5% mortgage rates and Baja blues

Goodnight, Jimmy Clausen.  Various headlines, insights and stuff worth reading from here and there:

--Lou Barnes sees serious economic trouble coming, says the Fed's statements lately reveal it to be "incompetent," but also sees a major silver lining: Things are so bad he expects repeat rate-cutting by the Fed, which will mean lower mortgage rates soon: "It is reasonable to expect fixed mortgages in the fives shortly, a boost to buyers and an escape for those who need a refinance escape."

--Economist and comedian Ben Stein bloviates in the New York Times about the sub-prime crisis and notes the dishonesty of many borrowers: "What is often overlooked is that many borrowers, people who look at themselves in the mirror every morning, lied like madmen to get their mortgages."

--Overlooked (by us) in yesterday's Countrywide news, the L.A. Times goes to Baja California and finds a bursting bubble in the condo market that is burning numerous American investors. "Upward of 40% of the condos in some northern Baja projects were purchased by flippers who intended to resell them even before construction was finished." I can't imagine those flippers will find much sympathy on this blog. (Is there a blog where flippers in trouble commiserate?)

--The L.A. Times also warns of foreclosure rescue scams, which are on the rise.

Thoughts? Comments? Insights?

Comments

[sunsetbeachguy]

The American speculators aren't limited in their international speculation to Baja.

I met a couple of Boomers who didn't speak Spanish attempting to build a "resort" in mainland Mexico with housing bubble gains.

The locals will bleed them dry.

Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Panama have all been overrun by boomer expats speculating on Latin American real estate.

[Lionel]

"I can't imagine those stuck flippers will find much sympathy on this blog."

Well, Peter, since these particular mouth-breathers only managed to over-inflate prices in Mexico, I mostly find them comical. Not exactly sympathy, but at least I don't feel unmitigated hatred toward them! That's gotta count for something!

[yourkillingmelarry]

" things are so bad he expects repeat rate-cutting by the Fed, which will mean lower mortgage rates soon: "It is reasonable to expect fixed mortgages in the fives shortly, a boost to buyers and an escape for those who need a refinance escape."

What Lou is saying is that the FED is way behind the curve and we are going fast into a recession. If people are losing or afraid of losing their jobs they are not buying RE. Even if the FED lowers, the Wall Street financing that S. Cal has become so dependent on will not be recognizable. Strict underwriting is here to stay. (thank God!) Historical perspectives include Japan lowering to zero with home prices continuing to fall, S Cal in the early 90's the FED lowered 400 bps and prices fell 30%. Don't be surprised when the FED begins lowering (and they will) it will equate to the "mouse that roared". California experienced a wave that rose, crested, and crashed. Once that happens you cannot go back.

[BetterVillage]

Good grief... the news is just getting out about Northern Baja?

Little horror story about beachfront condos over there: Friend "purchased" a condo there over a year ago with a third of the money in an american style escrow account, supposedly protected by american style title insurance. Transaction was supposed to be complete in about a month or two. She had purchased it from a couple that had invested pre-construction, and who were willing to break even just to get out of it as the anticipated the slowing of the frenzy.

So the games were afoot. First, I had to advise the friend on all the title problems like existing litigation, prior claims by the "ejidos" that can tie up properties for years over there when someone pulls out or forges centuries old claims to the land. There are very slick attorneys that specialize in nasty extortionery lawsuits that mean "pay me off" or I will keep you tied up in court for years with my friend the judge.

But friend was one of those loveable americans that "leave their brains at the border." They didn't care... she believed what the brokers and banks and developers were telling her... just a few more mananas and all will be well. Months turned to seasons and optimism turned to consternation. Eventually she turned to a local attorney who, it seemed, needed a lot of "filling in" by me on the quirks of the purchase.

Ultimately it fell on the developer's lender to sign off on the sale contract, but they kept pushing the mananas until finally they were forced into a corner, and admitted that they had been paid off and their was new financing on the project. It took a lot of patience and cajoling, but I finally guided her into getting all of her money back and cancellation of escrow. Her only loss was her dream and the interest on a large chunk of cash.

And here's the kicker.... for those who don't know the market... individuals are not allowed to own residential property outright in the coastal zone. The federal government created the "fideocomiso" or bank trust as a device to give buyers the feeling of ownership, but without any guarantee that the property will stay "theirs" or that at the end of the term of the trust (50 years plus 50 year renewal) it will not revert to the bank or some other person or entity. So even with the "american style" escrow and insurance, the nightmares do occur down there. The fideocomiso is fairly new, has yet to be tested, and there doesn't seem to be any clarity on what happens 1 year, 5 years, or 100 years down the line. Could be a much simpler process buying an existing freestanding home or buying a property outright for income purposes with a Mexican corporation, but have no experience with this.

Brian Flock is a great guy and a straight shooter. For further reading on the seemy underbelly of baja real estate check out Nancy Conroy's www.gringogazettenorth.com

Also check out Serge Dedina's www.wildcoast.net He doesn't have much good to say about the filth that flows into the ocean around Rosarito/Tijuana, or the proposed developement of northern baja (without the necessary infrastructure to support it... like treatment plants... power, etc.) There's a lot of good to be found just south of the border, but a lot to watch out for too

And watch out for Officer Gonzalez who stakes out the highway just outside of Rosarito. He's made a science of sucking large wads of cash out of people who just want to get home.

[Willie]

You are right, no sympathy from me. Who in their right mind will refinance their home, take money out, plunge it on condo in MX, which you don't own outrigt (fideicomiso), to see if another fool, just like them, will give them more money.

I can only say that the virus will continue to spread to pricier locations in MX, read that Cabo San Lucas and San Jose del Cabo as time passes and the market here at home continues to deteriorate. At these locales speculation is rampant. People ask millions for property located in an area in which there is only one road in or out of town, no adequate medical facilities, smells bad for using grey water to water the plants, mosquito infested (my 1 1/2 year song got dengue while there), horrendous traffic (I counted at least one traffic fatality a day while there for 2 weeks), extremely expensive to live, no adequate selection for goods or services and the people aren't as friendly as they used to be.

My wife's brother in law is buying a home there that was selling in the $700,000 range for a little over $400,000 a $300,000 LOSS for the seller! The virus is spreading south and if you have a significant investment, get out while you can.

Is kinda of funny that while attending one of those timeshare presentations, one of the pitches is to refinance your U.S. home, take cash out and pay for a vacation club valued at least $45,000 that you will never be able to sell, have to pay membership fee of close to a $1000.00 per year, booking fees and other funny fees which amounts pretty much to the cost of simply booking a hotel room or condo somewhere in the world. The sad thing, while there, saw that there are still fools in the world buying this crap, at least 1/2 dozen of them in the 2 1/2 hours we spent there.

Mexico is not for Americans, nor they loved us. The only thing they care about is our money and sending their destitutes north of the border. In the meantime, we destitute those that are here, send their manufacturing jobs south of the border or to China and our white collar jobs to call centers in India, Phillipines and Mexico (Spanish calls).

In short, I would not pay more than $50ks for a hole in sky (read that a MX condo) that I don't own and could easily loose since there are no legal protections for the Americans fools with dream of riches. MX is completely based on speculation and their RE prices are not rooted on any formula other than what the next fool is willing to pay for an already overpriced property.

[John T Watts]

The Idea of moving to Mexico as a retired person still has some appeal. With the cost of labor being so low you could have household help at a very reasonable price. Maybe it makes more sense to just rent though. Then you can change your mind and move again if you decide to. Maybe some of those people who are stuck owning those condos would like to just rent them out to Americans. At least there would be some return on equity.

[srla]

If Barnes is correct and the Fed does indeed lower the rates by 1%, it will be FURTHER evidence of their incompetence, given that their supposed goal is the containment of inflation. In fact, over the past few days, at least 4 of the Fed governors have voiced serious concern over the prospect of runaway inflation in the face of any potential rate cuts. Initiating such an inflationary process as we enter a recession could be disastrous.

Furthermore, by continuing to use the ridiculously outdated metric "Owner's Equivalent Rent" in calculating the CPI, the Fed has completely ignored the huge impact of the housing bubble on inflation. Were actual housing costs factored in, inflation would have hovered at around 8% nationwide the past few years. Add to this skyrocketing cost of food, ALSO not included in the CPI, and we have a situation where any further Fed-induced inflationary spiral could be catastrophic for working Americans.

And, of course, the TRUE aim of any Fed bailout would not be to assist those with re-setting ARMS but to allow Hedge funds a window to dump their faux-AAA mortgage notes on whomever they can con into buying them. In order to buy this window of opportunity for these fat cats - who were largely responsible for the bubble in the first place - we would be risking the financial futures of millions who actually work for a living. Now THAT would be truly incompetent.

[Ritchie]

"But friend was one of those loveable americans that "leave their brains at the border."
There's also a lot of loveable Americans that leave their brains at:
The realtor's office
The mortgage broker's office
In front of their own mailboxes looking at the latest credit offer
My take is that a lot of Americans never take their brains with them even in our own great country

[Sam]

I have known too many people who have been burned in Mexico RE. A simple rule is you buy nothing outside of the US. If you have $500K to loose, try loosing it in the US, at lease you have some recourse and can sue. If you want to live in Mexico rent at a third the cost from the many chumps who just got put together by Trump and friends or the many happy time share owners who need help with their ever rising HOA fees. As far as mortgage rates Lou is right it will be soon be time to party because the fed will have mortgage rates at 5% or lower, it is the only hope for the Republicans to win the election this year. Watch it unfold, sadly it is all politics.

[rocky]

-- in defense of Mexico real estate, I own a villa in PV that throws off $95K a year in rental revenue...... if you are careful, you can do well with a RE investment.

[shockg]

"Overlooked (by us) in yesterday's Countrywide news" How could doom and gloom Peter Viles miss a chance to post negative news in a timely manner??

[Mr. X]

Here's an F.Y.I. about the Fideicomiso, or Bank Trust that is set up to allow foreigners to buy coastal and border property in Mexico:

Can Americans buy property in Mexico?

THE BANK TRUST: A GUIDE TO BUYING REAL STATE FOR FOREIGN RESIDENTS OR INVESTORS IN MÉXICO.

The Mexican law permits foreigners to acquire the rights to use, enjoy and other wise take advantage of real estate located in the coastal and border areas of Mexico. A trust (fideicomiso) is the only legal instrument available to foreigners for acquiring land in México for tourist or industrial purposes. The trust contains the same obligations that full ownership of property gives.

WHAT IS A TRUST INSTITUTION?

In México, a Trust Institution includes those banks authorized to open fiduciary accounts and conduct trust operations. The trustee (bank institution) holds legal title to the real state property during the term of the trust and is empowered to achieve the objectives of the contractual agreement creating the trust.

WHAT ARE THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE TRUST AGREEMENT?

In the trust deed, the present owner of the land would appear as the settlor or trustor (fideicomitente) and would thereby deliver title of the real state to the trustee (the bank), who would hold the property during the life of trust (50 years) . The buyer would appear as the Beneficiary (fideicomisario) with absolute use of the property.

The legal effect of the trust deed is that the trustee keeps temporary ownership of the real state to comply with the law (Article 27 of the Mexican Constitution) that prohibits foreigners from full ownership of real state located within 50 kilometers of the coastlines and 100 kilometers from the border areas of México

As foreigner you can not record a title to land within these zones, but can own the beneficial interest to such land. It is, in a way, like owing 100 percent of the shares of a corporation which in turn owns a farm. It is for practical porposes like owning the farming fee simple but through an intermediary.

WHAT MIGRATORY STATUS MUST A FOREIGNER HAVE IN ORDER TO ENTER INTO A TRUST AGREEMENT?

You need not have special migratory status in order to enter in to this type of agreement, since you do not acquire the property, but only the use and possession of the land, condominium or house.

WHAT REQUIREMENTS ARE NECESARY?

You or the seller provide to the bank the following documents and information:
a) A copy of the real state title or deed indicating the exact surface area, meets and bounds (these documents are given by the seller)

b) Your name, nationality, occupation, address and phone number.

c) The name (s), nationality, adress (es) and phone number of the substitute beneficiary (ies) in case you become deceased during the life of the trust.

d) The agreed purchase price.

Upon receiving the information and documents above, the bank shall produce to apply to the Foreign Affairs Secretariat (Secretaria de Relaciones Exteriores) for the permit authorizing the trust deed.

Upon obtaining the permit, the bank shall proceed to formalize and legalize the trust deed before a Notary public.

Notaries in Mexico have far greater legal status and competence than those in the United States:
The Notary Public is an Attorney at Law who is authorized by the State government to give final formality to the title transfer process in the official register (protocol book). The resulting document taken from this book is registered at the public registry of Properties, and it gives evidence of title in the name of the buyer.

In the event you cannot be present at the signing of the trust deed before the Notary Public, a letter is required stating you accept the terms of the trust agreement.

WHAT RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS DOES THE BENEFICIARY ASSUME UPON THE COMPLETION OF THE TRUST DEED?

As the beneficiary, you will have the full use and sole possession of the property; that is, you may live on the land and undertake any alterations and improvements. You also have the capacity to instruct the Trustee to mortgage the real estate, to rent it, sell it, incorporate it, or perform any legal act derived from ownership.

If you sell the property to another foreigner, you may assign your beneficial interest to the new purchaser. This new assignment of rights must be formalized before a Mexican Notary Public, prior to the payment of any federal and local taxes and fees that arise from the transfer of beneficiary right.

You will have the obligation to pay any duties connected with the land, i.e.: real state and water service taxes, as well as the trustee´s annual fee.

WHAT FEES WILL THE TRUSTEE CHARGE FOR THIS TYPE OF TRUST?

The fees which a bank typically charges for this type of trust are:

a) To accept the trust : $500.00 DLLS. (Minimum) payable upon the singing of the deed.
b) For handling and servicing the trust. $500.00 DLLS., (minimum) annually (approximately),calculated on the net value of the property held in trust. This fee is subject to your payment in advance.

Every year, on the anniversary date of the trust, the bank shall mail to your address the bill for the annual fee for handling and servicing the trust. When you receive that bill, you send a personal check payable to order of the bank.

All Trustees' fees have a Value Added Tax (I.V.A.) of 10% (ten percent) of the amounted to it. Unlike the U.S. the value of services is taxed.

WHAT OTHER EXPENSES MUST THE BENEFICIARY MEET UPON THE COMPLETION TRUST DEED?

You must pay the fees, taxes and expenses that arise from the purchase as well as the formalization of the trust deed before the Notary Public, including the cost of an official translator.

The cost and taxes of the operation are the same as those that would be paid for a normal title transfer from one Mexican to another:

Also, you will pay the cost of permit that must be obtained from the Secretary of Foreign Affairs to acquire the property in trust, and record the trust deed at the National Registry of Foreign Investment.

WHAT HAPPENS IS THE BENEFICIARY SHOULD DIE DURING THE LEGAL PERIODOF THE TRUST?

The beneficiary has the right to appoint substitute beneficiary (ies) who will receive all the rights and obligations that arise from the trust if the beneficiary dies during the life of the trust.

WHAT WILL HAPPEN AT THE EXPIRATION OF THE TRUST?

On may 16, 1989, a presidential decree was issued establishing, new regulations for Law to Promote Mexican Investment and Regulate Foreign Investment (Reglamento de la Ley para promover la Inversion Extranjera).

According to Article 20 of these Regulations, the Foreign Affairs Secretariat shall allow the renewal of the trust upon expiration of its term (generally 50 years) provided that the following requirements are met:

1. - That beneficiaries, terms, conditions and purpose of the real estate in the new trust are the same as those of the expired trust.
2. - That the renewal be requested 180 days prior to the expiration of the original term.

Furthermore, the Foreign Affairs Secretariat may authorize a new trust over any real estate transfered from one trust to another for a period up to 50 years when the beneficiaries of the original trust are different.

THE TRUST DIVISION OF BANK INTITUTIONS IN MEXICO SUCH AS BANAMEX, BANORTE OR BBVA BANCOMER WITH ITS STAFF OF HIGHLY TRAINED SPECIALISTS, ARE IN THE BEST POSITION TO HANDLE THIS PARTICULAR TYPE OF TRUST AGREEMENT, AND TO SOLVE ANY SITUATIONS THAT MAY ARISE THEREFORE.

[investorguy]

Bravo, Rocky!

And your last sentence says it all.

[Willie]

Rocky wrote:

"-- in defense of Mexico real estate, I own a villa in PV that throws off $95K a year in rental revenue...... if you are careful, you can do well with a RE investment."

If you are a U.S. Citizen you don't own anything, but a "fideicomiso." Further, it is true that you can make a killing in MX in rental revenue assuming that you have the right kind of property and good agents marketing it. Missing from the equation is how much you paid for the property and whether you have already had a good return on your investment based on income and expenses.

It is easy to say that I have 95k a year in rental revenue, but if your mortgage payment and expenses are $10k a month you are in the red assuming you have a multimillion dollar property of course. Maybe you just need to give a little more info to evaluate your statement. Some companies can make millions in gross profits that translate to loses once everything on the table has been counted.

By the I do own property in PV as well and know the in and outs of the whole rental scheme.

[Shawn]

Thank you, Sria, well done and well put you are 100% correct. Enjoyed reading it. Hope there are more people like you to open the truth for millions that might not know or realize of what hase been going on here.

[rocky]

arggh. forgot about my posting and now all the posters have gone away....... Willie, in response..... expenses all in run $4350/mo. I market on vrbo, craiglist, and Mexican Destinations. I get virtually all my business from vrbo and craigslist....... our agent's places people that look too late to book with us. We are happy with the ROI on this property and are pleased with bookings. For example, we rented 3 months to a couple from NY for the high season 2008, and they paid us $1K to have the "right of first refusal" to rent it again for three months for the high season in 2009. They have to decide by March 31, 2008 about 2009..... and again I say...... if you pay attention, and chose carefully, one can do well.

[TRUMPED]

BUYER BEWARE...I purchased with Trump Baja and was told there would be a completion date of December 2008, it was also in the contract. Seven months into the purchase I was sent a HUD report and told there would be a 3rd quarter of 2009 completion date because the HUD report released Trump Baja from any obligation to complete by December 2008. Included in that HUD report was the option to cancel the contact within 2 years of signing the contract. I have tried to cancel according to the terms (HUD Document) of the contract but Trump Baja/ Irongate/ S&P Properties has not respected the terms of the agreement and refuse to refund my deposit.

Through many hours of research I have found many irregularities involved in the Trump Baja Resort investment. NUMBER ONE just how safe is the area? After doing a Google search using the key words Baja robberies which to my surprise turned up 124,000 results. I did the same search for San Diego and that result was 906,000 but it is important to keep in mind the size of San Diego. Tijuana has a much smaller population and it is common in Mexico that the majority of crimes are not reported, in the US they are. The biggest difference with crime in Mexico and the US is in the States there is justice and in Mexico the justice system in most cases is non-existent. It is common practice for the police to be involved in criminal activities and in the US that is almost non-existent. BUYER BEWARE…I can almost guarantee Donald Trump has never visited the build site and if this is true I think we all know the reason why, he understands the risk factor. Kidnappings are at an all time high in the Tijuana area, are the developers thinking about the safety of the Trump Baja Owners or are they just trying to make a quick buck. With the high risk factor how many high end renters will be attracted to the resort, I would assume many investors purchased with the idea of a rental return, under the current conditions that might just be a pie in the sky.

Another major concern is the raw sewage treatment plant that is located just behind the resort, to date there is an awful odor that comes from that plant. Trump/Irongate has assured me that the smell will go away, they cannot explain how or why it will go away but they assure me the smell will not be there upon completion . What if it doesn’t , what will that 200 million dollar resort be worth? Did Trump/ Irongate really do their homework before purchasing this property? I am embarrassed and feel like a fool but I did not visit the site before purchase and took the sales representative's word that the location was pristine and without problems. BUYER BEWARE…that is a problem. Google Trump Baja raw sewage there are currently 399 items and the list is growing quickly.

When I purchased the Trump Baja resort I did not purchase a condominium unit I purchased the Trump name for which at that time I thought stood for first class developments not deceit. It seems like I was wrong and because of this I am committed to getting the word out BUYER BEWARE.

FYI…I am not new to Mexico I live and have lived in Southern Mexico for the past 26 years. As a word of wisdom do your research before purchasing, I didn’t and I have learned I will never make the same mistake twice.

[D L Jefferson]

We purchase a buildable lot in El Dorado Ranch, San Felipe, Baja, in 2002. We planned to build in this planned community and retire there. We paid a premium price for a end of the cul-de-sac lot with open space to the east (view of the beach) and the south (the future horse trails to the mountains). Last year we went to visit our lot and discovered that we no longer had any open space--the developer had built roads on three sides of our parcel and subdivided lots in the "horse trail" area. The developer, Pat Butler instructed the realtor, Rich Brannon of R-Mac to trade lots for us. We no longer trust them and have asked them to refund our purchase price. Sudenly they are no longer in contact with us. Has anyone else had this experience with this group in San Felipe or elsewhere in Baja?

[JVK]

Beware El Dorado Ranch!
My wife and I "bought" a condo. They demanded the money up front before it being built. They took too long to build it, the deal fell through back in September.
To this day they refuse to refund my money. They used to make up excuses- saying they don't have the money to pay us back. They don't return phone calls. We only get voice mail, the run around.

They don't have the money to pay us back? They are in serious financial trouble. We are now in the process of seeking legal council.

We found out that we are not the only ones. We are told we are "in line". Even if they resell "our" condo, which is next to the beach, they still will not pay us back. We have to wait until they "get the money". Not only that, but they jacked up the price of the condo 50%!!!
No wonder they can't sell them! They don't even talk about paying me interest, sharing the profit with me. I don't even know if they are going to pay me back at all.
In my opinion, it is an absolute rip off. Their contracts mean nothing. They lie and then just blow us off.
Not only that, but they nickel and dime you every way they can. One of the reasons the deal fell through was the financing. We tried to refinance it, but the broker they have tried to rip us off too. There is only one broker who supposedly has the ability to deal with them, he lives in el dorado ranch right now. Every time we talked to him the fees went up. Astronomical, rip off fees. Interest rates went up, points went up, fees added on, such as interpreters for $2500.00, etc... Pat Butler wants 13% interest. So we pulled out. And now six months later, they do not pay us back. They will not return phone calls. Nothing!!! They owe me over 200K and they won't even return my phone calls. They can't pay me back- they are going bankrupt!!!!!!!!!!
BEWARE BEWARE BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MZ]

I have purchased one Trump Baja unit and pumped in 20% of the down pay already. As it has turned out this year, all signs indicate something bad are happening or about to happen. I would be very interested in knowing more about the HUD report and the terms and conditions of cancellation. Can "Trumped" contact me at mzhou@usc.edu please?

[MZ]

Dear Fellow Buyers of Trump Baja,

I ended calling up Trump Baja. From what I heard, they have been making rounds of calls to pacify the buyers (apparently they have skipped us); Irongate has already got the permit, and the loan has been approved. As soon as the money is in place, they could go vertical with the 2nd Tower. It would take another 2 years since the 2nd Tower go vertical to finish up the project. They are not in any marketing campaign now, as we could all tell, and expected to launch a new campaign around this time next year.

This is all the info I have garnered so far; hope could be of some use.

Having not kept their buyers on the same page is definitely a bad move on their part; Now looking back, I also want to remind ourselves of not letting the fear factors get in the way of making any hurried and impulsive decisions.

[RFC]

Correct Info? Seems like Irongate/ Trump Baja did not get their funds and the resort has not and pobably will not be built. MZ who did you talk to over their? Your email sounded like a plug rather than an email from a concerned buyer?

[Michael Mikelic]

I am also disappointed on how slowly construction of the project is going but I still think we should give the developer the benefit of the doubt. We are in the mist of one of the worst financial meltdowns in modern history. This no doubt has made obtaining financing more difficult for the developer. But like all of you I am concerned about the wisdom of my investment in this project. I would like to form a dialog with other investors to share experiences and keep one another informed. Please all send me an email mmikelic@kpp.us.com

[RFC]

The probability that Trump Baja will ever be built is slim to none. The developers pulled the wool over all the purchasers’ eyes by selling the product in San Diego to Americans only. If they would have done this sale in Mexico to Mexicans it would have been totally illegal. To start off they did not even have building permits to build the resort and it is questionable that they even have the permits today. They supposedly did $160 Million in sales with 30% deposit monies that is $48 Million in cash collected. They say they DO NOT have any money, what happened to the $48 Million? I do not care that they cannot get financing to build the project; they should have already had the funds to build before taking our money. Didn’t Trump/ Irongate just get done selling $800 Million in Hawaii in one day, where did all the money go? How many of you have purchased and have asked for a refund and have been told they will not refund but offer to sweeten the deal? This project is a runaway train and they are about to crash with our money, what are we going to do about it? We all need to get together and start a class action lawsuit, against first off TheTrump Organization because lets all face it without the Trump name we would have never purchased at the resort. Irongate also included in the suit because they are the ones behind this fiasco. A lien can be put on all of PB Impulsores assets; they are the company on the contracts but claim to not being owners of the property where the resort was to be built. The property apparently is in a trust and according to Irongate it cannot be touched. In Mexico there needs to be proof that the Trust and PB Implusores are the same company and that can be proven. They definitely have created a very sophisticated assortment of companies in order to protect themselves from any legal problems but they are not infallible there are ways of getting at them. We all need to ban together and bring this public, TV, Internet, start a website, Youtube and any other means possible in order to not let Trump and Irongate get away with our hard earned dollars.

[Linda Drake]

Did any of you with money in the Trump Baja Resorts get info today 12/26 from PB Impulsores informing you that you are "buyers" and not "investors" therefore we have no rights such as calling about the progress of the project? They are also referring to themselves as Trump Marks Baja Resorts. It appears that there may be a bigger legal problems for the trio of Trump, Irongate and PB Pulsores as well as S&P Destination Properties (A Canadian company who are selling properties in Steamboat Springs, St Marteen, and Kuai Buyer Beware). We planned to buy the property as an investment and rent it to "the hotel." The latest communique says that we are not investors but we were to buy a residence where we would live? Then, why did S&P Properties attempt to sell us another property in Tower II so we could have a bigger investment? Did any of you have Tracey Collingridge as the sales and marketing person? She told us that the ex - ex Mrs. Trump had purchased a penthouse in Tower I above our unit, Donald Jr. was going to manage this property! Then she, Tracey, felt so positive about the properties of Donald Trump that she had purchased herself a until in every Trump Resort including the new one in HNL. She now owns five condo units. Please e-mail me I would like to join other folks who plan to action against to get my money back. ldainc@earthlink.net