A drive-by, an AK-47 and SWAT: Welcome to your starter neighborhood

In a report earlier this week, the California Association of Realtors discussed affordability of "entry level" homes in Los Angeles. The Realtors calculated it would take household income of $86,700 a year to buy a home priced at $433,200, which the Realtors figure is an entry-level home in this county. Only 27 percent of the households in the county can afford that, the group said.

What kind of home might you get for that kind of money? And in what kind of neighborhood? For $399,800, you could buy a very small house on Estara Avenue just north of downtown. Two bedrooms, one bath, only 572 square feet.

The listing describes this little house as a "First time Buyer's Alternative ...  a great property with good size fenced Yard lots of room for your children to Play."

While playing, your children could look out in the street and see the terrifying scene above. The house is a stone's throw from the spot where police today shot and killed one man and wounded another after a wild incident that began with a drive-by shooting.

I don't mean to pick on this neighborhood -- there are no doubt hard-working people there struggling to make a better life, and home ownership plays a role in that quest. My point is this: There is something not right about paying $400,000 for a tiny house in a neighborhood the police described today as "a base of operations for Avenues gang members."

Four hundred thousand dollars for a tiny house in a neighborhood where violence is common, according to a man named Juan Soto. "This kind of incident happens about once a month," Soto told the L.A. Times. "This is not the first time."

I understand that Los Angeles has become a very expensive city in recent years. I'm afraid I don't fully understand why.

Thoughts? Comments? E-mail story tips to peter.viles@latimes.com
Photo credit: L.A. Times

Comments

[sandiegan]

"I understand that Los Angeles has become a very expensive city in recent years. I'm afraid I don't fully understand why."

Money.
Jobs.
Poverty, real poverty,poverty of hunger, disease, filth and much, much worse violence across the border in Mexico.
Weather.
Growth.
Urban attractions.
Cheap credit.

As for what happened in NE LAX yesterday: it was horrible. But it is NOT limited to bad 'hoods in LAX.

We have firepower...and we are willing to use it.
Even in affluent suburbs.
Even in university classrooms.

Anyone who thinks they can flee gun violence completely in the US is a fool.

No.
This is not an anti-2nd ammendment rant.
Just a reminder that we are all in this, no matter where we live in this country.

[kat]

You can buy a $400,000 home on a $86,000 household income?! What the hell. Is the math different out there too?

My household income is a modest $115,000. There is no way in hell I could afford a $3,000 a month mortgage. No way. Not even if I didn't have a kid in college and one on the way to college would I be willing to pay $3,000 a month to live in a dump.

Who comes up with these figures anyway? No wonder fast food managers have million dollar homes in foreclosure.

Here is what seems to be "normal" in California: A 525 sq. ft. home in a DMZ is $400,000. People with an annual income of $86,000 can "afford" a $400,000 mortgage. A "starter" home is half a million dollars.

Folks, you have more troubles than a slumping housing market.

[PREFAB SPROUT]

LA is fast becoming New York City. The super rich live in their gate/guarded communities with private patrols. The poor live in increasingly violent neighborhoods. And the middle class is beating a hasty retreat to the suburbs or out of state. As a lucky SoCal resident who bailed out 5 yrs ago all I can say is good luck to those I left behind!

[TakeFive]

Fourth Generation wrote:

"It is amazing that xenophobic bigots like JK still live in this country.........."

Yes, let's live in denial about any causes for these problems that may offend our politically correct sensibilities.

The fact is L.A. has essentially protected illegal aliens - see Special Order 40 – and created a large cohort of lawbreakers. When people start to take shortcuts, whether ethical, moral, or in business, they tend to take them again and again.

So someone’s in the country illegally, but they just want to do honest work. Sounds good. But they need to drive and can’t get a license so they drive with out one. Ditto for car insurance. Have an accident – no problem, your invisible to the system. Need a new identity – again, no problem. You can even open a bank account and get a home loan.

See where this is going?

So here’s the deal “Fourth Generation”. Open the doors to your home. Let anyone wander in and make themselves at home. And if you so much as say one unkind word, consider yourself a bigot.

[CD]

In Peter's post yesterday :" please cover the other side"
One of your blogger: -No WayinLA- had an excellent comment. If I may repeat a portion here again because he nailed it:
-The short form of this is that, though housing prices will continue to plummet, they may not be affordable yet. The people who worked hard to save, living in a dumpy apartment in a scary neighborhood will see their savings reduced by inflation and taxes. Add that to crumbling neighborhoods, and this will accelerate the flight of the middle class from the state...Which in turn contributes to urban decay, flight of businesses ( gotta go where the talent is) and the loss of all the tax revenue the two produce.-
NowayinLA is showing us the correct vision of the future. Lets get the big Atlas out, I am going to find a new place to live.

[abbytherabbit]

You can get a nice home in Canoga Park, the nicer side, for the mid 300k and lower 400k. It's working class but not gang infested. I've lived there for over 5 years now and never had a problem. I work in Woodland Hills and spend $20 a week for gas and go home for lunch.

It is possible to get a starter home in LA without living in a slum.

[DSL]

JK is just stating facts, whether you choose to ignore it or not. Just learn to deal with it instead of falling back to the usual hyperdefensive liberal knee-jerk response.

[TrojanDLA]

To be fair, you can get a decent condo in Downtown LA for $430,000 or LESS. Since my specialty is Downtown condos, here's what I can throw out for people to compare:

MLS 07-237373: It's around 800 s.f. but HOA dues are $660/mo. Located on 1100 Wilshire, definitely an upgrade.

MLS 06-143073: or move to Bunker Hill at 800 W.1st and 700s.f. of living space. Though $625 HOA is still taxing.

MLS 08-245793: ok this Bunker Hill studio at 800 W.1st sounds like it will fit the bill. Although only 480s.f. , it ONLY lists for $387,000 but I guarantee you can get it for $350,000. HOA is better at $400.

Sooo... a family working hard to make $87,000 and can only move into a 480s.f. studio? Well, if it's all about location, that family will be living in Bunker Hill and attending the new school that's being built on Beaudry.

Yes, prices are exorbitant, but seriously, you don't "have to" live in Watts when you can live in Downtown for a comparable price. If I'm not mistaken, units at the new Chapman Lofts is starting at a little under $400,000 - BRAND NEW too.

[Left of Left of Lefty]

Hurry up and get inside before the bullets getcha! Now's a great time to buy in Metro L.A.!

[sheila]

if you have to wonder why it's so expensive here, clearly you don't look at the comments. 90% of people commenting here are GAGGING to buy a house in LA. yes, most of them are bitter they don't just automatically get a great house at a price they can afford in a good neighborhood, since that's what we have been brainwashed to believe we deserve, but they are desperate to buy here, all the same.

tons of people who make their money in less "glamorous" places move here when they "make it big." that means immigrants (yeah, there are plenty of rich ones, too, JKKK), midwesterners, inland empirers, etc. LA is perceived as desirable because of the beaches, the "hollywood" scene, the relative racial/cultural tolerance (certain posters here aside), the great weather and the comparative affordability to other major urban centers (you want to see expensive, check out NYC, London, Paris, Tokyo, Hong Kong!!!).

It's a global economy now, the dollar is ridiculously weak, many in our parents' generation made a KILLING on appreciation in RE, so they can shell out large down payments for their kids, Cleveland is still Cleveland, and LA will always be seen as a sunny, friendly, glamorous place to people who won't ever even have to drive near Glassell Park (as in, 90% of rich people).

Fair or not, not every home buyer in LA is a blue-collar, working joe, starting with nothing and frantically recalculating their debt-to-income ratio every monday morning, and socking away $250 of every paycheck for their down payment. You want to do that, you gotta move somewhere cheaper, make your money, and come back with a big wad of cash...

[Ed]

Posted by: Fourth Generation | February 22, 2008 at 08:08 AM

Fourth Generation said: "It is amazing that xenophobic bigots like JK still live in this country.........."

Fourth Generation, where exactly is the State of Denial that you live in? You and others like you have tossed the words "racist" around to where the term is now meaningless. Now you come up with "xenophobic bigot" when someone is discussing an area filled with illegal ALIENS and GANG-BANGERS. Do you know what a gang-banger is? Do you know what an illegal ALIEN is? JK called them "illegal immigrants," when in fact they're CRIMINALS and their children are CRIMINALS and they're filling up our prisons faster than stink on $hit. Get a life, you moron!

[john galt]

more facts: illegal immigrant sneaks across border, gets job using fake ss#. Easily gets ITIN number from IRS. Gets w2 from job and files taxes using ITIN number and claiming relatives in Mexico as dependents(who also have ITIN numbers). Illegal immigrant gets money from Fed. while the person's number he used gets a letter from IRS saying he owes money. Now, illegal immigrant finds a girl. Safe sex or contraception are not even a blip on their radar screens. So, illegal has a couple of kids and they all live in a converted garage. After a few more years and probably a few more children, illegal immigrant finds another woman, leaves the first with the children and starts to have children with the second. Years go by, kids grow up fatherless and in an environment where there's no possible way to succeed and...tada....gang problems.

[kosher krab]

Ahhh - you poor folk. From my living room I can look through the palm trees to watch the cruise ships come into a port that hasn't seen a homicide in decades. We just moved out of NELA and I couldn't be happier. That being said, I still wouldn't give up on Glassell Park. I think it's really on the cusp of becoming the next hot spot and this last incident may just be the catalyst needed to saturate the area with LAPD and get rid of the Avenues. Remember how scary Atwater Village used to be? That area turned around so fast after the police crack down that I missed being able to buy on the "ground floor". Silver Lake took a little longer to spruce up, but then Echo Park rose overnight. I think closer to downtown is the way of the future, Glassell Park is poised to reap the benefits of being between Silver Lake, Eagle Rock and downtown. The smoke just needs to settle a bit.

[xtine]

PREFAB-Wake up.

THERE ARE NO GATED COMMUNITIES IN NEW YORK CITY.

Private patrols? WHAT? Are you out of your mind?

Have you even lived in NYC?

Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Because NYC is dense, tight and anti car - NO ONE lives in a bubble. Because of rent control and rent stabilization left over even in the richest nabes, it is one of the most diversely mixed cities in the country. The subways, which even the most affluent folks use, are dense with people of all walks of life. Cantral Park is 100% accessible and is the entire city's backyard.

You can't run away in New York. You live in the middle of everything.

I keep reading your post and wondering what fictional accout you get your information from. Is this what middle America thinks NYC is? Gated communities with private patrols? Ugh.

[The Problemwithcaring]

Back when I was a potential knife catcher, my realtor pressed me toward the neighborhoods around 90032 - the next gentrified area!

yea right.

and thank gawd!

[puckehad]

"I live in a house that is brand new, is 6 times bigger (sits on a half acre), costs half as much, and is so safe you don't even need to lock your doors at night.....

My advice to those who live in California: ............ Move to a new state...."

For a while I had the same thought. Until I did some researched and found out that I would have a hard time finding a job in my profession. And if I did, I would have to take a 50% paycut. And I also would not be able to mountain bike and ski on the same day. That's the flip side of moving out of state.

[Ed]

Posted by: chris | February 22, 2008 at 06:59 AM

Chris said, "There is way too much vitriol in this post and comments - "struggling" "slum" "illegal immigrants".....................hard working people actually want to live in central Los Angeles, not way out in a white-washed suburb....."

Hey Chris - It's okay to be vitriolic and use terms like "white-washed"? Sounds xenophobic and bigoted to me. Sure is a one-way street, isn't it?!

Better watch your mouth. You're offending the liberal sensibilities of people like Fourth Generation. Oh wait, he's no doubt white. No offense taken with him because there's no "mileage" he can get out of it.

[ScreenScribbler]

I have to say this post is somewhat seeped in Westside snobbery. People adore Venice, and it's chocked with celebs like Julia Roberts. It's also a great place to find crack vials and hypodermics scattered on the sidewalk, to stumble on a dead homeless person in a puddle of urine, to hear the sound of drive-by gunfire during the dinner hour. So while Estara Avenue may not be paradise, the prices there are less than half of what they are in Venice. When will you be doing a piece on ridiculous prices in trendy-but-crime-infested 310 neighborhoods?

[Cal]

abbytherabbit: "It's working class but not gang infested. I've lived there for over 5 years now and never had a problem."

Uhh, Canoga Park is home to the to the worst gang in LA according to the top 10 list released by Mayor Villiarogosa, the Alabama's.

Google: Canoga Park alabama gang

Canoga Park has some ok areas but those areas are within walking distance of the bad areas. But then again, so are some of the nicest parts of Pasadena.

[Helpful Person]

Peter: maybe consider moving back to NYC. Im sure that you guys can afford in Manhattan or Brooklyn, right? And there's no violent crime there either, right?

Of if that doesn't work out, just cut to the chase and move to Idaho already.

[Anonymous]

To all the angry commenters who love to bandy around empty catchphrases like "politcally correct" and "liberal knee-jerk," you might want to consider the facts and then calm down a little bit. I imagine you've never been to Detroit, Oakland, or Baltimore, cities with far worse crime/gang problems and far lower percentages of illegal immigrants. Gang problems have everything to do with poverty and very little to do with whether a person is a citizen or an illegal immigrant. Your seething anger comes through your comments so vividly that I doubt it's a healthy state of being. You should probably seek help.

[jaded]

Kat (and all you other out-of-staters),

yes, living in California can be a pain in the as$, but quit wagging your superior little fingers at us. You don't really know what you're missing, do you?

Let's start with the mild winters, and short sleeves on Christmas Day. The change of seasons, snow, whatever--grossly overrated. Let's talk about spring flowers and green hills in February, and cheap and plentiful fresh fruits and vegetables any time of year, and neighbors giving you more homegrown lemons, avocados and tomatoes than you can possibly eat. Let's talk about driving up to ski Big Bear on Saturday, and out to 85-degree Palm Springs on Sunday, or sailing out on the ocean less than an hour from your front door. How about dropping in on a world-class museum, and window shopping Cartier at South Coast Plaza? How about taking in a Dodger game on a perfect summer night, or sunning yourself at the Rose Bowl at a football game in November, with the San Gabriel Mountains as a backdrop? What about checking out the Ferraris in Newport Beach, and then taking a long walk around the Back Bay with herons and kingfishers and birds you've never even heard of? Let's talk about the fires and the landslides and all the other natural disasters we have because we live in a wild land, and not some flat, square state. How about Thai food made by Thais and Ethiopian and Cuban and Moroccan restaurants, and the hole in the wall places where you can get some of the best food in the world?

You can live in BF Arkansas or Indiana, or any other place you want where the houses cost $35,000 on an acre of swamp land and there's nothing to do but while away time at the local Walmart, or shovel snow or swat mosquitoes as big as birds. But stop tsk-tsking about how bad it must be to be here, because you don't know what you're talking about.

Me, I'm staying here, in my small, overpriced suburban house with the patio and the community pool and the outdoor mall down the backed-up freeway, because life is pretty damn nice here, all things considered.

[SGV]

About 20 years ago, I was DWP meter reader and that area (Drew, Andrita, etc) was my "beat" over a span of about 5-7 years. During that time, I watched how, slowly but methodically, numerous single-family homes (really nice, cute 1910-era Craftsman bungalows with generous yards) were being replaced with large apartments. These appeared to be low-income units as I remember stepping into dirty diapers that were thrown out of windows regularly, or waded through piles of trash left for weeks. Stripped down, or disabled cars on the street were a common sight.

The families of the single-family homes moved away -- one by one -- as the neighborhood quickly turned into a ghetto slum due to the aggressive development. I can't count the number of my customers who said they were "getting the heck outta' there due to the quickly deteriorating neighborhood.

I am a "non-white." It is with that perspective that I can say that unfortunately, Mr. John Galt hit it right on the head.

[clive]

Money. (not changed in the last 5 years)
Jobs. (not changed in the last 5 years)
Poverty, real poverty,poverty of hunger, disease, filth and much, much worse violence across the border in Mexico. (not changed in the last 5 years)
Weather. (not changed in the last 5 years)
Growth. (not changed in the last 5 years)
Urban attractions. (not changed in the last 5 years)
Cheap credit. (Big change in the last 5 years)

Hmmm, wonder what's behind the increased prices, and if it'll last?

And LA becoming like New York? Hilarious. I didn't realize LA just became one of the world's financial capitals. Where's the stock exchange?

[Paul]

The Avenues gang aren't illegal immigrants. They've been prevalent since the 1950s.