New law allows concealed, loaded guns in national parks

In case you didn't have a chance to read the fine print to the bill just passed by Congress that put some controls on credit card companies, there is this: A rider allowing visitors to national parks to carry concealed, loaded guns and rifles.

It's a last-minute Bush administration policy, written by lobbyists for the National Rifle Assn., that was  pushed through the Interior Department as President George W. Bush was leaving office.

The rule, now a federal law, allows the carrying of concealed, loaded weapons in national parks and wildlife refuges in states where people are legally allowed to carry concealed arms. Proponents argued that the policy would give weapons owners more clear rules, and essentially allows guns in all but three of the nation's 391 parks.

The gun rule was criticized by a broad coalition of groups, including law enforcement, park rangers and former Park Service directors. Opponents cited statistics showing that parks are among the safest places in the country and said the presence of guns would create a law enforcement nightmare and might lead to poaching.

Bill Wade, Executive Council chair of the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees, said today:   "Legislators who voted for this amendment now have to live with the fact that they have, in fact, increased the risk to visitors and employees, as well as the risk to wildlife and some cultural resources. Moreover, they've just contributed to diminishing the specialness of this country's National Park System. We hope the American people register their disappointment in the actions of these legislators.”

 The previous rule, in place since the Reagan administration, allowed registered gun owners to bring non-concealed, unloaded weapons into parks.

-- Julie Cart

Comments

[Jennifer Wills]

Seriously - can one of the proponents of this explain why the previous rule "... in place since the Reagan administration, allowed registered gun owners to bring non-concealed, unloaded weapons into parks" was not enough?

I am curious.

[bitso]

Because it just brings the rules for national parks inline with the laws of the state where the park is located. Makes sense, actually. If you are a licensed to carry and drive through a park on part of your journey, no reason you should be made a criminal. If you live in a state where there are strict concealed carry laws, then don't worry, you can't carry in parks in that state. If you live in a state that does issue CCWs, then you are already walking around people with guns anyways,.

[ROB ME!;Because wearing an unloaded weapon is useless expensive jewelry]

Cary Stayner (born August 13, 1961) is an American serial killer currently on death row for the 1999 murders of four women in Mariposa County near Yosemite, California. Stayner's known victims were Carole Sund, her daughter Juli, Argentine exchange student Silvina Pelosso, and park employee Joie Armstrong.

[basementfrog]

Dear bitso,

you're a coward and a criminal if you carry a gun. Period.

[R90S]

Why is that, basementfrog?
Does the fact that you are using your first amendment rights mean that you are a liar and a libeler?

[Big_Ugly]

Dear Basementfrog;
What, exactly, is it that makes you believe that someone who carries a gun is a coward and a criminal?
1st - in order to be a criminal, one must breach existing lawful statutes. Please clarify EXACTLY what statutes (in what jurisdictions) are being breached by someone carrying a firearm? Do be specific lest you be guilty of slander and defamation and thus become one of those criminals towards whom you show such distain.
2nd - How, exactly, am I a coward? Remember the slander part? I carry a Spfld XD-45, .45cal semi-automatic pistol with a magazine capacity of 13 rounds. I carry this weapon in a shoulder rig with "one-up-the-pipe" and 13 in the mag. I also carry a spare magazine on the off-side. Am I a coward? I seriously doubt it. I am ex-Navy, I took an oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of These United States, I took another oath, before God, when I decided to carry my weapon - that oath REQUIRES that I be willing to place myself in harms way in defense of those unable to protect themselves. Please, in the future, wear a sign that tells us 'cowards and criminals' not to risk our lives in the off-chance that you may find yourself in a bad situation.

I ask you, who considers me to be a coward, would you be willing to put yourself between an innocent and an aggressor? Oh, yes, I'm sure you'll run, hide, and call 911, good for you! Be proud of yourself that you helped. Take note of the crime scene so you be helpful when the police arrive and need information for their report.

I challenge you to meet me, face to face, do discuss the finer points of civilized behavior and the limits of one's civic responsibilities Hell, I'll even buy the coffee.

My weapon has never done harm to another human being and I, for one, pray to God, daily, that the occasion NEVER occurs that would necessitate the drawing of my weapon, again - let alone the use of same. Yes, I have been in threatening situations and have drawn my weapon. I thank God that that was the end of the situation and that the probability of resistance was sufficient to cause the perpetrator to lose interest. No, I have, Thank God, not been forced to use my weapon in the face of aggression.

Please, again, remind me that you do not want the help of this 'coward and criminal' should your life, the lives of your family or friends ever be in jeopardy.

With All "Due" Respect .....

[Mark de Goz]

Dear Bistro,

I suggest you walk to the first cop on the street and tell him this revelation of yours.

[Mark de Goz]

Oops, I meant "Dear Basementfrog..." of course.

[Big_Ugly]

Jennifer,
First off, Why would anyone ever carry an 'unloaded' weapon? Especially open carry.
Some States do required registration for handguns - most do not for longarms. Wyoming is one of the best of the best as regards the "Right" (inherent, God-given, pre-existing before the Constitution - the "Right" of the People} to Keep and Bear Arms.
What part of "infringement" do you, and many others fail to comprehend. How do you feel about infringements on your Right of Free Speech, Choice of Religion, etc.? If you defend Right to Free Speech and not the Right to Self Protection - you are the worst kind of hypocrite.

One final question, if I may? How well does your automobile function without fuel in the tank? A firearm without ammunition makes a poor club and you risk marring the finish too.

[mike johnson]

Basement fog your a moron.People that have a c.w.p or c.p.l. have all gone through a background check and been fingerprinted.WE are the best possible class of people that any common sensed person would want to be the type to actually walk around with a pistol. We are not cowards. I feel you are the coward. You hide behind you misguided beliefs,and call us "cowards"
It's time you checked the stats on crime, and stoped being so closed minded.

Gun Owner With A Conceale Permit

[Paul McCarter]

You are a coward and a criminal if you allow my right of life to be taken away from me by barring me from my 2nd ammendment. I would rather be tried by a jury of 12 than carried by a group of 6.

Considering more bears have killed in national parks than guns should we outlaw bears?

Try eating some meat you've killed yourself- maybe then your brain will function and you will understand reason.

[Chris Miller]

I think basement frog was just put in his place.

[Stu Marks]

How silly to consistently ignore the danger that national park visitors are in from outlaws.

All who promote gun bans always ignore the rampant crime perpetrated upon the innocent. Duh!

What criminal walks around announcing that he's carrying a gun illegally and then abides by laws?

When seconds matter, police are only minutes away. What part of that do you not understand? Why is this still an issue? The argument is over. Guns save lives. Gun control means a nice tight pattern in center mass, not "Only outlaws get to carry guns."

[Medic627]

What is the point of this law? what is the point of being able to carry a loaded and concealed gun into a park. Theres absolutely no reason anyone needs to carry a loaded gun into a park. You goto a park for enjoyment, to take in the fresah air, to picnic, to relax and enjoy the day, throw a frisbee, bike, hike, some parks you can camp...so again why is this even an issue, what purpose does it serve..all this law allows is giving the ability to those who would use this law to wander in a national park, find a person jogging or with a family where they can use the gun and rob them. There is no positive purpose to this law. Can someone tell me something positive about this law?

thanks

[bitso]

basementfrog: Thanks for your comment and willingness to enter the debate. Obviously your intellect is greater than mine. I have no ammo to refute your well thought out, rational arguments.

GEEZ DUDE, ALL I DID WAS EXPLAIN THE IMPACT OF THE LAW.

[TheIcon]

darn republicans.... oh... wait... :D

[twilley]

For those who ride horses into National Parks/Forest etc even and especially in non-hunting season but have a hungry animal trying to get to our horses or pack animals, bit it rare, or the main reason for carrying in the back country now I can do so legally, especially when riding a horse or mule in the rare accidents breaks a leg one is toooooooo far away from a veterinary for any help and all they do on scene is put the animal down after hours of agony when I can do it my self. I would not like to, at times I might have had to chase a few snakes away in the early season as they cant "aim" as all they go after is heat not movement of sight. I hunt only with license and only in the proper season allowed.
Those who have CCW's are more for the laws than some of you not even knowing the first thing on a pistol if is an automatic, a rifle - single or rim-shot ammo, probably lost a few there. Let alone when carrying on the side of my horses saddle the shotgun or rifle with a scope.

As others saw when guns are outlaws only outlaws will have guns or ammo.
I agree properly rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6 ooh yeah that's with an American Flag, as a retired Marine! also means after service more so when retired to Preserve, Protect, and Defend the Constitution, 2nd Amendment is included.
When in the past traveling our great nation and visiting the historical sites, or camp in nature in a national park it was "risky" as I had weapons on military transfers, I am not the only ones who have done this in the past cops moving from one location to another VA Police, those going to the FBI Academy or CIA Training from a military post all have faced similar issues in the past.
Now days it is getting harder and harder to buy ammo for our weapons of choice or even other weapons owned. Even if it is at home or vehicle or on self depending on the state in or traveling to visit a friend or vacation in.

Put up the coward sign or wont defend another if needed so I wont defend YOU if we by chance are in the same National Park the day it takes 3-hours or longer with a search ad rescue etc for a Forest Ranger or County cop to get to you from a bad guy.

[Jim]

Gee, Medic627..

"what purpose does it serve..all this law allows is giving the ability to those who would use this law to wander in a national park, find a person jogging or with a family where they can use the gun and rob them. There is no positive purpose to this law. Can someone tell me something positive about this law?"

That wasn't too well thought out, was it?

A criminal who is armed wouldn't really be concerned whether it was an unlawful act to carry a concealed firearm into a park, would he..or she?

Positive? The second amendment to the constitution is being upheld! How much more positive an outlook do you need?

[Strongbow]

Given the fact that Mexican drug carterls are invading our national Parks and National forests for their drug activities, and they are armed. I think being able to meet them on something like equal terms is reasonable if one is unfortunate enough to ecounter one of these activities on a walk through the woods. I've had to stand off aggressors once on a canoe trip. They were planning on ripping off our canoe until they found themselves looking down the bore of a 45 automatic. We had to stand off a second group who were stalking our campsite on one other occasion. A rapist has just been convicted of murder for killing a female cyclist on the Silver Comet Trail here in Atlanta, and others have been robbed along the more isolated segments of the cycling path. Had the female cyclist had a gun she might still be alive to day. These predators know that law enforcement is hours away if coming at all.

[TrollHunter]

basementfrog = troll, in case no one noticed

[John]

I live in Missouri not far from St. Louis. I hold a concealed carry permit. What I find bizzarre is the fact that people would be opposed to me carrying my pistol in a National Park given that I'm perfectly within my state law when I carry it to Wal-Mart. Remember that the next time you're inspecting the mayonaise on isle five. I have no criminal record nor to intent to procure one. The SOLE purpose of my CCW permit is to allow me to protect myself and my family from would be criminals, bears, martians or any other entity that would do me harm. I wonder if the Grizzly Man guy would have opposed my CCW permit while he was being eaten by that bear? I wonder if YOU would oppose it in a dark alley just before being raped? Look, as a Missourian, I don't give a DAMN what you folks in Cali do or what laws you pass. If you prefer being a victim.... fine. Be one. But HOW DARE you impose your sense of "fluff bunny" right and wrong on Missouri. This is a states rights issue and the parks within Missouri's borders are subject to OUR laws, not yours!

[Big_Ugly]

Medic627
"What is the point of this law? what is the point of being able to carry a loaded and concealed gun into a park. Theres absolutely no reason anyone needs to carry a loaded gun into a park. You goto a park for enjoyment, to take in the fresah air, to picnic, to relax and enjoy the day, throw a frisbee, bike, hike, some parks you can camp...so again why is this even an issue, what purpose does it serve..all this law allows is giving the ability to those who would use this law to wander in a national park, find a person jogging or with a family where they can use the gun and rob them. There is no positive purpose to this law. Can someone tell me something positive about this law?"

You, yourself, point out the necessity for this law. You see, law-abiding people DO NOT break the law. They DO NOT carry where it is prohibited (usually). They DO NOT go around robbing, raping, murdering their fellow human beings. I usually enjoy myself in all that I do. Why can I not also provide for my own personal protection while so engaged?

What I have difficulty believing is that so many of you are so stupid to think that just because someone has a gun - they intend to do harm to everyone around them. Do you realize the most of your day spent in public, is spent alongside of those carrying weapons? None of them have attempted to harm you, have they?

It's like that idiot from the Brady Idiots who stated that a family on vacation should not "HAVE TO LOOK DOWN THE BARREL OF AN AK-47". Why would they be looking down the barrel of an AK-47? It's dangerous and stupid to look down the barrel of any firearm unless you (personally) have confirmed it's empty. The only possible scenario that would entail someone looking down the barrel of another persons rifle is if the party of the first part was committing a crime against the party of the second part. Simple! Don't do anything wrong and no one will point a gun at you. Unless, of course, the person pointing the gun is a criminal and a bad-guy and not paying any attention to existing laws anyway.

People with lawfully owned and carried firearms are much more responsible then you appear to be. We who carry DO NOT automatically assume that you are out to get us. Why are you so paranoid? Perhaps you should go see a doctor and get some more medication to qualm your fears.

Tell you what! How about if I offer to take you to the range, let you see, touch, shoot some of my guns in a safe training atmosphere. I'll even pay for all the ammo. Maybe you can rid yourself of your rabid fear of in-animate objects. Why do you fear guns so much? Do you fear automobiles? There are more auto related deaths that there are gun deaths. Do you fear doctors? More people die at the hands of doctors than those related to firearms. See? I can throw "statistics" too.

Back to your original point "What is the point of this law?"
The point is; The God-given right to provide for one's own protection predates and supercedes any law written by man. The Second Amendment simply re-affirms and promises to safe-guard that pre-existing, God-Given, inherent RIGHT which shall not be INFRINGED. Kinda like your right to speak your mind, no matter how wrong or un-informed you may be.

Clear it up any?

[Cris Lane]

Hooray for gun owners!!! Anti-gun legislators and fear-mongers seem always to conveniently overlook the fact that IN ORDER TO HAVE A CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT IN THE FIRST PLACE, one has to submit fingerprints, pass a criminal background check and be felony free. We are not talking about giving hardened criminals the right to carry loaded arms in parks to frighten nature-loving hikers! - THAT TYPE ALREADY DOES IT ANYWAY - and WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION! What this law does is make it legal for responsible gun owners with permits to do the same.

[Cameron Birk]

ANYONE WANTING TO POACH OR DO HARM TO RANGERS WOULD NOT ABIDE BY THE LAWS IN THE FIRST PLACE....THEY WOULD JUST BRING IN ILLEGAL GUNS AND DO THEIR ILLEGAL HUNTING AND KILLING. By allowing people who live by the laws to carry guns it protects the greater population or civilians. People who dont understand this concept are really dense and ignorant.

[MoJo]

"There exists a law, not written down anywhere, but inborn in our hearts; a law which comes to us not by training or custom or reading . . . a law which has come to us not from theory but from practice, not by instruction but by natural intuition. I refer to the law which lays it down that, if our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right."

- MARCUS TULLIUS CICERO, 44 BC