Living in L.A., and liking it

Good morning, and thanks to all those who commented on the post "Leaving L.A., Leaving California." But on further review, I think I screwed up on that post.

I asked, "Why are people moving out of L.A. and California?" which was a fair question but also leading -- an invitation for L.A.-bashing.  I could have asked a more balanced question, something along the lines of, "How do you rate the quality of life in L.A.? Is living here worth the price?"

While I'm at it, full disclosure: My wife and I moved here 3 1/2 years ago from New York because we wanted to live here and we thought we'd like it here. We do. We like the parks, the mountains, the beaches, the weather, the farmer's markets, the professional opportunities, the restaurants, the people, and the constant, sprawling, urban energy of Los Angeles.  Our kids play outside almost every day -- we like that.

We haven't figured out how to make peace with the three-headed beast of schools, housing and traffic, and those are sources of anxiety and even doubt.  L.A. turned out to be more expensive than we thought. We study the region and try to figure out whether it is becoming a better place to live or a worse place.  We are hoping for better.

Your thoughts?
Photo Credit: "Venice Boy Wonders," submitted to Your Scene at LATimes.com by Hanif.

Comments

[Francis Lee]

Why I love Los Angeles -

First, I'm of Chinese descent. This means if I want to fit in without sticking out socially, there are a limited number of places I can live in this country. Los Angeles has a great place for ethnic diversity.

It's hard to overstate how important this is to one's well being. Housing issues aside, if I were a white person I'd move to a lot of other places. But as a single person, you want your dating prospects as good as they can get. For this reason I'm paying an incredible housing premium for my own ethnic "comfort".

[ISoMissInvestorguy]

The cost of living in L.A. is high but clearly worth it.

The question is:
How can we bring some more of those people who can't afford it along for the great ride?

[sunsetbeachguy]

Pete:

Shhh!

Let the haters leave ASAP and allow the people who want to make LA home deal with the challenges.

This topic is analogous to Leo Nordine's answer to your question about where he surfs in So Cal.

[LA]

LA's a great place because:
1. The weather is great.
2. We are exposed to many different cultures. I love that we can go to some of the best and authentic restaurants in Chinatown, Koreatown, Micro Tokyo or Little Saigon. Their supermarkets are fun, too.
3. We have the beach right here. And skiiling is only 90 minutes away.
4. We have San Francisco, Napa Valley, Las Vegas and San Diego within driving distance.
5. We have the UC university system. Yes, it's not just for LA. But, the whole UC system is available to the LA residents.
6. We have some of the finest medical facilities in the world.
7. We have the Dodgers stadium and the Staples Center. We have USC football. We even have David Beckham.
8. We have the resources of a large metropolitan area at our disposal, yet we can choose to live in a suburban setting.

Now about the negatives:
1. Housing - yes, it's expensive. It's not a problem if you're already a homeowner. If you're not, wait a few years. Prices will come down.
2. Education - Not all the schools can be equally good in a large metropolitan area. There are excellent school distrcts throughout the greater LA area. Go live in those school districts.
3. Traffic - I like LA's car culture. I don't care for public transportation. I'd rather sit in traffic in my car than sit on a bench waiting for a bus.

[planetmort]

I moved to L.A. in 2000 and love it here. Why? Well, for one, I adore the ocean and water-related activities. I swim, pretend to surf (I am awful at it, but enjoy myself), sail, and scuba dive year round here. I grew up in rural New England so I appreciate the weather immensely, and I also appreciate the smorgasboard of activities and cultural diversity a large city affords. I love the different feel of L.A. different neighborhoods. Walking around the West Side is different than walking around Silverlake is different than walking around Pasadena or Inglewood or Venice or... (you get the picture). I love that people are friendly here, generally. The other places I've lived in my life have had much surlier general populations, and in fact one of the first things I noticed after moving here was that people were (mostly) polite, cheerful, and hey, they actually smiled. I love that L.A. is so accepting of outsiders and newcomers, a trait noticeably missing in other places I've lived.

All that said, sure, there are things I don't like about L.A. Who loves traffic? (though honestly, I'll deal with traffic over nasty weather any day). The cost of living is stupid-high (It could be worse; it could be like San Francisco!), and I don't like that, but you can't have everything in life, so, for now at least, I'll take what L.A. offers.

[Susan]

I moved to L.A. from the Mojave desert 35 years ago to attend college, never dreaming I'd stay in a huge, sprawling city. Turns out, I love it, and stayed. I love the fact that I can be at the mountains or ocean, opera or philharmonic or wonderful music in every genre, fantastic restaurants, basketball, unusual performance art, unparalled museums of all types-- all within a relatively short period of time. I live in the South Bay, near the beach, so my air quality is very good and the (free, public) schools excellent.

I'm sure many of the things I love about L.A. are the same things folks everywhere in big cities enjoy about theirs. But I'm here, and the weather suits me; there is no greener grass (for me). Of course, I already own a house here.

[Hula Girl]

Ahhh, Peter. You know complaints always outnumber compliments. Bad news and bad press sells. I hope I'm wrong but I suspect the 'Leavin" LA' post will be much longer than the 'Lovin' LA post.

And, I do Love LA. Missed it when I lived in Hawaii and dreamed about in when I lived in the (Deep) South. L.A. may be the shallow end of America's swimming pool (see body implants and celebrity worship), but it's a heady mix of arts, culture, intellect and endless ethnic cuisine choices. Nothing's perfect. Anywhere. But LA is more perfect than most.

[Yiling]

I also moved here from NY, Manhattan, specifically. When I moved to LA in 1999 at age 24, I was just looking for a change.

Moving to LA has definitely been one of the best decisions of my life. I am concerned about school, I plan on sending my children to private school until there is an overhaul of the school system, which may not happen anytime soon.

We bought a house in 2003 before the housing prices went up, so cost of housing is actually comparable to NY's rent for us.

As for traffic... we've learned to deal with it, and we try to stay within 10 miles of where we live. If we must venture future, we just grin and bare it. I personally don't mind the traffic, cause no matter how bad traffic can get, i just remind myself that i don't have to walk in snow and rain to get to the subway and then ride for at least 30 mins to an hour to get to my destination.

Our kids play outside in the big backyard we have, it's sooo much better than NY.

For me LA has the things I always wanted growing up in NY, a house with a big backyard, being in a city, driving around, nice weather.

[Dr. JwB]

I just moved back to LA, after 6 years in Boston and 1.5 in Phoenix. I'm shocked by the traffic (I need to get used to it, AGAIN), and I'm shocked by the cost of food (especially milk), but is it worth it?

Yes, but we didnt have a choice! LA was the only place where my wife and I could both get work in our fields. So here we are.

We've managed to avoid much of the traffic by living only a few miles from work, but the other two heads of the beast (schools and buying a home) will come back to bite us in the rear in a few years. Not sure what we can do about that, except to hope for a housing downturn.

[Playa Del Rey]

I moved here from the East Coast three years ago and fell in love with it. The beach, the weather the joie de vive that defines the Southern California lifestyle.

What tickles me are the people who have moved out of state and continue to make negative comments. IF where they moved to is all that; why do they still hover around this blog?? Isn't there something more exciting about where they moved than reading their old papers housing blog?

[#4]

People that don't like LA or have moved away don't want to hear the millions that love it here and enjoy it. Its a big city with the associated problems, not just on the scale of the American big cities, but on the scale of international big cities.

I also bought my house when it was reasonable, so I have no complaints. Over the years, my commute time has dropped from over an hour to just 15 minutes. this is often the unrecognized benefit, that jobs are abundant here. Jobs for someone with my skill set, are abundant, and pay very well. In turn, the commute is a non-issue for me.

Additionally, the problem with schooling my children is not a problem. When I bought my house, I bought it with location and schools in mind. I get a nice coastal breeze, and my kids go to a good school relative to the rest of the country.

I am extremely fortunate to lead the life I do here in this city. Besides, why would I leave any city that has the Lakers?

[TakeFive]

I've lived in LA (specifically San Gabriel Valley) my entire life, and like it just fine - Although Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo seem awfully nice when I visit.

Housing's not a problem; bought an REO during the last crash for a bargain, as many of you will be able to soon.

Traffic is tolerable - mostly because I work only 4 miles from home.

Got lucky on the schools. My district is marginal, but the next one over is excellent and needed students (probably due to exorbitant home prices driving out families). Got my kids in on a transfer.

Take heart ye landless peasants - we're getting to the part where meek shall inherit the earth as the banks begin to fire-sale their properties.

[NoCal SC]

Sorry Peter, I'm an expat. I moved up to the Bay Area 12 years ago and would never move back (though we're down there for every SC home game).

The only thing I miss about L.A. are the beaches (going to the beach while wearing Polarfleece and watching out for killer rogue waves doesn't really do it for me).

[toby]

Yes I love the weather and climate but it's the food that really makes this place special.

Organic vegetables and fruits from the Farmer's Markets (which happens year around...every Sunday), fresh fish, the best wines in the world....

But really, it's the Sushi. LA has, hands down, the VERY BEST Sushi in...the world.

And I know "What about Tokyo?", the problem with eating Sushi in Tokyo is that it's a "Shut up and eat and when you're full, get the heck out of the Sushi bar". Whereas in LA, you can sit down, have a conversation and really enjoy the great meal you're about to have.

And for the ones who hate sushi but never tried it in LA. Then of course you don't like sushi, who would? It's like drinking Kansas Wine, it's not a required taste...it's just bad.

And for those who love Sushi but never tried in in LA...I have to warn you, once you try LA Sushi, you wont be able to eat any but LA Sushi. It's truly the best.

[Keith]

The only thing that makes LA worth it is the "Los Angeles" Angels,you all know it.

[mbob]

If you are in The Business, then you're here or somewhere else that doesn't matter. Period.

Married a native, got involved in local politics everywhere we've lived. No faster way to feel at home than get in a scrap with the local forces of evil.

The Small Farmers Journal used to offer a great bumper sticker: "Go Slow, Get Small, Mix it Up." That's still true.

FWIW, this region never made sense until experienced from horseback. Then it all fell into place, for me at least. The same goes for the residents of Compton's Richland Farms area, where livestock makes an oppressive setting bearable.

Everyone finds their own "Querencia," which is the spot in the bull ring where matadors know a bull will always go when it seeks a moment's respite from its tormentors.

I hear a surfboard works pretty well, too. Or try a farmers' market.

Despuis, amigos.

[eprobert]

I love LA - it's home for me. I'm a 4th-generation southern californian and I simply will not live anywhere else. It has its bad things, but for me I really feel deep-down that I have no other choice. I've lived in other countries for a few years at a time, but I always return to socal.

It's interesting that most of the people posting in this thread are all long-time house owners. I do not own a house, but I'm smart and educated and I have lived here long enough to know that prices ALWAYS go down after they go up. My parents bought in 1981 in a downturn in San Diego, and they bought in 1995 in a downturn, and so on.

In a couple of years it will be my turn. Then newcomers will arrive, prices will go up and the whole thing will start over again. It's a zero-sum game for society as a whole. If you can't stomach the ups and downs, and you want to buy a house before age 35, don't move here.

[JK]

I notice that just about all the people that "love" LA so much already own homes

[Leavin' LA]

I love living in LA -- even though I left. There's no place like it. But sometimes, we have to make decisions for bigger reasons. I our case it was economics and education.

But I will always love LA. Mornings in the Marina. Lunch on the Reel Inn followed by a long drive up PCH. The holidays in east LA. Hiking Lookout Mountain and other steep streets off Laurel Canyon. Coffee on Beverly Drive on a summer Saturday afternoon. Hanging with friends in Silverlake and watching the sun set from their deck. Driving Mulholland the day after a good rain. Driving to Mammoth. Camping at Joshua Tree. The sheer unbridled hope of each new wave of dreamers that roll into town from wherever every spring after graduation.

LA is a one of a kind place. I will also always like living there. But for now, my family's life is better lived somewhere else.

[Milla G]

yay, LA lovers unite! it's the best place to live and the naysayers just need to leave, stay out and shut up. as a native who's done some traveling, i know that this town is great for all the reasons everyone above me has already outlined. yes, you have to work harder at it than most cities because LA does not offer its secrets to you on a plate at the airport. you need to ferret out the good people and places, but if you keep the faith, you will find them because they are here.

anyone who thinks LA is only superficial is looking at LA only superficially and spending their weekends on the sunset strip. sure, housing sucks, which means you start small, with a condo in culver city, and keep trading up until you can afford that mansion in los feliz. and yes, it's possible. you just have to be patient and work hard and have faith and buy during a down market like this one. (and no, i don't own my own home, but you better believe i will be buying one soon enough. real estate in cali will always be a good bet in the grand scheme of things.)

there's so much quality here on so many levels, and in LA -- and cali, in general -- you can be whoever and however you want to be without judgment or questions asked. there's a freedom of being here you don't find just anywhere. this town is the epitome of the american dream.

[Liz]

To state the obvious - whether you like living somewhere depends on your personal circumstances.

I grew up in Ventura County and my parents grew up in Santa Barbara. When I was young (60's to 80's), in my family's view, you didn't go to LA unless you had to because it was so unbearable.

In my 20's (mid-80's to mid-90's) I loved living in LA. My boyfriend was in a band and I had a lot of career ambition. LA was a great place to live this lifestyle.

Now that I'm middle aged, I don't want to put up with the traffic, crime and smog. I bought my house in 2000 so the cost of housing was not a problem for me and I don't have kids so the education system isn't a deciding factor. I lived in the Hollywood Hills - I didn't like it because my personality didn't jibe with that lifestyle.

Living in a clean, green, laid back friendly place matters to me now. We've found that lifestyle in New Zealand. Will we stay here forever - who knows, we'll have to see how it goes.

LA is obviously appealing to certain people. If you are in the entertainment industry there probably isn't a better place to live (maybe New York?). Or if you come from somewhere with no opportunity, it must look like paradise.

[Pinky]

I'm soo happy to see that many people love LA just as I do.
Your earlier blog with all of it's comments made me think the whole country hated LA. It really saddened me.
People are different and they all have their own opinions.
But I was in a bit of shock.
Well! =)
I love LA, I don't think I'll ever leave.

[NoWayinLA]

Playa Del Rey wrote: "What tickles me are the people who have moved out of state and continue to make negative comments. IF where they moved to is all that; why do they still hover around this blog?? Isn't there something more exciting about where they moved than reading their old papers housing blog?"

I can explain why I still hover around this blog:

1) Because I'm still an Angels and (sad to say) Kings fan, and this site is a good place to keep up on both.

2) Because, as someone displaced by the housing bubble, I'm interested in seeing how the story ends.

3) Because the financial sector is taking a beating on the stock market right now, and I smell an opportunity. There will be some Chapter 13s, leveraged buyouts, and Congressional hearings before the whole thing shakes out, but when prices become aligned to the market again, whoever is left standing will rebound in a HUGE way.

[scdave]

Living in LA? As a native Californian, I couldn't find a better place. I love the multi-cultural aspect of this town. Actually, its a great place to raise kids. I take my children to as many different ethnically diverse museums, restaurants, festivals so they can learn to respect all nationalities. Second, my kids attend great schools. How? Permits work. Just make sure your kids are scoring Advanced on the CST exams and any school will take them. Of course, thats a lot of work. Traffic. I live in a great nieghborhood of well kept homes 10 minutes from work. I am less than a hour from the beaches, mountains, deserts, farms in oxnard and as mentioned above so many different cultural place to visit. Sports teams, concerts, amuzment parks, blah, blah. Higher Education USC UCLA Cal States, Community Colleges. If you find a better place, please leave and take all these exra people with you.

[Christian]

I will say that the best part of living in los angeles is the food. I have lived all over the world and los angeles has the most authentic food from the most countries all reasonably close.

But as an environmentalist it can be depressing to live here. Watching the suburbs continually creep east and north as more people. Become obsessed with the idea of home ownership and better public schools.

Seeing this thread is just a reminder of the unshakable need to own a home in los angeles and how so few seem to enjoy life until that goal is met. With the population of california over 30 million we need to let it go.

Also bicycling around los angeles is amazingly fast and easy, especially on the east side.

[melissa black]

Hello to everyone from a REAL lover of Los Angeles! My husband and i live here in the Phoenix area - and well - before the writers strike - we came iup quite often to see the t.v. show tapings of such shows as two and a half men, raymond, just shoot me, according to jim, jimmy kimmel,etc... and i always have the BEST time in such a wonderful city - and as busy as i am here running my music school - i am on these blogs every day - love all of the information - also visit the orange county area too - yorba linda,etc... We have been to your area for 24 great trips in the last three or four years and am looking forward to many more - lets get this strike over with so a few of my comrades can get back to work! Also bring our pekingese for every visit - lots of cool pics on my web-site. Merry christmas everyone and again L.A. - thanks for all of the good times -

[#4]

One of the fascinating aspects of the Southland is how much of it we all don't know. We all live in our respective cities, and we all have our respective niches within the Southland. However, once you step outside of your comfort zone, you'll discover how rich and vibrant each others neighborhoods are. Indeed there are more places to go and see than just Old Town Pasadena, Citywalk, Westwood, The Grove, Santa Monica, etc. Farmer's markets (where the heck are all these farms anyways), newly revitalized downtowns. While most regions can claim 1 or 2 vibrant areas, they are abundant in our region.

[Asianfetish]

Immigrated to LA at age of 9. Lived and went to university here until about ten years ago. Due to continuing education/job I lived at least 1 month at a time in (chonological order) Hawaii, San Diego, New York, San Francisco, Nassau (bahamas), Caracas, New York again, North Adams (MA), London, Bristol (UK), Paris, Athens, New York third time, Miami Beach then back to LA last year. At each locale, all I dreamed about was coming back and live in LA again. It is hard to say what one factor makes LA more attractive than anywhere else. LA is unique but difficult to characterize its charm. It probably is combination of many. While it is easy to criticize LA (the faults are obvious and are almost exclusively of monetary concerns), I still have not met any ex pats who did not miss the place. If one has the means, most would choose to stay. I love the city life and cannot think of anywhere else I would rather live.

[RJ1]

Weather, People, Joy, Food, Urban, Multi Cultural, Sports, Entertaining, Diverisity, (LA)
Really, if people hated LA they wouldnt even be bothering reading these articles; n jus move to a cheaper city else where. I did it, and regret it. so why do people place comments saying negative remarks? Expensive housings the only bad thing.Ipersonaly live in a southern state now. Lived in LA 6 years ago. Now, I Visit, Dream, Think, Read, & need to figure how the heck can I move back to LA.
"Its really a nice place to live" other than expensive housing.
Still, I'm going to pay three times as much more money & sweat, just to live there, as I do here!! I've lived in Phoenix, Vegas, Texas & now Albuquerque. My kids deserve the best. no place like LA!!
IT'LL BE WORTH IT!!

[Dan Moran]

Los Angeles is a terrible place. Bad for adults, bad for children. The culture is corrupt, everything costs too much, the beaches are polluted, the air is unbreathable, and no one knows how to drive in the damn rain.

Everyone who moved was right to do so. Please, please don't come back. Thank you.

[are they crazy]

I think it's harder to love LA if you grew up here, went someplace else and then came back. 50s and 60s it was paradise. Westwood to Hollywood 20 mins down sunset. Go surfing before school. Actually get to the mountains in about 90 mins and the desert was about an hour and a half. Not much crime - we could wander the neighborhood to all hours during the summer. With that as your view of LA it is shocking to return now. It's so much more crowded and we're constantly bombarded with the idea that there's danger everywhere. Also, the cost of living is so much higher. Used to be you could live pretty comfortably on one income. The weather is different than it used to be also. Used to be much hotter in the summer and the so called June gloom would burn off every day before noon.

[charles]

The nation (and world) is getting so much more decentralized. At one time Los Angeles had all sorts of amenities and products (great food for example) and services that would be difficult to find elsewhere. No more. The internet brings everything to your front door. People in Alabama, Iowa, Colorado, North Dakota have virtually all of the products and services in Los Angeles. Almost anything can be purchased online for cheaper. As for weather, sure LA weather is great. No doubt about it. But who takes advantage of it? The average Southern Californian spends 17 minutes per day outside during the week and 41 minutes per day outside during the weekend. He goes to the beach about twice a year. The rest of the time he's in his car (in killer traffic), online, watching TV, waiting in line somewhere, paying bills, working, eating, etc...just like everyone else across the country. Sure, folks that live right on the beach or really close can regularly take advantage of the beach life and such, but they are a very, very small minority. The draw to Southern California is perpetuated by television. It is the over glamorized (artificial) vision of Los Angeles and "the OC" (no one ever called it "the OC" before that show...) that people believe they will move to.

[Cal]

CAR never.. ever reports before the NAR..

http://www.car.org/index.php?id=MzgwNzU=

Yet, here we are.. late late late on a Friday before a big holiday weekend and they report a horrible report.

[Kathryn]

I think that living in nicer parts of LA are really worth it to many people and that's what will keep the real estate prices up extremely high in those areas.

But I think it's really different in the suburbs of LA with long commutes and vast stretches of nothing but tract housing and strip malls. I don't really see any difference between those areas and many other parts of the country. I think that's where the real estate values are really going to suffer. Seriously, why spend 600K on an average tract home with a long commute, over crowded schools, and so much traffic that you can't get to all the cool things that make LA great?

[LA-renter]

Don't get me wrong, I like LA and may stay here the rest of my life. I'm not in a position to be nostalgic because I've been here less than a year.

There's nothing wrong with being a homer, but the "everybody wants to be here" nonsense gets annoying quickly.

Yes, LA has lots of upsides, but people here need to continue voting for and sacrificing for solutions to glaring problems.

[csalam]

lived in CA 30 years now having moved to SD from chicago when i was a kid ... i like LA alot for alot of reasons, i'm down there all the time for work ... pasadena, los feliz, downey and more ... didn't really get to know it well until the past 5 years but it is clearly one of the us' great cities for a reason ... the energy and the vibe are definitely authentic ... that all said ...

man, i'm glad i live in norcal / ebay, it's home and at a scale that deserves the title ... we should split the state in two at the grapevine and lop you all off ... you all took something pretty great, coastal scal, and thru greed and overpopulation, pretty much took any opportunity for a meaningful quality of life for bohemian and bourgeoise alike and threw it in the toilet ..

we probably would have done the same up here if we weren't so hemmed in my hills and water but geez, so many parts of la are a urine soaked, extremes of income, pointless values cesspool ... [all of which has it's upsides in partial doses], it's pretty clear that one day it's all just gonna metaphorically catch fire and blow away if it hasn't already ...

day of the locusts, rodney king baby ... it's all real in lala land ...

[Niki]

LA in some ways is like "The Emperor's New Clothes". You see what you want to see.

[Witkin]

Why I like living in LA:

1. the world is at your feet ~ great culture, great diversity, great eating
2. Elysian Park ~ the most undervalued urban paradise and talk about those views!!!
3. the restored Griffith Observatory, City Hall & the Disney Hall
4. hidden history & bike paths along the Arroyo Seco
5. you can be whomever you want to be

As someone who has lived spent most of the last 30 years in LA ~ with admitted diversions to other places ~ I always smile when I hear the plaints of the newcomers (here 10 years or less) who lament about housing, traffic and schools. Sadly, they are usually on the Westside and on the competitive path to....

Relax...let go...you too can live a quality LA life by renting in solid but not 'in' neighborhoods, by living close to work, and by home schooling your children or using a neighborhood school.

This is a global city with lots of extremely wealthy people living here. Long ago I decided that I could either make myself crazy trying to compete with them on my meager income (by their standards ~ a fortune by my parents')~ or I could re-align my life so that I could truly enjoy the city. (BTW ~ I've owned 3 homes over the years....none in any hip zip codes but all in nice quiet safe neighborhoods).

I love LA....and I've never been happier here.

PS: Give up your car for a day....walk your neighborhood....take the metro....play in the LA River (yes there are secret spots where you can!) and discover the hidden LA that is always right in front of your eyes.

[dizzle]

89.9 KCRW

Ramen in Little Tokyo.

Tea in China Town.

Expanses.

[joeinlosangeles]

Personally, if you're not in the movie industry, and so have to be here, I think Los Angeles is a less-than-compelling place to live. I can think of many places around the country that I prefer

[Kaeden Yeong]

Living in LA for about 6 years and I am living in Beijing for work reason. I loved LA, no doubt, it's the best city especially for foreigners. I missed driving on Alhambra looking for something delicious to fill my stomach and going south to Monterey Park for some super delicious Chinese dessert. I will then go back to Silver Lake for some burritos and tacos along the Vermont Avenue. Beside the food, on weekend I will head down to south for beaches. On Sunday I will go to one of the Hollywood theaters for sneak preview and hang out with friends along in Sunset Blvd. When I missed Asian food, I will go down to K-town for delicious Bimbim Bab (korean mixed rice) and Little Tokyo for sushi! also i will go south to Garden Groove for some PHO and Vietnamese spring roll ! Sometimes I will go all the way up on the 605 to Rowland Heights for original bubble milk tea. I used to go Cerritos a lot for Indian food, Artesia has the best Indian food in town. On summer I will go north to Malibu for the best fish and chips along PCH, after the most romantic sunset, I will head up to the Valley to hang out with my film buddies. Thinking back, i get to know so many different groups of people, they are all my life time buddy, from the first day I met my Mexican friends, to my Caucasion friends, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Middle East, African American, Turkish, Armenia, Thai, Cambodia, Vietnamese, Filiphines, Guam, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Canadian and etc etc. I learned a lot, grow up with them, share the similiar jokes, (same content but different way of expressing, different language, different body language). Everyone is very open in religion, living style, language, culture. Until when I will return to the La La Land? I am dreaming everyday that one day my dream will come true, I want the best for my children and family, let me build up my career now and for the next generation, I want my children to live with other children around the world, be part of the La La land ! I miss you, So Cal !

[dyno1]

I live down in SD. I visit LA. often with my wife and daughter. We like it. I could live up there. Traffic sucks but traffic in any major city is bad. Chicago will scare the crap out of you. Anything you want can be found in LA. LA is sprawling but each area has individual charms. I'm happy to see the downtown LA. continues to improve.

[Scott]

I moved to LA in September 2005 after 40+ cold (winters and hot, humid summers), miserable years in Minneapolis, and have never looked back. Housing costs are higher here, but the salaries are too, and the bump in salary I took for the same type position far exceeds the extra I spend on rent, so I live like a prince, can save money and have great weather too. My utilities are less, my car insurance went down, food is about the same, so for me at least the high cost of living thing just doesn't hold water.

This is a wonderful place to live and I've enjoyed myself immensely. Moving here is probably one of the best decisions I made in my adult life. I live and work near the beach, there's plenty of shopping and all manner of things to do if you want them, and I have had nothing but positive experiences people-wise. It is probably the closest I could come to paradise on earth. I liked the people and city of my former residence, but nothing could compensate for me for putting up with that climate again.

I personally don't get the whole homeownership thing, it's not for me, but I do hope the prices come down for families and others that wish to partake. There's just no reason why the median home price here should be more than $250-$300,000.

I have to wonder how many of the people leaving will be back when they see the grass isn't so green on the other side. If you don't have a lump sum from a home sale here, please note that while you will find less expensive homes elsewhere, your salary will be less and you still won't be able to afford a home.

Oh, and the traffic is crazy in Minneapolis and in pretty much every major metropolitan area I know of. At least here we don't have to deal with ice, snow, and road salt ruining our cars.

You will carry me out of LA feet first.

[toby]

Los Angeles is a terrible place. Bad for adults, bad for children. The culture is corrupt, everything costs too much, the beaches are polluted, the air is unbreathable, and no one knows how to drive in the damn rain.

Everyone who moved was right to do so. Please, please don't come back. Thank you.

Posted by: Dan Moran

Wrong Topic, that one is like 4 down.

But I have to say, outside of the "driving in the rain", you're simply wrong.

Yes, there's growth issues, much like ALL cities in the entire WORLD! Hey, you know what? The Greatest Generation made a lot of mistakes.

Not only did they build houses above the water lines of oceans, rivers, lakes and reservoirs, which causes house pollution to drain into those water sources, they ran sewerage lines to the oceans, rivers, lakes...

Rural's water supply being poisoned by weed killer arsenic.

They built power plants next to schools, and they did it for the children (back then power was important and infrastructure was limited, and they didn't know the effects of pollution).

But here's the deal, they didn't just do this in LA, they did it THROUGHOUT the ENTIRE country. There's a price to be paid for progress and the entire country paid it.

So you're not really talking about LA per se, you're just talking about the legacy of the Greatest Generation. They did a lot of great things, but they were told that world is what you leave it.

Everything you said is every cities problem in the ENTIRE country. Maybe not the Beaches and driving thing...but the rest is true.

[Uncle Billy]

About 37 commenting on why they like L.A. 250+ on why they want to leave/left.

Maybe it's just that most of the bloggers lack enough physical activity to keep themselves optimistic and happy with their own backyards? Or just that the happy ones tend not to write about until prodded, while complainers will complain at the drop of a post?

Either way, lots of bad, and lots of good here. Why do we have to try so damn hard to find the good, though? For those of us hanging in there, let's fix it, what? (still amazed at how few gang members we see padding around town lately.) Any gang members on the blog? Care to comment on where you are?

Ay dios mio

[Joseph]

Kathryn said: "But I think it's really different in the suburbs of LA with long commutes and vast stretches of nothing but tract housing and strip malls."

Ah, but it's tract housing that is still within the footprint of the greater Los Angeles area...

My wife and I are currently expats in Boulder, Co. We are "home for the holidays" and are glad to be able to see our families and friends that are all here. We will be dining at our various favorite places in Monterey Park, Santa Monica, Beverly Hills, Rowland Heights, Cerritos, Glendale and Pasadena. We will take in movies at movie theaters that cater to the demands of the Hollywood crowd. We will go back to the hiking paths that we enjoyed when we were dating (only minutes from where we lived), and will spend some time visiting the ocean...

[Dan Landis]

I grew up in LA (SF Valley) but left 20 years ago for Bay Area. Went back over the summer - it was amazing to see how some areas have actually improved (West LA) and others such as the Valley have gone south. I was amazed at how much graffiti, tacky apartment buildings, and uninspired architecture there was.

I haven't read any comments on illegal immigration in LA and how it is changed the place. I was in El Paso, Texas earlier in the week and noted how Hispanics and Anglos seemed to blend together and get along. No graffiti and no hint of desparation even in the modest neighborhoods. But in LA you sense the fury of many anglos over immigration plus gang problems, graffiti, etc.! Comments

[Hula Girl]

"Schwarzenegger will declare a fiscal emergency. Schools could lose $1.4 billion and thousands of inmate could be freed early." (LA Times).

Uh-Oh - this will just add to the State (and L.A) exodus. If you thought schools were bad before, just wait. Perhaps the State can hire the "thousands of inmates freed early" to teach at the gutted schools. There won't be many teachers left in LA after a 1.4 BILLION dollar cut.

"Hasta La Vista, Baby" indeed. Thank You Arnold, you are now a REAL Republican.

[kd]

Talk about a topical post - this seems to be all my husband and I talk about at the moment. I know he has a lot to say on this, so I'll let him share his own story, but here's mine...

I'm originally from New Zealand, moved to LA almost 10 years ago now, at the age of 21. I instantly fell in love with this dynamic city. Don't get me wrong, NZ is stunning, people are friendly etc.etc. its heaven on earth, but super boring when you're young and vibrant and ready for adventure. LA held all of this wonder and promise for me and kept me ever-intrigued for the last decade....and continues to do so. As a foreigner, LA welcomed me with open arms, and it has felt like home ever since. In my early 20's I lived the life that you see on tv .... I did the beach-scene, the club-scene, the fabulous party-scene.....then I met my husband, soon after that I felt the cluckiness (desire for baby) starting to rise in me, and before we knew it were living a life much different than either of us had previously known.

We were suddenly confronted with a set of challenges ... we both wanted to give our child a little bit of the life we had as kids. We wanted a detached house - a condo wasn't going to cut it. We wanted a yard for them to play in. We wanted them to go to, not just a good school, but a great one, but it would need to be public. I wanted to spend a lot of time with my child, to not be a full-time working parent. These seemed like reasonable ideals, not so outrageous surely?! Alas, we were not fortunate enough to buy before the housing price spike, so we scrimped and saved for years to buy our first place - a 3 bed condo (sigh) on the outskirts of Glendale for $420k. We watched and analyzed the market every day and found this score (?) by sheer luck as it wasn't even listed on the MLS. Now our toddler is going stir-crazy and so are we. We dream of the yard and the possibility of a simpler life...one without the constant stress of meeting our mortgage payment, and not having any left-over discretionary income to take a vacation. But we're living the dream our friends tell us. The dear friends that live in Culver City, who we see maybe once every 2 months. Sure, to some degree.

WE LOVE LA - we both really started our lives here, it holds so much nostalgia. I have met the most beautiful, deep, life-long friends in this crazy mega-opolis. I have a booming private massage practice, with an incredible, diverse clientelle which I know I will not find elsewhere. The prospect of leaving almost brings me to tears - yet our needs have shifted, our priorities are different. We have to start making decisions for our daughter now. We know we're going to leave, its just timing now (and even writing this gives me a deep sadness in my heart) We just can't afford it. It totally sucks. If we could...we would stay for sure.

Despite the fact that we're leaving, for those of you lucky bastards who earn enough to truly live the dream....we really believe that we've found the best place in LA for families - if you've got at least 600k to spend on a house. Glendale/Pasadena/Crescenta Valley is where its at. Good public school system, easy to get around - the 134 and 210 freeways are a breeze compared to the 10 and the 405. But shhhh - don't tell too many people :) Its beautiful at the base of the mountains, and we see the stars at night, ahhh! There's a closer sense of community here than other parts I've experienced (I've lived in Westwood, Santa Monica, Long Beach, San Diego) ... maybe cos people try to stay pretty close to home and avoid the madness-inducing traffic. We wave and chat with the neighbors, we stroll around our neighborhood with our daughter admiring the quiet, tree-lined streets, we go to the Christmas parade in the small downtown main street. It feels like home. It IS home.

We will miss you LA. From the bottom of our hearts.

[frank]

Lived in Thousand Oaks/Moorpark for 20+ years and now south OC (Dove Canyon) for 7...

Rancho Santa Margarita/Dove Canyon has the feel of a much smaller place, where you run into people from Little League, etc all over town-yet is only 15 minutes from Irvine, which is the real center of the employment universe in SoCal if you are not in the entertainment industry...

For a place that has a stereotype of being rather monochromatic, OC is actually rather diverse...within 20 minutes of our house I can find great authentic asian cooking of all types, argentine, brazilian, peruvian, and real (not chain) Mexican cooking-even a real soul food place (in Foothill Ranch!!!)

Schools here are good, and as for traffic-one thing that makes OC different is that in 1990 or so they passed a gas tax, and the result is that every freeway in the county has either been fixed or is in the process of being done, with the result being that while certainly not fun, it's not as bad as LA...

The one thing I don't see in south OC is the kind of one-of-a-kind retail you see in LA or even Thousand Oaks, since it is all master-planned and as a result retail rents are steep and space is limited. In contrast, the once run-down shops on Thousand Oaks Blvd are full of wonderful specialty shops of all types and the area as a whole, due to good schools and the boom created by the growth of Amgen, has become much more sophisticated than it was in the 70's and 80's...

To sum up-if you live in the right part of town and own your home, LA/OC is still a great place-but a tough place for the young and the less-affluent..

[EW]

I do not own a home, and I still love LA.
-the culture--film, theater, museums, food
-the nature--beaches, mountains
-the people--diverse, hardworking
-the opportunities--great universities (USC, UCLA, LMU, CalTech), business.
-proximity--to all other places in CA, to the Pacific NW, to Hawaii, to an international airport

Yes, many aspects are hard to deal with...but I would much rather deal with traffic, and housing than close-mindedness, and lack of culture

[annw]

Moved here a year ago, and am surprised how much I love it. I've lived in Atlanta, Manhattan, Marin and Sonoma counties (not to mention Cleveland, Cincinnati and Lima, Peru)...so I have some basis on which to judge. For me, LA combines great weather, urban environment with plenty of interesting things to do, and plenty of light and air and outdoor activities. Living in reach of the marine layer seems to be key for me. Also, I don't commute too far. LA is the best place I've lived so far!

[Constantine Singer]

We moved to Los Angeles almost 10 years ago from Seattle. We had been raised to despise southern California and Los Angeles in particular. I remember coming to LA in the mid-1980's to visit relatives and complaining for weeks before and after about having to go and having gone. LA is easy for the young and unimaginative to despise.

We moved down here in the late 1990's in order for my wife to pursue a career in the entertainment industry. I am a teacher so my profession is portable. We moved down here without jobs or a place to live, both of us believing that it would work out. It did and in large part, the reason it worked out was because of Los Angeles itself. It is the reason that I love Los Angeles and will never leave if I can help it.

Los Angeles is one of the few places I have ever been where the entrepreneurial experience is a conversational norm. In Los Angeles, every body is involved in creating something new or doing something on their own. This energy pervades the region, cutting across class, race, ethnic and geographical lines. The tamale vendors and junkmen, the writers and waiters with scripts in their pocket -- everybody believes in themselves and, even moreso, in the American Dream. This abiding belief in opportunity is also partly responsible for the LA hatred in those who pack up and leave -- no-one is more bitter than one whose beliefs have been broken.

In the last 10 years, my wife has set up a successful business that she has built from scratch and I have helped to start a successful charter school. Neither the opportunity, nor the support for either of our endeavors would have been present in Seattle.

As far as the "three headed beast."

1. I take the bus. I live in NorthEast LA and I work in Pomona. LA has fantastic public transportation for those who are willing to stand at a bus stop. It is cheaper, faster, and more efficient than the system in Seattle.

2. While housing prices are higher than in Seattle, so are wages. We earn a combined $60,000/year more than we would be earning doing the same things in Seattle. The difference in housing costs is much smaller than that. When coupled with the amazing affordability of food and consumer goods, the incredibly low property taxes, the cost of living is actually lower in Los Angeles than in Seattle. Yes we have income tax here, but the difference between the sales and property taxes in Seattle and LA, I am pretty sure, compensates for it.

3. I spend a lot of time in schools. There are terrible schools in Los Angeles, true, but good programs exist in almost every school. We are going to be sending our daughter to the local elementary school. We have already gotten involved (though our daughter is only 2).

Los Angeles, as a city, is both catholic and democratic (small c and small d). It encompasses everything and provides opportunity for all. This is why I love it. I love hearing Spanish, Korean, Chinese, Armenian, English, and Russian at our local grocery store. I love being able to walk to restaurants that serve pupusas, peroshkies, burgers, crepes, hum bao, barbeque, and pizza. I live in an international city and an international city is no place for the fearful and small. It has been said by others in these comments already, but let me repeat it here: LA has a self-selecting population; we must let those who are dissatisfied leave before they destroy what is good about our city.

Now I'm just nattering on.

[Steve]

Look at the pattern, those who love it came from some other hell hole. For those who are CA natives and above age 40 you have witnessed the decline. I am writing this from my 4000sq ft home on a golf course in CO that I just payed $400K for, almost free compared to the hell hole. My wife and I are both CA natives from South Bay when it was Meca and no more. For you chumps that want to stay great, but a fundamental financial principal is if you are not paying down a house you are going no where. SoCal will always grow and this is unfortunate because the reality is the infrastructure is already maxed and the state is broke. If you want the quality of life and RE prices of the 70s in SoCal leave now, if you want the next third world megatroplis stay and deal with it. SoCal will never get back to the quality of life in the 70s, it is over with.

[dilbert dogbert]

I moved to LA, Torrance, just as the first moon landing was taking place. I was filling the gas tank in Santa Barbara and watching the first steps on the moon thru the window of an RV tanking up next to me. Had a great and challenging job at TRW for two years until Nixon decided to cut the defence budget and things got very interesting at work. TRW went from 16,000 to 8000 in the two years I was there. Job stress and lack of services for a handicapped child drove us back to the bay area. A different job in a different era and I most likely would still be down there. The smog of that era would be impossible to explain to anyone who had not experienced it. From what I understand smog is much reduced. I hope it is much reduced for the sake of current residents. I took the family to the LA county fair and WOW! you could feel each breath as you inhailed. We lived 1/2 mile inland behind King Harbor so did not experience daytime smog and were in bed when the winds brought it back in the night. The Malibu fires and the earthquake made life interesting also. Shake and Bake!
I hear all the great things the above posters comment on and those kinds of comments are ones I would use to describe the bay area where I live. It is great that California has so many wonderful places to live and that 38 millions of us can all fit in. Well, almost all fit.
I appreciate the news about real estate in SoCal as the area is the leading edge of what will happen up here. Just to get back to the topic of this blog: RE is slow but business is good. The job market is still strong. Housing prices are stll holding. There is no evidence of any selling panic.
Good Luck to us all.

[Steve]

I'm originally from New Zealand, moved to LA almost 10 years ago now, at the age of 21. I instantly fell in love with this dynamic city

I just came back from your beautiful country the "Last Paradise On Earth" New Zealand and it is paradise. All I ask is how the hell could you stand living in LA after living in NZ. If I was you I would get back ASAP before all the Americans who want out buy up the country.

[Teresa]

I'm sure some of the L.A. expats who post here "hate" Los Angeles, but the vast majority of them do not. I do not "hate" L.A., though I do hate the housing bubble that has enveloped California.

There are many things I miss about L.A., but there were also many things I missed about Philadelphia when I lived in L.A. I may be the oddball here, but I don't think there is such a thing as a "perfect" place to live. Certainly Philadelphia is not perfect, and me realizing that could be why I don't regret moving back here. I did not expect perfection; I only expected to be able to use the fact that it costs a lot less to live here to build a better lifestyle. That expectation was reasonable and attainable.

I attend one of the most ethically diverse universities in the country, so that's not something I miss; it's something I still have. The biggest difference is that there are more black people out here than in L.A., and fewer Asians. There are lots of Middle Easterners and Hispanics. The Hispanic immigration debate that has raged in L.A. for the past couple of decades is just starting to hit here, because the Hispanic population is exploding here.

I miss my friends, the [winter] weather and the desert. It is strange; when I lived in L.A., I missed the green of the Delaware Valley; now, I miss the earth tones of the desert. I also miss the mountains. While most of Pennsylvania is mountainous, the extreme southeastern corner of the state is flat. When my husband and I were in Pittsburgh a few months ago, I told him I felt like I was back in L.A. because of all the mountains; he said he'd never heard anyone compare Pittsburgh to L.A. LOL

Since I do not feel that any city is "perfect," the key is to find a place that best suits your individual lifestyle. Someone on the other thread said they lived in North Florida and loved it; when we originally left L.A., we went to Jacksonville...and we couldn't stand it. We lasted 17 months, and it felt like 20 years. The happiest day of my life was the day we got out of that hellhole, and we both wish we'd just moved to Philly direct from L.A. instead of taking that pit stop in Florida. But all that said, I can comprehend how someone else might really enjoy living there.

If I were to move back to California, I'd like to move to San Diego. I like SD better than L.A., which is, again, a personal preference.

[Teresa]

I also strongly disagree with those who claim that people who leave L.A. are somehow "less" than others, and "not able to hack it" in a competitive environment.

I don't think there IS such a thing as a "non-competitive" environment. The shark businesspeople I've met in Philly are just as cutthroat and vicious as the ones I met in L.A. I even met people like that in JACKSONVILLE.

Anyone who thinks they're going to move away from that had better move to their own deserted little patch of land.

[Jerry]

I wouldn’t say L.A is greatest place on earth, but for me personally I wouldn’t live anywhere else. I love the cultural diversity and the creative energy I find here. After the ’92 riots I moved out, but found myself constantly daydreaming of my hometown. After 9 months of separation I moved back. to L.A. For good or bad L.A. is where the future of the country is headed. I want to part of history and contribute to the positive energy emanating out of here.

[amir]

Interesting thread.

I would generalize this:

1. When kids come into the picture, LA becomes much more difficult. Suddenly, a lot of things you didn't care about really disturb you. Housing, education and traffic don't matter when you live in a small rental in the city. It seems that a lot of people that really like LA don't have kids.

2. For people in the entertainment industry LA is almost a must. When someone forces you to live somewhere for your livelihood you should expect some rancor. Many people in the entertainment business feel LA is like a golden prison, and can't wait to escape. Others see it as the place where they made it and love it.

3. It all comes down to what you compare the city to and your first impressions. If you came from a boring small town, or a third world country, LA is pretty amazing. If you moved from New York or some other amazing city, the comparison is different.

4. Finally, it's all personal. If you don't appreciate outdoor activities like surfing, hiking, golfing, then the weather is not that important. If you are ready to live in an expensive city but want high intellectual cultural experiences, I'd say LA gets a B minus, there are other cities in the US with more street life and better culture, but you won't be living in a suburb like setting with a yard and maybe a pool.

What is sad to me is that a good balance of living in a home with kids and still relatively close to great city life is becoming more expensive, which explains the numbers of people leaving Los Angeles. If everybody who didn't like the city was making an extra $50,000 a year, they would all really like it.

[Nathan B.]

I moved to Southern California in 1976 to attend college from a surburban community outside of NYC. Have never looked back. Nothing beats the weather, job opportunties, myriad of indoor and outdoor activities and diverse topography and population. Sure there are problems - but they are in existence everywhere else, too. Having lived in three metropolitan areas across the country, I can attest to this. L.A. is anything but boring and is still a land of plenty. I thank God every day for my good life here.

[Teddy]

This is why I love LA! I grew up in the mean streets of echo park in the late 80's through the 90s (gang infested era). I I decided to get bus out into the valley in junior high and high school. My family decided to move to Monterey Park my senior year, and this is where I currently call home. I attended UC Riverside, and I had the opportunity to meet many wonderful people throughout southern California: Orange county, San Diego, west side, east side, etc... There are just so many different types of people that make up what Los Angeles is all about. I have the party friends that l hang out with in Hollywood and sunset once a month. My nature friends who love to head to the piers and lakes to go fishing, or hiking at griffith park and Topanga State Park. I can't forget the traditional family event BBQs and volleyball events at huntington beach. Finally, I get to hibernate at bear mountain resort and mammoth during the winter time(more rain this year pls). My mother fled from a war torn communist country in 70's, so her two children can live the American Dream. Los Angeles for my family is the American Dream. Los Angele has provided my family, any many others who come here for hope and opportunity. There is just more to life than bad traffic, smog, and school systems.

[enlightenment]

Why I like living in LA area:
- Traffic is excellent. I don't have to worry about high-speed collisions because I am stopped or driving 10mph on the freeway. If I was driving fast, then I wouldn't be able to look at the scenery and what people are doing in cars next to me. I love waking up at 5AM so I can get to work by 8AM. I love wasting $3 gas while parked on the freeway.
- Housing is excellent. I love having a smaller house that I could get in other parts of the country. A big house takes lots of spare time to maintain.
- Housing Prices are excellent. I love to not have any spare change after paying my house loan, and insurance, and other housing bills. I am so happy that my house has gone up in value and it makes me feel very rich and snobbish, but I can't figure out how I'm going to get the money out of my house and still live in LA at the same time, no worry, I'm think I'm rich thus I must be rich. I sure am happy that all of my neighbors have taken out loans against their appreciated houses so they can buy brand new expensive cars because it makes them feel rich and thus the entire neighborhood feels like rich people. I sure am happy that I'm paying more for my house in a scum gang infested neighborhood than people in other parts of the country pay for being in a posh upper end area.
- Other languages are great. It is really great that no one want to learn english and it doesn't bother them to speak in other languages in front of others who don't. It is great that people love another countries flag and put it on their car instead of the USA flag. It sure is great there are so many illegal aliens around here, I almost feel like I'm in Mexico.
- It sure is great that I am so close to the ocean, mountains, tourist traps; but I never ever visit them, but it sure is great to tell all my friends in other parts of the USA that I am so close to these places, yet I never tell them I don't visit them.
- It sure is great to be around lots of smug, stuck-on-themselves, fake people. Why would I ever want to live in another part of the USA where people are just themselves and not trying to be so fake all the time? I love going to bars where everyone is acting like they are so important, almost like a halloween party at the bars.
- I love paying higher prices for gas and milk and other products. It sure makes me feel rich having to pay higher prices than other parts of the USA. I love to pay higher sales taxes than other states because I have lots of extra money and think I so rich that it doesn't bother me.
- I feel very rich because my salary is much higher than if I live where housing is much cheaper.

[Lionel]

Having just moved to Seattle from LA, I'm a little stunned that someone would claim that cost of living in LA is less. We've found Seattle to be extraordinarily affordable. At present I'm renting a beautiful 3-bedroom craftsman in a fantastic neighborhood for under 1700, and literally ten minutes ago a friend called to offer us another 3-bedroom craftsman in a nicer neighborhood (comparable to Santa Monica) for 1350. The overwhelming feeling since moving here has been one of relief. I no longer aspire to something I cannot have; I very much enjoy my life here. This is not an LA-bashing post. I have many friends and family still there, and I flew down for Thanksgiving and had a lovely time. I just can't afford to live there anymore.

[larry]

I think it's interesting the strong correlation between posts that are negative on LA and racist/xenophobic comments. For me, I love that LA has so many immigrants. The vitality and diversity that immigrants bring give me hope for the future of LA and for the country as a whole.

The venom spewed in this blog towards immigrants, Mexican immigrants in particular, to me echoes the same stupid racist hatred once shown to earlier waves of immigrants--the Irish, Italians, Jews, etc. I'm not a sociologist or anthropologist to say what inspires these peoples' hatred, but I suspect it has to do with the gap between their inflated sense of entitlement and the very limited success they've probably achieved in the world. That can't be theirfault, right? It can't be that they need to/needed to study harder, work harder, be more imaginative or take more risks. No. The problem is Mexicans. Riiiiiiiight.

Peter Viles:

Seriously, I've seen a lot of unbelievably racist and hate-filled comments on this blog, and I've never seen you acknowledge or address them in any way. These are your readers. If they're echoing your sentiments, own it. If you, like me (and hopefully a large, less vocal segment of your readers) are appalled, then stand up and say something about it.

[danielb]

The most amazing thing about LA is the bad Tex Mex restaurant food. We spend half the year in Alaska where the Tex Mex food is far superior (La Mex, Taco King etc) We have tried everyones'suggestions in LA but can't find anything worth a dime.

[David Raether]

For everyone who hates LA or is ambivalent about LA or thinks it's something that it's not (LA LA Land), I suggest you go to a LA Galaxy - Chivas USA game sometime this summer.

A warm, windy night. The bewildering and bewitching multi-cultural crowds, the singing, the noise, the feeling of being in a real place with flaws and hope...

Granted, the Home Depot Center is Carson, but it's LA. You will be overcome and smitten and hooked for life.

I was at one of these games last summer with my son who is going off to college next fall. He is desperate to leave Southern California (he grew up here) to experience the East Coast.

"Let me tell you something," I said. "A year or so from now, you're going to be out East and suddenly the sounds and smells of this night will come back to you and you're going to miss LA and miss it bad."

He didn't say anything for awhile. We watched the game. Roiling, passionate crowds, singing, cheering, etc.

About ten minutes later, he turned to me and said: "You know, I'm still gonna leave, but I love LA. I really do."

It's a ridiculous place. It really is. 17 million people in a desert. Absolutely absurd. Nothing works quite right. Everything is slightly disappointing. And completely beautiful.

[No comment.]

I think if you are single and no kids. LA. is paradise. If you have a wife and kid. It can be a struggle. Most single people are clueless what daycare costs in SoCal. Also most have never had to buy formula or Huggies in addition to paying a CA. size mortgage. If going out and finding Mr. or Mrs. right for the night is your deal. I think LA. is your holy land. I do like LA. but i'm married with family now. I can take it or leave it. Once you have kids you only go to work and home anyway. With an occassional trip to the beach or Target on the weekend.

[Tom Coughlin]

I lived in New York when I was younger and the Bay Area for many years. I have also been stationed in five Asian countries. I have always enjoyed visiting LA, but never thought I would live here. I arrived in Juy and now live in Glendale. I can walk to my office and to just about everything I need in daily life: supermarkets of all kinds, coffee shops, book stores and a large regional mall. Hollywood and Silverlake are 15 minutes away. People are generally friendly and the weather is good. What is there not to like? Traffic is a problem everywhere and any major metro area worth living in is expensive. Living here has been a pleasant surprise. I may never leave. I am only sorry I did not arrive sooner.

[Tom]

This is the most dynamic place in America. There are endless possibilities here and while I wish there was more of a civic culture, we are free of the trappings of social conformity present in many other cities. We have an energy of independence, creativity, self exploration. There has never existed a more heterogeneous place on the planet and for that, I never want to leave this great city. Now if I could only take a train to the westside, this place would be perfect!

[Jason Hoppe]

Why I love LA.

My beautiful lady Amy.
I was born here.
Earthquakes.

Why I hate LA.

Everything not mentioned above.

[David in Los Angeles]

My wife and I and our two kids moved back to California from four years in Phoenix. Phoenix is great, and we actually got use to the insanely hot summers. But I love the fact that what happens in Los Angeles - for better or worse - effects the rest of the world. How many other places can say that? The influence of this city is incredible. Plus, the weather, topography, beach, and international diversity. We are fortunate to have inherited a small 1000 sq ft condo, which is less than half the size of our home in Phoenix. But - unlike a lot of families - we'd rather be in 1000 sq ft condo on the westside than a 2200 square foot house in Phoenix. We also home school our kids, which we recognize is not a possibility (or choice) for everyone, but for our family it really works.

[KosherKrab]

I'm tied to Los Angeles and can never leave b/c I can't live more than 30 min away from Johnnie's Hot Pastrami. I moved from Playa del Rey to Glassell Park, so now my commute to downtown is nothing, but I do hit that awful 405 traffic on the way to Johnnie's. Where could I move if (gasp!) Johnnie's ever closed down?? NO, it's too awful, I can't contemplate it.

[KosherKrab]

I'm tied to Los Angeles and can never leave b/c I can't live more than 30 min away from Johnnie's Hot Pastrami. I moved from Playa del Rey to Glassell Park, so now my commute to downtown is nothing, but I do hit that awful 405 traffic on the way to Johnnie's. Where could I move if (gasp!) Johnnie's ever closed down?? NO, it's too awful, I can't contemplate it.

[Rob_in_LA]

I love LA. What I hate are all the "I can't afford a house" whiners. Fine, you can't afford a house in LA, so move somewhere else, get a better job or shut up already. There are people in every city in the U.S. that can't afford a house where they live.

[j.white]

I love LA because I make money in the real estate market, taking advantage of the ups and downs. I come for visits and hate it. You guys spend too much time in your cars that's why you drive all those nice cars. I love living in the mountains.

[Robert S. Hoover]

Being a native-born Californian tends to skew my point of view, especially so for one born in the 1930's. Back then Los Angeles had one of the finest light-rail systems in the world. That was destroyed by corrupt politicians and greedy corporations -- a matter of public record for any who care to look it up. Without adequate transportation the LA basin isn't a very good place to live.

Surprisingly, there are other places with very similar climates. Perth comes to mind (ie, the one in Australia, not the other one :-) as does the Atlantic coast of Spanish Morocco. I'm told there are places in Chile and on the east coast of South Africa that are near analogs to the southern California climate but unlike the others I've mentioned, I'm not visited them myself.

As for the quality of life in the LA basin, your perceptions depend on what you've experienced in other areas. It's better than London or Tokyo, in my opinion, but generally worse than most other places.

With regard to the real estate issue, it tends to be more of a joke -- or a pyramid scam -- rather than something to be taken seriously. Charging $35k in fees to erect a $40k house -- which then goes on the market for $400k to be purchased with money rented for more than 10% p/a -- is neither ethical nor honorable. At least growing prunes or taking in each other's laundry were honest activities :-)

[Lauri Ward]

Although I live and have offices in Manhattan, NY and Boca Raton, FL, my work as an interior refiner has brought me to L.A. many times over the past few years. With each visit, mostly helping clients decorate and downsize their homes, I dream of living in L.A. as it seems like a combination of the best of both of my present domiciles (and, yes, a bit of the worst). Coming from New York, the expense and traffic, while not appealing, don't scare me. Now, if I can just get my husband on board...
Lauri Ward, author, Downsizing Your Home With Style.

[Pinky]

People claim that living in Los Angeles is hard with a wife and kids.
It's not.
I'm living proof.
I'm the wife, and I handle the kids perfectly fine.
There's so much for the kids to do, it's always a good day so they play outside, walk the dog, take a little ride to the beach, go to the movies, go to gymnastic sessions and dance classes for my daughter, boxing and karate for my sons, go to the skating rink, go to school-related clubs, or just hang out at a friends house. It's really good. While my husband and I both work, our salary's good.

[Jeremy R]

/i love living in LA, but right now, almost NO WHERE in CA, AZ,OR, are worth the price. CA especially.

LA is not an easy city to live in for most people, even if it is affordable.

For me, Im a renter by the beach, so LA is fantastic, but for most people, it is not really worth the price.

[robert No longer in L.A.]

The French call it "Je ne sais quoi" for that indescribable mix of what pleases us. Calif is like that....you CAN ID the parts, but the sum is much greater than the whole, even with traffic, gangs, lousy politicians. Home prices are like a sine wave....up and down, so IF you missed the UP part, wait for 2-4 years...it'll get better.

After 15 years in So Cal (mostly PDR/MDR) we are delighted to be where we now are, but still relish all the good things EACH OF YOU have highlighted about LA.

Regardless of how long, or short, your stay in LA...my advise is to "SAVOUR IT!!!" It may not be forever...and having visited many of the world's hot spots, there is much to be said for the indescribable richness and variety LA has to offer, regardless of your economic and/or social standing. Don't let the (palm) tree block the magnificent 'view' of your urban forest.

[JK]

Larry,

Why is it when anyone talks about the problems associated with the Mexican illegals they are branded racist? That argument is so old and tired and no one is buying it anymore. You cannot deny the fact that the illegals have had a negative, in some cases disatrous affect on the city. Take a look at the closed hospital emergency rooms, crowded schools, depressed wages, rundown neighborhoods, ID theft victims and overwhelmed social services. Denying the big white elephant in the room won't make it go away.

The middle class has pretty much been wiped out in LA and they have a right to complain.

[Leavin' LA]

Pinky: (sracasm on) Thank god you're here to prove everyone else wrong! (sarcasm off).

Glad you have it perfected. Not everyone does. And that's why a lot of us live elsewhere now.

[robert No longer in L.A.]

Re: Robert S Hoover@3:06 a.m.: Certainly Capetown So Africa, parts of Chile, (sooo much LIKE CA, but turned upside down) Morocco's Atlantic coast have certainly similarities w/ LA's climate (Yes, been to each, and more) but other issues make them impractical:1) far, far, f-a-r away from 'home' and familiar/convenient turf/family & friends 2) US $ is now comparable to toilet tissue - most other areas would be OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive when it take 2US$ to buy a Pound Sterling/1.5 to get a Euro.....etc; gotta wait till US$ rises from the dead (3-5 years??) 3) It is damned difficult to match LA's culinary cornucopia ANYWHERE! 4) Having the ocean, mountains, desert, Yosemite, Tahoe, Napa/Sonoma, SF, Big Sur (BARF! on Vegas, but some actually like it????) and you realise, "WOW, how lucky am I to be in such an UNrivalled spot?" Sure I Love Provence, , Lake Como, Switzerland, Austria, Bali, Japan and lots of places that I love to visit...and then leave. Now, we visit LA and enjoy it...then go home to our new 'Love.' You'll find that the grass is RARELY ever 'greener' elsewhere....if you can't be happy in LA, then find you own Hot Spot...it's what helps make you, y-o-u.

[anna]

Since when is sushi and pastriami a "cultural advantage?

[Thomas]

There is no place like LA! There's an energy in this city that is unexplanable. It's as if anything is possible. I lived there for about two years and loved it. I am originally from Texas and moved back to the Lone Star State for work and my family but I will always consider Los Angeles my hometown. To live in LA is to be a survivor. It's a tough city that shows you what you are made of. Native Angelenos are some of the most honest and down to earth people. There is nothing like being able to spend the morning at Venice Beach then drive an hour up in the mountains and play in the snow. Los Angeles does have it's problems but honestly no where is perfect. Traffic is a pain and it's only city I've ever been in when the traffic is unbareable at times. That said I'm ready to move back.

[dynamic duo.]

It's nice here but the salaries are way behind the cost of living. If your making over $100k a year(most of you are not). LA. is probably comfortable. If not, you may be better off leaving. You can get $40k a year in any state. The $40-50k you get in Dallas will go farther than the $100k you get in LA. That is the real problem. CA. is over priced over all. Not just housing. My best friend split for Kentucky 5 yrs. ago. He quit a job making $70k here to take a job making $40k in Kentucky. He tells me he actually has more money now then he had when he lived here. Still, i like it here. I will probably keep my family here a while longer. Although some days Kentucky sounds nice.

[c-t-m]

Doesn't anyone see the trend in all the posts here. People either hate LA, left LA.... and those who "love" LA do with with so many caviats that they really seem to be taking more pride in surviving in LA than being an LA resident.

[Lauren]

I'm a 24 year old Southern California native who reluctantly left for the East Coast after graduating from UCLA. I now fear that I'll never be able to afford to move home. Housing in LA certainly is expensive -- as much as I'm paying on the other side of the country, if not more. But it's compiled with the cost of purchasing/maintaining a car, which I don't need back East. The concept of "Living in LA" is great for older generations, but my peers and I can't keep up.

[PDXSUX]

Whatever you do, don't come to Portland, Oregon to live. It is a horrible place, offering none of what makes LA such an appealing place to live.

Nobody who has carpetbagged up here from LA is happy, they all wish they were back in LA.

Beware!

[Frank Martinez, Big Frank]

Los Angeles is great with all it's diffrent Cultures which is like a mini Hawaii... Yes, I know Hawaii is known for it's beaches but also it's people from Japanese, Chinese, Portages and Korean all working together which we now have that here in Los Angeles..
Yes, this is paradise but the housing issue is also a problem.
Well, I am doing my best.

Big Frank
Downey California

[Rob]

I love L.A. as I'm a native Angeleno ... but I'm now moving to Hawaii. The tremendous influx of people - seemingly all from the east coast - has changed the landscape of the Westside. Drivers are rude and selfish, Lincoln Blvd has become unbearable and I can not travel east from Santa Monica after 3pm. The amount of trash left on the beach by visitors is nauseating and the illegal immigration problem is evident on every corner. Anyone need a parking space? Mine is available on January 2nd, 2008. Aloha'oe.

[Robin 'Roblimo' Miller]

I was born in L.A. (Good Samaritan Hospital) in 1952 and grew up there and in Orange. Now I live in a small town on (in a $150,000 house). I own a 15' sailboat I launch from convenient, uncrowded ramps. We have plenty of Mexicans, both legal and illegal, here so we have fine Mexican food -- and decent Chinese, Thai & BBQ, too, plus great fresh produce and meat because we're in a part of Florida that is still largely agricultural, not overcrowded like Miami -- or L.A.

Another local ex-Californian and I were reminiscing last week about how nice it was to grow up in the place where modern surfing, skateboarding, and catamaran sailing were all developed, right at the time they were getting cool. We talked about what it would take to bring us back, since both of our non-Californian wives ask us if we want to go "home" again at least once a year.

Our answer (paraphrased): "Sure, we'd go back -- if we could also time-machine ourselves back to 1975 or earlier."

On second thought, we decided 1968 or 1969 would be the latest we'd want to arrive.

Our part of Florida is 40 years behind So. Cal. in almost every way. Still have orange groves -- but they're getting replaced by tacky tract houses... still have lots of pretty public beaches -- but the richies are starting to condomize the coast & wreck it... still have places we can anchor/moor our boats for free -- but the local authorities are trying to make them all into $45/night "mooring fields" to keep out the riff-raff (AKE us).

Ah, well. Maybe our next move will be to Nicaragua. A friend moved there a few years back and loves it.

Illegal immigrant-haters ought to love it there, too: Nicaragua has *no* illegal Mexican immigrants at all. Other friends who have settled in Panama, Costa Rica, and even in Mexico all say the same: no illegal Mexican immigrants! (Seriously cheap living, too...)

[Tami]

I have lived in L.A. off and on my whole life. I bitch and moan when I'm there, then I bitch and moan because I'm NOT there! :) No matter where I go I always end up back in L.A

[Seattlepeanut]

Currently living in Seattle, my family jumped ship out of LA and moved north during the early eighties along with what seems to be half of the current population of Seattle. After living in Seattle for the last twenty five years, I REALLY miss LA. I come back to So Cal at least once a year, and truly miss the vibe of the city, the diversity and the wonderful weather.

I may be a rareity, but I am a Northwester that is ready to give up the green and go back to my roots and move back to LA.

[James Varela]

I moved to Los Angeles in March 2000 pursuing the California dream. Coming from Florida I wanted to earn more money and live in a city I had been dreaming about since age 16. I lived in the Palos Verdes area which was beautiful and worked in Torrance. I became disillusioned after 3 months. The opressive cost of living Vs Income is horrible. The gaps between rich and middle class & poor is almost third worldish. I recall a few years before when I saw Hollywood for the first time and I was left heartbroken. All the landmarks from old movies were gone. The Brown Derby and Tom Brenneman's restaurants. The Mocambo & Ciros nightclubs, the old NBC Radio Center all gone. The Ambassador Hotel boarded up and closed, now demolished. There were fun moments. I loved the Santa Monica pier area and loved shopping downtown on Saturdays. One year later my lease on my APT was to expire and the high cost of low living coupled with the fact the national recession hit Los Angeles before the rest of the country resulted in being laid off I made the decision to return to Florida where I had property. Funny is I still miss the town. It is a wonderful place if you have financial means but for the middle class life there is very hectic and costly. I have been trying to go back for a visit since leaving and have not had the time. I may make it back in 2008 for a 4 day stay. I would have loved to have seen L.A. back in it's glory days of the 1930's & 40's.

[May]

Let me start by saying that I LOVE LA and lived there for 40 years. Then I had to relocate (temporarily I planned) to Texas to care for my dad who passed away in Feb. 2007 at 98 years old. Since I left I find that I can no longer afford to live in LA and that is where my children, grandchildren and great-grandchildred reside. Cost of housing is obscene. Now, I am depressed because I am stuck in Texas away from my family. I have my father's paid for home here in Houston, but I am not happy. The value of this house wouldn't get me an outhouse in California. What a dilemma!

[Drew]

My husband & I just moved here 4 months ago from NYC (though I lived here for a bit in the late '80s) -- and we're finding LA to be far more affordable and livable in every way!

Maybe NYC is about the only place you can say this about, but --groceries are cheaper here, utilities are cheaper here, housing is cheaper here.

And of course the weather is better here too. And even the traffic is better here! We should have moved here years ago!

[Frank Riela]

My partner and I moved away from the LA area (Pasadena) 3 years ago to pursue our dream of living in Italy. Although I love much of our life in the historic district of Siracusa and although we could never have afforded a beautiful home like the one we have facing the Ionian sea across the street from us ... I miss LA desperately! I suspect we'll be back. Back to international foods and world class entertainment. Back to unparalleled opportunities in work, education, social life and lifestyle. Back to a climate that makes sunny Sicily pale by comparison and back home to family, friends and all the little day to day things that really make life a dream!

[Cal]

OT:

MLS# F1747435

Newest, largest percentage 1 year price drop I've seen yet in the SFV and surroundings. Sold for 520k in August 2006.. On the market for 287k.

Yes its a dung heap but the lender gave someone else 520k for it.. and before that in 2005 the lenders gave someone 458k for it.

[Joe]

I moved here 30 years ago from NY and never looked back. I made and lost one fortune, but only in LA can one be so optimistic about making another.

May,

So sorry about your Dad. Your situation is horrible! Keep your eye on LA real estate. Prices are coming way down. Even if you have to move to the Inland Empire where it will soon be dirt cheap, there is nothing like family, especially children and grandchildren. I can feel the love in your post. Trust me, it's not worth it! Dump the house and be with your family! That kind of love is what most people live and die for! If it were me, there woul