RE blogs: The good, the bad, the nasty

The L.A. Times' Ann Brenoff reports on a topic near and dear to readers here: the proliferation of real estate blogs and the tension between blogging agents and bubble bloggers.

"Dust-ups between the bubble bloggers and the real estate industry bloggers are frequent, and disputes fall along predictable lines: Agents put a more positive spin on the market; bubble bloggers predict economic catastrophe. The two groups distrust each other, and some bloggers claim to fear repercussions from the other side. Few would disagree that bubble bloggers are angry victors whose 'I told you so' message is often delivered with a cyber finger-poke in the chest."

The story is chock full of links (Bad MLS Photo of the Day could become a new favorite here). It also points out that, in a crummy market, more and more agents are blogging for survival: " ... if I didn't have this blog, I wouldn't be in business," says Teresa Boardman, who writes www.stpaulrealestateblog.com. "Most of my business today comes from my blog."

Thoughts? Comments? E-mail story tips to peter.viles@latimes.com

Illustration by James Kaczman for the L.A. Times.

Comments

[NoWayinLA]

Dude. I can't believe your own paper did a piece on housing blogs and didn't even give you a mention. Does Ann even look at you when you pass her in the hallway?

Though, based on the tone there, I think you're better off. That piece was just a tad over-sympathetic to the poor widdle RE agents, and a little too hostile to bubble bloggers, don't you think?

Seriously, though, why should bubble-bloggers and their commentators be angry? It was only a nationwide fraud, encouraged by our government, perpetrated by all levels from Wall Street down to Ann's web-literate real estate agents. It only forced people out of their homes, out of state, out of work, and out of their minds.

Is that any reason to be angry? What's a little urban blight, unemployment, rising inflation, and a few trillion to the federal deficit, anyway? Let's give them a break.

Seriously, though, the realtors would get a whole lot more respect if they could be realistic once in a while. NAR and company need to stop looking at all their statistics and indicators and past trend data and look around their own neighborhoods for a change. Until their realtors can find a house they'd be willing to move into, at a price they're willing to pay, then the market must continue to fall. This isn't rocket science.

[sunsetbeachguy]

We should call the Waaaahambulance for the people crying for their beloved bubble back.

Screw 'em.

[lefty]

guys, the best place to read a blog is from your own home in fantastic metro L.A.!! i've seen the south of france and spain, there is no comparison because SoCal rules; buy now and you will get yourself a super duper deal too!

[LA-renter]

Back when only a fool spoke his mind to friends & neighbors and questioned the bubble reality, I wondered who would be blamed when the bubbled burst. Well, I failed to anticipate that non-believers would be the bad guys.

Kinda like our foreign wars. Those who oppose the war & occupation are blamed when reality sinks in.

[bigmoneysalsa]

"Angry victors" - I like the sound of that.

[Cal]

http://tinyurl.com/2onw9h

Pretty good article making a case for people to walk away.

As for Ann Brenoff article, there was vitrol on both sides one of the sides was right for a time and said nasty things and now the other side is right and saying nasty things. The degrading comments made by realtors and homeowners who were afraid the bubble talk might be true (and that they made a mistake) about people who chose not to participate in the madness were sickening. The anger isnt just random, look at how bad it has gotten and how stupid it all was. Just because people want a place to call home and grow roots.

There is no happy ending to all of this, just less bad endings for some than others, but that chapter has yet to be written and we yet get to know who is who.

[Cal]

http://tinyurl.com/yv7ozq

Pretty funny, one of the Toll Brothers daughters bought a condo in Florida from the company and is now backing out of the contract.

[Inland Empire]

The bad MLS pic site could probably include most real estate pics on realtor.com and other sites. Really puzzling tho is what planet is "Tuscon" on?

[sunsetbeachguy]

Nah, I am not angry. But I will be victorious.

I will extract many economic concessions when buying real estate.

I will also extract a pound a flesh from the contributing actors to the bubble, namely everyone in the REIC.

Sellers and enablers will be charged for my opportunity costs in waiting out the bubble.

[Tombstone Realty]

LEFTY!! HI!!!! *waves!!&*

Any of your photos on the Bad MLS Photo site??

I agree with Dr. Sir. Viles on this site, it's going to become highly entertaining. I remember one photo back in Vegas, of this palacial modernist complex - looked great! Except for the agent's white 1994 chevy parked right in the center of the shot.

NO!

[Michael Snyder]

Being angry with Realtors over the "bubble" makes about as much sense as being angry with the gas station attendant over the price at the pump. This debacle was created at the very top levels of governmental and corporate management and punishing the folks at the bottom of the food chain is pointless. Most of the Realtors I know acted in good faith with the best information they had at the time. Now I do have a special cold spot for the mortgage brokers who went for the YSPs at the expense of their clients. It's right next to the "flippers" who resorted to loan fraud and down the hall from the "Orange Man's" luxury 6' x 8' suite.
As for blogging; I find it both entertaining and somewhat therapeutic. Actually venues like this provide an excellent "ear to the ground" and it's a shame our "representatives" in government are either too lazy or arrogant to avail themselves to the views expressed here. Besides, where would we be without "lefty"?

[Randy Adams]

I want to echo the superb entry by NoWayinLA.

A while back, this blog had a couple of threads on why people were leaving (or had left) LA and also why they loved it. Over and over again, people cited the cost of housing as the chief reason for their exit. That's what the bubble gave us. It made LA impossible for the middle class. LA is not viable without a thriving middle class. The bubble pushed us toward becoming a third world city of the wealthy and the poor. And this is what the bubble did BEFORE it started to burst and lead to whatever economic dislocations everyone in this country will now have to absorb.

A little anger seems appropriate.

[Athol Kay]

Hi there.

Thanks for the link love to my Bad MLS Photo of the Day pages, I appreciate it.

@ Inland Empire. The majority of the photos on places like Realtor.com etc get their feed from the individual Multiple Listing Systems, so yeah they count. Basically I just look for a professional RE person trying to sell a house with a terrible photo.

There is a fine line between "Bad photos" and "Photos of total dumps". Show me a $1M listing with a photos from a cell phone camera and we're golden :-)

[CD]

Hurrah for NOWAYINLA.and RANDY ADAMS
That is it in a Nut Shell.

[EconE]

Angry Victors?

Too funny.

I don't think that the bubble bloggers are poking their finger in the chests of realtors and homeowners saying "I told you so" Most people are still in denial about the bubble and are clueless to how big and out of control it actually is. Realtors still show their collective stupidity when they say that "Now Is A Great Time To Buy!"

Bah...now is a great time to staple the Credit Suisse ARM reset chart to the wall to continually remind oneself that there are MANY MANY MANY more resets to come and sitting on the sidelines is the place to be.

The Majority of the RE blogs that the L.A. times article lists have been thoroughly discredited by their past comments. (RCG & BH) Someone on RCG had a comment that "They could give a RA about Banks" alluding to the fact that banks are "insignificant" when it comes to the RE market. And this came from a veteran agent...who also has a subprime loan.

I think that bubble bloggers are just tired of trying to explain the whole "jist" of the bubble to Realtors with GED's and no background in Economics and Finance.

The agents are all pissed off *not* because they were wrong and the bubble bloggers point that out, but rather because they are financially screwed as many of them are holding on to "extra" properties that they were planning on flipping which now will financially devastate them.

Warren Buffets "poetic justice" comment is applicable to RE agents also.

[Spam]

"Being angry with Realtors over the "bubble" makes about as much sense as being angry with the gas station attendant over the price at the pump"

I can tell what the price is at every gas station without access to the Multiple Gasoline Listing Service. The gasoline attendant does not make a commission based on how much I pay for the gas or how much gas I buy.

[cane]

LA LAND wasn't referenced in the article because it's neither a bubble blog or a real estate agent blog. It's impartial.

[Michael Snyder]

yo spam!
Just like it's impossible to find $2 a gallon gas in LA County a Realtor is limited by the choices listed on that MLS and their clients expectations. BTW, nice handle.

[mbob]

Lefty!

A "duper" deal that's super? Who's the duped? Who's the duper? You?!!!! Are YOU a duper? Who do you dupe?

So for once, I agree with you! Buying a house in metro LA right now is indeed, a "duper" deal! Hey, what the heck, it's a SUPER "duper" deal!

[mbwatcher]

Though I do believe that good agent blogs can help them get business – the premise of this article – I do NOT believe most agents can produce a good blog.

http://mbcon.blogspot.com/2008/02/blogging-agents.html

[Ann]

The article does mention www.thehousingbubbleblog.com by Ben Jones which is my favorite. Ben links stories and information from all over the US and sometimes different places in the world. It does give a wide perspective on how extensive the bubble is and the events surrounding the credit crash.

Another excellent site for southern California data - and one which Peter VIiles will frequently link to or quote - is http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/ . The good 'Doctor" is hellaciously excllent on having hard numbers and tracks the listings and price trends like a hawk.

I concluded that there was a massive bubble 4 years ago in my area without reading any blog or prognostications. I merely looked at the data easily available:

(1) incomes in the area and then ran a price::demand graph based upon purrchasing power;

(2) ran the rent::price ratios

(3) checked the types of financing being marketed (my local banker who even discouraged clients from conventional ARMs was a great source and we gossip about it regularly and pass information back and forth) and then I ran the differences in monthly affordability based upon loan types. Easy to conclude that the weird and funky loans would explode sooner or later based upon the (non-existent) lending standards.

Having that fancy-schmancy economics degree with a specialty in demand and pricing for goods and services at the micro-level did make it easier for me to conclude that the market was inflated and the prices were not sustainable.

The thing is that the same data was readily available to anyone with a few clicks on the keyboard. Anyone could have reached the same conclusions without doing the graphs and charts and by just using a pad and paper.

Is there a bubble? Are the foreclosures ramping up into the veddy veedddyyy upper bracket? Was there 'flipping' in all price ranges and exploding loans?

Well, a property here that was purchased in March 2006 and has been listed for sale since Jan. '07 just went into foreclosure and the notice of auction was published.

The amount owed to the lender - $1,909,800. (And no -that is not a typo - there are 7 digits.)

Original list price - $3,900,000
Current list price - $2,700,000

A second summer home 5 hours from any area with a city of more than 15,000, 2 hours from an interstate and with an airport terminal that would fit in a football field - in foreclosure for $1,900,000 with an 8.85% interest rate.

Assuming that the primary home had only 1/2 that mortgage, just carrying the 2 mortgages alone on traditional lending standards would take an income of $625,000 - and that is ABOVE the income of the top 1% in the US which is $520,000.

This is the 3rd of these kind of huge mortgages to go to foreclosure in the past 5 months - the others were for $1,300,000 and $1,700,000.

The realtors can scream all they want that the market is just fine and only making 'a moderate correction' but the bottom line is the hard numbers and data say otherwise.

$2,000,000+ summer houses wouldn't be going into foreclosure like that if the loans had been conventional loans adhering to the traditional lending standards. People who could truly afford such second homes would have the liquid assets to handle such a mortagage. Ergo the loans were funny money.

[sunsetbeachguy]

Peter:

Ann owes Debbie at HousingDoom a correction!

http://housingdoom.com/2008/02/10/
los-angeles-times-is-wrong/#more-1218

[Anthony Longo]

Boardman is one of our all time fav's!

[sfvrealestate]

I loved the article -- especially since I've become addicted to blogging (click on my name for my east San Fernando Valley link). Why am I not more critical/snarky about local listings? Because there's just no accounting for taste. And if the condition (bad) doesn't warrant the purchase price (high), the seller will find out soon enough. And also because I find the following real estate platitude to be true: it's easier to sell the crummiest house in a nice neighborhood than it is to sell the nicest house in a nice neighborhood. Go figure. But it's true.

[Laker]

Ann, You said the owner owes the bank 1,900,000 with an 8.85% interest rate and currently received a notice of auction. (NTS ?) Also, you said that the house is currently for sale for $2,700,000.
That sound very very stupid. We do not know what the owner paid for it but i would assume it is more than $1,900,000. SO WHY THE HECK DON'T THEY LOWER THE ASKING PRICE AND SELL THE DAMN THING? The bank will take it back in auction...the seller today can probably sell for more than $1,900,000. So seller, lower you asking to $1.9M and get rid of it and keep you credit intact. However, maybe the market price of this place is lower than $1,900,000...Then how the seller expect to get $2,700,000....pleaseeee help these deadbeats.