Homicide perspectives: Derrick Bell, constitutional law professor

With this feature, HR begins an occasional series seeking perspectives on homicide from various experts and observers.

First is Derrick Bell, visiting professor at New York University School of Law and author of "Faces at the  Bottom of the Well: The Permanence of Racism." Bell is one of America's most well-known thinkers on race. He was in Los Angeles last week for the 40th anniversary of the Western Center on Law and Poverty, an organization he once led.

Derrick Bell holds that issues involving race and poverty, homicide included, are difficult to combat because America has convinced itself that "if you work hard, you will make it, and if you don't, it's your fault," he said.

Click "Read on" below for the rest of Bell's comments, and his Q&A with the Homcide Report.

Bell said the notion of fault, which he considers flawed, makes it easier to abandon poor blacks to their troubles. It comforts whites with the notion of always being one step up--and so somehow buffered from the same forces of economic insecurity, he said.

"Racism is necessary to maintain a kind of stability in this system," he told the Western Center on Law and Poverty group in downtown Los Angeles on Friday. "That doesn't mean white people are evil.... It means that a lot of white people of lowly station feel they are not so low because they are the same color as the people above them."

Blaming personal failings and not the system also is seductive to blacks, he argues--and even to those who seek to combat poverty and racism. "In our society, the hard road is to take a stand against the system," he said. "It's easier to say, 'It's these people's fault ... so there is not sense in my knocking myself out.'"

But Bell also urges against this conclusion--discouraging as it may be to view the system as rigged. "The obligation is not to win," he said. "It's to recognize evil, and trying to do something about it."

Q&A with the Homicide Report:

HR: The black men I speak to while doing the Homicide Report are often very pessimistic. They talk of a feeling that they are being somehow eliminated. Sometimes they talk as if there is actually a conspiracy to eliminate them. Have black men always felt this way?

Bell: Yes, I think so. But in some ways they are worse off now. In the 1930s, for example, times were tough, but there were jobs that were seen as "n----- work," jobs just for black people. Now, in Los Angeles, Latinos have all those jobs. I was just at dinner here last night. All the waiters were Latino. There was one cook at the buffet table. I said to him, "I think you are the only African American here!" and he said, "Yes, they prefer Latinos. They think they have a better work ethic." He said he had told his friends to keep applying, but how long can they do that?

When my father came from Alabama, he worked in a steel mill, and that was considered a black job, a "n----- job." Those jobs now are gone. All the manufacturing jobs. They are gone for whites too, of course.

HR: What does the word racism mean to you now?

Bell: I try not to use the word. It's too general. Racism now is not like the Ku Klux Klan, and n---- and all that. It is the sense that whites, in any role in society, are presumptively entitled, whereas blacks have to prove it.

HR: When I said I wanted to come to last night's event and see you, Syd Whalley, executive director of the  Western Center for Law and Poverty executive, sounded taken aback. She said: "Homicide? I don't see the connection." Do you think there's a connection?

Bell: Oh yes! It is related to race and poverty. It is all part of this context. The frustration. The quick resort to violence.

HR: The Homicide Report discloses the race of homicide victims. Some have criticized this. Does it trouble you?

Bell: No. The truth is the truth.

HR: One of the most common explanations I hear for the prevalence of black-on-black homicide has to do with notions of personal responsibility and perverse decision-making--people just not making better choices. What do you think of this?

Bell: There is almost nothing you can say to it. It is such a comforting thought--the idea that it's their fault. It relieves us from responsibility, and it verifies long held beliefs. It keeps us from seeing the fragility of our own situation. But what's missing is the context. Why do you see this violence? Why is manhood determined by not taking slights? These questions are harder to answer.

HR: I just finished a story on black/Latino violence in Los Angeles. Some scholars concluded there is no clear trend, and said that the media had sensationalized the story. Why would that happen? What would be the story's appeal?

Bell: It's a comfort, isn't it. A lot of white folk are insecure--justly. They take reassurance in knowing that 'at least I'm not involved in that.'

(Above, Bell, in conversation with HR, and talking with the attendees of the Western Center for Law and Poverty's anniversary.)

Comments

[Mark]

Maybe the distinguished scholar could have commented on the dysfunctional and failed LAUSD. And then comment on the dismal state of LA City Govt.

Hes just another one of those 60's/70's "blame it on whitey" characters.

[victor]

thank you for your insight, ms. leovy, and your attention to those who die in violence in your columns. while it is mostly black and brown folk who are homicide victims we must remember that together we are the majority of this city and the vast majority of the poor. thanks especially for setting the record straight on the so called race war between blacks and latinos which is in fact a non story (it happens but RARELY). in fact im surprised the times allowed your critical perspective on this subject since this newspaper has done the most to sensationalize this disturbing news trend. finally, thank you for searching out professor bell, one of the greatest minds on race in this country, and asking for his perspective on race and death in l.a.

[Tarn Helm]

Will other perspectives be invited to respond, or is this blog just going to be another place where the L.A. Times yet again peddles the usual leftwing monologue filled with exhortations that we continue to implement failed "strategies" like "gun control," Headstart, and Section 8 housing?

These monotonous insinuations that great conspiratorial forces impose oppression from the top down are simply comical.

These images of near-omniscient comic book villains dreamed up by Bell and others like him are utterly laughable.

Only the readers' ignorance and/or willingness to suspend disbelief could cause them to swallow this unfounded twaddle.

[jc341]

what a joke.....whites feeling better about themselves, by keeping black people down with racism and economic discrimination (poverty) I guess whites can't feel too good after missing their chance to keep down the vietnamese, chinese, southeast indians, koreans, hispanics (to a smaller extent), arabs, and other assorted ethnic groups who have showed up in america (most without the benefit of language or culture) and made a go of it. when are apoligists like Bell going to get it? NOBODY BUYS INTO BLACKS BEING THE VICTIMS OF SOCIETY ANY MORE. blacks are victims of themselves and no amount of self serving nonsense like this will change that

[Nick]

Yes, it must be the whites fault. Look at all the other successful ethnic groups. Those Asians and Persians don't seem to be to held back. I believe that it's also telling that LA City government is mostly run by blacks and it is a dismal ineffective bureaucracy, same as LAUSD. This guy is peddling the same thinking that it is everyone else's fault. Keep wallowing in that thinking and the black community will never get anywhere. We'll be in the same place 30 years from now.

[Chris]

Unreal. What planet is this man on? He pushes the same BS stuff that poor blacks eat up. Stop whining and making excuses. It's not the white man's fault. Blacks can run around and kill each other but it's not there fault. Well whose fault is it?

You can't perform as good on a test? It's a racist test. You do crimes and go to jail? The system is racist. Everything falls back on screaming racism when you can't hack it or take responsibility. This guy should be an embarrassment to blacks everywhere.

Oprah is black. Bill Cosby is black. Colin Powell is black. Condi Rice is black. Why didn't the white man hold them back? I hope the LA Times will put someone with some common sense in the next article and not a guy stuck in the dreamworld of phony victimization by some unforeseen white man. Shame on you, Mr. Bell.

[mia]

I agree with him and i agree with the comments as well. Personally i think it all starts at home, dealing with the knowledge(or bs) put in the head of a child. Either the parent can tell the child that he/she can be whatever they want in life or the parent can tell them they'll always be held back by another race. I believe if u push your child towards success and make them strive to go as high as they can then a lot of people with the belief of this being the white mans world, will be proven wrong. I do agree that blacks are viewed differently but i believe its due to the way we are portrayed in the media. Some one is always killing someone, these schools out here are so gang infested, and the neighborhoods arent safe to walk in and sometimes too bad to even drive through. Oh and not to mention majority of the tv shows. Some are embarrassing and gives an impression that blacks are just loud and senseless.

Personally i think blacks just need to start stepping up. Make these neighborhoods a safe and decent place to live in, and if u cant just move out to somewhere that is safer. Do anything u can to provide your child with a better environment, so s/he can grow up successful and make something with their lives, so everyone can stop blaming someone else for the problems.

[DW]

Although the homicide report is something that I think everyone should read, and that the times should promote more, Ms. Leovy focuses way too much on race/ethnicity in this blog. I know, I know, the obvious rebuttal is that homicide rates are higher among blacks and latinos, but we are all affected by the fact that there is a high rate of violent crime in our city, regardless of what race we are. Focusing so much on race, in my opinion, marginalizes the issue - as though it is something that only blacks or latinos should be concerned about.

[Ariana]

Unfortunately, it's this kind of mentality that prevents people from getting ahead. Rather than setting out to prove yourself, you allow yourself to wallow in self-pity and blame everyone else for your shortcomings. If you feel that a certain group in society has a negative perspective of you based on your race, why wouldn't you do something to prove them wrong? Life is what you make of it; you can either let others make decisions for you and complain about getting the short end of the stick or you can take charge of your life and your destiny.

[A Mother]

Mark and Nick, you two sound so much alike. What LA City government are you two referring to that is run mostly by Blacks? I don't know about the make up of LAUSD, but it has been a mess for many years, so don't blame the new superintendent.

[mia]

I just dont get it. No offence to this man whatsoever but gosh that was a waste of breath. These hispanics out here...they came out here with the mentality that they gonna be somethin. They gon do all they can to make sure they successful. I see older hispanics motivating children and teenagers of their kind. They want to see them grow up and be somebody. Now on the other hand.... all i see is blacks neglecting their children. No one really motivates, and it seems that our race is gonna be wiped out too soon. While hes over there blaming him her an them he needs to be trying to help his people. Use that voice of yours to motivate! Show the unloved people that someone cares. Do something to make a difference, an improvement, because this blame on racism?? It gets us all nowhere too fast. Grow up!!

[LAN8TV]

To Chris: It absolutely is the white man's fault why we are where we are today. It was whites who until very recently sought to keep us out of better schools, it was whites who prevented us from becoming a significant part of the economy via segregation and racism, it was whites who developed the restrictive covenants to keep minorities out of certain neighborhoods, thus preventing decent families from buying homes, building equity, and taking advantage of the benefits of homeownership, and it was whites who routinely rounded up black men, took them away from their families and perpetrated public hangings to inflict terror into other blacks, and it was whites who used this terror to remind us that we were less than human. Keep in mind that this has happened within the last 50 years and continues (somewhat covertly) today. Your comparison of the average black family struggling to catch up for the 50+ years of institutional racism to Oprah, Cosby, Condi and the like, are ludicrous! By the way, I'm a college-educated black man who self-financed my entire education. Although I don't buy into the victim mentality that a lot of us use, I am so sick of white people telling me that racism doesn't exist or that we should just get over what happened. Would you ask the Jews to forget the Holocaust or the families of the victims of the 9-11 attacks to "just get over it"? Give me a break

[Mickey]

Let's not be intellectually dishonest. Let's not deny there's racism in the United States. To say there's no racism in the United States is like saying there's no holocaust by the Nazis.

Those who benefit from the current social system are doing everything in their power to keep the status quo.

It took a civil war to overthrow the Russian and the French monarchies, aristocrats and free the African slaves in the American south plantations, and nothing less can dislodge the entrenched American oligarchy and the plutocracy they administered.

[kevin]

LET ME SAY THIS I'M A BLACK MAN X-MARINE FOUGHT IN 2 WARS BEEN AROUND THE WORLD THIS COUNTRY WAS BASED ON RACE AND EVERY OTHER RACE (EXCEPT) BLACK HAS "WHITE" STATUS LOOK AT YOUR T.V. BLONDE HAIR BLUE EYES EVERY WHERE EVERY SHOW EVERY MOVIE EVEN CARTOONS HAS ANYTHING EVER CAME GOOD FROM AFRICA???? EVERYTHING FORM AFRICA HAS BEEN STOLEN DIAMONDS.GOLD MY PEOPLE,ANIMALS,TREES,PLANTS WHEN EVER YOU HERE OF ONE OF THE BLACK LEADERS THEY ALL INCLUDE BLACK AND BROWN I HAVE YET TO HEAR ONE (BROWN) PERSON STAND UP FOR BLACK OOPS THEY DON'T HAVE ANY ALL PEOPLE OF COLOR HAVE BEEN RIDING OUR BACKS FOR YEARS FOR JUSTICE IF IT WASN'T FOR OUR LEADERS AND PEOPLE DYING IN THE STREETS OF THE SOUTH NORTH AND WEST WE WOUNDN'T BE WHERE WE ARE TODAY PEOPLE STOP BLAMING EACH OTHER AND COME TOGETHER WHITE PEOPLE DOSEN'T CARE ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPING IN THE HOOD GET UP AND MOVE THE HELL OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LET THE GANGS HAVE IT !!!!!!!!!!I IF YOU HAVE TO WORK 20 JOBS TO MOVE DO IT A BAD PERSON WILL ALWAYS BE BAD .

[Chris]

To LAN8TV: This is almost too easy. Where do I start? Everyone can go to a "better" school? I'm going to guess that if the kids can't hack it at the "better" school, people like yourselves can always play the race card. Segregation is over. You need to wake up. No one is stopping you from being successful. Who didn't face discrimination? Do your homework and learn about the Irish, Italians, Chinese, and even Japanese. They were shunned, discriminated against, and couldn't live and work in certain areas. Why don't they think the world owes them something? If you have the money you can live wherever you want. Just ask Kobe, or Jay-Z, or Al Sharpton for that matter. All your comments are stuck in the past. More blacks have killed each other in the past 10 years then all that have been killed in lychings in the history of America. Do your homework sir. You are part of the problem. You say yourself that you are able to get through college on your own but you imply that other blacks just can't figure it out. I guess the white man was too busy holding them back but you could make it.
I never said racisim didn't exist. I just don't think it does to the extent that you think or the multi millionaires Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson do. Wake up.

[LAN8TV]

Chris, I never said that blacks couldn't live where there wanted to live or couldn't go to schools they wanted to. I live in Laguna Niguel (south OC)! I have wonderful friends and neighbors--most of whom are white. Maybe I shouldn't have said the white man is responsible, but the economic and social systems that the white man developed are responsible. My whole argument was that the recent history of institutional racism via housing discrimination, educational segregation, police brutality, and lack of economic opportunity (policies and systems set up by the white man) plays a significant part in the apathy and hopelessness in the black community. I agree with you, other ethnic minorities have faced discrimination, but were mainstreamed way quicker than blacks. I also don't recall any history of these ethnic groups having been hanged or shot to death because of their ancestry or skin color. As for the Oprahs, Cosbys, Condis, and Jayzs you mentioned, I guarantee you every one of them has a story about being mistreated because they happened to be black. Also, keep in mind that Barack Obama is the only presidential candidate who had to have additional Secret Service protection early in his campaign--check out the MSNBC website. Yeah, there are many problems in the black community, but to discount the history of shutting out a race of people from fully participating in American society for at least the past 150 years as ancient history and not relevant to our condition today I find very insulting! You're damn right my comments are stuck in the past; Whites, Arabs, Asians, Italians, Jews, and the Irish don't have to play catch-up for the past 150+ years of injustice! Yeah, some of us have 'made it', but until you've walked a mile in a black person's shoes, successful or not, I really resent you telling me that I need to wake up.

[Mickey]

"I also don't recall any history of these ethnic groups having been hanged or shot to death because of their ancestry or skin color. "

LAN8TV, the Chinese were also lynched in America.

On CSPAN a history professor was answering questions about her new book which documented the Chinese in America were lynched in the late 1800s and early 1900s in many parts of the country. In many cases, those Chinese who survived the killing spree were driven out of town and their houses and shops burned to the ground. Do a google search for more information.

[wedgydude]

Why are so many Latinos killing other Latinos and Blacks killing Blacks or Latinos killing Blacks or Blacks killing Latinos? I guess that's whitey's fault. Kids go to parties where gang members carry weapons and WHOA someone gets killed. Who's fault? Whitey. Not individual responsibility for the killer who pulled the trigger (guns don't know the color of skin). If you want to stop the killing....duh.....DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! For one, STOP READING THIS BLOG AND GET OUT ON THE STREET AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE! Teach a kid to read. Get involved in the community. Stop blaming other's for the plight of your neighborhood. TRY CLEANING UP YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND SETTING AN EXAMPLE FOR OTHERS! People change one person at a time. If you want people to care YOU HAVE TO CARE FIRST! I like the mother that said recently at the funeral of her black son, "If anyone can do anything to stop the death of another black man you need to do it now. Don't wait for someone else to do it. Get out and make a difference."
Love you all, The Dude

[Maria]

It is dishonest to say that because one or more Blacks have succeeded, the system is not inherently flawed and unfair. Please don't throw out examples of the "successful" black actors or otherwise, it is a cheap and selective response/argument.
Overall, I think that Bell’s argument is getting twisted and/or elided in these blog responses. My read of Bell’s argument is that he is not placing blame on whites for the issues involving blacks. Rather, Bell is pleading for less blame and fewer excuses. He is simply stating that racism still exists and that we should recognize it and “[try] to do something about it.”
I agree with Bell that racism is still prevalent in this country. And yes, it is not sanctioned by the government nor blatantly institutionalized as it was in other eras in the United States. However, the overspill form these eras is still present and affects millions of blacks. Race is an issue in education (read J. Kozol’s Savage Inequalities), in Hollywood (read Jack Shaeen’s Real Bad Arabs), in corporate America (read any number of texts), in our presidential elections (read the newspaper), in many aspects of American society. It exists, and Bell is simply asking for it to be acknowledged.

[Fightin' Pacifist]

The violence is too prevalent to be an "individual" choice as too many individuals are making the same wrong decision , to pick up and use a gun, knife, etc. and hurt others.

This fact , many different people making the same bad choices, indicates a problem with the system is at the root of the violence.Of course to the one committing the violence it always seems to be in their interest (therefore the right thing to do) to do wrong (what people who don't share his view see).

So why do so many see the wrong thing to do as the right thing for them?

Peer pressure (any social 'pressure' involving the perceived desires of others), education (that is all that they've learned in school, off TV/movies/radio/papers, and on the streets on their own or with their friends), and upbringing. These are the sources of their thoughts and therefore their actions.

Each person carries all these factors with them. The source of this violence must be sought there, for what else shapes people's hearts, minds and actions?

The problem as I see it is the need for peer structures other than bangin'. Killing to impress/protect friends, and/or their perceived "Honor".

First up legalize dope. Have the government distribute all forms of dope for free, upon proof of citizenship and registration. Pull the money out of the drug business and these bangers' won't have an income to fight over nor fronts to collect.

Of course politically you'll have to overcome the huge cop/prison lobby, who actually thrive on this violence.

Next up tax the hell out of all forms of ammo.
And for gods sake give young people decent places to learn all about dope and to otherwise have fun together.

This isn't about racism its about government policy. Government can choose to make life much much better for most Americans. Why it instead builds up huge military forces and keeps 25% of the world's prisoners (not counting Iraqi detainees) is for you guys to figure out. I can't, except as an money-for-nothing scheme for arms makers and cops.

[A fan of the representative from California = Jill]

This is more of the same blame the white folks for the black mans' decisions...its tired and its time to move on to modern data driven conclusions. Bottom line, a high percentage of black men make poor choices. Now, we need to ask WHY and answer that question before countless lives pass. The people demand a free society with open dialog.

[Tony]

The answers to all our problems stare each one of us in the face everyday. Everyone thinks as an individual. We have people who are telling you what they can do but no one is paying them attention because your not suppose to pay attention to them. Divide and conquer.

Who do you think runs the world? Where did our government find the money for this war but never seems to have it when it comes to social programs to help up lift people to be better citizens in society. Everyone is not able to lift themselves up by their boot straps. Most people do not know how to do it. The greatest country on earth.

Growing up I never saw a black man running anykind of bulldozer type of machinery. I never saw a black man with his own store running it as the owner. Everytime I applied for a job never did I see a black man as the interviewer. Most every police officer, fire fighter, and ambulance paramedic was a white man. I began to think that something was wrong with black people. I felt this way all the way up until my early twenties. My way of thinking changed once I landed on the shores of the bahamas. I saw black people running virtually everything on the islands. If I had grown up there living with the same comforts of America but without the effects of racism what kind of person and life would I have now.

[Kevin]

It sounds more dangerous in LA county than in Iraq. I do not believe 2,000 Americans die in one year in Iraq and there is a war going on. I would much rather face wild animals in Alaska than murderous people in LA.

[Jeff C]

Why do men commit more violent crime than women? Are there biological factors? Will women, one day, commit as much violent crime as men (by the time they have become equally powerful in society)? What effect does poverty have? Cyclical phenomena? These are interesting questions that, I think, must need be answered if we are to reduce crime levels.