What do you think of Don Mattingly's qualifications as Dodger manager?

Though nothing is official and things certainly can change, we've been told for a while now that Don Mattingly is bring groomed to replace Joe Torre as Dodger manager after next season.

Mattingly has never managed professionally. Does it bother you that: a) he doesn't have that experience, or b) he's getting fast-tracked in a way you would never see happen for many other candidates?

Or do you think his experience playing and coaching, along with his natural ability, are sufficient preparation to take over the Dodgers? Is continuity that important?

Though I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt where I can, I find myself a little uncomfortable with Mattingly's heir apparance. Why is he, more than anyone else, the guy? At a minimum I'd like to know more about what Mattingly's managerial approach would be, particularly in terms of strategy.

Again, I'm not saying Mattingly is the wrong choice — I don't know. Obviously, Dodger insiders have spent a lot more time with him than I have. If he does get the job, I just hope it's for the right reasons.

* * *

• 1988 World Series Game 1 starter Tim Belcher has been named pitching coach by Cleveland. Belcher has been a special assistant in the organization for eight years. His career ERA as a Dodger was 2.99 in 806 innings.
• Arizona picked up Brandon Webb's 2010 option, something I speculated about back in August.

Comments

[Joshua Fisher]

I'm not thrilled with it. I worry that he'll have the same veteran-favoring tendencies Torre's got. Play the best guys, and recognize that experience doesn't necessarily equal talent.

[Craig88USC]

Good points, Jon. Mattingly is about my 13th option to replace Torre. But, he could be the guy.

[Jack]

I dont think you really need any qualifications to be a baseball manager, other than basic math skills.

[Craig88USC]

When does Scioscia's contract end?

He can't manage in Anaheim forever.

[Craig88USC]

Jack, you should apply, my friend. ; )

[bhsportsguy]

I don't think Torre had those tendecities at all. He moved Juan Pierre out of the starting lineup when he got here, he tried Hu at shortstop when Furcal was out.

In 2009, he was able to play what I thought was his best 8 nearly every day.

The young vs. old issues were more in play in 2007 than 2008-09.

Also, Torre has been more liberal in his approach of using young guys in the pen. He's been protective of Kershaw.

On this area alone, I don' have any problem on how Torre has handled the players.

[Eric Stephen]

Scioscia's contract runs through 2018, but he can opt out after 2015.

[nsxtasy]

I guess there will be lots of trade news, now that the WS is over.

The Sox just traded Chris Getz and Josh Fields to the Royals in exchange for Mark Teahen. Teahen will play third and they'll move Beckham over to play second.

[artieboy]

Did Mike Scioscia have managerial experience when the Angels hired him?

[Craig88USC]

Darn, Artie! In five years, our core will be too old.

[nsxtasy]

Apparently the biggest question surrounding anyone's qualifications now is whether he's considered a Frank McCourt hire or a Jamie McCourt hire. :(

[Craig88USC]

Hmmm... Maybe not. ;)

[Eric Stephen]

Scioscia managed the Dukes in 1999 before getting the Angels' job in 2000.

[Koofax]

I actually don't have a problem with this. I think the transition will continue the much needed stability that the Torre crowd has brought to the Dodgers. With regard to experience, yes, I would prefer Mattingly get some seasoning in the minors. But, at the same time, I can give you a list of successful managers who did not start in the minors. Most recently, Joe Girardi.

[Phenomenal Smith]

Scioscia had managed in the Dodgers minor league system before the Angels hired him. Scioscia managed Albuquerque in 1999.

[artieboy]

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Scioscia fired by Dodger management?

If yes, was it the fox regime that did it?

[nsxtasy]

>> Did Mike Scioscia have managerial experience when the Angels hired him?

He had spent several years coaching in the Dodgers organization.

[blue22]

It should be noted that Mattingly was considered the front-runner for the Yankee job too, but he didn't get that one either. Maybe that was a different situation though.

He does seem to have Torre's confidence having been his bench coach for a number of years now, so maybe that's good enough for the Dodgers. But unless they name him manager a year before Torre steps down (like the Seahawks did with Mora Jr and Holmgren this past year), I'll assume they'll interview other candidates.

[jujibee]

I'm fine with giving Mattingly a shot, especially if it's going to be at a fraction of the 5mil Torre is making. In the same breath, I'm also fine giving someone like Hershiser a shot. Hindsight is 2020, but we won't know if Mattingly will be great or horrible until he is making decisions. I think he qualifies, as much as qalifications go, but there are several other people that do to. I think they might be forming this Torre/Mattingly tandem into Mattingly slowly taking control this year and having almost full control by the end of this year, so the folowing year won't differ a whole lot of manangerial philosphy.

[blue22]

Oops, he had been Torre's bench coach, but just the one year with the Yanks.

[68elcamino427]

Scioscia worked in the Dodgers minor leauges for a few years. He managed the AAA team too.

Mattingly is has no experience, so he will not command a big salary. The Dodgers might like that.
Plus Mattingly has a good PR image due to his association with Torre.
Is he qualified? Not really.

[Craig88USC]

Maybe Artie Moreno will give us Mickey Hatcher back...

Who may be a better fit than Don Mattingly. Who knows?

[Linkmeister]

I don't think Mattingly should be considered for the manager's position until he shaves off that soul patch.

[artieboy]

So Scioscia beats Mattingly with only one year of minor league experience before getting to manage a major league team. That's not much. What was probably more important for Scioscia's success was the stability that existed in upper management.

Its unbelievable that after all these years Mickey, Donald, and Goofy provided a better foundation for success than Ruppert, the sheriff, and now the estranged parking lot guy.

[356man]

Given the current state of "affairs" regarding Dodger ownership and management, choosing Don Mattingly over some other "more qualified" candidate rates way down on my list of club issues. Mike Scioscia did bring some experience and a lot of smarts to the Angels' organization, but he also had the advantage of not having Fox and now the McClowns as top bosses.

[WBB]

Remember the inflated egos that the best athletes in your high school had? Now think about the 750 top egos in the country and you've got major league baseball players (I know that's not a perfect analogy, as there are other sports and not all major league baseball players are from this country, so give me a pass). A manager has not just to make decisions about whom to play when and where, but also has to keep the 25 egomaniacs on his roster happy. He has also has to deal with difficult management (something Torre has extensive experience with and should serve well at the moment). I'm agnostic about Mattingly, about whom I simply don't know enough, but I think Torre is more than just a mathematician.

[Garrett]

To tell the truth, I think there are going to be even BIGGER issues for the Dodgers this coming year than whether Mattingly is qualified to be the next manager after Torre steps down. Like, WHO'S GOING TO OWN THE DODGERS?

Everything falls apart once the divorce proceedings heat up and both stability and cash-flow are undermined.

Who even knows whether the owner will be Frank McCourt in 2010?

But, granted F.M. still owns the team and can pay a manager, my sense is he'll waffle and waver and try for someone out of the Boston past before handing things over to Mattingly. By then, the relationship with Mattingly will have been ruined.

The McCourts are lousy owners, lousy for baseball, and Mattingly would be better off looking for work elsewhere.

[Craig88USC]

My personal favorites that hopefully sole owner Frank and Ned might consider:

Bobby Valentine
Kevin Kennedy
Brad Ausmus
Phenomenal Smith (Co-bench coaches Weisman and Stephen. Batting coach Hollywood Joe and new base-line box seats for us all)

[Craig88USC]

A 3-PEAT NL West title is my main Dodgers worry for 2010.

Are we good enough?

[kinbote]

I have to say I agree completely with Jon. I've never said it before, but it does bother me a bit that's DM's been appointed to heir apparent when the general public hasn't really been made privy to what his exact qualifications are. I know he's a name; I know he was in the mix when Girardi got hired; [I know he has a crazy wife]. But when are we going hear what's so great about him? Great how? How is he so great? What the heck is so great about him?

[kinbote]

Looks like someone's got a case of the Fridays. (Sorry for the typos in my last comment.)

[jtrichey]

The fact that somebody does not have minor or major league managing experience doesn't bother me. I don't think it has to be a prerequisite. Mattingly's qualifications specifically, I cannot answer. I can only trust the people in charge to deem him worthy or not.

[fordprefect]

How or where would PS store the reference materials?

How would Kennedy fit in all his mirrors?

-Anyway, the manager topic is probably further down the to do list than we all might like to think, considering certain recent events.

[Phenomenal Smith]

I need a reminder. Has Kevin Kennedy ever managed in the big leagues before?

I heard he might have, but I'm not sure. Does he ever bring it up?

[kinbote]

I think the manager issue is important, especially in light of DM's withdrawal of his name from consideration for the Nationals' job. I think a promise has been made to him and he'll be our next manager. All some of us want to know is why?

[Troy]

Ausmus would be my choice.

[tleonp]

Ahhh, managers....

Torre's just an average manager, better than some, worse than some. His strength is the ability to manage the clubhouse and the media (please call me when the LA Times beat writer's lips have finally been pried off Joe's posterior). This value is not inconsiderable.

His weakness is and always has been the management of a pitching staff. I personally believe he completely hosed up the Dodgers playoff pitching with his kneejerk, nonsensical decisions (not to say they wouldn't have lost anyway). It's a big factor in why his teams, for 35 years now, have generally slightly underperformed their talent level, with maybe a couple of exceptions. (by the way, I think this Dodger team of 2009 basically performed commensurate with their talent level, so kudos, I guess, to Joe).

Anyway, the Yankees got a good look at Mattingly as a coach over a period of time and made the conscious decision to NOT consider him to manage their jewelry case of a ballclub. However, Scioscia was well known in the Dodger organization and he got the axe as well, so who knows?

[nsxtasy]

Yup, the manager slot for 2011 is not something to worry about right now. We have plenty to be decided for 2010, and we'll have another whole season of results to take into account before making decisions for 2011.

If and when the time comes to determine a new manager, I would hope that Tim Wallach gets consideration. He's been doing a fine job for us managing in Albuquerque, and has an extensive coaching and playing background. Not that it matters for managing, but did you know that he has more home runs and almost as many hits as Mattingly? And that he led the league in doubles almost as many seasons as Mattingly did (2 vs 3)?

[nsxtasy]

>> I don't think Mattingly should be considered for the manager's position until he shaves off that soul patch.

He'll shave it just as soon as Manny cuts his dreadlocks. :)

[kinbote]

I think we should hire someone with a neck tattoo.

[blue22]

The Yankees hired Girardi over Mattingly, who was one season removed from being the NL Manager of the Year and had strong Yankee ties. I wouldn't say that was an obvious vote of no confidence in Mattingly, rather just that they hired someone they felt was a better fit.

And I'd rather them take a chance on Mattingly than hire some other "professional manager" that seem to always get the vacant jobs (Jim Riggleman, anyone?).

[underdog]

I've actually been okay with the Mattingly heir apparent-cy for awhile, but I'm not exactly sure. Is it because I always liked him as a player? Not a good enough reason. Is it because the players seem to like him and he's seemed bright enough when talking about specifics (re hitting and players). Okay, that's a better reason, but you could say that about a lot of guys. I like the idea of some stability in transition so that would be a plus, too. I'd rather give him a chance than some retread like Clint Hurdle God forbid. Still, even though I haven't worried about this idea much, I think Jon asks the right questions here.

And I have been impressed with what I've seen and heard of Brad Ausmus and think he'll be a manager some day. But of course managing one meaningless game at the end of the season isn't necessarily the fast track.

(And I really don't like Bobby V or Kevin Kennedy as Dodger managers -- sorry, Craig.)

[artieboy]

Kevin Kennedy managed the Red Sox. He has an excellent baseball mind. His analysis on the Fox sports pre/post game shows was the only reason worth watching that show.

I don't understand why people are so enamored with Bobby Valentine? Every time there is a discussion about a new Dodger manager his name always comes up but he never gets hired.

[kinbote]

I seem to recall that when Grady Little was hired, he got the job over Terry Collins and one other guy. Anyone remember who that was? It wasn't Hershiser I don't think.

[Casey]

The best thing Mattingly has going for him is that there would be continuity from the Torre administration. This is something the Dodgers haven't really seen since Davey Johnson came into the picture, which, coincidentally, is about the time that the wheels started coming off of this once-stable franchise.

Other than that, he's an unknown quantity. The Yankees didn't want him running their club, and they just need a monkey in charge--read into that what you will.

I hope Tim Wallach gets a shake.

[Tom J.]

I would not want Mattingly's first ever manager position to be in the majors for the Dodgers. While it isn't New York or Boston, LA has it's moments.

Were I in charge, I would to get Torre to extend one more year, and have Mattingly manage in the minors for two years. If that works, then Torre retires gracefully and Mattingly is promoted smoothly. If it doesn't, then there is an opportunity to find another path.

Regarding Scioscia .. I wasn't under the impression that he was fired by the Dodgers. If memory serves, he was working in the Dodger minor league system and was considered for the manager job when Davey Johnson was hired. When the Dodgers hired Johnson, Scioscia looked elsewhere. Seems to me the Angels made a better decision in '99 ...

[Jon Weisman]

It's a bit frustrating to write about a topic and have it declared not worth discussing because it's not the most important issue on the table right now.

[Linkmeister]

Jon: "It's a bit frustrating to write about a topic and have it declared not worth discussing because it's not the most important issue on the table right now."

Hey, you've published a book. Pitch one about a different topic for your next one and see what your reception is! ;)

[AENewman]

Mattingly is fine with me, you won't know until you try.

Scioscia has his detractors as well as his supporters...I recall him being accused of overmanaging in the 2008 playoffs.

Tracy didn't have experience as I recall when he took our job. He also has his detractors, but we went to the playoffs with him and even won a game which back then was a considerable achievement. And I think he did ok with the Rockies this year.

If Mattingly relates well to others and gets them to play nicely in the sandbox, he'll be fine. I don't think his wife is an issue, unless he remarries her?

[regfairfield]

Joe Torre was smart enough to convince the world that a guy sitting around chewing gum is more important to winning games than guys make 400 million a year.

Bobby Valentine honestly thought he could disguise himself with a pair of Groucho Marx glasses.

I know who I want managing my team.

[El Lay Dave]

Much like Charles Steinberg's staff getting the axe, the Yankees weren't going to hire Joe Torre's guy (Don Mattingly) right on the heels of making Torre an offer that was designed for him to refuse. I don't think they picked Joe Girardi over Mattingly; they merely interviewed Mattingly as a PR move.

If Mattingly is going to be the next Dodger manager, I'd sure prefer that he get some managing experience first. Are all the Dodger minor-league management jobs spoken for? Maybe let Mattingly and Wallach trade jobs for 2010?

[AENewman]

Jon, anything to do with the Dodgers isn't important right now in the scheme of things, spectator sports is just a nice release.

[Horace Andy]

I think continuity as an organizational principle is a good one. I know nothing about how Mattingly would manage, and neither do most people, but those in a position to know seem to think he's at least good enough to be considered for the job. Combine the continuity factor and I think it's a low-risk idea to have him carry on when Torre retires. I also think it could be much worse, even with the names floated in this thread.

One question for Jon, what would be an example of being hired for the wrong reasons?

[Chunkdog]

Kennedy also managed the Rangers in 1993, replacing the fired Bobby Valentine.

He sounds good on TV, but then so do Matt Millen, Kevin McHale, Herman Edwards, Mike Fratello, Doug Collins, Buck Showalter and countless other guys who continue to land on their feet in broadcasting.

Considering the Dodger possible financial issues, after Torre retires, his successor could be Lou Brown from Major League.

[El Lay Dave]

Jim Tracy was a minor-league manager for seven seasons, which is certainly experience managing professionally.

[El Lay Dave]

Link for Jim Tracy managerial information:
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/managers/238.shtml

Kevin Kennedy hasn't managed a team anywhere for thirteen seasons. There's probably good reasons for that.

[El Lay Dave]

what would be an example of being hired for the wrong reasons?

Posted by: Horace Andy | November 06, 2009 at 12:32 PM

Being hired because you're the wife of the owner? ;)

[blue22]

Is Tim Wallach more qualified than Don Mattingly?

Both have been hitting instructors at the ML-level.

Mattingly has one season as a bench coach for the Yankees.

Wallach has one season as a AAA manager.

Why is being a minor-league manager necessarily better experience than being a bench coach for a team like the Yankees?

[Phenomenal Smith]

So is Joe Girardi actually a good manager? Was he really that good when he managed the Marlins?

Is Girardi going to fall under the Phil Jackson/Joe Torre shadow of just being considered a good manager/coach because of his players?

[artieboy]

"Regarding Scioscia .. I wasn't under the impression that he was fired by the Dodgers. If memory serves, he was working in the Dodger minor league system and was considered for the manager job when Davey Johnson was hired. "

If my memory serves me, Scioscia's firing was published as the last footnote of a post game report handed out to the press in 1999 or 2000.

It was picked up by a LA Times writer (?) who was shocked at how such a transaction was announced, as a mere footnote; that the guy who hit one of the biggest homeruns in dodger history, the guy who took Jack Clark's cheap shot to the jaw (and held on to the ball) could be so unceremoniously dumped by the club.

The writer used this a proof of how much the organization had changed, and how much the owners at that time had no understanding or consideration for dodger history.

My point is that those kind of decisions have negative repercussions which last for years. Hence the talk of who should be our next manager.

[356man]

Jon, my comment if it was taken as such didn't mean to imply that this post subject was not worth discussing, it's just that we are talking 2011 for Matty in comparison to the daily train wreck known as the McCourts. Good managers seem to have one thing in common--a talented ball club. See: Casey Stengel/Yankees and Casey Stengel/Mets.

[Jack]

How do judge a manager to know if they are good or not?

Playing the best players, making reasonable batting orders seem something to judge a manager on.

Other than that, I dont think even the brightest guys working at baseball prospectus could come with a metric to grade them on.

[Dr. G]

Making the leap is easier for a catcher.

Joe Torre, catcher

Joe Girardi, catcher

Mike Scioscia, catcher

Catchers are the only players that have a complete view of the game, and a holistic conceptualization of strategy, pitch by pitch, moment by moment.

Dr. G, catcher

[blue22]

"So is Joe Girardi actually a good manager?"

Tough to tell, but he didn't get very good reviews this postseason. It's hard to deny his credentials when the Yankees hired him:

1. Catcher (and a back-up catcher to boot - those are the smartest kind!)
2. Strong Yankee pedigree (3 WS rings from late 90s teams)
3. Had just won NL Manager of the Year 1 year prior

Add 'em up and it looked like a pretty easy call to make for the Yanks, given how managerial candidates appear to be judged by teams. But I think you can also make a very strong case that those criteria really don't mean squat.

[kinbote]

Answering my own question here. Grady Little beat out Jim Fregosi, John McLaren, Manny Acta and Joel Skinner for the manager job. By the way, we never did find out what those "personal reasons" were why he left the club ;)

[El Lay Dave]

Why is being a minor-league manager necessarily better experience than being a bench coach for a team like the Yankees?

Posted by: blue22 | November 06, 2009 at 12:47 PM

Because only the manager makes the final decisions.

At my company you don't start your management career at the top, you start near the bottom. The long-time advisor to a top-level manager doesn't move over to management because he/she has no experience being the person with the authority of the final say.

[Horace Andy]

The Dodgers first choice in managers before they hired Torre was Joe Girardi. When he signed with the Yankees, they went to their second choice. Even then, I believe they had an idea that they wanted Mattingly to potentially succeed him if at all possible. Then as now, someone else could give Mattingly his first Managing job before the Dodgers.

[El Lay Dave]

Who was the last manager to be hired that had no professional managing experience? Bud Black?

[WBB]

If Mattingly had been promised the Dodger job, why would he have interviewed at Cleveland (which I believe he did)?

[Craig88USC]

I wonder who Tommy Lasorda would lobby for?

Hmmm... Hints. Used to play centerfield for the Angels,
also attended USC and is Ralph Branca's favorite Son-In-Law.

[blue22]

But how does pushing people like Larry Bigbie and Gary Bennett around in AAA prepare you for telling Juan Pierre to hit the bench so that kids making a fraction of his salary can play in his place?

It seems like if a big part of the job is "managing egos", that type of experience is gained in the big leagues. You have coaches that can tell you when to warm up pitcher x.

And I think Manny Acta and Don Wakamatsu were more recent hires than Bud Black.

[Eric Enders]

Mattingly has never managed professionally. Does it bother you that: a) he doesn't have that experience, or b) he's getting fast-tracked in a way you would never see happen for many other candidates?

I haven't read through the responses yet, but (a) doesn't bother me, and I don't agree that (b) is a correct supposition. Mattingly has a number of years as a major league coach, which, I believe, is the usual level of experience someone has before getting hired to manage. It seems like going to manage in the minors isn't a prerequisite anymore. For instance, Torre, Piniella, and Girardi never managed in the minors according to BB-Ref. Charlie Manuel did and so did LaRussa, briefly.

So I disagree that Mattingly doesn't have the experience most managerial candidates do, and I also disagree that he's being fast-tracked in a way other candidates haven't been. He's been a full-time major league coach for six years now and a part-time one for seven more.

All of the above is irrespective of what I think of Mattingly's actual prospects as a manager. Honestly, he makes me a little nervous, not because of his experience level but because he doesn't seem to have a personality type that I ordinarily associate with outstanding managers. He doesn't appear to be either the soothing, fatherly type (Torre) or the hotheaded, inspirational type (Piniella). That's not to say that he can't be successful, just that I have reservations.

One thing is, there's a lot to be said for hiring a young manager. I don't know if Mattingly, who would take over at age 50, would even be considered young anyway. But Bill James has pretty conclusively demonstrated that managers lose effectiveness the older they get, so hiring a relatively younger guy wouldn't give me pause.

[El Lay Dave]

Manny Acta managed seven seasons in the minors, Wakamatsu four.

[kinbote]

WBB-From the way I see things, DM first interviewed for the Cleveland job (and lost out), then met with Dodger brass to discuss something, then withdrew his name from Washington consideration. It is my belief that a handshake agreement (if not more) was reached that outlined his replacing Torre in 2011. This is conjecture, but we also have the strange "no determinate length" extension of Colletti as precedent.

[blue22]

Oh professional! Duh. Sorry.

[WBB]

Did Casey Stengel lose effectiveness as he got older? Is there any conceivable way to measure the effectiveness of Casey Stengel?

[Craig88USC]

The aging of a manager's brain thoughts?

Be careful.

[Dr. G]

What do the following winning managers have in common?

Joe Torre, Joe Girardi, Mike Scioscia, Tommy Lasorda, Tony LaRussa &
Terry Francona...

The Dodgers should be cloning that.

[Eric Enders]

Because only the manager makes the final decisions.

At my company you don't start your management career at the top, you start near the bottom. The long-time advisor to a top-level manager doesn't move over to management because he/she has no experience being the person with the authority of the final say.

Well, that's great, but I think the first mistake is assuming that baseball should work the same way as your company.

What are the most important skills you want in an MLB manager? It seems to me that far and away the two most important are 1) The ability to manage a clubhouse full of million-dollar egos, and 2) The ability to deal with the media. Managing in the minors won't come remotely close to gaining you experience in those two areas.

You might say strategy belongs with the other two as an important qualification for a manager. And I agree that it's important, but let's face it, almost all MLB managers are equally incompetent when it comes to strategic matters. It's not something that I look for in a candidate because I think it's a pretty safe assumption that all legitimate candidates are going to be bad at it. And anyway, plying their trade in the minors might only serve to reinforce the WRONG strategic philosophies.

Basically, I'm resigned to the fact that there is no such thing as an MLB manager who will help you win by means of outstanding strategy. "The book" has taken over to a degree unprecedented in baseball history, and even managers like Torre for whom job safety isn't a concern, are unwilling to do anything different or creative. What I want these days is not a manager who will win because of his strategy, but a manager with enough other characteristics that he will win in spite of his strategy.

[El Lay Dave]

It seems like going to manage in the minors isn't a prerequisite anymore. For instance, Torre, Piniella, and Girardi never managed in the minors ...

True enough for Girardi, but I can't see using Torre and Piniella, who started managing in the mid-70s and mid-80s, respectively, as example of the current thinking of GMs regarding previous experience when it comes to hiring managers.

I gotta run to a meeting, but if no one does it before I get back, I'll list the current major-league managers and their managerial experience when they were hired for their current job.

[Eric Stephen]

What do the following winning managers have in common?

Joe Torre, Joe Girardi, Mike Scioscia, Tommy Lasorda, Tony LaRussa &
Terry Francona...

Mattingly fits only if one considers the letter y to be a vowel.

[WBB]

I agree with Eric that managing all those clubhouse egos - plus those of management - is critically important, and Torre is more capable in this regard. But though I don't consider him the most strategically competent manager, Torre has also been willing to go v. the book sometimes, e.g. bringing in Broxton to face the heart of the order in the eighth.

[Eric Enders]

Did Casey Stengel lose effectiveness as he got older? Is there any conceivable way to measure the effectiveness of Casey Stengel?

It's a fool's errand to try to construct managerial rules based on the career of Casey Stengel, who had the oddest career of all time. He was awful, then awesome, then awful again. As Warren Spahn said, "I played for Casey both before and after he was a genius."

[WBB]

Actually, for Mattingly to fit in that group, the "g" would have to precede the "n".

[Tommy Naccarato]

I haven't been watching to see who and who isn't safe, but I hope that Josh Raitwich (sp.) is still with the team; although I wouldn't blame him for leaving. A really great guy that made us feel all at home during our visit this last season.

Obviously, Mattingly (Donnie Baseball) knows a thing or two about the sport. I would think that if Torre, who I do think is a good manager would be the selfless-type that would be setting him up for the position and that would be nothing but a positive.

Right now, the main thing the Dodgers need besides pitching and hitting is stability. This to me would be a stable thing; to show that the Dodgers while thinking about next season, are thinking about seasons ahead.

[Eric Enders]

I'll list the current major-league managers and their managerial experience when they were hired for their current job.

That'd be a good thing to know, but even more interesting would be their level of experience when they got their first MLB managing job.

[bhsportsguy]

Hey El Lay Dave, that sounds like a good post over at True Blue LA. :)

[Jon Weisman]

Posted by: El Lay Dave | November 06, 2009 at 01:12 PM

A.J. Hinch?

[Jon Weisman]

Posted by: Eric Enders | November 06, 2009 at 01:37 PM

Good comment.

[Craig88USC]

Doesn't it matter if a good manager has a good

team versus a bad team in any given year ????

Some teams are flat bad. Neither Al Einstein

or Phillip Jackson can effectively manage

nor coach simply plain awful teams.

Or could they? What comes first?

The chicken or the egg? ; )

[koofax]

Following this trail, I'd like to point out that the true reason of why Mattingly did not get the Yankee job was because he had very close ties to Torre. And the Steinbrenners wanted to make the cleanest break possible.

As for the constant re-emergence of Kevin Kennedy's name every time the Dodger manager job is up for grabs, can we please make that stop now? It is well known that he was a complete disaster in the clubhouse with the Red Sox. It took them two years to clean up the mess. If this guy is so smart (on TV, at least), how come he never gets a sniff on any other job openings? It's because everyone knows he's poison.

[Horace Andy]

Eric I agree with the first part of your statement, but not the strategy issue. I think strategy in baseball is so dependent on luck that suggestions that 'creative thinking' would yield vastly different results over an extended period of time is unlikely. A not quite related example is lineup construction, something fans often take issue with, however statistically speaking the best lineups when compared to the "book" lineups do not vary enough to make a significant impact in the outcome of the season or game.

[Die-Hard Dodger Fan]

Actually, I disagree with Jon and think that Mattingly would be a WONDERFUL hire as the next manager of the Dodgers.

In fact, one of the main reasons I wanted Torre as manager (besides getting rid of Gomer Pyle...err...I mean Grady Little), was the fact that Mattingly was coming over.

Mattingly served as hitting instructor for the Yankees starting in '04 and during his time from '04 to '07 they were one of the most explosive offenses in MLB.

A-Rod, Jeter and other Yankee hitters have made glowing endorsements of Mattingly as a hitting coach.

Just look at the Dodgers this year. They had the highes batting average for any NL team and they ranked 4th in the NL in OPS. The teams above them (Rox, Phils, Brewers) all play in bandboxes.

The Dodgers OBP was 4th in MLB and you could really see the develop of Ethier and Kemp into more patient batters.

Plus, Mattingly brings a certain gravitas just due to who he is (ie. Donnie Baseball & Captain of the Yankees) that helps earn respect from the players.

He's never been a manager but he's been a hitting coach and was promoted to bench coach of the Yankees in '06 and is also basically being groomed as a manager-in-training while here with the Dodgers.

Mattingly knows the game, is a proven teacher, garners a lot of respect from players and has served as a coach on the major league level for 5 years now.

I would rather see Mattingly become the Dodger coach versus some retread option. To me, he's a great choice to succeed Torre.

[KG16]

I'd prefer that a manager have some managerial experience, at least at the minor league level, but I don't think it's a deal breaker, either. Personally, I dislike the fact that, in any sport, the same list gets generated for every vacant head coach/managerial opening. In a way, it's a coaching equivalent to PVL... sure, Buck Showalter tanked in three other markets, but he can make it here. This is, in my opinion, the kind of thinking that saw the Dodgers hire Davey Johnson.

If Mattingly has the right strategic vision for the game, and his basic philosophies are in line with what the Dodgers are trying to do, then I say give him a shot, he's as good a choice as anyone else.

I mean really, when you get down to it, it's a very simple game: see the ball, hit the ball, throw the ball, catch the ball, run the bases.

[samhain31]

I posted my worries about Mattingly on Dodger Thoughts a couple of weeks ago.
He may be a towering leadership presence behind closed doors in the clubhouse. But he is about an anonymous a personality in the dugout as an almost-Hall of Fame can be.

A quiet leadership style can work. (Walt Alston for instance) But I believe that it requires a strength of personality that I have never seen Mattingly publicly exhibit.
Given that the Yankees knew Mattingly so well, I am afraid that the Yankee's passing over of Donny as manager to replace Torre may have been an informed decision...

[bhsportsguy]

Current managers with previous MLB managing experience prior to their current position:

Joe Torre
Jim Tracy
Bruce Bochy
Tony LaRussa
Lou Pinella
Dusty Baker
Ken Macha
Charlie Manuel
Bobby Cox
Jerry Manuel
Jim Riggleman
Joe Girardi
Terry Francona
Joe Maddon (twice interim manager for the Angels)
Cito Gaston
Jim Leyland
Manny Acta

Trey Hillman managed in Japan prior to becoming KC's manager.

[Troy]

"Given that the Yankees knew Mattingly so well, I am afraid that the Yankee's passing over of Donny as manager to replace Torre may have been an informed decision..."

As koofax said:

"I'd like to point out that the true reason of why Mattingly did not get the Yankee job was because he had very close ties to Torre. And the Steinbrenners wanted to make the cleanest break possible."

[Deuces are Wild]

I support Donnie Baseball as the Dodger skipper in 2011. Especially with Torre stepping down.
There have been many managerial highlights since Tommy left:
- Tommy steps down due to heart attack. His bench coach, Billy Russell replaces him.
- In a 1998 double-firing, Fred Claire and Bill Russell leave the Dodgers. Glenn Hoffman is the interim manager. Mike Scioscia remains as bench coach.
- New GM Kevin Malone, offers the manager's job to Felipe Alou, but is turned down and Alou returns to the Expos. Malone then turns to Davey Jonhson (over Kevin Kennedy), and Scioscia manages Albuquerque in 1999.
- Scioscia leaves after 1999, supposedly due to Malone, and lands in Anaheim, replacing Terry Collins and interim Joe Maddon.
- Davey Johnson is fired after 2 years and his bench coach, Jim Tracy takes over, remaining in the position from 2001 through 2005.
- New GM DePodesta has "philosophical" differences with Tracy, and Tracy is let go after 2005. If you have questions regarding those philosophical differences, remember Jason Phillips vs. Hee-Seop Choi, The LoDuca trade, etc.
- After an unimpressive list of Tracy replacements (see Torey Lovullo), DePodesta himself gets canned.
- New GM Ned Colletti moves quickly and picks Grady Little over Jim Fregosi to manage the team in 2006.
- After two years, and clubhouse conflict (see trash can), Dodgers secretly pursue Joe Girardi and offer him the job. Yankees quickly react and make a counter-offer, since they were letting Joe Torre walk. Dodgers then turn to Torre.
- Don Mattingly, passe over by the Yankees, declines to return to the Yankees, accepting a Dodger coaching position that many speculate is for two reasons: he's the heir-apparent to the job when Torre retires, and Preston Mattinly is in the organization.

What's tne next chapter? Obviously that once Torre leaves, Donnie takes over. I hope it happens. I see us being successful with Mattingly.

[louisinsf]

The question for me about most managers now is how they handle people? If Mattingly can do that like he hit we are in business. I also do believe the stability part is important, especially since the hitting core of the Dodgers maybe here for a while. Mattingly started with them near the beginning.

If Mattingly is hired he has to be able to have a pitching coach that he feels comfortable with. I have always though that when a new manager comes in they should be able to pick their staff. When the GM picks half, I think you run into problems.

[Cey Hey!]

I'm obsessing over Ausmus now that his name has come up. He seems to have the proper demeanor (calm), the smarts (Dartmouth) and the right background (catcher). Do we know if he'll be back in 2010? As a player or even as a coach?