Dodger Leaders of the 2000s: Hitting

Home runs

162 Shawn Green
125 Adrian Beltre
79 Gary Sheffield
75 Andre Ethier
75 Jeff Kent
61 Matt Kemp
59 Eric Karros
54 Paul Lo Duca
49 Russell Martin
45 James Loney

Adjusted OPS (minimum 1,000 plate appearances)

170 Gary Sheffield
130 Shawn Green
119 Andre Ethier
119 Jeff Kent
113 Matt Kemp
112 Adrian Beltre
109 James Loney
107 Paul Lo Duca
101 Russell Martin
101 Nomar Garciaparra

On-base percentage (minimum 1,000 plate appearances)

.428 Gary Sheffield
.368 Russell Martin
.367 Jeff Kent
.366 Shawn Green
.363 Andre Ethier
.354 Rafael Furcal
.354 James Loney
.346 Matt Kemp
.345 Nomar Garciaparra
.344 Paul Lo Duca

Slugging percentage (minimum 1,000 plate appearances)

.612 Gary Sheffield
.510 Shawn Green
.490 Andre Ethier
.480 Matt Kemp
.479 Jeff Kent
.476 Adrian Beltre
.451 James Loney
.445 Nomar Garciaparra
.433 Paul Lo Duca
.418 Eric Karros

Total bases

1535 Shawn Green
1300 Adrian Beltre
962 Andre Ethier
908 Jeff Kent
876 Paul Lo Duca
819 Russell Martin
809 Rafael Furcal
796 Matt Kemp
749 Cesar Izturis
730 James Loney

Hits

842 Shawn Green
759 Adrian Beltre
586 Paul Lo Duca
579 Cesar Izturis
571 Andre Ethier
569 Rafael Furcal
556 Russell Martin
551 Jeff Kent
495 Matt Kemp
477 James Loney

Doubles

183 Shawn Green
140 Adrian Beltre
132 Andre Ethier
122 Jeff Kent
120 Paul Lo Duca
103 Cesar Izturis
102 Russell Martin
95 Rafael Furcal
84 James Loney
83 Alex Cora

Triples

20 Rafael Furcal
20 Cesar Izturis
20 Alex Cora
19 Dave Roberts
18 Matt Kemp
18 Juan Pierre
17 Andre Ethier
17 James Loney
13 Adrian Beltre
12 Kenny Lofton

RBI

509 Shawn Green
421 Adrian Beltre
311 Jeff Kent
302 Andre Ethier
274 Russell Martin
265 James Loney
263 Paul Lo Duca
242 Matt Kemp
242 Eric Karros
209 Gary Sheffield

Stolen bases

134 Juan Pierre
118 Dave Roberts
85 Matt Kemp
82 Rafael Furcal
63 Shawn Green
60 Russell Martin
51 Cesar Izturis
41 Adrian Beltre
38 Tom Goodwin
32 Kenny Lofton

Runs created

565 Shawn Green
429 Adrian Beltre
349 Andre Ethier
329 Jeff Kent
303 Russell Martin
301 Rafael Furcal
289 Paul Lo Duca
277 Matt Kemp
272 Gary Sheffield
249 James Loney

That Gary Sheffield was something, but it looks to me like Shawn Green is the Dodgers' offensive player of the decade.

Comments

[Ken Noe]

Green and Beltre too.

I'm amused that the day after O-Dog wins the Gold Glove, I read that the Dodgers are talking to KC about Alberto Callaspo as a replacement. Bison had been play in.

[underdog]

Can I now go back to admitting that I loved Shawn Green? There was a time when we, myself included, were bitter about him leaving but now I can't remember the circumstances or why I was supposed to be down on him, and now I remember why I liked him. And also that he was Jewish.

Man, Sheffield could rake, couldn't he?

[artieboy]

Why did the Dodgers move Shawn Green to Arizona??

[Ken Noe]

Beltran Perez, Danny Muegge, and William Juarez, where are you now?

[el serracho]

yeah, sheffield, beltre, and green but who the heck is this ethier kid? we should have a look at him.

[regfairfield]

By the end of the contract, Green was an average first baseman make 16 million. Getting out of half the contract and getting Navarro was a solid return.

[Phenomenal Smith]

Shawn Green was on the Eric Karros career trajectory.

[Horace Andy]

I was excited when the Dodgers got Shawn Green and he surely had some epic seasons. For some reason he wasn't a lot of fun, though. I don't know why. Some players are just more electric than others. For example Green put up better numbers than Mondesi for the most part, but boy was it fun to watch Mondesi play.

[artieboy]

Beltre's #'s over 5 years turn out to be:
25 hr per season
152 hits per season
28 doubles per season
84 rbi's per season
86 runs created per season

Were those the numbers of an exceptional 3rd baseman?
25 HR sounds solid but only 152 hits per season and only 84 rbi's per season does not.

Fantastic glove but not the kind of numbers that warranted the contract he wanted nor the one Seattle has been regretting ever since.

[regfairfield]

You're forgetting that he was arguably the best defensive third baseman in the league, and in 2004 he was the best player in baseball with an on base under .600.

Even though Beltre had two bad years for the Mariners, his glove meant that he was still a solid value. Would we have been better off keeping him instead of getting JD Drew? You can make a case either way.

[artieboy]

>>For example Green put up better numbers than Mondesi for the most part, but boy was it fun to watch Mondesi play.<<

Absolutely. I was at a game where he beat out a grounder to second! Until "Sammy Sosa-itis" set in he was a joy to watch.

[Jon Weisman]

I'm not someone who uses RBIs as a barometer, since they are so opportunity-dependent. But it's hard to imagine that an average of 84 RBI per year on some of those offense-challenged Dodger teams as a negative.

[PismoBruce]

Reg - George Genovese probably wasnt allowed to make more than $18,000 a year due to medicare/social security requirements. Unless he wanted to forfeit those benefits, there's a cap on how much money he can make as a 'retired' person.

Posted by: Jack | November 12, 2009 at 08:17 AM

Not at age 87, I don't believe, but I haven't kept up with law changes lately.

[blue22]

Seattle's been regretting the Beltre deal? He's pretty well-liked up here, and enough research has been conducted to show the deal worked out just fine. There was some regret initially for not being able to be replicate his MVP season, but as time has passed, he's been pretty well appreciated in Seattle by fans and management.

[artieboy]

>>You're forgetting that he was arguably the best defensive third baseman in the league<<

Who was his competition for best 3rd baseman?

I thought Beltre was the best at the bare-handed throw to first when charging the plate.

Also if we are looking at mere statistics, 2004 (his contract expiration season) will inflate his overall numbers, though I don't know by how much.

[fanerman]

I wonder how Green's Dodger career might have ended if he actually took care of his shoulder injury in 2003(?) instead of trying to play through it.

[regfairfield]

Rolen or Chavez might have been better defensively those years. Subjective opinion though.

[ceyheyjay]

I can't believe no one has mentioned steriods yet when looking at those numbers. Sheffield's seem likely inflated by the juice, and while Green never looked the part, I've wondered about his numbers as well. Of course, Lo Duca's numbers aren't legitimate. And Beltre's 2004 season sticks out so far away from his career numbers, that he almost had to be on the stuff that year.

[KG16]

those fellows, Matt Kemp and Andre Ethier sure do appear a lot on this list. I don't know if that says something about how good they are, or how abysmal the Bums were the rest of the decade (or maybe it was just a high turnover decade).

[ceyheyjay]

It was an extremely high turnover decade for the Dodgers, but at one point it was for every team. It still is to some extent. I remember looking at a 2002 magazine in 2005 and noticing that we had like 2 or 3 players from the 40-man roster still with the team. Most other teams had between 5-10. The Dodgers' turnover as a whole has slowed a great deal since the corp group of young players made it to the show, but MLB still has a lot of turnover. All sports do these days.

[Humma Kavula]

Minimum 1,000 plate appearances? Boo!

We! Want! Marlon!

We! Want! Marlon!

[PineTar]

"those fellows, Matt Kemp and Andre Ethier sure do appear a lot on this list"

James Loney and Russell Martin, as well.

[underdog]

Look out world, Buster Olney's now tweeting!

And just wrote: @Buster_ESPN Dodgers aggressively seeking a 2B...We've heard about Uggla out there; Would Brandon Phillips make sense? We'll see.

Which doesn't even count as a rumor since he's just wondering aloud basically.

[artieboy]

>>Rolen or Chavez might have been better defensively those years. Subjective opinion though.<<

Chavez was the guy from Oakland right?

Yes it is subjective but since the Gold Glove is also subjective, how does the award compare amongst this group?

I still pick Beltre when it came to charging the bunt.

[KG16]

Real quick, and not to threadjack, but I wanted to respond to this from the last thread:

Posted by: Bill Haverchuck | November 12, 2009 at 07:43 AM

You'd be surprised how often attorneys tell their clients to settle cases for less than what the client wants. Something like 95% of civil cases settle before trial. Same goes with criminal cases, most get pled out. I've actually had arguments with clients about making a deal, not because I didn't want to take a case to trial, but because I understand the gigantic risk that is trial.

As far as the truth/justice/deserve issue goes, well, that's not really what we lawyers do. That's what the system as a whole does, and we are only a part of the system. Our job is to present the best possible case for our client (while remaining truthful), and to argue why the law or equity supports our clients' position. It's often up to the judge and/or jury to figure out what is justice and who deserves what.

I don't practice family law, but I'm guessing that most people who seek a divorce aren't looking to be counseled out of that decision. It is a decision that's made before they find an attorney. And, realistically speaking, the attorneys on both sides have probably laid out a best case scenario, a worst case scenario, and a most likely scenario for their clients. They're working for the best case, but they also recognize that the most likely case is probably what will happen.

[/soapbox]

[KG16]

Neither Uggla nor Phillips are free agents, correct? So what, exactly, would the Bums have to give up to get either player?

Personally, I think the smart play is to wait, give DeWitt a shot at second, and make a move at the end of next season when Manny is gone, and you can look to move Casey Blake at that point as well.

This off season is the year to bolster the starting rotation. Next year work on the line up.

[artieboy]

>>...it's hard to imagine that an average of 84 RBI per year on some of those offense-challenged Dodger teams as a negative.<<

With players like Sheffield, Green, Karros, Brian Jordan, a young Lo Duca, plus Roberts and Izturis getting on base, its hard to believe that those were "offense-challenged" teams. But if they were...they were.

I don't think RBI's are opportunistic. Given that you can get one without having to get a hit it's an indication of whether you are disciplined enough to not chase pitches and whether you can put the ball in play.

[DL]

Manny Ramirez doesn't have 1,000 plate appearances as a Dodger, of course, but he would rank first in adjusted OPS (178), first in OBP (.442), and second in SLG (.605).

It's kind of easy to forget what an incredible hitter Gary Sheffield was.

[reddog]

I'm just curious how Mike Piazza's numbers would compare with this list. I would guess he would be first in almost everything.

[bhsportsguy]

Someone is having fun with baseballreference.com play index

I'll ask this question, name the player in the National League who played the most games for one team from 2000-2009.

[regfairfield]

Chipper Jones?

[louisinsf]

Shawn Green had some great moments for the Dodgers, but he seemed to struggle at the end of his time with the Dodgers and his shoulder injury really hurt him. As I recall he had a very good NLDS for the Mets against us.

[bhsportsguy]

Chipper is 5th.

[OhioBlues12]

Lance Berkman?

[Phenomenal Smith]

Derek Jeter would be pretty high on the list.

[Phenomenal Smith]

Byron Scott fired by the Hornets. Jeff Bower should be the interim coach with Tim Floyd brought in as an assistant.

[Old Dodger Fan]

Ichiro?

[Humma Kavula]

BH -- I was gonna guess Jimmy Rollins. Looked it up. I was wrong.

[bhsportsguy]

Jeter is numero uno.

We have a winner, Lance Berkman

[Humma Kavula]

Most total plate appearances, 2000-2009, regardless of league/team:

Bobby Abreu. Jeter is second, 9 PA behind Abreu.

I would never have guessed him.

[bhsportsguy]

The top ten in games played for one organization
Jeter
Konerko
Berkman
Helton
Suzuki
Rollins
Pujols
C. Jones
M. Young
Posada

It took 48 players to complete that list. The leader of games played in the decade, Miguel Tejada.

[artieboy]

>> but as time has passed, he's been pretty well appreciated in Seattle by fans and management.<<

We liked him here in LA also. But why did he put up such superb numbers only once (his season before free agency)?

Remove his injury 2009 and his 2004 year and his four year averages (Hits, HR, doubles, RBI's) in Seattle (2005-2008) are better than his four year averages in LA (2000-2003).

But we didn't pay through the nose for 158 hits per season, 24 hr per season, 36 doubles per season, and 88 rbi's per season.

We preferred to spend our money more wisely: pitchers with no arms(Dreifort & Schmidt) and CF's who can't play the position (JP and a very bloated Jones)

[jasonungar]

But let's say the Tigers do talk trade with the Dodgers. How about Jackson and left fielder Carlos Guillen ($26 million for 2010-11) for left fielder Juan Pierre ($18.5 million for 2010-11) and left-handed reliever George Sherrill?

--Now I know and agree with Jon and others about the hot stove etc, but if I repeat this 100 times a day for the next 6 weeks will it become true? Because if it is, I am willing to do it.

[vanbrooks]

batting average ? or is that to old school?

[Humma Kavula]

OK, I'm having too much fun with Play Index.

The Top Ten L.A. Dodgers in Slugging Percentage, minimum 100 PA.

1. Anderson
2. Ramirez
3. Sheffield
4. Piazza
5. Hernandez
6. Smith
7. Snider
8. Guerrero
9. Green
10. Drew

Wait, Hernandez?

[Marty Leadman]

Tennessee seems to have an armed robbery problem.

[Humma Kavula]

batting average ? or is that to old school?

Top Ten Players in BA, 2000-2009, min. 500 PA:

1. Pujols
2. Sandoval
3. Ichiro
4. Helton
5. Mauer
6. Guerrero
7. Bonds
8. Chris Coghlan
9. Will Clark
10. Holliday

Upping it to 1000 PA, Sandoval, Coghlan, and Clark fall off the list...

1. Albert
2. Ichiro
3. Todd
4. Joe
5. Vladimir
6. Barry
7. Matt
8. Derek
9. Manny
10. Magglio

[Craig88USC]

Great work (as always), Jon :)

I agree: Shawn Green IS the Dodgers' offensive player of the decade.

Can't stop wishin' there were more CURRENT Dodgers on those lists...

Oh, wait... There are SIX! (multiple times) : )

[Jack]

I never understood how a player as great as Sheffield could be so hated by Dodger fans.

Evans traded him for Brian Jordan & Odalis Perez, and managed to not even save money by doing it.

[Jon Weisman]

Great retrospective on the Stanford-USC upset.

http://www.mercurynews.com/sports-headlines/ci_13768108

[jim hitchcock]

Awesome list. I'd forgotten about Green's speed on the basepaths.

[Craig88USC]

Yeah, that old school BA proves nuttin. Look at those names. ;)

[Craig88USC]

Trojan redemption is drawing near! :)

[Phenomenal Smith]

Gary Sheffield has the unique ability to make fans of various teams dislike him. Sheffield, in his bio, blames Bob Daly for the trouble for playing hardball with his contract.

That set up a battle of wills where everybody lost.

[SaMo]

But let's say the Tigers do talk trade with the Dodgers. How about Jackson and left fielder Carlos Guillen ($26 million for 2010-11) for left fielder Juan Pierre ($18.5 million for 2010-11) and left-handed reliever George Sherrill?

Posted by: jasonungar | November 12, 2009 at 11:32 AM

If you're wishing for fishes, wish for a shark. Throw in Ordonez for Repko and Placido Polanco for Jamie Hoffmann while you're at it.

[Jonny (TAFKAJ)]

After looking at the lists....(nicely done Jon) ......and seeing Shawn Green's name, I wikipedia'ed him..........

His entry contained the line........

Green was one of the best-known Jewish major league ballplayers,[1] and the most prominent one with the New York Mets since Art Shamsky played right field for the 1969 World Champion Mets.

Made me think of the show "Everybody Loves Raymond"....where his brother, Robert, names his bulldog "Shamsky" after the ballplayer.....
Good program.

[Ken Noe]

Heyman says Ned has asked the Mets about Castillo. Would have to be for Pierre, right?

[regfairfield]

Calling the fans idiots is one way to get them to hate you.

[Craig88USC]

Los Angeles had 650 people in 1820. It had grown to 4,385 in 1860. When USC was established in a mustard field in 1880 there were 11,183 people in LA. By 1890 there were 50,395 folks. In 1900 there were 102,479, in 1910 319,198 and in 1920 576,673. By 1930 there were 1,238,048 USC fans living in LA. The Trojans were the only game in town.

And were first. History lesson over. Pop quiz Friday!

; )

Now, of course we ALSO have the beloved Dodgers plus Lakers and UCLA basketball dominating...the landscape.

But back to football...
The Trojans can't turn the ball over or Stanford will kill them with time of possession.
John Heisman said, "It's better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football."

Knute Rockne put it best, "I've found that prayer work best when you have big players."
We have a lot of big players so prayer should be effective on Saturday. Beat the Farm! :)

[East Coast Dodger]

Jackson for Sherrill I can get on board with, even though I am down on Jackson. Jackson had an atrocious second half, and Keith Law anticipates a 5+ ERA next season. But Guillen has been the DH that can't hit for a bad Tigers offense. How would that help the Dodgers to acquire him and pay a different 4th outfielder who can't hit even more than we are presently paying Pierre?

[artieboy]

What did the Dodgers get for Dave Roberts?

[Humma Kavula]

In case the question has not yet been answered...

Dave Roberts transactions!

July 31, 2004: Traded by the Los Angeles Dodgers to the Boston Red Sox for Henri Stanley (minors).

[Humma Kavula]

All you need to know about Henri Stanley is that in the year after he was traded, he played the entire year at AAA Las Vegas and did not even get a cup of coffee, despite the fact that the Dodgers gave time in the outfield to the likes of Jason Repko (301 PA, 665 OPS), Jason Grabowski (123 PA, 495 OPS), and even Chin-Feng Chen (8 PA, 500 OPS).

[Tommy]

Gary Sheffield: the face of the Dodgers

[Craig88USC]

Ya mean, the angry face...

[jasonungar]

East Coast I do relent a little after thinking about it to myself further. I like the potential Jackson brings over the other three guys named. But I also get, based on other numbers a regression to mediocrity is in store for Jackson. I guess I just have always been pissed, for right or wrong, that we traded him for virtually nothing in the first place after watching him come up and throw so hard at a young age for us vs the big unit..

[nsxtasy]

>> Trojan redemption is drawing near! :)

Turn in your condoms today! :)

[jasonungar]

Green comes up often with me and my friends. He mashed for us!! Maybe it's because he was traded for Mondesi, and seriously at one time, who didn't love Mondesi? Or maybe because darn it all he had to do was hit in 03 for us!!

[jasonungar]

Green comes up often with me and my friends. He mashed for us!! Maybe it's because he was traded for Mondesi, and seriously at one time, who didn't love Mondesi? Or maybe because darn it all he had to do was hit in 03 for us!!

[kinbote]

I don't understand the E-Jax trade talk. I know the Tigers have major payroll issues, but trading a player who made $2.2 mil last year and is arbitration eligible for the next two years doesn't help that much. What's the most he'd receive in arbitration this year, double his 2009 salary? I would love to see him come back. I'd give up Sherrill and a mid-level prospect in a heartbeat.

[nsxtasy]

>> That Gary Sheffield was something, but it looks to me like Shawn Green is the Dodgers' offensive player of the decade.

That's easy to explain. Gary Sheffield played only half as much time in the 2000's as Green, 2.5 seasons vs 5. So Green's atop all the counting statistics, and Sheffield's atop all the ones that show a rate or average. Do you give it to the guy who hit the best even if it's during a shorter period, or the guy who hit over a longer period?

It's not surprising that we don't have anyone on the list of most games played for one organization. We don't have players who play their entire career for one team any more. As noted above, it's a lot less common nowadays, true. But still, this is also a reflection on our inability to sign long-term contracts with our best stars. Look at some of our competitors and the contract extensions they have signed with key players, such as Pujols, and I think Utley's on a 7-year contract. If we had better, smarter management, they would sign long-term contract extensions now, while it would probably be cheaper than doing it later, on guys like Kershaw, Kemp, Ethier, Kershaw, Billingley, Broxton, and, most importantly, Kershaw. ;)

[Humma Kavula]

Yesterday, DodgerDivorce.com posted this:

tomorrow we'll discuss one potential factual scenario under which Jamie signed the document that would make for some very, very explosive litigation.

...and all day today, I've been clicking on the site like a rat on crack.

[nsxtasy]

>> Gary Sheffield played only half as much time in the 2000's as Green, 2.5 seasons vs 5.

Oops. Sheffield played 3.5 seasons for the Dodgers, but only 2.0 were in the 2000's (not 2.5, my bad). So the figures above are for 2 Sheffield seasons and 5 Green seasons.

[xeifrank]

it appears Jon has been playing with the free Baseball Reference subscription.
vr, Xei

[Craig88USC]

Locking up Loney and Martin NOW is the smart money move IMHO

[Craig88USC]

And Billingsley. :)

[Troy]

"I don't understand the E-Jax trade talk. I know the Tigers have major payroll issues, but trading a player who made $2.2 mil last year and is arbitration eligible for the next two years doesn't help that much."

The thought behind it is that they can't afford to keep both Jackson and Verlander long term, and they'd be selling fairly high on Jackson by trading him now. Even so, doesn't seem like it is in their best interest to trade him.

[kinbote]

The Reds are paying Arroyo & Harang $13mil & $14.5mil respectively next year. It's just crazy how much the market has adjusted. There are contracts out there (Oliver Perez, Nate Robertson) that just never made sense. I can actually envision Pierre getting traded this offseason.

[bhsportsguy]

nxtasy - that's true but it is not yet relevant regarding this current team. First, I went back by decades and here is how many players on the list for most games played in a decade it took to come up with ten who played on one team.

1990s - 44
1980s - 20
1970s - 28

Also the lack of Dodgers on these lists goes more to poor scouting than lack of signing them to long term deals.

[356man]

Too bad about Byron Scott. I have a feeling he'll resurface soon in the NBA coaching ranks. And Jon, I'll be rooting for the Farm as well. Best of Luck...

[Phenomenal Smith]

USC was far from the only game in town in 1930. The PCL Angels were quite popular. And people cared a lot about college football at places like Loyola and Occidental and Pomona, etc.

[bhsportsguy]

Unless the Dodgers can get their arbitration-eligible guys to give them team options when it comes to their first few free agent years, I see no benefit to signing any of them to any long term deals just through arbitration.

Primarily because it won't be any cheaper (unless you get them to somehow bargain lower for the guaranteed money).

[kinbote]

I have come to the conclusion that if the Dodgers are in fact searching for a 2b, they should sign Placido Polanco. According to my internet research [!], he's close friends with Albert Pujols (can't hurt), never strikes out, and--perhaps most importantly--his name translates literally to "placid burro." On a team with a Bison and an Ox, we could use a Burro.

[Kevin Lewis]

Humma,

His last comment on the site was at 2:15 and it sounds like he is planning to have something posted today, but "life has intervened"

[Kevin Lewis]

Humma,

His last comment on the site was at 2:15 and it sounds like he is planning to have something posted today, but "life has intervened"

[kinbote]

Troy--That makes sense. According to mlbtraderumors, all five of the Tigers starting pitchers are available! It's tough. On one hand, I want to stay young and homegrown; on the other hand, there are value plays out there for the taking. I expect a very active trade market this offseason. Ned has to be looking at picking up some names off the clearance rack. He just has to figure out which parent to ask for the credit card.

[nsxtasy]

>> Green was one of the best-known Jewish major league ballplayers

The Dodgers have a long history of Jewish players on the team. In addition to Shawn Green and the obvious (Sandy Koufax) and recent (Brad Ausmus), they also include Steve Yeager, Norm and Larry Sherry, Cal Abrams, Mike Lieberthal, Scott Radinsky, and Goody Rosen. And also one ex-CEO of the team who may or may not have been a team owner.

[RB]

<>

No, those clubs weren't "offense-challenged", but if you break down the numbers, you will find that they didn't score as many runs as they could have or should have given the depth of their power. Both the 2000 and 2001 clubs hit over 200 home runs -- yet didn't break the 800 run barrier in either season. That tells me that the offense relied far too heavily on the long ball and that an unusual majority of those bombs were solo shots. That goes to the poor on-base percentage of each team, as well as poor hitting in RISP situations. Now, the 2003 club WAS a terrible offensive team all around, scoring fewer than 600 runs in the so-called "steroid era".

For truly "offense-challenged" Dodger clubs, you need to look back at the 1980s. The Dodgers didn't have a single club that entire decade score 700 runs, which is generally considered the mark of a decently good offensive team. Yet we won two championships. Go figure. In today's game, that just wouldn't be possible.

[underdog]

Amusing little tweet (and please note the "not" part of the handle):

RT @notmikedunleavy: The Clippers just fired me as coach and replaced me with the GM. Fortunately, that is also me.

[nsxtasy]

>> Unless the Dodgers can get their arbitration-eligible guys to give them team options when it comes to their first few free agent years, I see no benefit to signing any of them to any long term deals just through arbitration.

That's precisely the benefit - to sign them for a term that includes at least a few of their free agent years, not just through the arbitration years.

[xeifrank]

I am not crazy about locking up Loney, Martin or Billingsley long-term at this time. I would definitely NOT lock up Loney. He is a couple of arbitrations away from no longer being a bargain (league min salary and heading into prime have made him bargains). I think Martin has some question marks regarding his offense and Billingsley is of course a pitcher Matt Kemp is the only one I would lock up long term at this point in time. The others I'd let "play hungry" as Ned Colletti so eloquently put it. The Dodgers would be best taking their chances with the above mentioned three players come the free agent market when that time comes. Nothing wrong with giving them fair value, but let's wait until we cross that bridge. I think remarkable talent puts him in the other category.
vr, Xei

[Alex41592]

Silver Sluggers are being announced.

[nsxtasy]

>> The Dodgers didn't have a single club that entire decade score 700 runs, which is generally considered the mark of a decently good offensive team. Yet we won two championships. Go figure. In today's game, that just wouldn't be possible.

I don't agree with that last part.

I realize that the game changes in certain ways that prevent some things from recurring. For example, with today's five-man rotation, the chances of seeing another 30-game winner are slim to none.

However, there is nothing in the fundamentals that would prevent a team with a bit less offense from winning a championship. It would take the same thing it took for those old Dodger teams: primarily great pitching. A team with superior pitching could achieve a run differential just as big as one with superior hitting.

There have been recent champion teams whose offense wasn't overpowering. The 2005 White Sox were 13th in MLB with 741 runs scored. The 2003 Marlin were 17th in MLB with 751 runs scored. Both won the World Series. There's no reason it couldn't happen with even fewer runs scored.

[Jon Weisman]

MLB Network will air Ramon Martinez’s 18-strikeout performance for the Dodgers vs. the Braves in 1990, 12:30 p.m. Saturday.

(An alternative to USC-Stanford ...)

[nsxtasy]

P.S. The most recent team to win the World Series after scoring fewer than 700 runs during the regular season was the 1990 Cincinnati Reds, who had one of our current coaches as their second baseman. Not exactly ancient history...

[Jon Weisman]

New post up top.

[RB]

The game has changed considerably since 1990. A team would have to possess completely dominating pitching, both in the starting rotation and the bullpen, in order to have any realistic shot at winning a championship while scoring fewer than 700 runs today.

The depth in pitching talent today just isn't what it was in 1990 or before. There are four more teams today and a host of smaller, more offense-oriented ballparks than existed back then. Even Dodger Stadium is no longer the pitchers' park it was at that time.

Given that offensive fireworks are what puts the fannies in the seats, I just don't see a return to the pitching and stolen base type clubs we saw in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Nor do I want to.

[Craig88USC]

You know what else I forgot about?

Boxing in the 1920's and 1930's at the Grand Olympic Auditorium...

But, nothing came close to the goin's on at the LA Coliseum and the Rose Bowl. ;)

Speakin' of the RB... let's talk 'bout Stanford back in the day! Pretty impressive:

Stanford with Ernie Nevers played in the '25 Rose Bowl against ND with Rockne and the Four Horseman. ND won 27-10 despite a great game by Nevers who I consider to be Stanford's greatest running back of all time.

I may be proved somewhat wrong this Saturday. ; )

Stanford also played in it '27, '28. And in the'34,'35 and '36 Rose Bowls with the Vow boys.

The Vow boys vowed as freshman never to lose to USC, and they kept their vow. David Packard of Hullet/Packard was on those teams. He's part of why Stanford has $17.3 billion in endowments. USC has $3.5 billion. Hulett also graduated from Stanford.

Stanford lost to Alabama in the '35 Rose Bowl 29-13, Alabama's ends were Bear Bryant and Don Hutson. They couldn't stop Hutson. Hutson went on to play with the Green Bay Packers and caught 99 TD passes. That was an NFL record for 40 years.

Stanford's the school of Ernie Nevers, Pop Warner, Frankie Albert, Bob Mathias and Jim Plunkett.

Stanford and USC are also the only two private Universities in the Pac 10.

I believe, but could be wrong that it's our oldest rivalry.

Is that true, Phenomenal? Jon?

[K T]

Now that Kemp and Ethier have picked up the Silver slugger award…I sure hope Kemp doesn’t follow in the footsteps of R-mart…He definitely had an off year after scoring on the Daily Double

[artieboy]

>>Sheffield played 3.5 seasons for the Dodgers<<

If we compare Piazza's first 3 full seasons with Sheffied's 3.5 seasons who wins as far as power numbers are concerned?

That's what the trade came down to. It was essentially Sheffied for Piazza. Eisenrich, Bonilla, and Johnson were gone after the 1998 season.