L.A. listing prices down another $5,100

Good morning. Median listing prices in greater Los Angeles continued their slide over the past week, dropping by $5,100, or 1.0% in a week, according to Housing Tracker's weekly analysis of MLS listings.

Highlights:
--Median listing prices slipped to $489,900, a decline of 10.9% from year-ago levels.  Median listing prices are now down 15.5% from their peak, which was $579,666, in April of 2006.
--Inventory of homes for sale declined from the previous week, to 42,751, but continues to run well ahead of year-ago levels -- by 26.8%  (Tracking inventory is tricky: It should be falling this time of year, and it is; it's just not falling as fast as it usually does).

Date          Median listing Price                   Inventory
4/06           $579,666                                 27,251
4/07           $545,000                                 35,489
5/07           $545,000                                 38,297
6/07           $540,000                                 40,766 (up 20.4% y/y)
7/07           $535,000                                 42,685 (up 14.5% y/y)
8/07           $529,000                                 44,483 (up 13.6% y/y)
9/07           $520,000                                 46,414 (up 16.9% y/y)
10/07         $510,000                                 46,603 (up 15.6% y/y)
11/07         $499,900                                 46,503 (Up 19.0% y/y)
12/10/07    $498,900                                 44,175 (Up 27.5% y/y)
12/17/07   $495,000 (down 10.0% y/y)        43,174 (Up 28.2% y/y)
12/24/07   $489,900 (down 10.9% y/y)    42,751 (Up 26.8% y/y)

Thoughts? Comments? E-mail story tips to peter.viles@latimes.com

Comments

[D]

This SFR and Condos combined, it's funny you never mention that.

[pugtv]

Dang Lefty,

It must suck to be the village idiot ... did you buy your home a few weeks ago when you predicted we were at the bottom?

[MyLessThanPrimeBeef]

Lefty will not be responding to any taunts as he is busy negotiating with Paulson and the state of California about re-working the terms of his subprime loan, which became delinquent immediately before the ink was dry at the escrow office.

[jb]

Wake me when the number is 305K.

Prices are still way out of line with fundamentals (like my rent is still about half of what it would be to own). 2008 will be brutal, banks should fail (but the government will happily spend your money to rescue them - all friggin crooks in bed together). The dollar will be further devalued as rates are cut because our so called leaders and Bernanke are all spineless wimps.

We need a regime change.

[too bad Lefty]

pugtv: Lefty IS the village idiot and he's probably out buying more properties since they're such great bargains right now. You know that everyone wants to live in CA and people are on airplanes and boats as I type, on their way to SoCal to buy up all these homes.
BWaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[JK]

For the life of me I can't understand how Corporate America and our crooked politicians even thought they could depress wages, remove benefits and pensions and still expect people will continue to be able to pay these artificially inflated home prices! $489,000 is still a lot of money when most Americans are making $50,000/yr ! It appears a standoff will be necessary... hold your ground buyers!

[joseph]

That's very normal...
I don't see the market crashing! we live in a very crowed place...If you can help, move...

The bottom is years away!--- 2-3 people on this blog are not going to change reality...

Happy new year!
The Real Estate Guy

[Ragnar]

Perhaps this most recent drop is indicative of a last-ditch effort from some sellers to sell prior to the end of 2007? Nah, not enough time for closing.

[Nick]

How much, if at all, did homes drop in price in the same time period the last few years? Many people who list their houses this time of year are desperate, good market or bad market. To just quote a statistic and say it's negative without knowing if it's normal is shoddy reporting. I'm not saying the market isn't bad, but give us more information.

[toby]

Wake me up when the price gets around 250,000. That's when it will be historically inline with income...well...249,470 to be exact.

[National Bubble]

The numbers are getting worse by the day. There are no signs of a bottom. Even the government (Paulson, Bernanke, Bush) is admiting that things are worse than they ever expected. If we were close to the bottom, why would they run to come up with plans to help homeowners facing foreclosure?
2008 will bring the highest number of mortgage resets yet and by the way, Bush’s plan won’t help most of them.
Unemployment is going up, the California economy is once again running a huge deficit. Arnold is talking about huge budget cuts, which means fewer jobs and less money in the economy. The local governments are facing less revenue from property taxes and therefore, they will cut spending which will exacerbate the problem.

Expect another 10% drop in home prices for 2008.
Happy New Year!!!

http://www.NationalBubble.com

[Judith]

Just made an offer on a place $25K under the asking. If they want to dicker up, I just might counter lower than my original offer!

[mike]

THIS IS NOT GOING TO LAST!!!!!WHEN ARE YOU PEOPLE GOING TO RENT A CLUE?????????WE ARE LIVING IN THE MOST VALUABLE REAL ESTATE AREA ON EARTH. THIS WILL NOT LAST.I REPEAT. THIS WILL NOT LAST. PRICES ARE HEADED BACK UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Michael Snyder]

mike,
It's good to know lefty has a left brain too. Do the same keys stick on both of your keyboards???

[pugtv]

MIKE,

WHAT DID YOU SAY? I'M SORRY, I CAN"T HEAR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mbob]

Uh, no Mike, that would have been downtown Tokyo, circa '80's when a square foot was valued at the equivalent of , oh, never mind.

But you are right. This is not going to last. Neither will an elevator with a severed cable and disconnected safety brakes remain forever plunging.

In time, it will hit. Whether or not any of the passengers survive, well, that's, as they say, another story.

Look at the bright side. Spring is just around the corner, time to order seeds and start thinkin' about planting a garden. Most investment pundits predict soaring food prices. So as the sixties types always advised, grow your own.

Bon apetit.

[original thinker]

Let's give "Lefty" a break. "MIKE" IS THE NEW VILLAGE IDIOT!!!

[peteviles]

MIKE! -- you don't have to shout. I found this for you:

Never write what you can say.
Never say what you can whisper.
Never whisper what you can nod.
Never nod what you can wink.
Never wink what you can smile.

(And, I'll add just for you, never use all caps unless your caplocks key is broken.)

[Hula Girl]

I love this blog - best entertainment since the Writers Strike. Mbob, mylessthanprimebeef,original thinker,pugtv,michael snyder..And, yes, you too, Peter. Y'all give me a reason to boot up my computer in the morning. Thanks for the laughs- and Happy New Year. Oh, and a honorable mention to Lefty, wherever he is, for providing fodder to riff on.

[Rob]

Now hold on, hold on. I think Mike is trying to say something here.

"RENT A CLUE" is a hint from Mike that if you keep Renting now..

"THIS WILL NOT LAST" means a bottom will eventually happen...

"PRICES ARE HEADED BACK UP!!" is that you timed it right, $$

or could be typing with a pencil in his mouth, cause his straight jacket is too tight , you pick....

[Dave]

Market Bulls and Bears: These are the facts:

1) Median listing price: $489,000
2) 20% down ($97,800)
3) Loan amount: $391,200 ($489,000 - $97,800)
4) $2,322.85/MO payment (5.91% interest rate (12/28) for 30 year fixed)
5) $509/MO for Property Tax (1.25% for $489K home)
6) $66.76/MO for Insurance ($800/year)
7) $2,898 Totally Monthly Payment for your 'Median Home Price"

A) Median LA Household Income: $50,000 (actually closer to $45,000)
B) Monthly Gross Income: $4,166 before Tax, SSI...etc.
C) $4,166 Gross Income - $2,898 Monthly House payment = $1,268.

Now the question is can $1,268 support a average family of 4 1/2 (2 Adult, 2 1/2 Kids)? Yes/No???

2 Good News for the 'average' Market Bull Buyer:

* You own your own home!
* You don't have to pay income tax. Your taxable income is less than $15,100 (http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0,,id=
150856,00.html)

Bad News:

You Live in Poverty! Poverty Threshold for a family of 4 is: $20,650 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_
States).

So everyone is right! Lefty, Mike and other Bulls just choose to live in Poverty. Market Bears choose to live with different set of Living Standards.

Enjoy.

[KC the Bitter Renter]

Keep it coming, love! Keep it coming, love!
Don't stop it now, don't stop it, no, don't stop it now, don't stop!
Keep it coming, love! Keep it coming, love!
Don't stop it now, don't stop it, no, don't stop it now, don't stop it!
Don't let your well run dry, don't stop it now.
Don't give me no reasons why, don't stop it now!
Keep it coming, love! Keep it coming, love!
Don't stop it now, don't stop it, no, don't stop it now, don't stop!
Keep it coming, love! Keep it coming, love!
Don't stop it now, don't stop it, no, don't stop it now, don't stop it!
Don't build me up just to let me drop, don't stop it now!
Don't turn me on just to turn me off, don't stop it now!
Keep it coming, love! Keep it coming, love!
Don't stop it now, don't stop it, no, don't stop it now, don't stop!
Keep it coming, love! Keep it coming, love!
Don't stop it now, don't stop it, no, don't stop it now, don't stop it!
Don't tell me there ain't no more, don't stop it now!
Don't turn me down and just close your door, don't stop it now!
Keep it coming, love! Keep it coming, love!
Don't stop it now, don't stop it, no, don't stop it now, don't stop!
Keep it coming, love! Keep it coming, love!
Don't stop it now, don't stop it, no, don't stop it now, don't stop it!

[GDC]

So the median listing price is down. So what? Doesn't this mean that there are now more lower end homes that are being listed which lowers the median? This is probably due to the subprime loans and foreclosures. But no one on this board cares about lower end homes because they won't buy one. Based on what I see on Realtor.com, the higher end homes are still being listed close to or over $1 million (I can afford to buy a home around $800k right now; finding a 3bd, 3bth, 2000 sq ft in the Westside for that price is impossible). I would like to see data on whether there are price drops for high end Westside homes. So far, I see no evidence of this.

[Uncle Billy]

I like the elevator analogy. Here's another way of looking at it, which can also bring some relief to those that jump out of windows when their shares in reits tank. Tattered bowler tip to the Otis elevator company.

It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop.

[shockg]

Mike, This blog is polluted with greedy speculators who are trying to talk down the market for their own personal gain. it's a waste of time trying to reason with them.

[anon]

A question about medians and median incomes:

The median income is the midpoint for all households. That would be 50% of househollds.

However, 35% (or thereabouts) rent and do not buy.

Therefore the median home price should be matched with the median home buyer's household income, not with the median LA household income.

Wouldn't the median homebuyer's household income be significantly above the median resident's household income?

Perhaps the median home-buyer's household income is more like $80-$90,000 and not $50,000.

The median house price would still be out of line, but not nearly so much out of line.

Peter, any help on this from your vast stores of media data?

[waitingitout]

Thanks to Dave for his run through the finances - but an important point: using the average family income isn't a good barometer for housing affordability, since less than 100% of homes are owned (think about it - regardless of city and housing boom or bust, the bottom 10% of household incomes will not be able to afford the bottom 10% of homes).

In LA, only 40% of households are owned - the rest of us rent. So if a family making the average household income is in the market for a house, it'll be at the very bottom of the market, not the middle. What you're really looking at is closer to the 60th percentile of household incomes chasing the 25th percentile of home prices (it's the best I can do with the data available). So to re-run Dave's process:

1) 25th percentile listing price: $375,000 (from Housing Tracker)
2) 20% down ($75,000) - don't ask me where this cash comes from
3) Loan amount: $300,000
4) $1,781.33/MO payment (5.91% interest rate (12/28) for 30 year fixed)
5) $390.63/MO for Property Tax (1.25% for $375K home)
6) $66.76/MO for Insurance ($800/year)
7) $2,239 Totally Monthly Payment

A) 60th Percentile LA Household Income: $60,000 (based on national 60th percentile; LA's is likely about 5% higher based on median ratios, but I'm using the national for simplicity)

B) Monthly Gross Income: $5,000 before Tax, SSI...etc.

C) Leaves $2,761 to cover taxes and living expenses.

That's a 45% ratio, which is doable, but like Chris Rock once said, "You can drive your car with your feet, but that doesn't make it a good idea."

Bottom line? By this metric alone, we're probably 20% overpriced. That would put us at 300k/392k/540k for the 25th/50th/75th percentile.

[JK]

GDC,

Just curious, what does one do that allows them to afford an $800,000 house? I can't even imagine that! Will you be selling a house?

[Michael T]

I must say, that for a blog that claims it's comments are moderated, whoever approved of KC the Bitter Renter's rant is really not doing his job, LOL. I laughed but I fail to see what it added to the conversation. And it was an uneasy laugh, the kind you have when something is really disturbing and yet you don't want to appear to be so uncool as to not understand it.

[Dave]

Anon & Waitingitout,

You are both correct. I was just trying to correlate the median listing price and affordability. It’s true that there will always be a percentage of renters. However, as mentioned by the market bulls, there’s ‘pent up’ demand and all renters are aspiring owners and will jump into the market when the market bottoms out.

My point is that for the median listing price to be affordable for the ‘average’ household, the average income would need to go up or the price would have to come down. Unless, like I mentioned, one is willing to live in poverty.

Shockg, I believe you are wrong. Most readers are home buyers and not looking to flip for speculative gain. If they’re speculators doesn’t it make more sense to wish for a market bottom so they can sell their investment at higher price and a gain?

Speculators are market bulls such are Mike, Lefty…etc. Those hoping their investment would stop falling in value so they can make a profit and/or make a commission on a sale.

[longdriver]

"Just curious, what does one do that allows them to afford an $800,000 house? I can't even imagine that! Will you be selling a house?"

Well, one of the data entry clerks where I work has a $800k house (she probably makes about $15/hr). Her husband is a mechanic. ( the clerk drives a BMW X3 thanks to a cash out Refi)

I have a buddy that bought a $700k house, he's a construction worker, his wife sells phones. (He has a new truck, she has a new Acura)

My brother bought a $600k house, he installs insulation in homes and smokes meth whenever possible, his GF is a waitress. (they both drive POS's)

I know several people who could actually afford a $800k home (doctors etc) but none of them have purchased homes recently. They are all quite happy in their homes they bought before the bubble years.

I fully expect all three of those homes to go into foreclosure. I know all three are in trouble and the homes are not worth what they owe on them. Anyone could buy an $800k home last year, and they did!

[just a girl]

promising. however, with this mess spreading to the economy in general, we're probably going to stay right where we are (renting) until we see how bad it's going to get. no point in buying a house if you're afraid you're going to get laid off. and yes, i've bought vegetable seeds. thank goodness the landlord doesn't care what we do with the yard.

[Cal]

From Economists reacting to the new home sales report:

"It appears quite clear at this juncture that the consumer has reached a psychological point where expectations of future price declines have become entrenched. We consider this to be eminently rational behavior on the part of potential homeowners and until the new homes market observes a decline in the median price of homes and falling rates, there will be little incentive to step up purchasing activity. – Joseph Brusuelas, IDEAglobal "

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2007/12/28/
economists-react-eminently-rational-housing-slump/

Economists basically assume groups of people act rationally, the points where they dont usually involve either panic or bubbles, if rationality truely has returned to the marketplace it certainly bodes ill for sellers. They will have a much harder time dealing with reality than buyers which suggests continued low sales volumes for the forseeable future.

[Lionel]

"Mike, This blog is polluted with greedy speculators who are trying to talk down the market for their own personal gain. it's a waste of time trying to reason with them."

shockg, thanks for the morning laugh. Since the Farside stopped appearing in the funnies, I didn't know where to turn. Now I know I can just look for your comments. A blog with a few hundred viewers is going to affect a multi-trillion dollar market? That's a good one.

[Robert]

These speculators and realtors are also the problem because they also encourage and behaving like an appraisal even though they don't have any justification for these inflated prices.

We'll I'm not wasting my time on the market and would have to wait until homes becomes really cheap and then maybe I'll buy. I have 100K for downpayment with a credit score of 780 and a household income of 140K. I'm sure don't want to pay 600K for a house that it's really worth only 300K.

I'll leave my money instead on a CD and wait. Screw the Real Estate Market

hohohohoho!!!!

[Robert]

Oh.. I forgot to mention that I have 5 more couple friends who are renting and we are all waiting to see the price come down. We all share the same opinions that prices are sky high and that's why you only see buyers who are on subprime loans buying these inflated homes and starting to burst.

hehehe!. good for them and they all deserved this. Realtors, no sales from us and you better look for another job...

yehawww...

[JK]

Mike T, I liked KC The Bitter Renter's rant. A lot of us are singing the same song (Keep It Coming Love by KC and the Sunshine Band) and dancing around hoping the fall continues.

If we were speculators waiting to buy low and sell high, that would be one thing, but most of us are average Joes and Janes just waiting to be able to afford a place of our own; of course we are happy about the coming crash.

[GDC]

Mike T:

I don't want to get too much into details on my personal finances but since one of the discussion points on this blog is affordability, here it goes: I have a wife and two kids and own a small condo on the Westside with about $250k in equity (I bought in 2002 and it's up probably around 40% since). Our combined income is about $350k. For my situation, and with somewhat huge expenses (mostly children related), I think I should be able to afford a $700k mortgage on a conventional 30 year fixed with a $150k down payment. I've been looking for about 3 years now and can't find a decent 2000 sq ft home on the Westside for under $1 mil. I work in Century City and I don't want a long commute (been there, done that, not for me). It's very frustrating.

[Gary B]

Whats the matter mike?.................................... Oh YOU just got your realestate license, ; ) got it!

[Leavin' LA]

JK: That's nice. But you do realize that these things are cyclical. So prices will indeed drop, you'll buy in, values will rise... then they'll drop again and you'll be on the other side of the debate. The drops hit every 10 years or so. Just something to remember when you're feeling smug. But it is your turn at bat -- to hit then get hit ;-)

[Peter I]

Although I'm pleased that prices are starting to drift downward, I am troubled by the celebratory mood in many of these posts.

Not everyone who will suffer (or has suffered) because of this mess was a colluder or participant in the bubble, you know. Have some decency, people.

[Leavin' LA]

Peter: I have pleading the same since this blog started, but this place attracts an inordinate number of folks who relish others' misery.Fortunately, they do not represent society as a whole. But it's frightening that so many people are relentlessly mean-spirited and incredibly short-sighted at the same time. They love their sour grapes, and have gotten very drunk on the poisonous wine of celebrating others' misfortune. Karma's gonna bite them hard some day.

[firesale]

How's this for heartless?

Anyone who chased this market after 2002 helped
to create this situation and deserves to burn for it.

Burn, baby! Burn!

[JK]

Leavin' LA,

You losing your house or something? You are right, I am absolutely gleeful that the housing market is crashing although not for the reasons you think... I couldn't care less about people losing their homes, most of them should not have qualified for the home in the first place.

I'm gleeful at the thought that after maintaining a 797 credit score, earning $92,000 a year and managing to save up close to $100,000 for a down payment, I may finally be able to afford a starter home soon.

Because of their' lies, deception, ignorance, or stupididty (take your pick) these people help drive real estate prices out of reach for the average American family. They were happy and smug in doing so and didn't mind looking down on those that were priced out. They never thought the bottom would fall out from under them.

I didn't see any of these bleeding hearts when housing prices were skyrocketing. Now that they are coming back to earth, I'm supposed to feel bad?... NOT!

[JK]

Peter I - Why wouldn't people celebrate that fact that they will finally be able to buy a home?

Leavin' LA - no, I won't be in the same position in the next 10 years, do you know why? Because I will buy my home to live in, not to flip. I will get a good deal and when the market crashes again, I won't worry because I will have a mortgage I can comfortably afford. Sounds like the sour grapes belong to you! Enjoy!

[Leavin' LA]

No sour grapes here, JK -- I'm doing just fine, thanks. I'm making the point that these markets are all cyclical. Enjoy your successes and celebrate your victories and your saving a downpayment. That's an impressive achievement.

But remember that you could be on the other end some day, despite your best intentions. The economy burps. You have a dire, cash-sucking medical issue you didn't forsee. Your $92K job vanishes forever -- hell, I lost a $125K job years ago that only existed in three companies in the world. I moved on.

In the 90s, I owned and lived in a condo when the market crashed. Bought to live in and hold long-term. The value plummeted and I was transferred out of town (that wasn't in my original plan), so we rented it, then sold it at just over break-even when the market came back a few years later. Didn't lose money on it. Markets go up, markets come down. There are a million variables beyond your vision of how it should be, countless "could bes" coming together at random at any point in time. It's all a moving target.

But celebrating others' misery demeans all of us. And cheerleading for people's live to be destroyed because they didn't think and do what you fantasize that you would have thought and done in the same situation seems to be what this blog has become, unfortunately. I'm sure that's why some of the knowledgeable professionals who have posted here at various times seem to have vanished. They're out making money while you and your compatriots act out your real estate schoolyard bully fantasies.

I stop in here for amusement mostly. But there's less and less of that as more and more of you all drink from the poisoned Koolaid of the "they're all felons and fools and we're all faultless financial geniuses." If you're religious, spiritual but not religious, or into Zen, you're setting yourself up for a serious Karma hit. Let God do the judging -- it's not your place. Don't ask the Universe for an ugly Karma hit. Don't focus so strongly on failure that it must come into your own life by simple physics. Just "be" without judging.

Sad when some in society turn into sport the stomping on those who have fallen. If you'd (that's the collective you, not just JK you) spend as much energy on your own life as you do celebrating that others' have fallen apart, you'd be making $184K and have $200K in the bank.

[JK]

Leavin' LA,

Save the sanctamonious lecture for someone who cares, I don't. These peoples' lives are not falling apart! At worst, they will be what they should have been all along... Renters! Say whatever you want, threaten me with any kind of karma, Zen or whatever gobbledegook you want... I will still cheer this real estate crash!

And I cheer not just for me, but for the average, honest, responsible American family that has had to wait on the sidelines while the greedy, the liars and the stupid screwed them over! I can't wait until the median home price falls to where it should be ($250,000 - $350,000). You think I am happy now, wait until then! I'm warning, you will be sick of me!

As a previous poster said... burn baby burn!

[joeinlosangeles]

--Leavin' LA,
Save the sanctamonious lecture for someone who cares, I don't. --

Ever notice that the people who declare they are going to leave, never do so quietly. They always have an (unshared) sense of their grandiose self-importance and always want to deliver a lecture as they stand at the door, completely unaware of the glazed eyes impatiently waiting for the drone to stop.

[Leavin' LA]

JK: I'm not hurling any kind of karma your way -- you've called that one up yourself, and it's gonna be a beaut. And I guess you haven't noticed that those of us with a conscience and an ounce of compassion already are tired of your sad, angry world view.

Joe: I didn't say I was leaving. I simply said the vitriol and hatred in this group saddens me. On the other hand, if I were Pete, I'd be thrilled because it is good for page views -- and I'm glad to help by pissing the rest of you off.

But watching you all cheerlead for the scorched-earth ruin of others is a lot like watching a huge car crash -- it's hard to look away.

Have you and JK and your angry band set a date yet for the public desembowling of sub-prime borrowers on Pershing Square? Will it be pay-per-view? Have you negotiated a waiver with the WGA yet?

[joeinlosangeles]

I was talking about your screenname, "LeavinLA." And, no, you don't piss me off in the slightest. I am just slightly amused at your assumptions of how everyone thinks, so you can set up your little straw men to go on your little moralistic rants.

As far as "vitriol and hatred," ah heck, raging emotion is pretty typical of an anonymous Internet newsgroups. It's a lot of id talk and kneejerk reactions and unaccountable chest-puffing, so I take the opinions I read here with a huge grain of salt. What interests me, really, isn't the opinions as much as the raw data that is being used to support the reasoning. I don't really care much about most of the personal opinions or the philosophical/moral viewpoints of the people here. I look at this blog as one place to gather information to help me make the most intelligent business/investing decisions possible.

--Joe: I didn't say I was leaving. I simply said the vitriol and hatred in this group saddens me. On the other hand, if I were Pete, I'd be thrilled because it is good for page views -- and I'm glad to help by pissing the rest of you off.--

[Leavin' LA]

You wrote: "I was talking about your screenname, "LeavinLA." And, no, you don't piss me off in the slightest. I am just slightly amused at your assumptions of how everyone thinks, so you can set up your little straw men to go on your little moralistic rants.

As far as "vitriol and hatred," ah heck, raging emotion is pretty typical of an anonymous Internet newsgroups. "

No straw men here -- you just disagree that not everyone is a criminal who should have a scarlet "S" branded on their foreheads. My arguments are as valid as yours, sunshine.

And even though I left LA, I still have profitable property there. So I have a vested interest in what's going on.

As for your last paragraph, you are absolutely right. These types of blogs tend to attract those who are the most pissed off. Which is kind of nice, really, because I can check in on what the meanest, nastiest 100 people in LA are saying.

It's all good. I wish you and yours a terrific New Year!

[sheila]

i think leavin LA makes a valid point that not everyone whose property values are plummeting was a short-sighted, greedy jerk. a ton of people bought property in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 and even into 2005 because it was the right time in their lives to buy their home (babies, a bonus at work, landlord selling their rental, etc.). they bought houses they could afford, with normal mortgages, live in them, didn't flip or refi, and are paying as promised. model citizens who didn't "time the market" or "cause the bubble" but just bought a normal house as a normal life stage.

to rejoice in them losing all their equity (and more) by the market crashing so you can beat the system seems really petty. what if your wife got cancer and all of us hoped out loud that she would die soon so she doesn't raise our insurance premiums? technically we would be entirely justified, since that's how insurance works, but would that make it ok?

not all homeowners are greedy dirtbags who deserve to lose everything. if they are, then why do you people aspire so hard to become one?