is quite large & spread out and lightly policed, and filled with the assorted flotsam which escaped the fortunate coast and populated the 'cheap" IE and hi-desert wastelands.
Here are some ilegal uses for all those now empty abandoned mecrappers, all of them sure money making ventures:
1 Pot growing-already covered
2 Meth labs-better out in the desert
2 smuggled illegal-alien holding pens-clownhouses
4 rave parties
5. gangsta lairs
6. underground for fee sex- swapping parties.
7. armories for illegal weapons caches
8. underground porn shoot locations, prostitution boarding homes
9. plain old squatting
10. illegally-rented boarding homes for the vast undocumented population in the IE

[happy jack]

I guess the "mail back the keys live rent free for a year" scenario did not work ?

[john arlington]

Don't the police have better things to do?

I am so tired of hearing about drug busts.

Our politicians and policy setters time and again show that they don't know jack squat about basic economics, taxation, and prohibition.

[Steve Sparkenickle]

This is obviously an amount for personal use. Mr. Limpet would be proud!

[KansasGirl]

Tim Russert, go back and read the complete article. Dolt.

[Jethro Tull]

Just remember the narco and locals where all doing math with their newly invented Metho-Math methods. They bust meth, smoke it, drink some moonshine and then go get their smoke for the month with big fed backed bust accounting to fund the next round of criminals busting criminals round of work.

[Andrew]

150 buds weighing 150 pounds. Those are some NUGS

[left of lefty]

looks like the san bernardino housing market is really going up in smoke...

[edzo]

Mr russert you must be high, it says the 150 buds weighed 150 pounds not the entire bust of 2500 plants were 150 pounds

[Lynnette]

How scary is it to be inspecting foreclosed houses as a bank employee? I would be terrified not just of multi-million dollar ak-47 wielding drug dealers, but the regular small-time criminals just squatting.

[Tnomrev]

They always inflate the numbers, it makes them look good. Haven't you ever noticed that?

[G]

(Angel Wayhang Kou in jail) MEMO TO SELF: "NEVER, NEVER, NEVER FORGET TO PAY HOUSE BILL!!!!!"

[dudeman]

i agree with tim russert. 4.5 million for 150 pounds, would work out to around $230 dollars an 8th, making it the most expensive weed ive ever heard of.

[T Stewart]

Reminds me of a local bust where they said the plants were 7 foot tall. Showed them with a 9 foot cop! They came up to his chest.

[mblevins]

'the most expensive pot that I have ever heard of cost $5000 a lb. Now multiply that number by 150 and you will see that this bust could not have been worth anywhere near $4.5 million. It also didn't look very good in the pictures. I would say at best this bust was worth $250,000 . . . a far cry from $4.5 million'.....................

You're only counting the 150 buds that were ready for sale, not the 2000 mature plants at one home and the 500 at the other. I Have no idea how much pot you get from one plant, but I imagine thats how they arrive at those numbers

[Jack]

Hmmm, suddenly I have a case of the munchies.

[tapgary@gmail.com]

We have to remember that pot bust dollar amounts
are always inflated to the price Cops and Politicians
have to pay their dealers. After all, those officials
could be busted for a variety of things, then turn you
in to get a plea bargain. Risk always has it's price.

[Nick]

I wish I was the bank employee that found it. There would of only been the remnants of a large drug operation and I would be enjoying my retirement.

[texas joe]

"the most expensive pot that I have ever heard of cost $5000 a lb. Now multiply that number by 150 and you will see that this bust could not have been worth anywhere near $4.5 million. It also didn't look very good in the pictures. I would say at best this bust was worth $250,000 . . . a far cry from $4.5 million

Posted by: tim russert | May 06, 2008 at 04:09 PM "

Tim, I swear you're retarded, this is elementary. The 2,000 plants were only part of the drug bust, there were two locations that had pot plants for a total of 2,500 plants. Also, read the photo credit at the bottom, there you will find that the photo is not even related to this particular bust.

TJ

[claspur]

Wasted product, and no tax revenue...think about that Californians.....*sigh

[tedson]

If they legalized pot they could collect tax revenue and get rid of a major source of income for gangs.

[peter m]

Is it not surprizing that we hear about these big pot busts inside big Mcmansions in the outer exurbs of LA and the IE? There have been qiute a few recenty in areas such as city of industry diamond bar, hacienda hts, SGab valley, walnut, rowland hts, as well as out in the IE. . Not to mention big busts of pot farms in the local mts. Is greater LA basin becoming a third world corrupt region like Mexico/ tijuana , with local/ imported drug cartels, city street drug runners, large- scale marijuana growing operations?. Or is this just a commonplace occurrance for a large mostly third world ghettoized city like LA , which after all is the
focus and world leader of so many illegal imported or home grown criminal syndicate operations.

[jja_American]

Those were some funny posts..The money the USA Gov. pisses away on these programs is unReal..stay green, go green..

[Bulletinman]

Free the weed...Now we know what we can do with all the foreclosed homes. Legalize it!

[Terpin Greely]

Oh...my!
Those pointy green leaves sure look dangerous, don't they? Someone call the Department of Homeland Security.

[Jason]

"the most expensive pot that I have ever heard of cost $5000 a lb. Now multiply that number by 150 and you will see that this bust could not have been worth anywhere near $4.5 million. It also didn't look very good in the pictures. I would say at best this bust was worth $250,000 . . . a far cry from $4.5 million"

^ In response to this:

There was 150 lbs of mature bud at the second location. The $4.5m value applied to all plants at both locations and bud.

[Arnold S.]

Yet another footnote in the Bush adminstration's scheme to pump an economy by stimulation/deregulation. Mortgage companies providing ARMs to just about anyone created this situation in the western cities. In Seattle, they can't keep up with such houses. Translators are needed to talk to the occupants/pawns. Heard a good story on the whole thing on NPR some months ago. Googling reveals:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/
story.php?storyId=16628918

[Ruggy]

Those numbers are high.

[mike]

if only renters could check the credit of the landlords....my bet is the farmers were renting..

[rod smart]

They valued that sh_tty green weed at $4.5MM then there that explains why the home got foreclosed on...there are not going to see any weed at that price...what's that add up to? $35,000 for a nickel bag? That explains the housing
crisis. Reefer for $90,000,000,000 a joint just tends to break most people.

[Maurice]

I can't believe that California doesn't monitor electricity usage the way many places monitor water usage looking for water pigs. Imagine all the green house gas issues here...not just the electricity we also have fertilizer being used. Next big problem is all the CO 2 the plants give off?...I thought they took it in and gave off O 2 but I've read all the trees are a problem now. I know the smoke given off must contribute to the green house effect. I'd bet if the found all the houses in LA growing marijuana and stopped them the air would clear up. We as Californians have to come together on this....close the pot houses for clean air for our kids! and to save our earth

[sean]

In a related story, 257 Pink Floyd albums, posters, and dvd's were found alongside a sponge-bob square pants doll, two guitars, a copy of "the matrix", and a year's supply of Kix cereal

[Ron Paul 2008 End the waste and stupidity]

Vote Ron Paul and end the senseless government stupidities and save some cash.

[your mom]

you would need six foot tall plant to even get close to 1000.00 dollar plants. You could not fit that many plants of that size into a house. Just a bunch of lies.

[Mr. Travis]

the bottom line is that who ever owned this place forgot to pay the mortgage. WTF!

[E]

Bunch of stoners posting above. No wonder you can't afford a house. Oh...wait...wasn't the founder of some major insurance company a stoner? Carry on.

Maybe they should just legalize it, tax the hell out of it and make all of the potheads pay for the housing crisis.

Win Win

Pot smokers get their pot...Government reaps a windfall in taxes to bail out the next failed financial institution.

Then, raise the junk food tax. (cookies, ice cream, chips, candy et al)

You pot smokers just might be our salvation after all!!

[joemash]

Ridiculous!
Free Hemp! Free Enterprise! Free America!
The economy, fuel, food, war, not to mention the infrastructure, schools, jobs, pollution, real crime,
...you get the picture, and look who 'they' chose to be our next president...and they're still chasing weed. Amazing, but profitable for them. And to think, this mostly started from some angry mothers, a long, long time ago, who evidently could not control their kids who got caught smoking marahuana, you know the rest of the story.

[Sweet Leaf]

Numbers are way "high", like the growers. Tim Russert is right, qp max per plant plus the 150 of manicured buds would be right at a quarter mil total at that price -- and that's selling an oz at a time. You know, if we had the Fair Tax, we could let him sell it and recoup a lot of taxes that way.

[bobo]

Maurice -are you on drugs?

[Nikkofly]

Rather than fret about whether the bust figures are inflated or not, a kudos is due the bank official and the LAPD for a bust of major proportions. As for the owner of the home, here is proof positive that smoking pot makes you both lazy and stupid. Anyone with even a semi-clear brain could have managed to go to all the mammoth trouble of writing a check once a month and mailing it to the bank. Shows what pot does to an otherwise normal brain -- causes you to want to sit in a corner and stare at the wall while marveling about all the positive attributes of Twinkies and Ding Dongs. Bottom line: Don't consume your own product. Limit yourself to selling it and leave the blank stares and unproductive lifestyle to other morons who have far less to lose than you.

[Jim]

This house is actually a timeshare. I was supposed to have it as a meth lab for the first two weeks of August. I hope it's available by then.

[Jigs]

The most expensive pot on the planet is first eaten by the asian palm civet. The leaves are not easily digested so it passes through the lower intestinal tract quickly. Local natives eagerly collect the green hersey kiss-like piles and dry them for 4 weeks over a smokey fire. Then the "kisses" are trodden by the feet of young girls separating the seeds and releasing the aromatic compounds. This heavenly concoction is then packed carefully into tourist souvenirs like the ape head made from coconut shells. These souvenirs are then flash frozen and flown to Miami where they can be distributed to the market. This form of pot, which has a pleasing almond-like fragrance is said to be worth $10,000 an ounce.

[William]

Look at all these pro-legalization posts. When is the federal government going to recognize that we're a sizeable enough minority to be heard? That is if indeed we're not the majority. We could stage a voters' strike to be heard, but then the right wing pro-war, anti-healthcare faction and their pseudo-Christian minions win. The Democrats can take our vote for granted, and I honestly don't know how to get around it until the next election cycle. Let's ask some hard questions of would-be leaders early on next time. And don't forget the liquor lobby, which has the most to lose from legalization of marijuana.

[biff]

what a bunch of rocket scientists....

150 lbs + 2500 plants (hydro grown yield 1 lb of bud per plant conservatively) = 2650 pounds. Mersh price of 2000 per pound = 5.3 million.

this is actually a low estimate. If they had that kind of set-up we're talking closer to $3000 -$3500 per pound for kind bud. If you HALVE the yield to 1325 lbs (1/2 lb per plant) at $3000 per you're looking at 3.975 mil.

it's probably somewhere in between so 4.5 is most likely somewhat accurate.

SMOKE LESS POT - DO MORE MATH PEOPLE
LOL

[Richard Saunders]

What many don't realize is that when it comes to busting growing operations, the DEA puts the WHOLE PLANT on a scale, dirt too!! This weight is used to make them look good and send you away for a looooong time. It doesn't matter that 90% of the plant is not sold on the street, it's their policy.

[Richard K]

For us here in America (flyover heaven) would someone translate "I.E." please?

"Don't ]California] police have something better to do?" Why, yes, they do: busting tobacco users.

And, yes, whoever writes the ongoing series of books called "Stupidest Crimes" will probably find a chapter in this incident.

[Poog]

------------------
Lou Said:
Tim, Dan here. I agree with your calculations. 2000 plants @ 4 oz a plant sold at RETAIL for $325 an oz is putting the value at about 1/4 million. And that is a retail value! No one with 2000 plants is selling pot for $5k a pound! More like $3k an lbs. back to you TIm, pass the bong.
------------------

Math + Weed = Wrong Decimal Points. Try it again one more time, you were only about 2.25 million off your original estimate based on your own math. ;)

[John T Watts]

Let's pick a date and just legalize all drugs. Marijuana could be grown more efficienlty by farmers in large fields. Other drugs like meth amphetamines could be manufactured by the large drug companies with some sort of quality control. Taxpayers could stop paying the salaries of all the people whose incomes are associated with the drug trade such as judges, prosecuters, prison guards and law enforcement personnel who specialize in drug enforcement. Drug users would have to protect themselves from drugs. The consequences of drug use are punishment enough.

[Rob]

What?! Stupid bank employee! What an idiot! He could have SOLD it! Now...the Feds have it...and...THEY are selling it!

[Jenny Bea]

I hate articles like these...they always inflate what the worth is. It's worth a pretty penny, but not as much as they're saying.

One of these days, they're not going to bother with these people...we do have bigger things to worry about.

Till then, sucks to be this guy. Should have gone outdoors.

Maurice- you're a moron. Those plants do suck up CO2 and put out oxygen. Stop reading whatever you are. You probably think the hurricane in Myanmar was made by global warming. Just like Goracle. Those plants don't produce smoke until set afire, you idiot. And the reason why planting trees aren't the answer is because you plant a tree as an excuse to pollute, but you can't ever plant enough to offset. (which is a scam anyway)

You global warming people are like a cult. You sound just like the FLDS church, using God to advance your agendas- only you moonbats use global warming. Way to promote your agenda.

[Realist]

Hey Arnold S.,
How the Hell can you blame the Bush adminstration for the mortgage companies giving almost anybody a mortgage when it was Bill Clinton who signed the deregulation! Do your homework!

[AlbyJ]

$4.5 million dollars? What are they smokin?

[Moose]

At least there is one thing we don't out-source ! LOL

[Inland Empire]

How many houses in LA county do you think have bomb shelters left over from the 1960s? (Answer - a lot more than you think). What do you suppose people have been doing with these for years and years and years? Home grown pot is nothing new. This is just expanding on an old idea.

[Bo]

Whether they are 1" tall sprouts or 6' tall plants they automatically value them at some overly inflated number. I knew a kid when I was in high school that germinated a few hundred seeds and cops came into his room and found them. In the paper the police claimed $250,000 value on the bust.

They are full of crap and full of themselves. When you can get drugs in JAIL I think its safe to say your not going to stop them anyplace else so why keep trying? But hey Jack Daniels is legal and we all know its much better for you than an evil weed.

[mitch]

It's common for Cops to weigh the pots and dirt in a marijauna bust to make number of pounds in the bust seem more dramatic. $4.5 million? They must have weighed the house.

[Fred Bear]

It doesn't matter how you do the math - there's no way near $4.5M in pot here... I would imagine that the numbers change in the article as it gets chopped up the chain - there's probably an annual total that needs to be huge for someone's campaign. Apparently the average voter has no idea what pot is worth!

[new yorker]

uh, I thought pot was legal in California? my bro has a doctors letter to show to cops so he can grow and buy and smoke

[Barthy]

Save the polar bears - ban pot!

[BillyBob]

I can imagine the druggie screaming at his wife' " You told me the mortgage check was sent last week, WTF!? "

[Derek B]

Legalize. Ridiculous we are putting non-violent "criminals" in jail ,effectively ruining their lives and those of their families all because they grwo some plants...

....legalize...and I'm a republican for Pete's sake!

[bear1006]

Dan, get a new calculator.
"Tim, Dan here. I agree with your calculations. 2000 plants @ 4 oz a plant sold at RETAIL for $325 an oz is putting the value at about 1/4 million".

This is wrong..... 8,000 ounces times $325 an oz is 2.6 million, not 250,000

[Ann R. Key]

When are they going to bust God for cultivating marijuana?

[Johnny Valentine]

Blame it on Day Day. Wasn't Ice Cube's Next Friday shot in Rancho Kookamonga?

[PJWrites]

Just another lame attempt to demonize a lovely weed. And why was this house foreclosed on when there were millions of dollars of assets available right there inside the door? Hmmmm.

When will our government give up this insane drug war, stop wasting our money on it, and just admit defeat? Maybe around the time they quit lying to us about everything else? Yeah, right.

[Doper Hater]

Looks like there are a lot of well-informed druggies on this thread. Just want to tell you all what a bunch of fools you are. The number one threat to this country is not Al Qaeda, its drugs and all the crime that comes with them. Drugs destroy lives, families and communities. I've seen it up close. Anyone who is pro-drug or pro-legalization is an idiot. Put this guy and all drug dealers in jail forever. Have you ever thought about what a pleasant place to live America would be if people quit using illegal drugs?

[Ron]

I used to think thieves and crooks were smart like Cary Grant in that Hitchcock movie with Grace Kelly or Steve McQueen in Thomas Crown, or even Ocean's 11. But since, I've learned that most thieves and crooks are just plain stupid. Dumb as a box of rocks.

[Betty Smith]

Now they don't have a pot to pee in or a place to put it!

[Olden Atwoody]

So, I don't have to pay rent if the house is in foreclosure?

(Dumbass - $4.5M in drugs and he doesn't pay the mortgage? He wins the Darwin Award for 2008. Case closed.)

[B. S. Davis]

Yeah, it's a waste of resources to go after this stuff. But hey, we have a legislative system, if enough people think you shouldn't go to jail for marijuana, then something should be done about it. That's obviously not the case, so pot remains illegal, and it's no secret that it you go to jail for growing huge amounts of it.

Heck, lots of things shouldn't be against the law. For example, I think tasering Democrats should be decriminalized, but I don't see that on the horizon.

[Jim]

Geez some folks need to do their math better or not make comments on things they don't know about:

Average wholesale price for an ounce of higher quality pot (which they were undoubtedly growing given the size of the setup) is about $200-$300 per ounce. Retail is about $400 an ounce (and most police agencies always go with "street," aka: retail, prices because they can advertise busting more dollar amounts of pot).
The average plant in a sophisticated setup will yield 2-4 ounces (once again, police will assume 4).
Soooo:
150 lbs. + 2500 plants=
$960k + 10k ounces=
$960k + $4million=
$4.9 million

Police here actually did not give the absolute maximum possibility (surprising), but pretty close to it.
Regardless, this was a very large bust taking in a high number of pounds of pot with a street value in the $3 million - $5 million range. That's a large bust that any police agency would be happy to report.

[smoka]

Hey maurice, about 5 comments up; why don't you do a little bit of science before you post ignorant dumbass statements like the one you posted. Plants do give off O2 and consume CO2; this is one reason why deforestation is such a problem...did you say that trees are a problem? you idiot, if trees were a problem then why is there life on earth considering there used to be 10x or more trees on this planet. It's people like you that are keeping this country in the crapper; get your facts straight before you start saying things like "save the earth" Another thing, why do you believe that U.S. citizens should be monitored; is that not in DIRECT conflict with the U.S. Cosntitution?

[puka man]

There's only one way to solve this problem.
Level all the IE McMansions in a PreEmptive Strike before all the Bad Guys have a chance to :1 Pot growing-already covered
2 Meth labs-better out in the desert
2 smuggled illegal-alien holding pens-clownhouses
4 rave parties
5. gangsta lairs
6. underground for fee sex- swapping parties.
7. armories for illegal weapons caches
8. underground porn shoot locations, prostitution boarding homes
9. plain old squatting
10. illegally-rented boarding homes for the vast undocumented population in the IE...
Surely these are enough reasons to Strike now before these criminals get to grow pot in your house.
Actually, if we make living in houses illegal, it would solve the pot-house problem...no house= no pot, simple reasoning there...Anyone in a house is naturally a Criminal involved in one or more of the above activities.... No Home =No Crime.
It's The Final Solution...

[smokah]

this country is in real trouble because of backwards thinkers like those in our current administration and some posters on here...when will people realize that marijuana has been used for 10s of thousands of years, and the U.S. view on it is nothing more than political propoganda and a money maker. Alcohol and tobacco are much more dangerous than marijuana, and kill 100000s more people PER YEAR than marijuana. why don't you think about things before you say them; dummy.

[Dr j]

All that has to be done is to legalize pot, and the high prices will fall making it not as profitable to the drug dealers. If we can legalize illegal aliens, why put US citizens in jail for smoking a joint. WOW> Is this the AMERICA we want.

[K Moore]

90% of the commenters don't have a clue about anything. One guy says he doesn't know how much a plant produces, yet he supports the cops extremely inflated value. Maurice left the planet years ago. As for you "smart" people who say "they were just too lazy to pay the mortgage", uhhh, there are blocks of empty foreclosure homes. The dealers have their pick of homes to use. Get a little educated, youtube a video called "immigration gumballs" and find the 2007 documentary "The American Drug War". You "drugs are bad" people may actually see the truth which is "the government is bad. **Side note** The largest endorsers of "The Partnership for a Drug-Free America" are pharmacuticals, tobacco and alcohol. Gimme a break

[Olden Atwoody]

Tim & Dan:

I don't know where you potheads learned your math, but $4.5M USD divided by 2,500 pot plants is $1,800 per plant. Figure that a mature plant might yield 2.5 pounds (including the growth clippings) then we're down to $700 a pound. That's a reasonable wholesale price.

Divide a $700 pound into 16 ounces, and you get $45 per bag.

So why is it so expensive retail? I thnk the Attorney General should look into the unreasonable profits of the Drug Cartels.

[g-$$]

Gotta love those inflated prices.

[kevin]

"Shows what pot does to an otherwise normal brain -- causes you to want to sit in a corner and stare at the wall while marveling about all the positive attributes of Twinkies and Ding Dongs."

This is a very ignorant comment and I feel sad for you. I vaporize weed (MUCH better than smoking, better effect and lungs feel amazing) every day and here are a few of the things I've done with my life: I've written four novels, recorded 3 albums with my band, toured the US and Europe, and designed and helped build my own house. Just a little bit more than sitting in a corner and staring at a wall. You might want to rethink your definition of a 'normal' brain. In fact, having a definition at all for 'normal' is already the wrong path.

[Passportholder;-)]

LOL......'Moose', you are absolutely correct!!!
People......"WAKE UP, it's the AMERICAN WAY" ;-)))))

[IdonRemember]

2500 plants will produce roughly 312lbs assuming 2OZ per on a 3month cycle. add in the other 150lbs plus cost of equipment and value of home and I still doubt it comes close to the estimated 4.5mill.

[Don Fredo]

how can I get set up to grow my own? I'm knida broke right now and could use the extra money.

[me]

when they figure the value of the weed, they figure it from source to user.. So the grower is gonna sell it 10 pounds at a time for X dollars. Each guy he sells to is going to sell it 1 pund at a time for Y dollars. Each guy that buys 1 pound will sell it in ounces or smaller for Z pounds. X+Y+Z= inflated "value" of the weed confiscated.

[JEFF]

What I have been told is hydro is going for $1200 a QP so $5K a lb isn't wrong. That's why it's being grown in everyone's house.

[Decriminalize NOW]

And yet up to 85% of murders go unsolved...

The War on Drugs is a waste of time and resources.

[Jason]

Listen, the POT was figured to be so expensive because they added an extra $150/lb fuel surchanrge to transport it to the police station... makes sense with fuel costs in socal being over 4.00/gallon! hehehehe

[Ironman]

should have said they siezed a gadgillion dollars worth with the help of Ironman

[Rich]

Amusing.

More entertainment coming from the Republik of Kalifornia...

Can't control immigration. Losing the "War on Drugs". Trying to ban smoking. Ridiculous firearms regulations. What you need out there on the Left Coast are more laws that can't be enforced.

But wait! Isn't the inability to enforce laws...anarchy?

[Schratboy]

The cops hate it when people cut them out of the take. Booze, tobacco and pharmaceuticals are all taxed like mad. Anybody that doesn't pay the "man" is targeted for the slam.

[Timothy]

Another Al Qaeda drug operation. The money from this illegal drug operation was obviously funneled to the Muslim terrorists to finance their war against us, God's chosen people.Did anybody check to see if he was a SDSU student.

[Gary Pate]

The state and local govt's are having a budget crisis & they waste money on busting someone growing something as harmless as pot?

The more that is grown here, the less that needs to come across the border...

[RAYRAY]

All the argueing overjust the math of the weed makes me glad i dont smoke anymore...... cuz its obvious....

[rob reid]

Reporters who report garbage stories like this should be removed from their jobs. Please explain why they couldn't afford to make their house payments. 4.5 million in weed, sounds like the reporter is the dope here. Sad part is, at trial, they'll submit the newspaper story, at parole hearing, the story will get used again.
In Canada, this would result in a fine. In the US of Coruption or whatever you call yourselfs these days, this guy will probably get years.
what a joke . . .

[kindbud]

you have to remember that the ganja is still wet (5x heavier) and that weight also includes stalks, leaves, and roots; and if the plants were in dirt, the dirt attached to the roots...but it is messed up how the idiot cops try to make their own operation look more successful by screwing the growers with more, unprofitable weight, resulting in a heftier charge. when is the media going to start investigating the truth behind crime, when the news says $4.5 million bust, they are just as guilty as the police for false charges. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT.

[Malman Rushdee]

I agree with the others who said, this bust is highly overated. The numbers are always inflated on things like this. I heard of a guy who threw seeds in a pot and then got busted for a small bag of pot. The cops found 20 seedlings about an inch tall, and the report said "he was charged with 20 counts of cultivation with a street value of over 50,000$" (They figured the grown plants would be worth 2500$ a piece) Almost all pot heads have thrown some seeds in the dirt, and some usually come up, but getting one grown female plant is fairly rare, unless you have a real "green thumb"

[malman Rushdee]

One more point, the cops usually weigh the pot undried if they find it undried, and do not figure that the final dry weight will be only 10 percent of the fresh, wet weight, leading to more inflation of the numbers

[Evil Banker]

If marijuana was legal, the grower would have owned that house outright and the bankers would have squat. Good thing we keep weed outlawed.

[Evil Banker]

Hey Doper Hater, have YOU ever thought about what a pleasant place to live America would be if people quit using LEGAL drugs? Valium. Alcohol. Percocet. Oxycontin, Prozac, Ambien. Ritalin. Where does it end?

You're an idiot if you trust your pathetic "government" to decide for you what should or should not be illegal.

[Jon]

Obviously their equipment wasnt sophisticated enough. If they had put in motion sensing cameras, they could have been alerted to police activity and not gotten caught.

[Killa]

Marijuana doesn't destroy lives, it destroys your snack cabinet.

[Shanker king]

I'll bet the growers were paying their rent - and probably pre-paid their rent. These guys obviously aren't stupid. The property owner is the one who didn't pay his mortage.

With our terrible ecomony, there are going to be a lot of growers setting up now.

It's not always nice guy next door, it could also be gang related, or organized crime running the grow house.

We may not be talkin' about Nancy from Weeds here.

[Its_Webby]

Yet another footnote in the Bush adminstration's scheme to pump an economy by stimulation/deregulation. Mortgage companies providing ARMs to just about anyone created this situation in the western cities. In Seattle, they can't keep up with such houses. Translators are needed to talk to the occupants/pawns. Heard a good story on the whole thing on NPR some months ago. Googling reveals:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/
story.php?storyId=16628918

Posted by: Arnold S. | May 06, 2008 at 08:55 PM

That's funny, it was the Democrats who said that the banks need to make it easier for the minorities to be able to get housing. The Republicans tried to vote it down, and the Dems. won. You need to study before you spew your hatred!

[Its-Webby]

Next big problem is all the CO 2 the plants give off?...I thought they took it in and gave off O 2 but I've read all the trees are a problem now.
Posted by: Maurice | May 06, 2008 at 09:39 PM
HUH??????
You've been smoking too much of what they found!

[AJ]

The Weeds?

Somebody was watching Showtime...

[jim]

Legalize the harmless plant. It is much safer any day of the week than alcohol. Every year 50,000 people die of alcohol poison and countless others due to dwi. If you legalize it you can use the windfall profits to help pay for schools, roads and healthcare...as well as putting the bad guys out of business.

[walter Cronkite]

Hey Dan...Tim....Walter here....it is standard operating proceedure for the police to weigh the entire plant....dirt and all. This adds to the weight for prosecuting the offender. The more weight...the more time....and that's the way it is- Walter

[Mike]

4.5 million! If it were that easy to make money growing pot everyone would do it..

Now lets try and figure out what it was REALLY worth..
2500 plants total.. Probably grown in a SOG so each plant's dry weight is probably 1/2 to 3/4 of an OUNCE. So lets just say each plant's dried weight is one ounce for the sake of argument. 2500 ounces divided by 16 = 156.3 lbs. Plus the 150 buds at 1 oz each.. another 9 pounds. So the police estimate was correct. Just over 150 pounds. 165.3 pounds x 5000.00 (the 5 grand is the most you will pay for a pound of highest quality cannabis). = 24,795.00 .. See people. POLICE LIE.

If it were that easy to make 4.5 mil everyone would do it. But as you can see, once you pay your mortgate, bills, equipment costs. Your not making much at all. As a matter of fact, chances are that pot was not worth $5000.00 bucks a pound and the plants didn't yield 1 oz per plant. Chump Change...

So according to the police... 4.5million divided by 165.3 lbs = 27,223.23 per pound. I think the police have mixed up the cost of cocain with the cost of pot.

Like I said, if it were that easy to make 4.5 mil, everyone would do it.

[Scarecrow]

Prohibition does NOT work...period!

watch "American Drug War: The Last WHite Hope"
http://www.americandrugwar.com/

for the truth on the failed drug war....

[JohnnyB]

Sounds like they used a Wall Street derivative formula to over leverage a small sub prime house bust into a $4.5 million Potsi scheme.

[Drew]

These numbers are WAYYYY off a dude got busted here in Indiana with 7000 #'s of packaged and stored pot, ready for delivery to everywhere in the country, and they valued that at 6.5mil.

Oh, and if you want to save the planet Maurice, two acres of Hemp consumes more CO2 in a day than 10 acers of old growth forrests, whcich I hear are bad these days...

Its hard to imagine so many brainwashed people.

the war on drugs trading cards would help alot of you out with some simple facts.PEACE and God help us all.

[ozoned]

My stepson is doing 7 years for pot possession (less than an ounce) here in Missouri. 25 years old with 4 kids and a wife. The laws are a joke...

[LL in La]

Gives a new meaning to Left Coast higher" education, now doesn't it? From "Animal House" to "Crack House" in one mere generation! America should be proud!

[Bill]

How do you know if the police are lying? Their lips are moving. These figures are over - inflated, period. They would be lucky if each of the immature plants yielded a 1/4 ounce of weed. I had a friend busted for growing back in the 1980s, they pulled four foot immature plants out of the ground and put them on a scale roots, dirt ball stalks and all. Those immature plants weighed in at almost 4 pounds each and that's what they put on the indictment.

[rcon1]

I knew of a bust years ago in the high desert, it was a house grow farm. Maybe 1000 plants 200 grown up to produce second gen buds. The cops raided it no one home, claimed a very safisticated growing op ( simple grow lights and hydro ) said it was worth millions. Probably really worth about 60K.

[Pot Head]

you kids watch out, those refer cigaretts will make you crazy. Don't believe me, just ask Dow Chemical - the company that funded the political backlash against hemp so the US Army would invest in nylon ropes - and forever make a market for the company... Guarantee you Grand Pa bush had his hand in that "pot" of money, just like Jr. has his hands in so many pother "pots" and Barrells of money.

[janaya]

We just need to open the door for all drugs I am sad to say. WE WILL NEVER WIN the WAR ON DRUGS. If idiots want to WASTE their lives on drugs, the government should sponser it and use that money for "Anti-drug" campains and to help those that would like to get off them.

If we take over this black market I am not going to waste my life away. Let the smart survive.....

BTW......can the feds just forward my tax refund check straight to the Oil Giants?? Just eliminate the middleman (me).

[Nonya]

There has never been a war on drugs. It has always been a cover to bring the drugs in. The war is on you, your mind, your children, and your children's children.
Wake up, vote Ron Paul or we will be seeing verichip stations at the post master.
"No one will be able to buy or sell less he has the mark of the beast" Don't say you weren't warned. And let them never say we did nothing. God Bless.

[Commodore Skylord]

I'm really ashamed of all you fellow heads out there that can't do math (except Biff,who got it right). I was stoned all the way through getting an M.S. in Statistics. What's wrong with the rest of you? Just because you're a stoner doesn't mean you have to be lame, too. Pathetic. Really pathetic.

[Aj]

The smart thing would be to donate the pot to those who
have medical issues at some legal clinic, and have it on
the news that the cops did it.

The Police would come out smelling like a rose, and not just
another waste of tax payers money, time, and propaganda
promoting a very beneficial plant, that medically, foodwise and getting a buzz on is much safer than other harmful
drugs promoted by the corporate state, and makes cops
look dumb policy whore who try to enforce archaic drug laws.

[Chad]

We all know Cops lie....

[chris]

the weed would have been worth less than a million dollars if there were 150 lbs of dried bud. 16 ozs to a pound, 2400 ozs plus or minus at (lets just say) around $400/a zip = 960,000. not a bad chink of change.

[Jeff C.]

To Tim Russert:

Please re-read the article. The 150 pounds of pot was related to the 500 pot plants found in the SECOND home. The FIRST home had 2000 plants, or 600 pounds. All told, that equals 750 pounds of pot. Multiply that by your $5000/lb of pot, and you get $3.75 million. That's pretty close to what the article said was confiscated at $4.5 million. Seems this pot was $6000/lb.

Reading comprehension is a beautiful thing , eh Tim.

[sandy]

cough, cough ,cough, hack, snort ,ear.... I thought it was legal to grow pot in california.Im not from there so i dont know the laws there.Imagin the tax revenue that could have been generated from that load .Oh well i guess thoes bank people who forclosed on thoes houses knew what they were doing and im sure they all have good lawyers .

[Foothiller]

Of course the LAPD inflated the value. That makes it easier for them to justify the millions they spend 'fighting drugs'..

What a crock.

Probably, somebody forgot to pay their 'protection' money and got sent up the river.

Vote Ron Paul. End the war on drugs, or start going after the really harmful drugs like alcohol, nicotine, and teh myriad of physically addictive pharmaceuticals (and their side effects) that many of us take on a daily basis.

Legalized drugs would take the market away from the drug dealers. Just as ending prohibition ended the bootleggers outrageous profits in the 20's and 30's.

[juxtapostle]

Only months ago, Obama was pro-decriminalization.

Yes We Can!

[Johnny B. Good]

I find myself craving a bong hit after reading this article!

[cowsrock!]

this is stupid....

www.trevortitman.com

[Mr. Logical]

The Pot wasn't worth $4.5 million.
The Police exagerate the price to make their work sound more important.

The largest buds I've ever smoked weighed no more than 0.65 grams.

[A Scanner Darkly]

The demonization of marijuana is not indiginous to the substance itself; in a pharmalogical sense it's much less harmful than many of the perscription & OTC drugs issued. It's the culture; both the criminals and the cops feed off each other and cause significant mememic damage to society. Probably the best solution is to legalize the growing of small amounts of cannibus for personal use to drive the price down. Kinda like brewing your own beer...you obviously can't sell it (ATF would have a field day) and production amounts/costs required for profiteering would be prohibitive. Also, the most restricted and controlled "seeds" are that of tobacco. Why aren't People bitching about growing their own tobacco, without all the additives?

[Fourth Generation]

With an investment of millions of dollars and equipment totalling thousands of dollars these stupid guys allow the properties to go into foreclosure? That in and on itself is cause to jail those two morons.......

[Allen Wood]

So, Let me get this straight, A person with a mortgage on a house that has 4.5 million dollars of pot on the property is unable to pay the mortgage, and is stupid enough to keep drugs of this value just hanging around for the bank to find when they foreclose. Wait, LOOK UP, I JUST SAW DOROTHY AND TOTO FLY BY ON THE ROOF OF A HOUSE! I think it had a foreclosure sign on it too! This is funnier than some of the comedies that I have seen lately. The CIA moves more drugs in an hour than this guy. Give me a break!

[Tet]

Fascinating Read through the comments.........

Two Things...

1) Its interesting how everyone has interpreted the amounts differently - and whether the 150lbs was or was not inclusive of the plants etc..... New reporting at its best...

2) MORE Importantly... Gosh - Be careful when calling someone a dumbass - and then making a dumbass comment...
(Dumbass - $4.5M in drugs and he doesn't pay the mortgage? He wins the Darwin Award for 2008. Case closed.)

Posted by: Olden Atwoody | May 07, 2008 at 08:09 AM

Ahhhh - for anyone who actually knows the Darwin Awards - you need to DIE while doing something stupid - thats the whole point of the DARWIN awards.....

[Lionel]

Bravo Nonya!

Glad somebody gets it.

More should.

[la voce bella]

All I ever hear is that "DRUGS ARE EVERYWHERE!"

I'd love to have a hit every now and then, but wouldn't know the first clue as to where to get some!! Pretty pathetic, eh? I guess we can all forget about "free enterprise" and "the pursuit of happiness."

[I go by Diogenes...]

... as he lays there in a mari gee hoonie state of bliss.
Any way War on (some) drugs as Robert Anton Wilson put it and sometimes I must add.
Guns, Drugs and the CIA, a film docu

CIA (Cocaine Importing Agency) b matter of record, brought crack to Calif
Google Drug Inc.
What was the Boxer Rebelion about?
American Slavers turned from drug smugglling to human cargo

I suggest y'all Study Blackstones Commentaries od the Laws of England (the US law system has its roots there"

The world is full of dysfunctional folks using Sex Drugs and Rock ‘n’ Roll, Booze food and what ever helps them through the day Big Pharma advertises “happy pills”

Wake the foobar up Kiddies!

Read the 1972 Classic by Andrew Weil, The Natural Mind.
or Terry Southern’s Red Dirt Marijuana

Red Dirt Marijuana

'How come it's against the law if it's so all-fired good?' asked Harold.

"'Well, now, I use to study 'bout that myself,' said C.K., tightening the lid of the fruit-jar and giving it a pat. 'It ain't because it make young boys like you sick, I tell you that much!'

"C.K. put the fruit-jar beside the shell box, placing it neatly, carefully centering the two just in front of him, and seeming to consider the question while he was doing it.

"'I tell you what it is,' he said then, 'it's 'cause a man see too much when he git high, that's what. He see right through ever'thing . . . You understan' what I say?'

"'What the heck are you talking about, C.K.?'

"'Well, maybe you too young to know what I talkin' 'bout--but I tell you they's a lotta trickin' an' lyin' go on in the world . . . they's a lotta ole bull-crap go on in the world . . . Well, a man git high, he see right through all them tricks an' lies, an' all that ole bull-crap. He see right through there into the truth of it!'

"'Truth of what?'

"'Ever'thing.'

"'Dang, you sure talk crazy, C.K.'

"Sho', they got to have it against the law . . . Sho' you take a man high on good gage, he got no use for they ole bull-crap, 'cause he done see through there. Shoot, he lookin' right down into his ver' soul!'"

Seeing right through ever'thing is not officially encouraged. In fact, it's downright anti-American, esp at a time when a whole lotta trickin' an' lyin' is standard procedure. The majority of the Supreme Court understands this, as does anyone in authority committed to increasing their power.

But then again, seeing right into the truth of matters will invariably break your heart. At least music sounds better.

[I go by Diogenes]

dysfunctional folks using Sex Drugs and Rock ‘n’ Roll, Booze food and what ever helps them through the day Big Pharma advertises “happy pills”

Wake the foobar up Kiddies!

Read the 1972 Classic by Andrew Weil, The Natural Mind.
or Terry Southern’s Red Dirt Marijuana

Red Dirt Marijuana

'How come it's against the law if it's so all-fired good?' asked Harold.

"'Well, now, I use to study 'bout that myself,' said C.K., tightening the lid of the fruit-jar and giving it a pat. 'It ain't because it make young boys like you sick, I tell you that much!'

"C.K. put the fruit-jar beside the shell box, placing it neatly, carefully centering the two just in front of him, and seeming to consider the question while he was doing it.

"'I tell you what it is,' he said then, 'it's 'cause a man see too much when he git high, that's what. He see right through ever'thing . . . You understan' what I say?'

"'What the heck are you talking about, C.K.?'

"'Well, maybe you too young to know what I talkin' 'bout--but I tell you they's a lotta trickin' an' lyin' go on in the world . . . they's a lotta ole bull-crap go on in the world . . . Well, a man git high, he see right through all them tricks an' lies, an' all that ole bull-crap. He see right through there into the truth of it!'

"'Truth of what?'

"'Ever'thing.'

"'Dang, you sure talk crazy, C.K.'

"Sho', they got to have it against the law . . . Sho' you take a man high on good gage, he got no use for they ole bull-crap, 'cause he done see through there. Shoot, he lookin' right down into his ver' soul!'"

Seeing right through ever'thing is not officially encouraged. In fact, it's downright anti-American, esp at a time when a whole lotta trickin' an' lyin' is standard procedure. The majority of the Supreme Court understands this, as does anyone in authority committed to increasing their power.

But then again, seeing right into the truth of matters will invariably break your heart. At least music sounds

[George Warmonger]

I guess the cops already caught all of the real criminals.
Like the ones that lied the U.S. into wars.

[J S Raggman]

Well, it seems a few of you kind folks are on the right track. The figures presented are irrelevant. There is no way to justify these "law enforcement" agencies rabid mentality towards most things. The "LAW" allows them to run roughshod over anyone. They rarely ever prevent a crime or even act when called, until a crime has been committed (personnel experience) by then the damage is done and someone is going to pay. Who pays matters not. Their only purpose is to generate revinue. It says it right on the door of there screeching assault vehicles. To Protect and Serve. Little did you know that really means To Protect Their Intersets and To Serve Themselves. It's a no win situation no matter how you slice it. They will stamp out EVIL where ever they may find it. Now, the question is, what will be cosidered evil next ? Talk amongst yourselves.

[jim]

They should legalize it and use the taxes from the windfall profits to fix the healtcare system, roads, and the schools. At the same time you will put the drug lords out of business, crime will go down, and we will save money from not fighting a war against a harmless plant. Thousands of people die a year from alcohol poisoning and drinking and driving. In a bar your likely to see fights and out of control behavior while in a coffee shop you'll see none of this just people hanging out being cool.

[Steve]

There goes my supplier!!!!! Damn, now what am I gonna do? Sucks, they should at least do something with that crop, if it is worth that much how about sell it so we can get our nation out of debt or something!!!

[Vee]

Did Mr. Cheech or Mr. Chong have any comment regarding why they were doing this? Why don't they just legalize and tax the stuff like they do everything else? Probably would pay off the national debt in a week or two. Can't stand it when everything is illegal unless the gubment is doing it like gambling or whatever. Wish they spent as much time and money going after corrupt Politicians,big business thieves, and illegal aliens. Our country is a joke, a really bad one.

[carl]

this sounds to wierd to be true. he must have been partaking of his product and forgot the other house and payments. from what i saw the crop was ready for picking. is this guy a rasta smoking those kong size dubies. i know all the plants were mdicenal and they were for all his friends. only in california.

[dbreeze]

I can't believe noone has posted this. Please visit this site and support H.R.5843 http://capwiz.com/norml2/issues/alert/?alertid=11280301

[tharp42]

Mitch is right. The cops often weigh the plants along with the DIRT and POTS that they're in to get big results. That's what probably happened in this case. Reaize that there are big financial incentives for cops to make big money busts, so they almost always inflate their results.

Legalize it and stop wasting our time and money.

[Dan Rather]

Dan here again. Of course the math was off. I work for cable news and I was high. What's the frequency Kenith?

Also, Hydro produces a lot of buds per light not per plant. 1 plant in a hydro field will produce about an oz give or take on the strain. You might get 1 pound per 1000 watt light but not per plant on hydro. Imagine a 1 pound plant (which would be over 2 feet in hight) growing in a 2 inch cube or cup. That is not the way it is done. You grow tall & large in soil. Small and numerous with hydro.

Also, a grow-op like this is not taking power from the grid. Don't be stupid. They are stealing power or using many of the generators left from W2K with gasoline or natural gas.

[Rumple Stiltskin]

Yeah everybody's got something real smart to say here. The whole country is run like ENRON.

[Phil Trent]

Every time you see silver foil on windows you now know what's going on inside :-)

[Chuck Roast]

I love to read the comments from stoners:

"legalize it, it doesn't hurt anyone"
"pot is less harmful than booze or cigarettes"
"legalize it and collect taxes"
"I need it for my "

If only we could read honest comments like:

"Legalize it - I just like to smoke it."
"Someone said something or I read it somewhere that pot is bad for you, but I don't remember where"
"what? did you say something?"

[Zeb]

Thank you LAPD for saving America from plants.

We can all seep better at night knowing that a house with plants growing in it is no more.

Damn, our government is awesome, aren't they?

[jo]

Hmmm . . . just another reason to legalize it . . think of the tax money they're NOT collecting if t were made legal!! (Coz we KNOW if its legal, its taxed!) Just wasting our tax dollars by discovering shit that they'll spend even more dollars trying to find the "owners"!!! As if THAT will happen!! What a waste! In more ways than one!

[akira]

this make me so pissed that the police dont realize what there destoying. that rite there was someone's time, effort, and money.grrr!that picture just makes me sick!! destroying his plants is already a harsh punisment! to watch something someone took time on, and hydro to,(that was going to be kill) is just so destructive! and then jail time? thats ridiculous!! some hinds are like concrete...mixed up and permanently set.

[MaryJane Toke]

Save the Bales!

Save the Bales!

[Wowzers....]

He shoulda offered to rent the home....then the pot coulda kept him alive.....what a tightwad! hehe

[IgobyDiogenes]

Tax it???
tax air?
tax veggies ?
tax the net ? What is it with you people?

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home

The War in Iraq Costs the meter is spinning like a fully lit grow-op

think on this
[juris ignorantia est cum jus nostrum ignoramus] it is ignorance of the law when we do not know our own rights"

Dura lex, sed lex
"The law [is] harsh, but [it is] the law". It follows from the principle of the rule of law that even draconian laws must be followed and enforced; if one disagrees with the result, one must seek to change the law.
The first brocard of law tell all, right flat out – If one disagrees with the law /change the law

Ignorantia legis non excusat
"Ignorance of the law is no excuse." Not knowing that one's actions are forbidden by the law is not a defense. This can be extended to include Ignorance is no excuse

As a Canadian I am in awe of the powers you Americans have and do not take advantage of.
Also as a Canadian I am hard pressed to find Canadian sites, or as a purposeful people as some Americans when it come to changing Bad law.

And I won’t, at this time get into the down side except to say that when rights are not claimed or exercised those rights are taken.

and for good measure

Marines ignore Taliban cash crop to not upset Afghan locals

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: May 6, 2008
Filed at 3:14 p.m. ET

GARMSER, Afghanistan (AP) -- The Marines of Bravo Company's 1st Platoon sleep beside a grove of poppies. Troops in the 2nd Platoon playfully swat at the heavy opium bulbs while walking through the fields. Afghan laborers scraping the plant's gooey resin smile and wave.

Last week, the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit moved into southern Helmand province, the world's largest opium poppy-growing region, and now find themselves surrounded by green fields of the illegal plants that produce the main ingredient of heroin.

The Taliban, whose fighters are exchanging daily fire with the Marines in Garmser

[IgobyDiogenes]

Just say no LOL

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: May 6, 2008
Filed at 3:14 p.m. ET

GARMSER, Afghanistan (AP) -- The Marines of Bravo Company's 1st Platoon sleep beside a grove of poppies. Troops in the 2nd Platoon playfully swat at the heavy opium bulbs while walking through the fields. Afghan laborers scraping the plant's gooey resin smile and wave.

Last week, the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit moved into southern Helmand province, the world's largest opium poppy-growing region, and now find themselves surrounded by green fields of the illegal plants that produce the main ingredient of heroin.

The Taliban, whose fighters are exchanging daily fire with the Marines in Garmser
!

[Me]

Sad. This country.

Value is what you could get for it on the street and judg