New law allows concealed, loaded guns in national parks

In case you didn't have a chance to read the fine print to the bill just passed by Congress that put some controls on credit card companies, there is this: A rider allowing visitors to national parks to carry concealed, loaded guns and rifles.

It's a last-minute Bush administration policy, written by lobbyists for the National Rifle Assn., that was  pushed through the Interior Department as President George W. Bush was leaving office.

The rule, now a federal law, allows the carrying of concealed, loaded weapons in national parks and wildlife refuges in states where people are legally allowed to carry concealed arms. Proponents argued that the policy would give weapons owners more clear rules, and essentially allows guns in all but three of the nation's 391 parks.

The gun rule was criticized by a broad coalition of groups, including law enforcement, park rangers and former Park Service directors. Opponents cited statistics showing that parks are among the safest places in the country and said the presence of guns would create a law enforcement nightmare and might lead to poaching.

Bill Wade, Executive Council chair of the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees, said today:   "Legislators who voted for this amendment now have to live with the fact that they have, in fact, increased the risk to visitors and employees, as well as the risk to wildlife and some cultural resources. Moreover, they've just contributed to diminishing the specialness of this country's National Park System. We hope the American people register their disappointment in the actions of these legislators.”

 The previous rule, in place since the Reagan administration, allowed registered gun owners to bring non-concealed, unloaded weapons into parks.

-- Julie Cart

Comments

[Mobil Keluarga Ideal Terbaik Indonesia]

Loaded guns will be allowed in Yellowstone, the Grand Canyon and other national parks under a new law that takes effect Monday

[Arizona Life Insurance]

Thank God for the Second Amendment.

[Frank Cannon]

As a registered Concealed-Carry Permit owner (who has 20 hours of instruction IN ADDITION to the required 8hr class) I would like to share reasons for this bill from my point of view. If attacked by an animal, 2 or 4 legged, it is ALWAYS preferable to have a loaded weapon at hand. An unloaded gun is a paperweight. Though I HOPE to never draw my gun to shoot, I realize I need to have it at all times or I won't have it when I need it. BTW, Chapter 10, Secs. 311, 312 & 313 US Code show that the National Guard & Reserve is the ORGANIZED Militia while all men 18-47 (with exceptions) are the UNORGANIZED Militia. Like our Forefathers we are all soldiers BY LAW! Sorry, VPC didn't tell you this!
Here in Kansas a beautiful young 20 year old girl named Jodi was abducted after work in her small hometown by a boy she knew. She was raped, killed & buried at a state fishing lake. I have 2 girls, 19 & 17. They shoot well, as I taught them. When they turn 21 I will buy them their first permit. The 19 year old uses a 4" .357 Magnum revolver & the 17 year old a Taurus .45ACP identical to the one I carry. Then there are 4 legged animals. If you visit Yellowstone Parks website they say to get bear repellant spray!
Sure if you are in a national park you should have bear spray , but a nice .44 Magnum is good insurance. Would you trust the lives of your kids to a spray can against a rabid bear? Crime is DOWN 35% in Shall-issue states, I'll bet it works the same way in National Parks.

[adolf hitler]

very nice

[Troy Perry]

This sounds like the same rhetoric and fear mongering that the ignorant people tried to use to keep states from enacting concealed carry laws in the first place. where are is all the blood in streets that was predicted? Where are all the shootouts? I read where innocent people protect themselves when law enforcement isn't around, and we will probably read about the same things when people start to carry in parks. When will ignorant people finally understand that to obtain a CHP you must have a very clean background and are therefor not the threat.

See you in parks, but now I will be legally armed.

Troy Perry
Concealed Carry Instructor
NRA Life Member
Voter

[tyler chapman]

hi I am 19 years old and have growen up with guns my hole life. I leagly bought a 45 cal. s&w revolver though a private seller and had to registered it with the county. cause you have to be 21 to leagly buy a pistol from a sports shop in michigan.also I cannot carry concealed till Im 21, I cant way to take my concealed class. I love shooting my pistol. and i think if youve never owned or shot a gun you are missing out,try it. "you really cant know that much about them if ya think were better of without them"

[Vik]

"New law allows concealed, loaded guns in national parks"
Who is this retard who came up and approved this misleading headline?
First of all, this does not mean that any person in the states can bring a loaded gun to a national park. Those who are legally authorized to carry concealed pistols do carry it loaded.
"word guns" should be referred as pistols,
AR-15s or Kalashnikovs... those are rifles and they arre ILLEGAL to be carried concealed, meaning in the vehicle cockpit, under a jacket etc.

To opponents of this law: there are dozens of people around you on the street at any given time who are authorized to carry a pistol (loaded or not) you are not suppose to see the gun by law. this people are law obeying citizens who are ready do defend their and your life from criminals. Just because you prefer not to use one of you freedoms does not mean you should give it up.
This whole article is so vague it should be called lies, shame on Los Angeles Times!
Personally I think that nowdays you can do more harm with words than with a gun, does this mean that we need to control free speech? No.

[Voice of Reason]

If you are capable of thinking for yourself and don’t just blindly believe the propaganda anti gun groups put out, go to http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/convrates.htm where you can read the crime conviction rates for Concealed Handgun License holders in Texas for yourself. Remember though that some of those that appear high for Concealed Handgun License holders are for laws that can ONLY be broken by Concealed Handgun License holders.

Now re-read the statement by Bill Wade. How much sense does it make?

[Bruce Richardson]

Jennifer, the original rule required only that firearms be rendered temporarily inoperable. You can find that under Title 36, Chapter I, Part 2, Section 2.4.
.
Arguably, removing the magazine and clearing the chamber would do that. A step further would be to separate the slide from the frame. There was never a requirement that a weapon not be concealed. Weapons could be in the trunk without being rendered inoperable.
.
My objection to this is that the weapon is rendered temporarily useless for self-defense. Even though my Glock, for example, could be rendered operable in less than 15 seconds, that is a very long time if attacked by a criminal who would ignore gun rules in any case. So you have honest citizens defenseless--criminals know that--and have done nothing that would prevent criminals from being armed.
.
What is the point of the rule anyway? I can only speak for Texas. With a concealed carry license, it is legal to carry a concealed sidearm almost anywhere in the state. It just has to remain concealed. That includes all of the state parks and even the Texas Capitol building. Why would folks who have had training and have passed a background check become a threat to the public upon entering a National Park?
.
It is sensible that this nonsensical rule is eliminated. BTW, the rule still applies until February 2010. Let's see if there is a surge is "gun violence" come February. I suspect that there won't be.

[Madison]

I could carry a gun around if I wanted to!! no one will stop me!! And I dont care if its not ALLOWED IN MY STATE!!!

[Kelley]

It was not God who made all men equal. It was Sam Colt!

[Proud CHL]

It's unfortunate that basement frog has been allowed to be a "troll" and post such a slanderous comment. It is also unfortunate that if a law suite were followed, he/she would never be found. Those that would cast defamation are most resembling themselves. I say again, he/she only posted as to gain notoriety and should be ignored.

Those of us that have chosen to carry for our own personal reasons know EXACTLY what and whom we wish to protect and what rights we will retain. The anti gun crowd will always cry foul when an "innocent" killer is put to death in the chair, and write stories for profit when a child goes missing or dies a miserable undeserved end. Most anti gunners also believe we should all be equal, (read.... not created equal......) regardless of the poor choices or lack of fortitude in one's actions for achievement.

I laugh at this "regard" of human existence daily. I ponder the actions of such men when the time comes, will they cower and wait helplessly by the phone, praying to God in the hour of need, waiting for someone with courage to protect them, or stand in a modified isosceles, firm grip, proper sight picture, poised to defend themselves? I see the first happening all too often.

I can picture quite a few individuals actually believing the Government is responsible for everything good in their lives. Those people also have no responsibility to themselves or others (especially to their children that they treat as just possessions and tax write offs). I have my own personal beliefs when it comes to the "dregs" of society, but it is not for this medium.

Anyway.... my 2A affirms my 1A. Just try to Freedom without it. Ask any SURVIVING Jew.

May God Still Bless America!!!! Happy Independence Day !!!!!

[Shortz Ziegler]

I agree with this rule and here is why. I visit Rocky Mountain National Park often and they just instituted a rule that requires every back country overnight user to carry a Bear proof food canister. If there is enough of a bear issue to require that in the whole park...

Then why can't I carry a handgun to protect my life if that bear comes after me or my wife while asleep or on the trail, which has happened! I would NOT brandish it and confront people with it, only Bear and Mountain Lions. It's pretty scary to be walking down the trail and find yourself between a mother and her cub and no way to defend yourself.

[Nathen Lourie]

Anyone who refuses to understand why a weapon would be needed in a wilderness area has obviously never experienced a life or death situation where a firearm was needed. I grew up in Western Oregon and never camped/hiked/fished/hunted without a weapon. Potentially dangerous wild animals, and criminals frequent these areas. I have never seen anyone poach an animal because I never associated with criminals, but to suggest because I can carry a loaded weapon that I am going to shoot a bear is a comment made out of either sheer stupidity or arrogance. The thought of carrying an unloaded weapon is also the most stupid thing I have ever heard. The only criminal I have seen with an unloaded weapon was on that TV show 'World's Stupidest Criminals".

I now live in Los Angeles and am constantly surrounded by people who have no concept of their second amendment rights nor any understanding of firearms and safety. Perhaps we should send all these 'city folk' out into the forest for a week with no way to protect themselves and see if that won't OPEN up their NARROW minds. Either that, or one night in Carver Park in the center of Compton....hehehehehehehe.

[The Law]

Amen!
Now I wont have to worry about those darn bears taking my picinic baskets :)

Afraid of poachers...hahaha yea like a concealed weapons permit was stopping them before. The media has lost all credibility - thank CNN for that.

[law officer]

I was unaware of this new law until last week. I as a retired Police Officer, have been permitted with proper I.D. to Carry concealed across state lines and on NPS property since 9-11 under Title 18 Chapter 44-926C. Last year, while visiting Fort Sumter, I was made to lock my weapon in my car, even after advising the Ranger of this. I was mad enough to spit, but having crossed the country to visit this site, I complied. Last week, I visited Fort Vancouver and upon checking with the Ranger, and expecting another ration of BS, I was advised that they knew all about the law, and it was OK for me to enter. It wasn't until later, that I found they here talking about this new law and not the one that concerned me. The new law at least kept me from being harassed by well meaning but untrained Rangers.

[utahexplorer]

The whole concept of "Legal concealed carry" is just that! Why would someone who has went through all the background checks start shooting wildlife, people and Park Rangers just because they passed an imaginary line on the earth. They won't act any different then they would anywhere else. You have more chance of crossing paths with a concealed carry person in the supermarket than in a National Park. Get over it. We have a Second Amenment right to "legal concealed carry" just as you have the right to drive your car if proprely registered and cars kill many more people than guns each year. Are we going to ban cars and doctors who kill even more people than guns each year. While cars and doctors do not generally kill on purpose it still happens.

[RAH]

This bill goes into law on 2/22/10. There is no reason why a person could carry under their state laws will act any different in a Nation Park than outside the National Park.

Besides the regulation that would have allowed CCW holders only allowed with loaded weapons is no longer valid. The anti gun Brady Group and NPCA found a judge to stop the rule after it was in effect for 2 months to stop it since it did not a have a required study. The law change is not a regulation but states that any person that can lawfully carry in their state can carry in NP. So whether the person has a permit or not depends on state law. Check you state law. Does it allow OC loaded or only CCW loaded and not allowed to carry at all without a permit

I do not know CA laws on carry but I do knwo in my state and this change will not allow residents in my states to carry any differently then as now. My state does not allow to carry without a permit and it is very difficult without political connections to get a permit. So very few other than police or rangers wil have a gun available in case they run into a murderer or rapist.

[FresnoCCWHolder]

Not worth a battle of wits with the unarmed. Those who choose to blind themselvs to reality choose to be a victim.

[ApplyLogic]

The reason people are scared of concealed permit holders is misinformation, ignorance, and down-right stupidity.

Neptune, you say you work in National Parks - then I am SURE you know about the rangers killed in National parks by gang bangers and drug addicts. I am sure you KNOW about Shenendoah State Park, and all the gang attacks on women - rapes and murders of innocent hikers. I am sure you know about the serial killers, rapists, muggers, murderers, etc.

So please, do not insult American intelligence by claiming you are in greater danger with National Parks allowing concealed weapons. This law only permits LEGAL concealed carry. As has been said before, CRIMINALS BREAK THE LAW, AND ARE CARRYING ANYWAY. This law simply allows the Good Guys the ability to protect themselves, and any unarmed folk they witness being harmed.

Basement Frog, little troll, I am sure you spread your message of ignorance on every board you come across. Cowards and Criminals often spread lies to fool others. And you don't even do it well.

Use your brains, people. An armed society is a polite society. Not because legal gun owners want to harm you. We don't. We simply stand between those who WOULD like to harm you, and all those they wish to harm.

Consider the Assault Weapons Ban, which Clinton signed in his presidency. Did it stop crime? Nope. Columbine, Virginia Tech, and other MAJOR killing sprees happened during the ban. The killers in those cases bought what they needed illegally. There were warning signs, homemade bombs, etc. A silly and unconstitutional ban protected NO ONE. In fact, it was so INEFFECTIVE on crime, that it when it came time to make it permanent, or let it expire, the AWB expired, due to lack of support.

Instead of burying your head in the sand, look around you. Criminals do not care about laws. THAT is what defines a CRIMINAL (not "gun ownership", as idiots and outright liars want you to believe). They wish to do you harm. Not because they are retaliating against you, but because they DON'T CARE. Violence met with bananas results in dead people with bananas. Plead for your life. Plead for your child's life, it won't matter - criminals will still harm you. Disarming law-abiding citizens makes the matter WORSE, not better.

Why does society seem to want to believe it's better (or more "socially acceptable") for a woman to be murdered, than for her to shoot her attacker? For a mother, or a father, to be unable to protect their young children from an intruder, intent upon harming them? For a Young woman shopping at Target in the MIDDLE OF THE DAY to be kidnapped at knife-point, driven to a remote area, and raped and murdered? Rather than to carry a concealed weapon, for her own DEFENSE, and shoot her would-be killer, instead? That happened not too long ago. Google is your friend. There are MANY such crimes, and yet those who CHOOSE ignorance just don't get it.

YOUR ignorance does not negate MY right to self-defense.

So go ahead, choose not to train in safe gun handling. Choose not to carry for your own protection, in a safe, legal, unassuming way.

And I promise not to defend you with MY gun, if you'd prefer. Because MAN, bullets are EXPENSIVE!

[Jimmy]

People that are coming into parks that plan to or would cause harm are the same people that would carry without permission anyways. This law simply allows people that are law abiding citizens and have went through the red tape to get a carry permit to carry in nationl parks. Criminals are going to carry anyway!

[Big_Ugly]

Medic627 - if you would be so kind as to point out, specifically, where all this anger is in my previous post? What you seem to have read into it is, certainly, not what I wrote.
I have re-read my post and, at least, I ddi not call you a fool, nor did I refer to you as an ass.
I did answer your question - though you seem not have appreciated the answer.

To quote your recent post "Not saying anything bad about a legit carrier"

Yes you did! Quoting, again, from your first post "all this law allows is giving the ability to those who would use this law to wander in a national park, find a person jogging or with a family where they can use the gun and rob them."

Further, you state, "but my point of my question is this, now that this law is passed, law enforcement is gonna be stopping anyone and everyone thery notice who is carrying to make sure they have a permit, right? Now, those who do not have a permit and who would normally look suspicious can more easily get around. See my point? "

Here, in Wyoming, open carry is un-restricted. A permit is required to carry concealed ... but, if the weapon is concealed, the LEOs would never 'notice' and would have no reason to question. Those who would "normally look suspicious" will still look suspicious and, thus, would still draw the attention of the LEOs. If you carry open, in the Sovereign State of Wyoming, law enforcement has no right nor reason to detain and question you for committing a fully lawful act. On the other hand, if one were to whip out one's weapon, wave it around and/or threaten someone else (without cause), then, Yes, law enforcement would have right and cause to question.
And, No! I do not see your 'point'.

One further point in closing - I have attempted to be cordial and logical in my responses to your query and comments. You, on the other hand, have resorted to name-calling and rude behavior. If you expect anyone to honour and repect your opinions - at least have the same courtesy towards the opinions of others.

[neptune10000]

Ted & pals,

Don't get me wrong, I like guns as much as the next fellow, remove values from the argument and look at the odds--if you walk around with firecrackers in your pockets, prolly you'll be OK and they won't blow up...but they could. If you didn't have the firecrackers in your pocket, they certainly won't blow because they are not there.

Now I work in a place where MORE people will be carrying weapons; this equates to a (slightly) higher chance of an accident happening. What I do involves a certain amount of risk. I don't need more risk, especially risk I can't control.

Parks are safe places. Leave your guns at home.

Neptune

[Medic627]

Good points Neptune, i certainly hope accidents do not happen, but being a paramedic and you being in Parks service, we know they happen alot everyday. Be safe out there bro.

[Anitbasementfrog]

PS I am a CWP holder for five states....in case anyone was wondering

[Anitbasementfrog]

Carrying a small hand gun while on trail has been my mode of operation for many years for a very practical reason: taking care of terminally injured small game and animals. In the course of bout 2000 or so off road miles I have had the luck (horror) of coming across badly injured animals on trail. The first was in Arizona back in 1990 and I found a terminally wounded white tail dear far from any chance of rescue. At the time I was not carrying a weapon of any kind. I sat with the female for three hours hoping someone would come along with a better idea than the clubbing to death picture I was going to have to do. With the sun setting and no help in sight I found a large branch and dispatched the doe in about 12 swings and I was swearing never never again...from that point forward I have always carried a 32 in my pack and to date have had to use it five more time, and the last time was a huge beaver up on Vermont in 2007 that had broken its back while felling a tree. Having the 32 to kill it quick was extremely useful, and painless for the animal. I know enough about animals to know when to rescue and when they are doomed, so all of you fold reading this who are about to flame me DON'T, I am very educated and caring when it comes to nature and the animals in it. I do not like having to make these decisions, but dammed if I am going to watch them suffer endless hours when I know nothing can be done!!! To my credit I have also saved many animals along the way, even packing out a fat little chipmunk I clipped and hurt, but was able to get it into my back pack and ride out with it...I would have done this for the beaver as well, but that animal must have weighed the better part of 60lbs, and was basically broken in half by tree!

I am very happy that I can carry now in parks and not think about the risk of being fined, or put in jail! Basementfrog I am neither a coward, nor a liar my friend!
___________________________________________________________
basementfrogs only intention was to get all of you internet toads fired up, he/she did a great job!

[Ted]

Neptune1000,

In response to your points,

1) I am not sure that an outhouse in the wilderness qualifies as a "federal building," (although I do sometimes find myself humming the national anthem while I answer the call of nature...weird).

2) Actually, people hunt bears with handguns. They can be of great help in a desperate situation...much better than angry words.

3) I know my state has restrictions on carrying weapons while drinking, and I assume others do too. Bottom line, this is why we are selective about who gets concealed carry permits, to try to weed out those with poor judgment.

4) An armed hiker might be outgunned if he comes across drug smugglers, meth cookers, human smugglers, etc. But at least he has a chance of defending himself. As for pulling the trigger, I hope I never have to, but if it comes down to defending myself and my family, you bet I will. I would defend you too, if I saw you being victimized.

5) I don't understand your fear of armed law-abiding citizens. I feel much safer living in a community that allows permitted concealed carry. I like that the good guys get to carry guns too (the bad guys carry whether it is legal or not). As Robert Heinlein said, "An armed society is a polite society."

[neptune10000]

A couple points from somone who works for the Park Service,

1) You still cannot carry a concealed weapon into a federal building like a visitor center or bathroom.

2) A pistol is likely not going to help you much against a bear or a cougar.

3) There are many Park areas, like Lake Mead, where drinking is a popular pastime. Take an law-abiding armed fellow, add a 12 pack of natty-light and a fight over a girl. Suddenly a fistfight turns into a murder, plus that weapon is available for anyone to access.

4) You will have no chance against drug smugglers or guards at a dope plantation. You will be outmanned, outgunned AND most importantly they will certainly have the meth-fueled conviction to pull the trigger. Will the average law-abiding armed Park visitor? Nope. They don't WANT to kill anyone.

5) I do not feel safer going to work now knowing that MORE people are armed. Accidents happen. The chance of making my wife a widow just increased. Thanks congress.

Adios

[medic627]

Amazing how a simple question gets hit with so much anger. Big_Ugly, I do own a 9mm, I keep it at home for home protection. I dont carry it unless I goto the range and do my usual practice
The fact that some of you reply like an angry little kid rather than an adult explaining their views proves SOME of you are not very mature.

Cris Lane, I understand all "law abiding" gun owners are finger printed and do all the crap they gotta do to get a gun. I appreciate your respons, but my point of my question is this, now that this law is passed, law enforcement is gonna be stopping anyone and everyone thery notice who is carrying to make sure they have a permit, right? Now, those who do not have a permit and who would normally look suspicious can more easily get around. See my point? Not saying anything bad about a legit carrier.

I appreciate the legit and good reasons there are to carry in parks, given by Strongbow and twilley, and even Cris who all actually answered my question with maturity, who also have me to believe those are good reasons
.
Everyone else, Big_Ugly, Jim, I understand you fools are angry for people infringing on your right, but some things are a bigger picture than yourselves, so when someone simply asks a question, dont bother responding unless your actually gonna answer it and not be an ass about it.

[MoJo]

"There exists a law, not written down anywhere, but inborn in our hearts; a law which comes to us not by training or custom or reading . . . a law which has come to us not from theory but from practice, not by instruction but by natural intuition. I refer to the law which lays it down that, if our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right."

- MARCUS TULLIUS CICERO, 44 BC

[Cameron Birk]

ANYONE WANTING TO POACH OR DO HARM TO RANGERS WOULD NOT ABIDE BY THE LAWS IN THE FIRST PLACE....THEY WOULD JUST BRING IN ILLEGAL GUNS AND DO THEIR ILLEGAL HUNTING AND KILLING. By allowing people who live by the laws to carry guns it protects the greater population or civilians. People who dont understand this concept are really dense and ignorant.

[Cris Lane]

Hooray for gun owners!!! Anti-gun legislators and fear-mongers seem always to conveniently overlook the fact that IN ORDER TO HAVE A CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT IN THE FIRST PLACE, one has to submit fingerprints, pass a criminal background check and be felony free. We are not talking about giving hardened criminals the right to carry loaded arms in parks to frighten nature-loving hikers! - THAT TYPE ALREADY DOES IT ANYWAY - and WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION! What this law does is make it legal for responsible gun owners with permits to do the same.

[Big_Ugly]

Medic627
"What is the point of this law? what is the point of being able to carry a loaded and concealed gun into a park. Theres absolutely no reason anyone needs to carry a loaded gun into a park. You goto a park for enjoyment, to take in the fresah air, to picnic, to relax and enjoy the day, throw a frisbee, bike, hike, some parks you can camp...so again why is this even an issue, what purpose does it serve..all this law allows is giving the ability to those who would use this law to wander in a national park, find a person jogging or with a family where they can use the gun and rob them. There is no positive purpose to this law. Can someone tell me something positive about this law?"

You, yourself, point out the necessity for this law. You see, law-abiding people DO NOT break the law. They DO NOT carry where it is prohibited (usually). They DO NOT go around robbing, raping, murdering their fellow human beings. I usually enjoy myself in all that I do. Why can I not also provide for my own personal protection while so engaged?

What I have difficulty believing is that so many of you are so stupid to think that just because someone has a gun - they intend to do harm to everyone around them. Do you realize the most of your day spent in public, is spent alongside of those carrying weapons? None of them have attempted to harm you, have they?

It's like that idiot from the Brady Idiots who stated that a family on vacation should not "HAVE TO LOOK DOWN THE BARREL OF AN AK-47". Why would they be looking down the barrel of an AK-47? It's dangerous and stupid to look down the barrel of any firearm unless you (personally) have confirmed it's empty. The only possible scenario that would entail someone looking down the barrel of another persons rifle is if the party of the first part was committing a crime against the party of the second part. Simple! Don't do anything wrong and no one will point a gun at you. Unless, of course, the person pointing the gun is a criminal and a bad-guy and not paying any attention to existing laws anyway.

People with lawfully owned and carried firearms are much more responsible then you appear to be. We who carry DO NOT automatically assume that you are out to get us. Why are you so paranoid? Perhaps you should go see a doctor and get some more medication to qualm your fears.

Tell you what! How about if I offer to take you to the range, let you see, touch, shoot some of my guns in a safe training atmosphere. I'll even pay for all the ammo. Maybe you can rid yourself of your rabid fear of in-animate objects. Why do you fear guns so much? Do you fear automobiles? There are more auto related deaths that there are gun deaths. Do you fear doctors? More people die at the hands of doctors than those related to firearms. See? I can throw "statistics" too.

Back to your original point "What is the point of this law?"
The point is; The God-given right to provide for one's own protection predates and supercedes any law written by man. The Second Amendment simply re-affirms and promises to safe-guard that pre-existing, God-Given, inherent RIGHT which shall not be INFRINGED. Kinda like your right to speak your mind, no matter how wrong or un-informed you may be.

Clear it up any?

[John]

I live in Missouri not far from St. Louis. I hold a concealed carry permit. What I find bizzarre is the fact that people would be opposed to me carrying my pistol in a National Park given that I'm perfectly within my state law when I carry it to Wal-Mart. Remember that the next time you're inspecting the mayonaise on isle five. I have no criminal record nor to intent to procure one. The SOLE purpose of my CCW permit is to allow me to protect myself and my family from would be criminals, bears, martians or any other entity that would do me harm. I wonder if the Grizzly Man guy would have opposed my CCW permit while he was being eaten by that bear? I wonder if YOU would oppose it in a dark alley just before being raped? Look, as a Missourian, I don't give a DAMN what you folks in Cali do or what laws you pass. If you prefer being a victim.... fine. Be one. But HOW DARE you impose your sense of "fluff bunny" right and wrong on Missouri. This is a states rights issue and the parks within Missouri's borders are subject to OUR laws, not yours!

[TrollHunter]

basementfrog = troll, in case no one noticed

[Strongbow]

Given the fact that Mexican drug carterls are invading our national Parks and National forests for their drug activities, and they are armed. I think being able to meet them on something like equal terms is reasonable if one is unfortunate enough to ecounter one of these activities on a walk through the woods. I've had to stand off aggressors once on a canoe trip. They were planning on ripping off our canoe until they found themselves looking down the bore of a 45 automatic. We had to stand off a second group who were stalking our campsite on one other occasion. A rapist has just been convicted of murder for killing a female cyclist on the Silver Comet Trail here in Atlanta, and others have been robbed along the more isolated segments of the cycling path. Had the female cyclist had a gun she might still be alive to day. These predators know that law enforcement is hours away if coming at all.

[Jim]

Gee, Medic627..

"what purpose does it serve..all this law allows is giving the ability to those who would use this law to wander in a national park, find a person jogging or with a family where they can use the gun and rob them. There is no positive purpose to this law. Can someone tell me something positive about this law?"

That wasn't too well thought out, was it?

A criminal who is armed wouldn't really be concerned whether it was an unlawful act to carry a concealed firearm into a park, would he..or she?

Positive? The second amendment to the constitution is being upheld! How much more positive an outlook do you need?

[twilley]

For those who ride horses into National Parks/Forest etc even and especially in non-hunting season but have a hungry animal trying to get to our horses or pack animals, bit it rare, or the main reason for carrying in the back country now I can do so legally, especially when riding a horse or mule in the rare accidents breaks a leg one is toooooooo far away from a veterinary for any help and all they do on scene is put the animal down after hours of agony when I can do it my self. I would not like to, at times I might have had to chase a few snakes away in the early season as they cant "aim" as all they go after is heat not movement of sight. I hunt only with license and only in the proper season allowed.
Those who have CCW's are more for the laws than some of you not even knowing the first thing on a pistol if is an automatic, a rifle - single or rim-shot ammo, probably lost a few there. Let alone when carrying on the side of my horses saddle the shotgun or rifle with a scope.

As others saw when guns are outlaws only outlaws will have guns or ammo.
I agree properly rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6 ooh yeah that's with an American Flag, as a retired Marine! also means after service more so when retired to Preserve, Protect, and Defend the Constitution, 2nd Amendment is included.
When in the past traveling our great nation and visiting the historical sites, or camp in nature in a national park it was "risky" as I had weapons on military transfers, I am not the only ones who have done this in the past cops moving from one location to another VA Police, those going to the FBI Academy or CIA Training from a military post all have faced similar issues in the past.
Now days it is getting harder and harder to buy ammo for our weapons of choice or even other weapons owned. Even if it is at home or vehicle or on self depending on the state in or traveling to visit a friend or vacation in.

Put up the coward sign or wont defend another if needed so I wont defend YOU if we by chance are in the same National Park the day it takes 3-hours or longer with a search ad rescue etc for a Forest Ranger or County cop to get to you from a bad guy.

[TheIcon]

darn republicans.... oh... wait... :D

[bitso]

basementfrog: Thanks for your comment and willingness to enter the debate. Obviously your intellect is greater than mine. I have no ammo to refute your well thought out, rational arguments.

GEEZ DUDE, ALL I DID WAS EXPLAIN THE IMPACT OF THE LAW.

[Medic627]

What is the point of this law? what is the point of being able to carry a loaded and concealed gun into a park. Theres absolutely no reason anyone needs to carry a loaded gun into a park. You goto a park for enjoyment, to take in the fresah air, to picnic, to relax and enjoy the day, throw a frisbee, bike, hike, some parks you can camp...so again why is this even an issue, what purpose does it serve..all this law allows is giving the ability to those who would use this law to wander in a national park, find a person jogging or with a family where they can use the gun and rob them. There is no positive purpose to this law. Can someone tell me something positive about this law?

thanks

[Stu Marks]

How silly to consistently ignore the danger that national park visitors are in from outlaws.

All who promote gun bans always ignore the rampant crime perpetrated upon the innocent. Duh!

What criminal walks around announcing that he's carrying a gun illegally and then abides by laws?

When seconds matter, police are only minutes away. What part of that do you not understand? Why is this still an issue? The argument is over. Guns save lives. Gun control means a nice tight pattern in center mass, not "Only outlaws get to carry guns."

[Chris Miller]

I think basement frog was just put in his place.

[Paul McCarter]

You are a coward and a criminal if you allow my right of life to be taken away from me by barring me from my 2nd ammendment. I would rather be tried by a jury of 12 than carried by a group of 6.

Considering more bears have killed in national parks than guns should we outlaw bears?

Try eating some meat you've killed yourself- maybe then your brain will function and you will understand reason.

[mike johnson]

Basement fog your a moron.People that have a c.w.p or c.p.l. have all gone through a background check and been fingerprinted.WE are the best possible class of people that any common sensed person would want to be the type to actually walk around with a pistol. We are not cowards. I feel you are the coward. You hide behind you misguided beliefs,and call us "cowards"
It's time you checked the stats on crime, and stoped being so closed minded.

Gun Owner With A Conceale Permit

[Big_Ugly]

Jennifer,
First off, Why would anyone ever carry an 'unloaded' weapon? Especially open carry.
Some States do required registration for handguns - most do not for longarms. Wyoming is one of the best of the best as regards the "Right" (inherent, God-given, pre-existing before the Constitution - the "Right" of the People} to Keep and Bear Arms.
What part of "infringement" do you, and many others fail to comprehend. How do you feel about infringements on your Right of Free Speech, Choice of Religion, etc.? If you defend Right to Free Speech and not the Right to Self Protection - you are the worst kind of hypocrite.

One final question, if I may? How well does your automobile function without fuel in the tank? A firearm without ammunition makes a poor club and you risk marring the finish too.

[Mark de Goz]

Oops, I meant "Dear Basementfrog..." of course.

[Mark de Goz]

Dear Bistro,

I suggest you walk to the first cop on the street and tell him this revelation of yours.

[Big_Ugly]

Dear Basementfrog;
What, exactly, is it that makes you believe that someone who carries a gun is a coward and a criminal?
1st - in order to be a criminal, one must breach existing lawful statutes. Please clarify EXACTLY what statutes (in what jurisdictions) are being breached by someone carrying a firearm? Do be specific lest you be guilty of slander and defamation and thus become one of those criminals towards whom you show such distain.
2nd - How, exactly, am I a coward? Remember the slander part? I carry a Spfld XD-45, .45cal semi-automatic pistol with a magazine capacity of 13 rounds. I carry this weapon in a shoulder rig with "one-up-the-pipe" and 13 in the mag. I also carry a spare magazine on the off-side. Am I a coward? I seriously doubt it. I am ex-Navy, I took an oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of These United States, I took another oath, before God, when I decided to carry my weapon - that oath REQUIRES that I be willing to place myself in harms way in defense of those unable to protect themselves. Please, in the future, wear a sign that tells us 'cowards and criminals' not to risk our lives in the off-chance that you may find yourself in a bad situation.

I ask you, who considers me to be a coward, would you be willing to put yourself between an innocent and an aggressor? Oh, yes, I'm sure you'll run, hide, and call 911, good for you! Be proud of yourself that you helped. Take note of the crime scene so you be helpful when the police arrive and need information for their report.

I challenge you to meet me, face to face, do discuss the finer points of civilized behavior and the limits of one's civic responsibilities Hell, I'll even buy the coffee.

My weapon has never done harm to another human being and I, for one, pray to God, daily, that the occasion NEVER occurs that would necessitate the drawing of my weapon, again - let alone the use of same. Yes, I have been in threatening situations and have drawn my weapon. I thank God that that was the end of the situation and that the probability of resistance was sufficient to cause the perpetrator to lose interest. No, I have, Thank God, not been forced to use my weapon in the face of aggression.

Please, again, remind me that you do not want the help of this 'coward and criminal' should your life, the lives of your family or friends ever be in jeopardy.

With All "Due" Respect .....

[R90S]

Why is that, basementfrog?
Does the fact that you are using your first amendment rights mean that you are a liar and a libeler?