Are Black vs. Brown race tensions driving homicide?

(Jesus, Martin Luther King Jr., and the Virgen de Guadalupe on the side of Lupita's Discount Market, 55th & Compton Ave., Florence)

Are Black-vs.-Brown Racial Tensions Driving Homicide in L.A.?

No. A few high-profile cases, including the suspected racially motivated killing of 14-year-old Cheryl Green in LAPD's Harbor Division, have fueled speculation of rising racial conflict in L.A. But among detectives and police officers who deal daily with homicides, the prevailing view is that the race problem--for now, anyway--remains marginal. "I don't think it's there," says Watts homicide Det. Chris Barling. Det. John Radtke, a South-Central homicide investigator, agrees. "We don't see it happening," he says. Statistics back them up.

Take the four most violent Los Angeles police precincts--Newton, 77th Street, Southwest and Southeast.

These racially mixed divisions cover South-Central Los Angeles and surrounding areas and consistently rank highest in homicides among the 19 LAPD precincts. Last year they accounted for nearly half of all the murders in the city.

But out of a total of 236 homicides in these four divisions last year, just 22 involved Latinos killing blacks, or blacks killing Latinos.

The vast majority--nearly 90%--involved suspects and victims of the same race. In a few other cases, the suspects are unknown, and could represent disparate races. But even in those--a mix of stray-bullet, gang- and narcotic-related killings--race is not believed to be a motive.

Detectives puzzled by racial homogeneity

In areas patrolled by the L.A. County Sheriff's Department, too, the pattern of killings on the street is “almost the opposite” of the picture lately highlighted in the media, sheriff's Cmdr. Pete Amico says.

The tilt is so far the other way that some homicide investigators say what actually perplexes them is how little racial crossover there is in killings.

Same-race murder predominates even where blacks and Latinos mix the most. In LAPD’s Southeast Division in Watts, for example, the population is at least 56% Latino and 40% black, according to U.S. Census numbers. But of 70 homicides reported there last year, only one was confirmed as black-on-Latino. No Latino-on-black killings occurred at all.

To be sure, tension between blacks and Latinos does exist in L.A., and a few murders result. For example, a string of racially motivated gang killings in Highland Park in the late 1990s went to trial in federal court last year.

And detectives think the December killing by Latino gang members of  Cheryl Green, who was black, was as purely race-driven as a crime can get. (Left, her mother holds her picture; Annie Wells/LAT). The subsequent killing of a witness in that case, and an unrelated racial beating case in Long Beach, has further inflamed public concern about racial violence. 

But even in LAPD’s Harbor Division, where Green was killed, racial murder is an aberration.

Of the 20 homicides in the Harbor City-area precinct last year, only one other is confirmed to have involved Latino suspects and a black victim. That case had to do with a drug deal, not race, said Det. Jim Perkins, supervisor of Harbor's homicide squad.

In two other cases the suspects are unknown and may be of different races. But in general, Perkins said, Harbor-area killings involve Latino gangs fighting other Latino gangs over territory. 

Where the trend is going is hard to gauge. Law enforcement officials throughout the county describe a fairly stable mix of Latino-vs.-Latino and black-vs.-black homicides over the years, punctuated by a few scattered skirmishes between gangs of different races, especially in border areas.

The sheriff’s Firestone area had one such flare-up two years ago. The dispute, purportedly over a drug deal, became so violent and so racially charged that black gangs began hunting Latinos indiscriminately and vice versa, said Sheriff’s Lt. Joe Hartshorne. At least two noncombatants--an older man and a fruit vendor--were killed simply because of race, he said.

More common, though, are black-vs.-Latino gang wars over traditional gang issues--such as territory or revenge, said Det. Kelle Baitx, of LAPD’s Newton Division. “It’s on gang lines. It’s territory, not a race thing,” he said.

Cross-racial homicide motives

Sometimes, black/Latino gang fights suggest as much about racial integration as they do about hostility.

Perkins, the Harbor detective, recalled two such conflicts in his division in recent years:

In one, a black and Latino gang had long agreed to share their drug territory, but a fight broke out over which gang could sell during the day and which at night. Retaliatory shootings played out for months.

In another, a local Latino gang that had welcomed black members was ordered by Mexican gang higher-ups to kick them out, and two people were killed, Perkins said.

Elsewhere, the smattering of black-vs.-Latino killings usually involve motives identical to those driving same-race killings.

In 77th Street Division, for example, a traditionally black Crip gang had welcomed a Latino into their midst, said Radtke, the 77th Street detective. The Latino Crip was later killed as the result of in-house gang argument.

In Newton Division, a black man killed a Latino neighbor in a dispute over loud music, and a Latino man killed a black acquaintance who had criticized his parenting style. There also have been recent black/Latino killings arising from narcotics deals, robberies, parties, insults and fights over women--all garden-variety motives common to same-race murders.

The fact that homicide seldom crosses racial lines here is not unique to L.A. Nationally, whites mostly kill whites, blacks mostly kill blacks, etc. It's been that way for a long time, both here and in the rest of the nation. “When you look at the trends, you don’t see tremendous change,” said Marianne Zawitz, statistician with the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics.

Concern is warranted

Still, there’s reason for concern,  Radtke says.

Racial strife is rampant in prisons, he says, and drug-market competition between Latino gangs and black gangs could someday come to a head.

Black gangs are shrinking as Latino ones grow, he says, and while a balance of power may be keeping the status quo in place for now, authorities should keep watch. “I’m actually glad there has been such a response to the Harbor case,” Radtke says. Gangs that provoke racial conflict “should have the full force of the government on them.”   

But other investigators are frustrated by what they call over-hyped stories of rising violence between races. “Crime here is race on race,” says Barling, the Watts detective. “The politicians always miss it.”

Comments

[Kevin Gilligan]

Interesting article.

Someone needs to tell the author that in L.A. they don't call them precincts (as they often do back east).

In LA they use the term "Division" or "Area" .

Other than that...very informative statistics. Important info to point out. Thank you for the analysis.

[John P]

Does anyone know why the Black P-Stone killer wasn't hit with a hate crime for intentionally shooting that Latina toddler in the head? Just curious.

By the way, I don't think there's a problem with the author's use of precinct - it's a generic term. Note she didn't capitalize it, whereas she did cap "division" when it followed a proper name such as 77th Street.

[ellen]

The common factor in many of these is sheer stupidity...I mean rival tagging crews killing each other? Well what were they doing out tagging? At least these are people who will no longer reproduce. But the rest of us must be protected from them and if they are under 18, their parents should be prosecuted.

I wonder if there had been decent classes for these kids in school that led to a job instead of fights over women, if maybe many of these incidents would not happen. You can only shove disconnected math and english classes down kids' throats for so long.

[Joshua V.]

I have been living in OC for the last 3 years and I go to school in L.A.
I am a 23 year old Latino male. I grew up in Central Texas, and while in High School I had Asian, Black, Latin, White all types of friends and we never had any racial problems. Many of my best friends and neighbor's are/ where African American. So coming here to LA & seeing these problems where a BIG SHOCK to me. I had never heard of Latins & Blacks having racial problems.

There's no major racial problems in the community its the gangs that ruin everything. & We as a community need to unite and get these scumbags out of our neighborhoods. Seriously people if you see gangsters doing graffiti, doing drug deals, any gang activity we need to run them out. I believe Mayor Villaraigosa is trying to fight, but he needs our help as a community. You guys need to write your congressman, the governor, get some money into these areas to lock these criminals up.

I also think that LA County should seriously pass a dress code in these schools to stop recruitment. Write your paper, TV stations. Take action.
The media also takes some blame. Before this article came out everyone thought there was a problem between the "Blacks & Latins" it can cause fear in the community and it can spark more racial tensions and more gang violence.

Many of these gang members are youngsters in High School and some even in Middle School. These are kids who think being in gangs is "cool". We as a community need to stop this mentality and stop the media that is Pro-Gangster life such as "pocoperolocos.fm" this is a show on Power 106 this show is syndicated to many radio stations throughout the country and this show is Glamorizing this gangster lifestyle. Our Youth listens to this junk and wants to be like this junk.

Visit their website and you will see that they promote the "Gangster Lifestyle" even click on "Cuetes animated drop" all you see is gang murder, graffiti, drinking, drugs, and "Cuete" means Gun in Spanish. In many parts of the US there is not really any gang problems Ive listened to this show and heard many Middle & High School kids from all over the country calling in wanting to be gangster. Ive wrote this show, to do something about sending out these Pro Gangster Messages, but they haven't responded and I guess they rather be making money then helping our communities.

I know that there might be some people that think this simple show could not affect our youth. But it does. I remember when I was 15-16 many gangster movies where coming out and after watching these films. I and almost all of my peers wanted to be like the characters in the film, The gangster life was glorified and we wanted to be like that, then later on our school started seeing kids go to jail, die and other.

I also remember many of my friends having nick names like the characters in these films. By the year 2000 it became unpopular to be in gangs in my school and community. Fortunately I grew out of this and many of my friends did too, but not everyone grows up.

[susie d. meekins]

HOW DO YOU RATE THE TOP 11 GANGS OUT OF ALL THE GANGS
IN LOS ANGELES ?

[Ruben Ball]

Gangs in Compton are the worst gangs in LA County. However, the youth realizes that if this racial tenion continues no one would be safe on the street. Day or night. I would like to see the stats for Compton 2005-2006.
Lets all have positive out look on this nationwide problem.

[J-HOOD]

ofcourse they`re going to down play the racial side of all these killings,race problems has always been dimissed as something other than what it is, for the simple fact they don`t want people to know how far it has gotten out of hand.the police need to stop it cause it`s going to come and when it does it`s going to be so big, the police are going to really be under the microscope. it`s better to come clean now and say,"it`s out of hand and we need help from the FEDS "than to let it keep going until there`s and all out racial war in the street of L.A

[Sho]

Murder is still a major issue...but at least in LA they are down significantly. In my hometown, Philadelphia is in the middle of a War. 73 dead in the 1st two months. Headed for 500+ in 2007. With 1.4 million people in Philly, Vs. 4 million in LA, the numbers are shocking. Maybe you all are headed in the right direction. My city doesn't have the gangs like LA. Just drug sets that shoot each other all day. Usually hitting innocent people, and not their intended targets. I know most of you could not care less about Philly, just say a prayer to help save these young black AMERICAN males, before an entire generation is wiped out! Thank You...

Nicholas "Sho" Sherwin

[AVZ]

I keep hearing about the 14 year old black girl who was killed by Latino gangsters, over and over in various media outlets. Somehow people have a very short memory, for it was only a few months ago that a 17 year old black gangster executed, at point-blank range, a 3 year old Latina, alone in her father's car, strapped in a baby chair. This was a chilling, deliberate act of executing a toddler, not to be confused with shooting into crowds and hitting the wrong person. This was a first in law enforcement in Los Angeles County, yet it remains curiously ignored, I wonder why?

Anyone from the media wish to answer this question?

[JUDITH G.]

NERY INTERESTING ARTICLE ....

ON MY POINT OF VIEW THE HOMICIDES "MURDERS" THAT HAPPEN IN LOS ANGELES DONT REALLY HAPPEN BECAUSE OF RACE . THEY HAPPEN BECAUSE OF GANG ACTIVITY THAT GOES ON AND ON EVERYDAY , EVERYWHERE AROUND THE UNITED STATES . GANGS HAVE RULES AND THEY DONT INCLUDE KILLING BLACKS OR MEXICANS EVERYTHING HAS TO DO WITH TERRITORY , IF SOMEONE FROM ONE GANG CROSSES TO THE OTHER GANGS TERRITORY THAT IS WHEN THE "WAR" AGAINST EACH OTHER BEGINS .
WELL THIS ARTICLE IS GOOD ......

[Sam]

i beileve that gang violence wont stop unless the government stops taking resources away from Latinos and blacks i think that government officals want us to fail so whites could control everything for ever, but so long as their is educated Latinos & Blacks we will try hard to make a better life for everyone

[Claudia]

The idea that parents should be prosecuted is ridiculous. Parents cannot control what their kids do 24/7. While I do believe that parents should be involved in their child's life ,we must also understand that many of these parents are working trying to provide for their children. If these children choose the "glamorized" gangster life and intentionally kill someone, then they themselves need to be prosecuted. If the law abiding parents are held responsible because their 15 year-old gunned someone down, what would happen to the other siblings? This approach would only crowd our already troubled foster care system. You do the crime, you do the time. I think it is safe to assume that these young teenage punks know it is wrong to take the life of another human being.

[Apple]

We need to put a stop to

Pocosperolocos.fm on Power 106

They are promoting nothing but gang violence and promoting the gang culture. They are hurting our kids and telling them that gangs are ok.
Lets put an end to crap that sends messages to our children that gangs are ok.

Petition everyone and lets get this off the air

[James]

Oh Claudia, the government is kissing the blacks and lations butts,, remember Affirmitive "blAction? Whites control nothing, jews do though. Quit blaming other people because your people can not take responsibility for their own actions, plenty of whites get poor education and still work for a living. I am tired of pointless rants like yours...Alleviating the responsibility you have for your actions. Poor disgusting.

[Concerned]

The fact of the matter is people are being killed daily and this must stop, no one should have to live in an environment where it feels like being a part of a shooting range on a daily basis. We need to care about human beings and NOT COLOR, we are all God's children and he loves each and everyone of us. WE MUST LEARN TO LOVE OURSELVES AND RESPECT LIFE. PARENTS MUST BE PARENTS AND NOT FRIENDS TO THEIR KIDS SO THEY CAN BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR BEHAVIOR. GANGS SHOULD NOT BE AN OPTION PERIOD.

[Ernest]

"race problems has always been dimissed as something other than what it is,"

Absolutely! It is the big elephant in the room that nobody talks about EXCEPT when it is to show how racist whites are. Then it is fair game.

[Felipe P]

I am more concerned about Latino-on-Latino crime than I am about Black-on-Latino crime. I am at risk of being robbed or threatened by fellow Latinos than I am by Blacks. Latino people are more a threat to themselves.
Too many Latino people have lost control of their children who then become the gangbangers of today. Yes the parents should somewhat be held responsible because they brought these children into the world.

[Violence doesn't solve anything...]

In Response to the comments:::
_______________________________
Does anyone know why the Black P-Stone killer wasn't hit with a hate crime for intentionally shooting that Latina toddler in the head? Just curious.

By the way, I don't think there's a problem with the author's use of precinct - it's a generic term. Note she didn't capitalize it, whereas she did cap "division" when it followed a proper name such as 77th Street.

Posted by: John P | March 02, 2007 at 03:14 PM
___________________________________________
I keep hearing about the 14 year old black girl who was killed by Latino gangsters, over and over in various media outlets. Somehow people have a very short memory, for it was only a few months ago that a 17 year old black gangster executed, at point-blank range, a 3 year old Latina, alone in her father's car, strapped in a baby chair. This was a chilling, deliberate act of executing a toddler, not to be confused with shooting into crowds and hitting the wrong person. This was a first in law enforcement in Los Angeles County, yet it remains curiously ignored, I wonder why?

Anyone from the media wish to answer this question?

Posted by: AVZ | March 09, 2007 at 09:15 AM
___________________________________________________

The killing of that Latina toddler was disgusting! It should have been seen as a hate crime in my opinion. Just like the killing of the 14 year old black girl should have been. Both incidents are stupid.
"Eye for an Eye" gang mentality is so ignorant. What and who does it help? Only causes more and more bloodshed. For every black the latino kills...the black goes to kill a latino...and for every latino the black kills...the latino goes to kill a black.

Two oppressed people at war...

its really really so sad because there are sweet Innocents on both sides who get hurt by all of the bloodshed.
Especially the beautiful sweet innocent children and babies on both sides...the grandmothers, the moms....why do they have to suffer? They did nothing to deserve all the violence :(

I hate it so much :(

[Watchful Latino]

How come you dont say what race is repsonsible when a Latino is murdered? How come you have these memorial articles when a Black is murdered, but not for Latinos?

Is there a bias against Latinos at the L.A. Times?

[Brother Swah]

I am from the South Bronx New York and presently reside in Los Angles. In the Bronx(which is predominantly Blacks and Puerto Ricans) we got along just fine. There was a fight or two between opposite ethnic groups but it wasn't racially motivated. When I moved here to LA in '99 I was immediately introduced to Black and Latino hatred towards each other. It didn't make sense to me that two impoverished groups would be fighting each other. Additionally it didn't make sense that free men were taking instructions from inmates in prison. Whenever I saw a Mexican I saw someone who immulated Black culture by: trying to Rap, dressing in a Hip-Hop fashion, accessorizing their cars like Blacks, or blasting Hip-Hop music out of their cars. If Mexicans hate Blacks why do they imitate them? I have yet to see Blacks performiing in a Mariachi band! Blacks have fought for a lot of the civil liberties that Mexicans are enjoying. I am aware that slaves fled to Mexico for freedom but the descendants of those slaves are treated like second class citizens there today. If Mexicans have a grievance with Blacks they need to relfect upon their economic situation and realize that if they want to go from the lower class to the upper class in America they have to get through the middle class first, and there you will find a good proportion of African-Americans waiting for them.

[mc]

The majority of people get along. It's not some corny fantasy, but the reality.

[Luis M. Duran]

In response to brother swah, mexicans don't accesorize their cars like anyone else. They started the low rider fade since the 50's. As far as dressing like blacks, youngsters of all races dress in this fashion. And as far as civil rights, Cesar Chavez was organizing the mexican community in the early 60's. And as far as the economic situation, there are plenty of upper class mexicans, some of the richest people in the world are from mexico.

[india]

what is new? gangs have never been a good thing.. never has it been said that black or latino gangs were good in any way. therefore why should that change.. the only people who can stop gang violence are those who are causing gang violence and thats a lot of people.. one could trace gang violence to rap artist or anyone but what these gangs do hurt everyone.. a person who would comit such a crime like shooting a child being 14 or 3 black or latina.. is sick.. it is ovious these crimes are hate crimes and these should be stopped soon.. the coruptness of this country is outrageus and everyone can halp that by being honest and not letting money or any kind of corruptness get to you.

[Brother Swah]

In response to Luis M. Duran,

"Low Ridering" is an ignorant way to fashion an automobile. Why scrap up the bottom of a car to draw attention to it. That's why ONLY Mexicans are riding in LOW RiIDERS, because the rest of the ethnic groups think it's pretty stupid. Our culture, BLACK CULTURE, is the only culture that transcends across all other cultures with the greatest impact and influence. Second of all, the majority of kids of all races dressing like us is because WE, BLACKS, as previously stated, influence all other cultures(musically, in speech, and in fashion). Kids of all races didn't start wearing baggy jeans and jersies until WE made it acceptable. Also, if some of the wealthiest people in the world are Mexican why don't they do more to help Mexicans in Mexico rather than having them embarass themselves by running to America for work and food? If your people won't help their own what do you expect America to do? Finally, Ceasar Chavez was inspired to fight based on OUR CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT. He did it in the 60's, and how coincidental, that happened to be the same time we(blacks) were fighting for OUR rights which YOU are enjoying. The only ones that are benefiting from what Ceasar Chavez did are Mexicans. Also, we were fighting for the rights of anybody who was oppressed, Mexicans were just fighting for themselves.

[each One teach ONE]

b. swah, you completely discredited anything intelligent or insightful you had to offer by responding the way you did to l. duran. you did not sound very "lets get along". the truth of the matter is that both cultures/communities, hispanic(not just mexicans) and blacks of all stripes(dominicans, haitians and southerners etc) are in this together. before brown v.board of education, mexicans sought to desegregate schools in california. this was in the 40's. before rosa parks, bayard rustin (a gay black man) refused to get off the bus. this too was in the 40's. history is long and we learn from eachother. our multiple realities (black, brown, male female, gay, stariaght) intertwine at various levels. we take from eachother. now turning to music, the same rythims in rap are the same as in jazz, mambo, salsa, reggae, these sounds exist due to the fusion created by mixing cultures. its takin a drum, which pretty much exists in most clutres, and rapping a beat. this is world wide, not attributed to one group only. besides the "hiphop scene was as much brown as black, but they didnt see this way, they were just a bunch of kids from the neighborhood having fun. thats what it is, my cousins grew up in a mostly black area, they got along just fine. the violence is tied to prison mentality and prisons, which is tied to gangs, but is also tied to the drug trade and the battle for geens. thats what is really happening. its nota black v. brown thing, its a low life thugs v. lowlife cholos thing. oh and by the way i see enough tricked out cars, both dropped and raised, in plenty of black communities, dont beleive me cruise shaw or watch a WC, snoop, dre video. you tell me they aint 3 wheeling and dipping. we need to be more about understanding our common histories and less about trying to defend idiotic thoughts like "The only ones that are benefiting from what Ceasar Chavez did are Mexicans. Also, we were fighting for the rights of anybody who was oppressed, Mexicans were just fighting for themselves" on afinal history note, japanese and filipino farmers were also instrumental in changing labor laws in the cali and the US, they did this along side mexicans. people forget that sign in cali also read, "dogs or filipinos allowed" learn your histories and teach your histories.

[Perry Mason]

Got some news for both of you guys. Those people of all races dressing in baggy jeans? Not my kids. Not my employees. Not the college graduates I know who will become productive citizens. This whole hip-hop "gangsta" culture is not spreading like you think it is, and it's not accepted by most of the folks who will pass on whether or not you get to move up in the world. Don't like it? Sorry. Don't agree? Fine, take your chances. But I think you are better off ditching the baggy jeans and silly hats and shirts, and maybe you should just pick up a book.

[Brother Swah]

I got news for you Perry Mason!!

You wrote:
Got some news for both of you guys. Those people of all races dressing in baggy jeans? Not my kids. Not my employees. Not the college graduates I know who will become productive citizens.

College graduates contribute by perpetuating these dresscodes both on campus and off. Only an idiot would assume that this dresscode is to be worn at a place of employment. Additionally, baggy jeans and caps are not a sign of intelligence but an expression of style, but only someone who lacks style would misconstrue this concept. I have more news for you, your kids will be, if they aren't already(c'mon admit) wearing this style as well. You can yell at them all you want, when dad's away they'll try to portray. There are a lot of people in the entertainment industry that dress in this fashion and are more successful than both you and I may ever be. Also, i got more news for you Perry......if you picked your head up from out of those "books" you wolud be faced with the reality that people want to dress comfortably not preppy. So pay attention and glance up at the world around you rather than exposing your lack of artist expression in this blog. Don't like what you're reading..TOUGH...don't like what people are wearing.....TO BAD! The youth are not going to yield to your BOWTIE Orville Reddenbaucher lecturing from you.

[Brenda]

If the Blacks and Latinos continue this Animal like activity "the White man" as they call them will no longer have to worry because their ignorance will kill them all off. WOW life's grand!!!!!!! I'm African American by the way. The most ridiculous thing that I have ever seen. And we wonder why the police are killing us they wont to go home to their families safely and with the stereo type that is being created amoungst ourselves has caused this negative mentallity for all Blacks and Latinos we have created this bad blood not "the White man". It is the innocent victoms that make me wont to rally and burn them all at the state (Capital Punishment).

[Jerry]

Dear Mayor Villariagosa, city council man Labonge and Garcetti:

The Los Angeles times has blogs on their web sites that I’m sure they would say is a free and open community board bridge differing communities. Well, I have posted twice on the blog concerning black verses Latino violence. The truth is it is not open to everyone. I have posted twice and have not seen my postings in their web sites. I have wondered if it were because of the bluntness of letters in speaking about black and Latinos race relations. Then I read many posting from black people which are totally insulting to Latinos. Latinos have become the new majority and thus have the same double standard the white community has had to suffer from the Los Angeles Times. Here is one posting among many I find offensive and if any should filtered out then why not one’s like this:

In response to Luis M. Duran,
"Low Ridering" is an ignorant way to fashion an automobile. Why scrap up the bottom of a car to draw attention to it. That's why ONLY Mexicans are riding in LOW RiIDERS, because the rest of the ethnic groups think it's pretty stupid. Our culture, BLACK CULTURE, is the only culture that transcends across all other cultures with the greatest impact and influence. Second of all, the majority of kids of all races dressing like us is because WE, BLACKS, as previously stated, influence all other cultures(musically, in speech, and in fashion). Kids of all races didn't start wearing baggy jeans and jersies until WE made it acceptable. Also, if some of the wealthiest people in the world are Mexican why don't they do more to help Mexicans in Mexico rather than having them embarass themselves by running to America for work and food? If your people won't help their own what do you expect America to do? Finally, Ceasar Chavez was inspired to fight based on OUR CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT. He did it in the 60's, and how coincidental, that happened to be the same time we(blacks) were fighting for OUR rights which YOU are enjoying. The only ones that are benefiting from what Ceasar Chavez did are Mexicans. Also, we were fighting for the rights of anybody who was oppressed, Mexicans were just fighting for themselves.
Posted by: Brother Swah | June 17, 2007 at 11:45 PM
This double standard against Latino voices that are contrary to the corporate/socialist elite must stop before race relations get worse via Los Angeles Times

Luis G. Martinez
1425 N. Mansfield Ave. Apt. 6
Hollywood, CA 90028

323-464-7698
lgm83@sbcglobal.net

[ZXE]

Boy! Some people just don't get it at all and they never will. The state of
heavy ignorance is the force that is driving these groups apart and the
division grows daily. But most don't even know why and that is the sad
part.

[Annonymous]

The War BEtween Mexicans and Blacks is Real and it wont stop because it seems as if Mexicans are taking over, they took over south cental, took over Compton, took over Watts and they are currently taking over Long Beach, and the Blacks are fighting for the territory, because to gangs territory means money and money, in turn, means power. Also, my neighbor is mexican and he says if he sees another Black with a Mexican girl..he is going to and i quote "smoke him". Now, what does this entail, i dont know? Maybe tension between the races? and until we talk about this issue via the media address it properly as it should, we will keep ignoring the elephant in the room, until it gets so huge and frustrated it will eventually trample all over us!!!!!!!

[Carol]

I don´t think anything is really changing. We haven´t learned to view each other as human beings, and not through our cultural differences. So what if someone wears baggy pants; I am sure they are capable of the same type of things we all work towards. I hope someday we learn to be centered on something else than our social constructed realities. Either way we´re all in it together whether we like it or not.

[BrotherSwahisanidiot]

Brother Swah,

As a black man myself, I must inform you of your imibicilic idiotic comments. Your lack of reason, respect, and most of all education is typical of my jealous african brothers.

First off, as taught in Black History, the baggy style of clothing that the hip hop culture fashons was first introduced by latinos. If you recall correctly, us brothers wore jumpsuits/tracksuits and flooded our pants. Take a look at the old school pictures of Raymond Washington/Tookie Williams. They never wore baggy "hip hop" clothes. The Chicanos, since the 50's have always worn the baggy clothing. It is the Chicano's who first fashioned hand signs, baggy clothes, and throught the penal system, were the first to bring bandanas into the scene.

And there are many brothers who drive lowrdiers as well. You are a fool for thinking other wise. Do your homework before yo keep making us black brothers look even badder.

[Jarobie Anderson]

Yea as they say just follow the money, this is not personal it is business they are fighting over drug territories. Solution recall Nafta so they can get some good factory jobs like are parents had.
http://www.blacknews4us.com/

[ej]

Yes for those who have been living under an umbrella and can't see through the fog that blurs your vision, there are rising tensions among black and brown largely due to neighborhood real estate and drug money that along with influence from the prison gang and higher ranking members everyone knows who they are so no names need to be mentioned and if you don't know, well it just means your on the outside looking in. Though some may not see it,believe it, or even realize it before long we can be looking at a possible war based on race out here. It's not the first time that this would have happened either in case some have forgotten:the wars in Venice CA. with the shorelines vs. s13,ccb,v13,ands m13. and in east l.a. aliso village pflats,tmc,ela13,csl's against the 1st.east coast crips. If these were'nt race related tell me what is because a lot of these gangs are enemies but when the order was given all beefs were put on the back burner to handle these situations.I lived in Aliso village at the time when all hell broke loose and had friends on both sides and the target was to get the eastcoasts out of the housing projects. So as of late with these brazen shootings and killings it's only safe to say that pray brace your self and hope for the best because the worse is yet to come,and it's only so much that the media can print but trust and know that there's 2 or 3 other crimes that take place for every one that you read or hear about through the media.

[GILBERT CORTEZ]

It's not a black and white world. Latinos demand respect just like everyone else. The "bitch slapping" blacks do to whites just don't cut it with latinos. This is quite evident in Los Angeles by the black and violence going on. Latinos don't and won't take crap from anybody. In fact Hollywood and Corporate America ignore latinos by not showing them in any projects. We 've got to realize that theres enough room for everbody in this world but the disrepect for their fellow man along with the lack of proper education are the problems for this black and brown violence. Latinos aren't going anywhere. They are the largest minority group in the U.S. with no stopping in population growth and no, we aren't all "illegal. Thank you for your time America.
Gilbert in Dallas, Texas

[JORDAN THOMAS]

we need to stop this stuff because im Black i got a Mexican girl so dose it matter no it don't so Blacks and Mexican have 2 unite forget all this stuff about mexican are better then blacks and blacks are better then mexicans thats just bullstuff we all the same just stop this stuff and unite and i want 2 tell the whole world i want this 2 be on the news on every t.v channel foreal people because to many people are dieing because of this. all im saying is that all the Blacks&Mexicans need to get together and be people and stop this racists stuff

[Frank]

This is not a racial issue; it is an ignorant issue and needs to be strategically solved with effective education…
Impact of hegemony:
Where ‘the minds of the dominated can be influenced in such a way that they accept dominance, and act in the interest of the dominant out of their own free will….’
Van Dijk (1993:255) (referencing Gramsci, 1971; Hall et al, 1977)

Frank
Arizona State University

[Frank]

This is not a racial issue; it is an ignorant issue and needs to be strategically solved with effective education…
Impact of hegemony:
Where ‘the minds of the dominated can be influenced in such a way that they accept dominance, and act in the interest of the dominant out of their own free will….’
Van Dijk (1993:255) (referencing Gramsci, 1971; Hall et al, 1977)

Frank
Arizona State University

[BLKINTHE70's]

Born and raised in Los Angeles I attended Elementery school during the mid thru late 70's and , I noticed a number of things. !st Latinos and Blacks dealt with the same issues of poverty. I am Black but had many Latino friends as well. We would go over each others homes to play. The parents of my Latino Friends were always very nice. Being open to understanding Latino culture, I realized that they are a close knit people and very family oriented. If you respect them, they would give you the world. However, they had to be defensive to some degree because many Latino families were not exactly welcomed when they moved into the Black communities. It was a shame because they had to fight for what they got just as Blacks had to fight for what they got from whites. Often times I would see the more dominant Black gangs give Mexican boys a hard time because they were Mexican. I think that a lot of the violence that is seen today between the two groups stems from Mexican boys not getting respect and being treated bad by Black gang members when the Black gangs dominated the streets of Los Angeles. When the numbers began to favor the Latino Gangs, they are now rebelling in a sense.
The Mexican Gangs during the seventies pretty much stayed to themselves as the Black Gangs were very dominant in Los Angeles. They would occasionally fight, then kiss and make up. Some Mexican Gangs even wore blue and red rags and battled among themselves.
Eventhough things were still bad back then, even the gangs had some values. Things are completely different now. These young gang bangers don't respect anything or any body. They are followers and not leaders, however, they will kill you at the drop of a hat. The Mexican gangs are highly organized in prison and it spills over into the streets, where as the Black gangs are too divided (crips and bloods).
Back in the day, the gang leaders got along with the different racial groups of gangs to some degree, atleast enough to handle business and show respect, but now it is a free for all in the streets.

I personally think that God is the only one that will end the violence, but parents should teach there kids to respect others, to be leaders and not followers, and to love all races of people.

[Matt]

I think you're leaving out alot of data. In Long Beach and Compton racially-motivated gang violence is far more common than in the City of LA. It's common knowledge in Long Beach that Latino gangs and Cambodian gangs are in a state of constant warfare, as are the Black gangs and Latino gangs in Compton. Look at the graffitti, it's obvious. Crip and Blood gang tagging no longer crosses out rival Crip and Blood sets but instead crosses out Chicano gangs. Vice versa with Chicano gang graffitti. Look at all the racial gang killings in Long Beach and Compton, like the killing of that Marine in his cousins backyard, or the 15 year old killed across from a police station in West Long Beach. I'll concede that racially-motivated gang killings are not leading to a huge spike in murder rates, but I would say that it's a problem. I have friends who are Black who do not go in certain areas because they fear racial violence from the Latino gangs in those areas, and I have friends who are Hispanic who do not go into certain areas because they fear violence from local Black gangs. It's sad to say that there are areas of LA county that members of certain racial groups are afraid to go to for fear of violence based on their race.

[BLKINTHE70's]

I have to agree with you. My assessment was purely based on how things use to be. It is a shame that things have gotten to the level that they are at now. Even as a 40 year old black man, that dresses business casual, I must still be on guard in certain areas and it is a shame.

[NOWAY]

The fact of the matter is, with all of the talk about black folks feeling the pinch from latinos creeping into their "territory", folks must honestly deal with latino racism as well, as it relates to black folks.

Many latinos, especially those of the mestizo variety, feel that black folks don't deserve anything they do have, even if they've earned it with their sweat, blood and tears, and that anything we do receive from this society, based on our severe come from behind sojourn in this country, should've gone to them, first and foremost, because 1) they are closer to white, than black folks, therefore higher on the racial totem pole; 2) black folks are inferior, and that anything black folks, or those folks of african descent, do achieve, is only achieved because of white folks "feeling sorry" for them, or "giving" them something they have not rightfully earned, even if the evidence is extremely to the contrary; and 3) if you're a latino of the mestizo, then the philosophy concerning black folks, is that black folks don't deserve to be in this country, asking for anything, chilling in a park, getting an education, getting media time, or any consideration, or largesse, seeing as how black folks really don't belong on this land, whatsoever, for their african blood disqualifies them.

Truth be told, this is what primarily fuels the rage of latinos of the mestizo variety against black folks. Oh sure, they may say that black folks obnoxious behavior, and trying to be badasses, is what's fueling the resentment mexicans have towards black folks. They may even appeal to this supposed past where black folks committed "pogroms" against the mexican population back in the day, which historical evidence suggests to be patently false. But all of these excuses, which may contain a modicum of truth, is essentially smokescreens to hide the insidious reasons concerning latinos of the mestizo variety's hatred against black folks, which is what I posted in the above.

Again, until those issues are honestly dealt with as well, and not just black folks xenophobia, and bad attitudes, you will have this situation grow exponentially worse.

And lastly, it was blacks who first popularized baggy clothing as a subcultural statement, during the 30's, and early 40's-NOT MEXICANS.

[trajjic]

I'm tired of this crap I'm moving to the ATL.

[Kim Smith]

I do believe that Black vs Brown has alot to do with homicides in our communities, hispanics are moving into areas that were mainly black areas for numerous of years and blacks feel their being pushed out of their ommunities. The role of gang has alot to do with it also. The f-13's don't like the the East Coast's, the 20's are Bloods and not like by the 18th st who represent the Blue Rag, and most definately all in the areas the avenues of 22nd -67th,North Figueroa, Glendale, Los Feliz, and surrounding areas do not like Blacks at all, there have been several deaths from 1998 - 2002 in the area that has been racially motivated, the Blacks were run out of the areas by the hispanics mainly gangs to claim this complete territory. It all boils down that neither want to live by each other, the lack of respect of each others, understanding of the hispanic culture and their language, employment issues such as they are givenmajority ofjobs and not afro americans. We are all minorities living in poverty or middle class citizens trying to survive and make it for the the sake of our families. Blacks feel as though the latin people are given more opportunities to buy up residental properties in these areas, opening up store fronts and not giving then chances to do so. Coming in without visa'a and the women having children here in our states knowing that they do not have to leave because of such is an causing an over crowding in the population. There are so many are numerous other reasons why Black vs brown has become a issue in our communities and it needs to be addressed in community meetings and puiblic forums and resolutions need to come from it.

[Juacamir]

So much speculating as to the cause of violence, not only in LA, but the rest of the world. All this had been predicted from a long time ago. "also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another." and "because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off". What does it all signify?
"this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come."
We are fast approaching the end. We need to pay attention to the news about this kingdom. That is the only answer for mankind to live in peace.

[Harry Craig Wilson]

I am running for city council dist 11. I am tired of going to funerals and candlelight vigils for 3 yr olds or teens killed for no reason.
what can I do if elected? I can put befor the city council Jamiel's Law, which says simply:" LAPD can and will and must turn over to ICE any known illegal alien gangster before he kills again." Any city council member can do this. The city council as a whole body can put Jamiel's Law or any proposal on the ballot in March of 09 or any ballot, so the voters can choose. Craig WilsonWestchester

[ALLAN]

YOU ACT LIKE BROWN VS BLACK IS NEW. IN ALL LATIN COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD IT IS THE BLACKS OF THE LATIN CULTURE WHIO ARE HELD DOWN AND DISCRIMMINATED AGAINST. CUBA IS ONE FINE EXAMPLE. LATIN WOMAN WONT SPEAK TO BLACK MEN BECAUSE THEY FEAR REPRISALS FROM LATIN MEN WHO STRESS THIS POINT. ASK A BLACK WOMAN HOW LATIN MEN SPEAK TO THEM. NO LATINS HAVE ALWAYS HATED BLACKS THEY JUST WERE OUT NUMBERED UNTIL THE LAST 15-20 YEARS. THE ONLY TIME LATINS BECOME AGGRESSIVE IS WHEN THEY OUT NUMBER BLACKS, IF THE NUMBERS ARE EQUAL THEY ARE SOME OF THE NICEST GUYS YOU WILL EVER MEET

[Biffster]

This Black Brown feud is silly. We are more alike than different. Divide and conquer goes all the way back to when the first whites arrived in the America's.

Blacks and Indians fought each other in the name of "Manifest Destiny" which was the greatest genocide committed against the Native Americans. When the dust settled the white man owned the land, blacks were still slaves and native Americans were relegated to an apartheid existence on reservations. Very shrewd wasn't it?

When the dust settles from this silly feud, Asians will own most of South Central! The turf they are fighting over is owned by the government!

When will you wake up people? It's shameful to be fighting for table scraps from someone else's table!

[oswaldo]

actually mexicans have no problem whit skin color, if you go to mexico you see white mexican, brown mexican and yes black mexicans. The only diference between mexicans and african american its the attitude. Kind of like crips and bloods same skin color but diferent values, In order for mexicans and african americans to unite we need to find some comon ground and in the future the diference should be forgoten.