Open House: Culver City

We popped into five Open Houses today in Culver City, where we heard two very bullish accounts of the local market. Rachelle Rosten of Colwell Banker told us, "Good houses, priced well, sell. And there are still a lot of buyers out there."

Bruce Forman, also of Coldwell Banker, told us, "The Culver City market is accelerating in terms of prices. What we're dealing with is a supply and demand issue. The people who ordinarily would be leaving Culver City for better neighborhoods aren't leaving because the neighborhood is getting better."

4235 Keystone Ave. 90232 (pictured): Very pretty but small (998 SF) 2 bedroom 1 bath, lots of sunlight, spacious yard with patio. On the market two days, $749,000. Sales history from Zillow.com: sold 11/97 for $251,500.

4212 Vinton Ave. 90232: Built in 1939, 2 bedroom 1 3/4 bath, 1229 SF home, hardwood floors, "lots of potential" per MLS description, which means it has not been renovated. Designed by Helen Young, female builder known for custom touches and solid construction. Listed in late May at $855,000, sellers are sticking with their number.

4390 Elenda St., 90230: 3 bedroom, 1 bath, 1133 SF, livable but needs work. Small back yard is all dirt. Elderly owners died, home being sold in trust sale. $719,000, sealed bids due by Aug. 27 at 5 pm.

10812 Braddock Dr., 90230: 4 bedroom, 2 bath, 1783 SF on 5100 SF lot; big house for the neighborhood, but back yard is small. On market 51 days, originally listed at $949,000, reduced to $899,000. Recent sale info from Zillow.com: Sold 5/02 for $447,000.

4128 Lincoln Ave., 90232: Newly built 3 bedroom, 3 1/2 bath townhouse, 2200 SF, huge gourmet kitchen, sweeping staircase, 3-car garage. $1.079 million.

Comments

[LA renter]

Unless this is testimony in Gen. Petraeus' report on housing price stability, I'll be a life-long renter... or as long as I live in LA.

[J.White]

Peter,
Zillow's information, sometimes, is not up to date. The property at 4235 Keystone in Culver City was sold in 2001 for $407K, according to propertyshark.

[Toby]

"Good houses, priced well, sell."Rachelle Rosten of Colwell Banker said.

LOL, do they even listen to the stuff they say anymore? $500 to 750 dollars a square foot for Culver City? In fact, I think the Zillow Recent sale prices are FAR closer to the real value, than the artificially inflated new one.

[Mike S]

Peter,

Would be great if you could give a follow-up in a few months to let us know if and how much these sold and what they had to do to sell it. It is a great cross-section of properties and surprising 'bull-market" statements by sellers given it's the last week of August.

MLS

[John T Watts]

Wow! The price of homes there is absolutely amazing. A person selling a home there could buy a great deal more for their money here in my area of Paris Texas and still have money left over to put in a CD and draw interest. Of course, they would have to put up with all the down side issues of living here that many bloggers are so good at articulating. On the other hand some people like it here. But I grew up in Glendale and have lived in Santa Monica and also love California. If I was wealthy enough, I would subscribe to net jets and would have homes all over the place. One place I'd like to have a home would be downtown Los Angeles. It sounds like that is starting to turn into a great place to live. Does Clifton's cafeteria still exist? It was a great place to eat.

[Patrick Goeglein]

The "good houses priced well" phrase is true. The only problem with that is that the "priced well" is below the price that most of the local realtors list their homes. The prices will be coming down once they realize that the lenders are limited. It use to be what rate a lender would charge to do a transaction. Now it is the question; Is there a loan available that can be offered to the new perspective buyer. The Realtors have to write contracts that their lender is able to close on.

[Sam]

I was born in Westchester, near Culver City, and left SoCal 15 years ago. All I can say why would anyone in their right mind buy these dumps for this kind of money. I my self would never go back to LA, it is not the price of RE, it is simply quality of life.

[Rich]

The median income for a single California wage earner is about the same as the national average, around $43,000, so even an average California couple can't afford these houses (and given the descriptions, should be given mental health counseling for even trying). It's impossible for median incomes to be so out of line with prices everywhere in the state, this is simply the wrong neighborhood for the average buyer to be looking. And any upper-middle class buyer who pays these kind of prices for these dinky houses rather than buying a summer home in the Yucatan and banking the cash is a fool. The key to getting the housing market under control is to STOP OVERPAYING. The sellers must obey the market eventually...

[Duquesne]

Just wanted to mention that while Culver City is nice, it's not necessarily the safest area in town. I live on Duquesne Ave, just a block and a half from the Police station here, and someone was shot and killed just out front our place a few weekends ago. The cop said that someone came down from Hawthorne looking for a fight.

There have also been a few people who have been approached by guys with guns in recent years while driving down Ince, near the Culver Studios.

Downtown Culver City is really nice and doesn't feel like the rest of LA to me, but I think Culver's proximity to some rougher areas of LA leads to a lot of spillover crime.

[cdgreen1984@aol.com]

Culver City was intended to be a somewhat exclusive area from the outset. This is especially so for the area in the hills along Overland after Jefferson before it curves and turns back into Jefferson. As a matter of fact, I’m tempted to say that Culver City will be viewed something like Santa Monica, but without the beaches. The 3rd Street Promenade will likely be put up against The Bridge, etc... Point is, it is a very good neighborhood with a decent school system and quite a bit of diversity. I know this first hand because I've lived there the majority of my life. However, what your paying for to live in these homes at this point is just wasteful. The area will assuredly always be higher-end living, but not that high! My suggestion would be for people to just wait it out if they cant afford a home now; if people save their money, when this situation lightens up 6 months, 9 months, 1-year from now, they will be in prime position.

[Anon]

It would be helpful if you included links to zillow or redfin, etc.

[Ace]

'The "good houses priced well" phrase is true. The only problem with that is that the "priced well" is below the price that most of the local realtors list their homes.'

Realtors do not pick the price the home sells for. The owner of the house decides what price to sell the house for. Usually they do it by getting bad information about what houses sell for in their neighborhood. They hear that a neighbor is selling their house for $700k and assume that their house is worth $800k because it must be nicer. Then they interview realtors until they find one that agrees. Realtors would rather have a house that is priced to sell so they get a quick commission. Every day that a house sits on the market, the realtor has to market and advertise it. All of that money comes out of their pocket.

[Eurotrash]

To all posters from out of state:

Ok people, for the last time: WE STAY IN LA AND PAY THESE OUTRAGEOUS PRICES BECAUSE THIS IS WHERE OUR JOBS ARE.

We know that the same $ would buy us a mansion on a lake with an 8-car garage in Texas/Arkansas/Carolina etc. And believe me, we know these prices are crazy, but some of us have jobs that won't travel, so here we are.

So we either pay up and buy, or rent and save in the knowledge (hope?) that one day sanity will return to this market.

[xtine]

THANK YOU EUROTRASH!

The RE prices in BOTH our communities are a DIRECT result of the job market. If I can work there, I can live there. If I can live there I can buy there. Get it?

[Ace]

'To all posters from out of state:'

Why do people from out of state even read this blog? I guess that people bragging about their cheap houses secretly want to move to LA and spend their time reading the LA Times.

Does anyone in LA read about the housing markets in bum-frick Idaho?

[Rich]

"'To all posters from out of state:'Why do people from out of state even read this blog? I guess that people bragging about their cheap houses secretly want to move to LA and spend their time reading the LA Times.

Does anyone in LA read about the housing markets in bum-frick Idaho?"

Believe it or not, the LA Times is a newspaper/webnews page of national stature, like the New York Times and Washington Post, and like those esteemed publications you don't get to show off your ignorance to just the local audience. Many of us live in markets whose housing prices have been artificially inflated because of tricky mortgage products, dishonest practices, and buyer behavior put into play in your California markets, so you guys are under the microscope and many of your fellow citizens from "bum-frick Idaho" would like to see how you're handling this and why you allow it to happen. Your contempt for the rest of us is pretty charming, but most of the places you're denigrating have higher standards of living than LA boulevard life in rotting 1930's bungalows, and we have jobs, too. I loved LA when I visited there 5 years ago but don't think for a minute that life in New England or Maryland or the coastal Carolinas would be any less satisfying. Time for some folks to do some travelling and get a feel for the rest of the country...

[Carolina]

"Why do people from out of state even read this blog? "

I read these blogs due to morbid curiosity and historical interest. The meltdown of the unsustainable housing bubble in Southern California is a chance to observe a once in a lifetime event as it unfolds. It is amazing that otherwise intelligent people, would buy into this classic inflated resource bubble.

This event will become a classic economics case study in future textbooks.

[Sam]

Then change jobs. A JOB is tempory and short lived, especially now days. A house can last forever and normally gets better every year. If you want to sta in LA, stay. In my opinion there so many better places to live then in CA, where RE is almost free in comparison and you won't get killed

[eprobert]

Jobs are temporary but careers are not.

Some of us work in the movie industry or in the automotive industry to name two. Both of those industries are either nonexistent in other places, or declining in other parts of the country (automotive).

I may not be able to buy here on the salary paid by my movie industry job, but I would not have that job if I moved to another state.

Besides, rent is cheap in LA. Most of us only pay 10-15% of our income to rent a nice place that would cost us 1/2 or more of our income to buy. Nothing wrong with that!

[cdgreen1984@aol.com]

Is there a reason why people are acting as if this pricing situation is the real issue? The REAL issue is the availability of any financing....

And another thing to sit on...

This is happening in every state that there are mortgage companies... So CA is not the only place experiencing difficulty in the housing market.

Aside from that, I had always believed this pricing to be relative, just as the salaries are in comparison to where we all live? My understanding of economics is that housing prices have been relative to income since each respective states’ market first developed, and still follows along that course relative to inflation and other such things? If anyone can verify this for me I’d appreciate it, I’d hate to have such misinformation.

[Lawrence Weinman]

All of the houses you noted are listed but which have sold ? Just based on the increase in interest rates for jumbos in the past month the cost of financing these homes makes the monthly payment 15% higher. So just to stay even the price has to drop by 15%,

Then eliminate from the prospective buyer pool anyone who doesn't have $200k or so ready for down payment and a very high fico score.

then tell me how these homes will sell for $800k in culver city

these folks are dreaming

as for realtors i never met one who didn't think it was a great time to buy ...unless of course he is trying to get your listing in which case it's a great time to sell

[JK]

John T Watts - You are correct about Downtown Los Angeles. It has become gentrified and therefore totally unaffordable like the rest of Southern California.

The gentrification does make the place look really nice though. Living in a loft has become the "in" thing to do now if you have an extra $600-$700k laying around. So many people are able to walk to work and enjoy an evergrowing nighlife.

The homeless have been replaced by construction crews... and yes, Cliftons Cafeteria is still there!

[Dr. JwB]

I'm an out - of - stater, moving to LA in December. And while I am happy to move (back) to LA, it isn't like we have much of a choice. My wife and I apply for every job in the western world in our field (openings for academics are rare), and wherever you get an offer, well, you go there. Some people get Oklahoma, others get LA.

My point is this: We know land is cheaper elsewhere, and that many aspects of the QOL are higher in Texas/Arkansas/etc. People who live in LA are not idiots (nor are people who move there, thank you very much). We all have some reason to be there. Let's just assume from now on that everyone in LA knows that they "should move elsewhere", but for whatever reason, CANNOT DO SO. It's not something to discuss, and if you are new to LA Land, don't think you are the first person to suggest it.

Moving away from LA is not a "solution" to our personal housing woes. So let's discuss LA land in that context. Please?

Pete- I know you want free speech, but maybe a few rules are in order, such as "no racist rants", and "no moveaway comments".

As for Culver City, my wife and I thought it was adorable when we visited a few weeks ago . . . so what's this I hear about spillover crime?

[smokey]

Carolina says:

"The meltdown of the unsustainable housing bubble in Southern California is a chance to observe a once in a lifetime event as it unfolds."

I hafta agree. It's like watching Mt.Saint Helen's lava dome grow.

You know it's gonna blow, but how bad will the destruction be.

Billions in equity "up in smoke".....

[Scairdy Cat]

To all of the posters that have left CA for better environs. I'm an L.A. native and would love to stay here, but I just can't see myself being a renter for the rest of my life and have been thinking about splitting town to either Portland, OR, Seattle, WA, Vancouver, BC, Austin, TX, Nashville, TN--even Rosarito, MX. I love CA soo much, but am also envious of other CA natives who have decided to make the move to other states. I've researched QOL issues and can honestly say L.A. isn't all that anymore. Any advice for this scairdy cat whose afraid to make the big jump to other environs?

[Pat]

Seattle and Vancouver are no bargains either. Real estate is quickly catching up to CA levels and incomes are only going up with inflation.

[chris]

i moved out of the california the 2nd week of january this year. i have a house in the high desert in the northern most part of LA county. i was working in long beach and actually staying in long beach during the week and going home to lancaster on the weekends to enjoy my home in the peaceful high desert.

now i live in las vegas. for personal reasons i left LA, but i must say that i'm happier now not having to deal with the all the traffic and the crime that was so "IN YOUR FACE" in the LA area. i'm currently renting out my house in lancaster and using the rent money to upgrade the house. also, my earnings here in vegas has increased roughly a 3rd and i'm using the extra money to eliminate debt. yes its true that my house payment costs me significantly more than what i'm receiving in rent, however i never pulled the equity out of it and because of this i can easily afford to keep the house whether i rent it out or not. the primary reason i rent it out is to keep trespassers out away from it and to keep the hoodlums from destroying the place.

while i do miss living in my comfy home in lancaster (a modest 1080 square foot 3 bed, 2 bath home built in 1970: a very old home in comparison to the rest of lancaster), i have to say that i'm beginning to lean more and more toward the idea of just buying another house here in las vegas. the main reason is QUALITY OF LIFE and PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. i'm a smoker and i'm sick of being demonized. also, the outragious state income taxes in california are something we don't have in nevada. the right to bear arms is more respected here in nevada since you can legally own just about any gun you can think of here and yet the only shootings you hear of are from the same type of hoodlums as in LA. . again, the common man isn't the cause of those problems. there's also a new concept i've learned since leaving california. here in nevada it is an accepted norm to have every right to defend yourself and your property through the use of a firearm without the risk of being targeted by the police as a public nuisance. i consider this a most american of phylosophies. these few things i do hold dear as an american citizen who has actually served my country and are rights that are not only guaranteed by the constitution of the U.S., but rights for which i think i've earned in combat.

unlike the median wage earner, i'm a 6 figure wage earner and i'm proud to know that leaving california also meant no longer having to support what is widely known as a COMMUNIST STATE who supports the rights and priveleges of criminals and social parasites more than the actual tax base who works so hard to pay for the crumbling entity once accepted as the GOLDEN STATE.

[Susan]

> Let's just assume from now on that everyone in LA knows that they
> "should move elsewhere", but for whatever reason, CANNOT DO SO.

Actually, let's not assume any such thing. I live here (own a home) and love it. The weather's great, my community's schools are great, the beach is close, the cultural events available unparalleled-- and I don't have to deal with traffic because I live close to work. Plenty of us here have things worked out just fine. I COULD move, but I don't want to, thank you very much.

[Sam]

Scaridy Cat-I was like you a 3rd generation CA native and lived in CA when it was paradise, and it is no more. I was also very afraid to leave and it came down to my kids, do I want raise them in the hell hole or a place like I enjoyed when I was a child in CA. We left 15 years ago and I cannot tell you what a great move it has been. It goes beyond RE, it is quality of life. It is a risk, yet the upside is so huge, especially if you leave with CA equity. I am writing this in the basement of my 3800 sq ft home on a golf course in the foothills of the Rockies where I can see 20 miles with no pollution. I just bought it for $420K and paid cash, it would go for $2M in OC. I could never do this in CA. I make just $70K here which is the equalivent of making $150K in the hell hole and I save 3X more. There is no low life around me and the schools are Leave it to Beaver. The reality is the down side is minimal and the upside huge if you leave. Life is an adventure and way to short to be stuck on the 405 until the next riot. The hell hole is not worth it.

[LAMike]

Anyone paying the prices asked for these dumps in Culver City has got to be out of his mind. Folks, here is a good way to bring down real estate prices: Just don't pay these insane amounts of money. It is that simple...

[MB Native]

I have been looking at housing prices in LA for several years. I am a native of Manhattan Beach, so I have 30 yrs of experience with that area. The escalation was fueled by the availability of cheap credit. That has peaked, and it is unclear if that will ever be available again in the near future. 1960/1970 tract homes are sitting on the market at $1.25 mil and the new contruction at around $2mil is sitting as well (and the developers are sweating and circling the wagons). If the credit crunch continues to increase, and the availability of buyers decreases, one of two things will happen: 1) prices will fall because people will be forced to sell (due to ARMs, etc.) and attempt to minimize losses, or 2) prices will stay stagnant because people will simply try to wait out the "crisis" and the inventory will balloon and not move. Only the most secure homeowners can truly afford the latter, but most people don't recognize that until it is too late.Unfortuately, I think the latter is more likely because of people's general greed when it comes to selling their house. Only time will tell.

The issue of living in California vs. other locals is subjective, but it is difficult to find a location with the weather, the city, the people, and the general options that Los Angeles offers. That is why 9.5 mil people live here in the first place. If Denver, Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, and (the list goes on) really offered a better lifestyle at bargain prices, more people would leave LA.

Finally, the issue concerning the relationship between income and housing prices needs to be fully recognized. People have been financing their lives with the double-digit housing gains over the last several years. Most people can not afford multiple luxury cars and a $1mil house, but due to the run-up in prices and "imaginative" financing, that has come to pass. The issue is that income gains have lagged far behind housing prices, and that can not be sustained. Salaries/income has to increase dramatically, or prices have to fall. There is no real way around this, and the way the local economy is moving, I doubt the salaries will be able to increase any significant amount to avoid a significant correction in housing prices. The only thing that can "save" the current situation is if there is another influx of liquid cash that can fund it. It came from Wall Street and the securities market (how the cheap credit was provided in the first place)in the past, but that has all but dried up.

[Dr. JwB]

Susan- I agree! I loved living in LA back in the 90s, and I am looking forward to moving back in a few months. I was trying to reduce the moveaway discussion. In hindsight, I should have said that we either live here cause we have to, or because we want to (or both!).

But I think my point stands. This is not a blog about the places we might move away to, if we could/would/should.

[Joe]

Yes there are better places to live, not necessarily in the U.S

I sold my townhouse in Carlsbad last Aug. I saw the defaults comming. Moved to Phuket Thailand. I bought a 2 yr old 2,000 sq ft. modern concrete for $350,000 on a hillside in Patong Beach w/ 360 ocean /mtn view. It would be $2,000.00 plus in S. Cal. , Damm there I go talking about real estate prices!...old habits die hard don't they?

Now if I could only do something about the falling dollar.

Joe in paradise

[caroline c.]

To explain the ulver City prices:
1. There is no rent control in CC, so people have incentive to buy and renovate houses and units. This will help improve neighborhoods and kleep prices and rents high

2. As someone said, it is like Santa Monica sans beaches. Small city with its own Police Department and school system. Has invested in its cute downtown. A bikepath to the beach runs right through it.

3. The immediate neighborhood of the Vinton and Lincoln listings is called Carlson Park. It is a series of no-through streets that run to the bikepath. The cops there just laugh if you ask about crime. There isn't any to speak of. It's a shame that someone from Hawthorne came and killed someone, but that's Hawthorne for you. Carlson Park has been featured as a best kept secret in Los Angeles magazine. When I found it in 1999, I was blown away by the feeling that it was still 1949! Cute houses on big lots. Well kept gardens.

4. Finally, we live in LA because of the weather, I think.

[Moonkat]

I read the LAT because I lived in LA/Santa Monica for 30+ years mostly because that's where the work is/was. But, LA -- for all its dazzle -- is not a great place to actually LIVE. Not even SM; way too much concrete and asphalt. Until 2004 I had a 1100 sf condo near (not on) the beach. It sold for $600K. Eppraisal.com says it sold again in 2006 for $820K. Amazing.
Now I have a 2300 sf house, 3-horse stable, towering trees, plenty of room for beekeeping and veggie gardens on 19 acres in Tennessee.
BTW, I'm an atheist and not having any difficulty living in the so-called "Bible belt." Another BTW: Jobs do exist in other states.

[Ria]

LA, yeah I survived twelve years there on 35-40K a year from 1988-2000. The creative stores,restaurants and art and entertainment venues and were fine, but overall it's a difficult place to exist, a difficult place to nurture lasting friendships/relationships, a place where superficiality reigns supreme, a place where driving is as much a part of life as breathing, a place where the air quality just must shorten lifespan. LA is concrete and cars, egos and fantasies that more often than not remain only that. NYC has its woes, but NYC is real, a city without the pretenses of OZ around the next corner - NY'ers know what's real and what is phony. NYC or LA - no thanks. I can always visit.

[Mike K]

After 34 years we moved from L.A. a little over a year ago to PA. We have a 4,000 Sq.Ft. two story house on an acre of land. The deck that adjoins the master bedroom has a view of the tree covered mountainside about 2 miles away. 4 big bedrooms, 3 full baths, a huge kitchen with island, convection oven & stove, large dining area and a small office. A beautifully finished basement family room that includes a separate theater room with 8 cushioned recliners and a projection TV/DVD. I've turned a large storage room into a weight trainimg room for my son and I. House is 2 years old. Total cost $349,000. Enjoy your smog, traffic jams and million $ shacks, Angelenos...we love it here.

[Jim K]

Well, I've been living in Tucson most of 50 years, and now my Wifes' job opportunities appear to be in LA.

So we're going to keep our low-interst house in Tu son and rent it... and become renters in LA.

Scairdy Cat... maybe I can rent to you while you get the lay of the land.....

But, I'm almost as much of a scairdy cat to move to LA...looks daunting, sometimes.

[Wicked]

my boyfriend lives on Duquesne and about four months ago he was robbed RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE POLICE STATION. when he talked to an officer he was told, "this is the best place to get robbed because we can't hear you when we're inside."

Culver City PD is a JOKE. stay away from Culver City.

[JenCelli]

I'm a CA native that chose to leave the state. One reason I left was the depressing jobs market of the 90s, the price of housing and QOL where the final nail in the coffin. I don't regret moving and I don't believe I will ever go back. Does this bother me? Yes, it does. I have family there struggling to make a living and live the CA dream.

People can lament the woes of the RE market in CA, but to truly understand them and how they became what they are, you'd have to go far back to 1980. that was the last time that anything in the SoCal area was affordable to the middle income wage earner. Until wages can support the purchase of a home, fewer people will be able to afford the dream.

I live and work where I can afford to. Unfortunately, that means it's not in my homestate with my family.

[Tovar_Rog]

Having been born and raised in LA, I remember how bad things were crime wise in the 80s' as kid (crack, tons of drive-bye shootings, uncontrolled gangs, etc)

I left California in 1997 to attend grad school in Pittsburgh, PA and found a whole different world. To be blunt, though Pittsburgh is a great place to visit, it's not LA or SF.

3 months ago I visited LA to visit a property my father left me in Boyle Heights as well as to catch up with old friends. I was UTTERLY surprised at the leaps and bounds of QOL improvement. Downtown LA has experienced a massive revival in my view, and the building of the metros (which rival that system that is here in Washington DC) is despite its setbacks, amazing.

Having to wait in line to enter a glitzy new club off of Alameda that was formally a pi**ing hole for legions of homeless people really blew my mind. Let alone being able to walk down Broadway at night without the concern of being mugged that I used to have as a teen, or walking into a Wine Bar off of Broadway for that matter.

The QOL of life in LA is light years ahead to the QOL I now have in Northern Virginia. With summers that have constant 80-90% humidity, and a transportation system that is built on 2 lane highways...

Tell me, if you get into a car accident in LA/CA and are charged with reckless driving because you lost control of your car and the cop made a snap decision against you (it happens...happened as well to a friend of mine in NY City), do you get hit with an additional penalty of $3000 as we do now here in VA?

No you don't.

To those who speak ill of California...For all it's woes and high costs, it's still an incredible place to live.

Oh and yes, people from out of State DO read the LA Times, and NY Times and the Washington Post.

[Urb girl]

"We have a 4,000 Sq.Ft. two story house on an acre of land."

That's an awfully big house you got there Mike. Do you have 4 kids or more? If not, please stay in Lancaster. We don't need space hogs or McMansions.

I bet you have a big SUV too. I bet you drive that bad boy over an hour and a half to work. No? Call me shocked.

[Ed]

It's crazy everywhere so keep things in perspective. I live in Manhattan, try $5000/sf at the upper end. That said, I'm not retarded and not buying.

[Mike K]

To Urb girl, aka "shocked". I have 3 kids & I drive a small Mazda on the rare occasions when I have to leave my house to drive a few miles to nearby shopping/dining or take the kids 2 miles to their first rate, small class-sizes school. Haven't been stuck in traffic even once since we moved here (I work from my home). Lancaster??? I live in beautiful, clean air, central Pennsylvania, get to read my favorite L.A. Times sports page every day online for free and watch my beloved Dodgers anytime they play with my DirecTV MLB package. We can all get a same day appointment with our family doctor anytime we need to and most of the local merchants greet us by name when we visit their stores.

I have to admit that I do miss being able to enjoy good quality Mexican food now & then.

[John Brodey]

True, owners set the price not agents. If you are an owner, however, who doesn't have to sell for any reason and is expecting to get the kind of multiple offers on a top of the market price, it ain't gonna happen. The house on Vinton mentioned in the article is a good case in point. On the market since the end of May and the owners aren't moving on their price. Idiots, I feel sorry for the agent. 90 days and no action means you are above the current market value. Simple as that. Some houses have been sitting there for six months and nothing. That is a sign.

[S L]

Hey Scairdy cat - go with your gut. I am also a 3rd Gen native Californian, family roots go deep in old LA - Pasadena, Brentwood, Bel Air - and the farms of San Joaquin Valley. I have a longing for the Californai and LA of their old stories, but no desire to live in what it has become. Too crowded, too expensive, too exclusive, too busy, too pretentious. No one knows their neighbors. I liked the palm trees silhoutted in sunsets, the sunrises, the moonrises, the mountains on one side and beach on the other views, waking up at the ocean to drive an hour and a half to ski in the snow, the diversity of food and culture and people. But it's too difficiult to see the palm trees for the billboards pressuring me to consume everything in sight - electronics, cars, condos, food - constantly telling me what I do not have.

Where did I go? I live in Nashville, TN. It's beautiful. I live on acres of woods on a hill overlooking a river. I am 15 minutes from downtown, from an SEC university, several other universities and colleges, an NHL team, an NFL team (sorry), a hundred music clubs (music, not country), a hundred great places to eat, a steadily increasingly diverse population, and all surrounded by trees and rivers and hills and within 8 hours of 75% of the country's population. And friendly, how-can-I-help-you people.

go with your gut. be happy. Choose where to be and make it happen.

and to everyone else, please, don't forget to enjoy the sunsets, the moonrises, the vistas. And introduce yourself to a neighbor.

[BlondJane]

Culver City ? YUCK! I moved from Calif to Tx,, I have a 1800 sq ft home and a POOL! a very nice place to live,,,,,yeah Calif is nice but it has been ruined and continues its downward spiral! Who needs it ?! I can sleep at night!

[Green_guy]

I moved back to LA after living roughly half my life elsewhere, and to be honest, the only thing that keeps me sane is being able to pay a cheap rent to live up in the hills (thanks to my one good connection).

Much as I love southern California, LA as it is now is the least livable city I have lived in, running just behind Akron, Ohio. For those moving out, I recommend checking out midwestern university cities, such as Madison, Minneapolis, Ann Arbor. Yeah sure, you have to get used to a little snow. The payoff is affordable housing, often in walking distance to work, no traffic problems by LA standards, great culture, great schools, and it's safe. Getting the job there is the harder part.

Personally, I think the only thing that will cure the housing market here is a good earthquake, but hopefully that won't come to pass.

[eprobert]

Exactly. I live here because my job is here. Period. I am an LA native, too, so there is also that attachment.

This is home, for better or worse.

The fact that I can't buy a house here has no bearing on that fact - I'm not from Arkansas, or Pennsylvania, or Virginia or anywhere else. I don't like it when people from those places come here, so I'm not going to go there and do the same thing to them.

I agree that we should stop talking about this. Yes, middle-class Angelenos *SHOULD* move somewhere else.

However, we can't.

So let's worry about house prices HERE, and not anywhere else.

[The Leaver]

Although there are a great deal of things to do in Southern California...the cost of living, the constant crowds and traffic...take a toll and make it not worth it. Several examples: visiting Long Beach for a weekend and discovering that it's $12 to park anywhere, then find out once your inside the Aquarium of the Pacific that there are so many people jam-packed in there that you can't see any fish. And when you say excuse me...you realize that the words you are speaking is not the official language of most of the people there. Or...when a house the size of a shack sells for $750k that would sell for $80k in another state. Or...when you visit a place like Washington and realize that the locals are not being sarcastic or gay when they actually are nice to you and your girlfriend or strike up a conversation with you. I live here now but am looking to get the hell out. The traffic, the immigration problem will only get worse...not better. I can only imagine this place 5 or 10 years from now. I will be long gone by then!

[c-t-m]

I think I will just wait two years and buy the house listed at $750K for $475K.

The realtors don't care. All they care about is their percentage of the sales. I thik they are looking for someone who can't really afford it to buy, so in two years they will be first in line to sell the house again for another sales commission.

[x-man]

The bubble is deflating. Housing tracker's median asking price at the 75th percentile has gone from 999K in 2005 to 719K today. That's close to 20% already. Forget about median selling prices. If you believe in those I suggest you go and look up the difference between the median and the mean.

The frog is in the pot, the water is heating up, it will boil soon and the frog doesn't realize it because it's gradual. Culver City real estate agents are frogs.

See Japan. 20 years declining real estate. Tokyo MUCH tighter RE than SoCal. If it happened there, it can happen here. It is happening now.

Wait till you see the real estate stats that reflect the lending crunch, sometime in early Oct. The next leg down has begun. It will be much steeper than what we have seen so far.

If you have bought recently (2004 on), enjoy your house. You will not be able to get out what you owe for at least 15 years.

[Ragnar]

I read the LA times online because I like to learn about life elsewhere (I currently live in Madison, WI, and can afford A LOT more house than the one in which I currently live). I find the whole housing boom/fall very fascinating and learn a lot from the people posting here. I've always loved Southern California and hope to live there in the not-so-distant future, so I'm taking the initiative to gather data on the area. So far I can honestly say that quality of life goes far beyond a large home and all of the stuff that you can cram into it. I realize that I will have to sacrifice in the home size/ownership area in order to live in SoCal, but all of the other opportunities will more than make up for that. I've visited SoCal several times and really feel right at home there.

[DB]

The housing market woes are from people who control the mortgage interests. Why should interest rates be above 5%? You want to stabilize the housing market? Have the State be the lender at 5% and the State would make money, people would have a stable money market for housing loans with no rollercoaster ride of rates, people would have a better knowledge of what they could afford, and maybe, just maybe, some of you moaning renters would buy a house instead of the obvious envy you have toward people who do.

[Robin 'Roblimo' Miller]

I was born in L.A. in 1952, grew up there and in Orange -- and now live in Bradenton, Florida. I read the Times now and then to keep up on what's happening in the Ancestral Homeland -- not much of which is good, I'm afraid.

Now and then my wife asks if I want to move back. I tell her to look at housing prices. Then she realizes what I mean when I say, "Sure. I'd love to move back to the Los Angeles area, as long as I can turn the calendar back to 1973 before we pack."

The humidity here is higher, but the beaches are less crowded, and my $145,000 house (duplex, actually) is less than 2 miles from the nearest boat launch ramp.

I suppose it's all in what you want from life. I make my living on the Internet, which means I can live just about anyplace I like. And if I suddenly want to make a full-length movie, I don't need to be in "Hollywood" to do it. I can shoot right here with my 24p Sony HD video cam and edit it in Final Cut, same as I would there. :)

[#4]

I chose to live in California. You naysayers to do realize that the filp side to the people that bought recently are the MAJORITY of the population that well BEFORE the run-up? Though its difficult for people that are trying to buy a house now, the MAJORITY of californians own a house for which they have a good bit of equity despite the downturn. And besides that, we are more than happy to live here.

Don't forget, many people did make the right move in buying a house in the early '00s (and even in the 90s). I personally am still sitting on equity well over 6 digits, and have been able to leverage that by buying in other states, maybe even yours.

Listen out-of-staters, what you read about southern california in the LA times is oversensationalized anyways. You're supposed to read it, and be engrossed by it. I read this online, as well as my local paper. As much as you out-of-state folks would have us califonians travel around the country, keep in mind that the SoCal region is as complex and diverse a region as any. And besides, who needs to travel- we have all regions of the country and indeed all regions of the world coming here.

Have fun getting "mexican" food at Chi-chis....

[Mr. Johnson]

First and foremost, as a journalist, and this part is for Rich, LA times isn't considered competent as major international paper in the journalism world its supposed to be national but is read more regionally than anything . Its trying but you don't have people in dallas subscribing to la times like they do the NY times. Its mostly a west coast paper soo dude is kinda right in questioning your reading and i say kinda because you can read what you want but your comments are coming more peripheral than anything so it subtracts from your relativity. Secondly, hes right because sure, housing isn't as affordable traffic isn't great and the people are superficial but you can find affordable housing if you save and do it right, I just came from Boston and the traffic is no different in fact it was bad all day. La traffic is bad only in certain places at certain times, and another thing not everyone is superficial, you attract what you are so find a good group of friends and your ok--if "you" are ok. But here's the kicker. The weather is the best by far anywhere (San Diego is a lil better) plus there's a host of things to do. I'd rather live here in an ok home that cost me 500k in a nice neighborhood than to live in Idaho or anywhere else with bad weather and with nothing to do unless I search hard for it. But its subjective. And to the person that said Culver City is bad, I laugh. Its known for being quiet and family friendly. An isolated incident happens everywhere. The rapper Notorious Big was killed on wilshire in beverly hills. My friends car got broken into here in westwood and down the street my ex-coworker's car was stolen--also in westwood, which is a nice neighborhood for those of you that don't know. So dont' embarass yourself Culver city is nice and it isn't even surrounded by bad neighborhoods. sure there not beverly hills, which is less than 3 miles away but people see a neighborhood that's diverse and not the typical suburban neigborhood and it's "ghetto" all of a sudden--which usually carries serious elitists and racial overtones. So do your research and keep it real Los Angeles is still a city of dreams that's why so many people wanna move here. You can't argue with it. Only reason people leave is because they can't afford it, but they usually leave either wanting to come back or submitting to the reality although they don't want to. Im not saying its necessarily better than anywhere else but there are a lot of pluses--don't let your biases distort your objectivity. And by the way I'm from beloit wisconsin, lived in Ft. Worth for 8 years, also have lived in Rockford, Ill and Chicago Ill so Im making my comparison wisely. other cities have great things to offer but you can't knock l.a. like its crap. if you do ur being seriously emotional and bias.

[BackfromDC]

Just moved back to LA after 5 years in DC. Out of stater's are in denial. LA is paradise. Yeah I owned a big 4 level house and now a rent a small apartment but who cares (a big house does not equal QOL). People in LA are way more social, the food is amazing, the health care system is leaps and bounds ahead of DC/MD/VA area. I love that I can take my daughter for an evening walk around downtown pasadena on a nice warm summer night (and there are tons of other families doing the same) rather than stay indoors hiding from the mosquitos and humidty after 4 p.m.

If prices do fall, I'll buy but otherwise I'm content to rent and spend my money on more QOL, LA style.

[The Leavers]

I wrote an email and it wasnt even posted. That was a waste of time. Whatevers!

[Proud LA resident]

Enough with this "move out of CA" talk. As it's been said before, this shouldn't be the focus of this forum. Before you out-of-staters boast about your 4,000 sq. ft house in the middle of nowhere and tell us to get jobs elsewhere, think about all the benefits you reap from us hard-working Angelenos. Think about the film industry and the hundreds of people who put together blockbusters like "Transformers" and "Ratatouille" that I'm sure you suburbanites flocked to with your kids. Think about Disneyland and Universal Studios and Six Flags. Think about the celebrity photos in US Weekly that's hooked housewives all across the nation. Do you think we fly these employees in from Nevada or Arizona? No these are dedicated Angelenos who work here and live here because they are passionate about what they do. So to all the naysayers preaching for us to "get a job elsewhere", think about us next time you take your kids out on a Saturday afternoon or plan a family vacation.

We all make our decisions about what to do with our lives and there is no excuse to throw stones.

Btw, I was born here in LA and then moved to Las Vegas with my family because my parents were "sick of LA." I moved back on my own as an adult, with full knowledge of the housing situation, the smog and the traffic. Why did I move back? Because I love my job here. Half of the people in the US do not love their jobs.

[TR]

I have to agree with Ria. I am a SoCal native and the phoniness and superficial personalities/ attitudes is sickening. I should be used to it after 30 years, but I am not. At least New Yorkers are real!

[MyLessThanPrimeBeef]

I am not very rich and when I say the whole world is beautiful, I am being spiritual. So, I am happy here, in New Orleans or Mustique Island...mind you, I don't really have the means to do, especially the last one.

Now, you don't have to be spiritual to say that. You can just be filthy rich. Then you can be generous about a lot of other places. You don't have to defend living here in LA, or feel like you have to put down other places. You can say, Hey, I don't mind Paris, I don't mind Tahiti, or I don't mind Santa Fe/Taos.

[Vera]

Crime in Culver City? I can't believe someone points out the one murder by an outsider and says there is a spillover of crime. I've lived in Culver City for almost 14 years. I would take a walk at 2 am without any fear of crime.
That murder was the first one in years and I heard it was some sort of love triangle baloney.

The prices are absurd here - you can rent a million dollar home for about a third to half the cost of owning it though. Prime areas (walking distance to all the new restaurants, movie theaters etc) will probably hang in there for a while, but I'm seeing more examples of homes selling at a loss after agent fees or homes sitting on the market for months with no buyers. Nothing is So Cal is going to be immune to the crashing prices.

[firesale]

CULVER CITY is just another nice LA neighborhood
waiting for its price hosing. It's starting to break, now.
I've seen condos 22% off top listings.

SFH - 4150 Michael Avenue, 2 bdrm./1 bath,
1430 sq. ft., in Culver West Park, 90066,
sold on March 7th, 2008, at $772K.
That was down from $950K. Still
way to much for a 1940s box at $540. sq. ft.

Wait until the Option ARM resets start
to work their magic on the Culver comps.
That might take another year or so.

Thickheaded Culver residents will learn,
like all others, that unless they can hold
out for ten more years through at least
40% inflationary price erosion, they are
not going to see nominal price improvement.
Chances are they will see both 40% nominal
reduction AND 40% inflationary erosion.
That will set the clock back to at least 1999
in real dollars.

As they say, HOGS GET SLAUGHTERED!
(aka "Good homes, well-priced. Always sell.")