Dodger Thoughts

Jon Weisman's outlet for dealing psychologically with the Los Angeles Dodgers and baseball

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August 08, 2009

Billingsley injury looks more serious this time

August 8, 2009 |  8:43 am

Chad Billingsley had been scheduled to pitch against Tim Lincecum in San Francisco on Wednesday, but that's up in the air after a wonky hamstring took him out of Friday's game against Atlanta. Dylan Hernandez of The Times has an optimistic view of things, but consider these reports.

From Jeff Eisenberg of the Press-Enterprise:

Team doctors will re-evaluate Billingsley today to see if he can make his next start, but he said he was feeling “not good at all.”

“I ran down the first-base line about halfway and felt a grab in my left hamstring,” Billingsley said. “I went back out there, tried to throw one pitch and couldn’t do it, so I just walked off the mound.”

From Vincent Bonsignore of the Daily News:

Billingsley will be re-evaluated Saturday, and while he didn't dispute what Torre said, he sounded slightly less convincing about the severity of the injury.

When asked how he felt, he resounded: "Not good at all."

Billingsley added he didn't think the injury was serious, but he was in obvious discomfort by the time reporters spoke to him after the game.

With Billingsley aching, Jason Schmidt on the disabled list, Hiroki Kuroda having his Sunday start pushed to Monday at least in part because of soreness (according to Hernandez) and Kuroda's Sunday replacement Scott Elbert having pitched in relief Friday, it's safe to say the Dodgers' starting rotation has a lot of question marks. (Torre said in his post-game chat that Elbert was unlikely to start Sunday.)

It's not that the questions can't be answered, with Eric Stults and Thursday's off day available to help solve the problems, but something tells me that Tony Abreu's presence on the team will be very temporary this month.


The comments to this entry are closed.

Comments

Well, let's see if some of those prospects that Ned Colletti refused to give up for Halladay are ready to play.

The failure to get a starter at the trade deadline is about to come back and bite this team.

No, they aren't ready to play, that's why they're called prospects and not baseball players.

I'd hate to see how bad things would be this year if weren't the best team in the NL by a huge margin.

Why do so many people -- John B, for instance -- have trouble grasping the concept that 2009 isn't the only season that matters to the Dodgers? The Dodgers do intend to be around in a few years, and they are right in thinking that people like John B will be quick to complain, and loud about it, if the Dodgers are the fifth best team in the NL West at that time because they put all their eggs in the basket of 2009.

I went to the diner this morning and got "eggs in a basket."

It turns out that I can't eat 50 hard boiled eggs.

No one can eat fifty eggs!

Hideki Irabu is returning from pitching in the American independent leagues to go pitch in a Japanese independent league. I don't know if his new team is owned by Michael Vick.

The Kochi Fighting Dogs.

http://tinyurl.com/koloem

Guess what? Maybe they aren't ready to play, but now they're going to have to play.

Look, I wouldn't like giving up prospects if this wasn't a quality farm system. The Phillies didn't destroy their farm system, and they got Cliff Lee.

This might be much ado about nothing. Billingsley might not be seriously hurt, and could make his next start, or maybe miss one or more turns. Kuroda's soreness might be nothing.

But if we're sitting here a week from now and one or both are on the DL, and you're left with a rotation of Kershaw, Wolf and two or three holes to fill, that wide margin could disappear in a hurry.

Reg -

I agree with your point on the prospects, but to say the Dodgers have been "the best team in the NL by a huge margin" isn't accurate either.

John B -

In fairness to the Dodgers, the report here in Cleveland was that the Dodgers made a strong run at Lee - offering what was described in the local media as "a similar package" for Lee as what Cleveland ultimately took from Philadelphia.

I don't know what they offered (if anything) for Halladay, but the fact that no one got him may indicate Toronto's asking price was not realistic.

Your comment mentioned Halladay, not Lee. The Phillies wanted Halladay rather than Lee, but they weren't willing to meet Toronto's price any more than the Dodgers were. And the Dodgers did offer Cleveland four prospects for Lee, just like Philadelphia. Cleveland simply chose the package they liked best, even though the Dodgers say they think they offered the better package of prospects.

I can eat 50 eggs in a hour

Marty,

That's kind of scary.

4.5 games ahead of everyone is a pretty big margin.

And no, the prospects won't have to play because they aren't ready. Even if it's McDonald who gets the starts I really doubt Ned sent the trade talks grinding to a halt with a "whoa whoa whoa, you want me to trade James McDonald for Roy Halladay." The only guys we have with enough upside to be worth Halladay are in the low minors.

Reg, since Toronto wanted more than six prospects from us, McDonald or Elbert or both of them could have been in the package Toronto wanted, in addition to five prospects lower in the system.

Remember last Monday when I said Torre should skip Billingsley's next start? I was right.

Dadgum it, I hate it when I'm right about things like this.

Friday's game really unraveled when Torre foolishly sent Billingsley to the plate in the bottom of the sixth.

The guy is a 5-, 6-inning pitcher. Everyone just needs to accept that. I don't care that he had a low pitch count and was breezing. We have about six guys in the bullpen who are reliable.

Trouble is, Torre made the most foolish blunder of all by forcing Kuo to rush into a ballgame. Should have brought in Mota, Troncoso, anyone but Kuo in a situation like that.

He needs to warm up in the bullpen on his own terms (I know he had as much time as he needed to warm up on the mound, but he obviously rushed it; everyone does in that situation).

If Kuo warms up properly, he breezes through that inning and we win the game.

Right, but I doubt McDonald was the absolute stopping point.

every report and rumor i heard said that the BJ's wanted ML players, not prospects.


dodgerkramer -

It is frustrating that Billingsley got hurt batting, but I don't think you can blame that on Torre, but I'm with you on Kuo. I wouldn't have gone to him after he'd pitched the night before, but no guarantee whoever he used wouldn't have given up runs themselves.

The most curious move I thought was taking Manny out in the 9th ? I don't agree with that move at all in a 1 run game when the end result is putting the pitcher's spot up 3rd in the bottom of the inning. That turned out to be a critical move and, frankly, surprising. Is there anything more to that ?

Dodgerkramer, I agree, Kuo should be allowed to warm up at his own pace. It's a pain for us to account for a reliever to warm up in that manner but Kuo is worth it.

Over at the Dodgers.com board, I see people talking trash about Elbert. One guy wonders what the Dodgers see in him and says that Elbert "is not MLB material." I could address that from a number of angles, but I wonder what that commenter would have said about Roy Halladay when Halladay was the age Elbert is now, 23? Here is how Halladay performed as a Toronto Blue Jay at age 23:

67.2 IP, 107 H's, 14 HR's, 42 BB's, 44 K's, 10.64 ERA.

Now THAT's what I call not being MLB material.

dodgerkramer - i like the fact that you are a passionate fan but as someone who was at the game, you are wrong. Billingsley was pitching an effective if not a low strike out game for him but the fact that he suffered an injury while batting in the bottom of the sixth has no relation to whether or not he is what you call a "5-6 inning" pitcher.

Losses are frustrating to be sure but as much as Thursday night was a great thrilling win, you have to accept that you will lose once in a while when everything seems to look you will win.

That's why baseball is so great, until there isn't another game on the schedule, you will always have tomorrow to look forward to.

OhioVic and msarg:

I appreciate your feedback. Sounds like you guys had similar concerns that I did.

I just think any reliever we put on the mound is likely to be better than Billingsley in the seventh inning.

By the way, can we all agree that the NL needs the designated hitter? I am absolutely sick and freaking tired of pitchers getting hurt batting and running the bases. Ramon Martinez, Kevin Brown, Chad Billingsley, the list goes on and on. And that's just the Dodgers.

The pitchers are too valuable and too hard to replace. They should NOT bat. Never, ever, ever.

In looking back, I shouldn't have tossed out Halladay's name, because I do think the asking price was no doubt a bit much, and I know it is a hot-button topic here. Still, I worry the failure to find a fifth starter all season could become something that comes back to bite them.

I would hope today that there is some discussion about finding fresh arms, especially given the health concerns of Billingsley and Kuroda.

I'm thinking Weaver pitches tomorrow, and Stults gets called up. And maybe it's time to see what Josh Lindblom has.

Not a big fan of the DH, DK. : )

I just prefer the strategy of the pitcher in the lineup, that's all.
Pitchers can get hurt just tying their cleats sometimes, too.

If we win tonight, all will be forgotten.

Thank heavens the Reds beat the Giants.

:-)

Josh Lindblom has been converted into a reliever. He's not a starting option anymore.

Pitchers contort their elbows, shoulders, and knees into unnatural positions around 100 times a game?

And running to first base is the reason why they get hurt?

http://griddle.baseballtoaster.com/archives/1021770.html

Craig:

I gotta run, but I want to make one comment before I do. :-)

With all due respect to your preference for strategy, I'd like to paraphrase the great Sparky Anderson.

"It doesn't take a brain surgeon to flip-flop the batting order."

The whole "strategy" thing is a myth, passed down from father to father much like Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

No amount of strategy is ever gonna make me comfortable with Ramon Martinez/Chad Billingsley pulling a hammy running to first base, or Kevin Brown or Hiroki Kuroda getting their fingers caught between the ball and bat on a bunt attempt.

We don't ask Pujols or A-Rod or Manny to pitch, do we? So why should Billingley and Carpenter and Lincecum be asked to hit?

If you want a sport where each player is asked to do everything, watch basketball or something. Even then, you'll never see Shaq or Pau Gasol fire up a 3-pointer.

Let's get 'em tonight, boys!!!!!!

two typos...

--I meant to say "from father to son"

--Also meant to spell Billingsley's name correctly.

Good day, ladies and gents.

:-)

We don't ask players like Albert Pujols to wake up with stiff necks or have bad elbows either. Yet, they have them.

Baseball is a sport. People get hurt. It happens.

Ah, the Griddle makes and appearance. Break out the eggs.

I think that Stultsy & Spicoli are as good as some and better than most other team's #5's. And we don't have all the info on Bills' hammy, yet. But I hope for the best and
if we're planning for the worse then, yeah -
Phenom Lindblom could be a good one!

I'd put Bills on the DL for 15 days, get that hammy better, give him rest for the stretch run and the playoffs. I'd put in Stults and Elbert for the two weeks and let them audition for the 5th slot.

To balance out the quotes Dylan Hernandez posted this quote this morning:

Chad Billingsley, who strained his left hamstring in the sixth inning of the Dodgers' 9-5 loss to the Atlanta Braves on Friday night, will be examined this morning.

"I doesn't seem too serious," said Billingsley, who was charged with one earned run in the first six innings of the 12-inning loss at Dodger Stadium.

http://tinyurl.com/mfsnlg

As noted in my first paragraph ...

Oh yeah look at that.

That's pretty good news, Alex. :)

Let us know how the exam goes. Thanks.

if the NL adopts the DH, I'm probably done with baseball. And injuries like Billingsly's are: 1. not very common; 2. can happen to any player while running; 3. had nothing to do with his pitching performance; and, 4. is just one of those things.

I'm somewhat concerned that Billingsly is being shoved onto the JD Drew track in some fans' minds.

I didn't post anything first thing this morning, because there was really nothing to say. We lost last night.

Starters? I think the answer is simple. We bring up Stults tomorrow, and send back Abreu. Stults starts tomorrow's game. If Bills isn't ready to pitch on Wednesday, Elbert starts. And we move on from there.

>> By the way, can we all agree that the NL needs the designated hitter?

No.

let's also not forget about Weaver as a spot starter.

I can't understand where this "Billingsley is a 5-6 inning pitcher" talk comes from. Did April, May and June happen, or am I taking crazy pills?

He's failed to get into the sixth inning exactly five times this year. He's pitched at least seven innings 10 times. He's allowed more than 4 earned runs four times all year. And if you somehow haven't noticed, he's pitched exceptionally well the last two games, and he only came out because he tweaked him hamstring (those poor hamstrings, trying to support those massive thighs!). This is evidence that he's a 5-6 inning pitcher? Give me a break.

He has had one bad stretch in July. Let's have some perspective.

And no, I resolutely refuse to endorse the NL adopting the designated hitter. No way, no how.

nxtasy-

Stults pitched on Thursday and threw 61 pitches. Not enough rest to start on Sunday.

I don't see why Elbert can't make it. He made very few pitches last night.

>> let's also not forget about Weaver as a spot starter.

We need Weaver as our only long man in the pen. If Stults and Elbert both are problems in more than one start, or if someone else gets injured, then that's when you consider letting Weaver start. Not before that. IMO.

Oh, and someone suggested the 15-day DL for Bills. You use that option if you're pretty sure he's not going to be ready to start again for 15 days, and AFAIK no one involved has come to that conclusion yet.

Our upcoming schedule shows when we need a fifth starter, and when we have off-days that can cover that spot in the rotation:

5 games 8/8-12 (SF, Atl)
1 day off 8/13
10 games 8/14-23 (Ari, StL, ChiC)
1 day off 8/24
16 games 8/25-9/9 (Col, Cin, Ari, SD, Ari)

After that point, for the rest of the season, we have four off days, as well as our September call-ups.

Come on, give Haeger a chance. He deserves it.

>> Stults pitched on Thursday and threw 61 pitches. Not enough rest to start on Sunday.

Yeah, you're probably right about that. Then Weaver is the only real alternative for Sunday. (I still don't understand why Torre used Elbert last night!)

>> I don't see why Elbert can't make it. He made very few pitches last night.

But he warmed up and pitched. He could pitch in relief on Sunday, maybe, but starting? No way.

(And, as noted in Jon's post above, Joe said in his post-game briefing that it was unlikely that Elbert would start on Sunday.)

Is Haeger on the 40-man roster?

>> Come on, give Haeger a chance. He deserves it.

Haeger and Lindblom are waiting in the wings, but they're unlikely to get called up unless someone goes on the DL, since we need all the bullpen arms we already have on the 25-man roster. (I'm still not sure who we send down when Belisario's ready, assuming we send Abreu back down for Stults.) Also, neither Haeger nor Lindblom is on the 40-man roster; I believe we have an opening there, but only for one person, not two.

I expect Belisario to be activated before tonight's game.

That's a great reason for not having the DH: We don't have the DH because..... because we don't have it. It's use in the AL has been nothing but successful. It brings more offense into the game, it eliminates the constant shuffle of bringing new pitchers into the game to face one hitter. And most annoying of all, it stops two old men whose acumen is constantly being questioned by their own team's fans, trying to one up the other with the relief pitcher/pinch hitter boondoggle. I think most fans go to see young men play, not old men make fools of themselves. I emphatically vote for the DH.

That's a great reason for not having the DH: We don't have the DH because..... because we don't have it. It's use in the AL has been nothing but successful. It brings more offense into the game, it eliminates the constant shuffle of bringing new pitchers into the game to face one hitter. And most annoying of all, it stops two old men whose acumen is constantly being questioned by their own team's fans, trying to one up the other with the relief pitcher/pinch hitter boondoggle. I think most fans go to see young men play, not old men make fools of themselves. I emphatically vote for the DH.

Posted by: Scrounger | August 08, 2009 at 11:30 AM


It places a heavier burden on the pitcher due to facing one more batter than he would have otherwise. Claiming that facing a guy like Adam Lind, or Victor Martinez or Jim Thome is a good thing for keeping a pitcher's healthy. When he has to work harder to get guys like these guys out much harder than he typically could over a pitcher is making a huge assumption.

*it eliminates the constant shuffle of bringing new pitchers into the game to face one hitter*

This is false.

I guess we probably won't hear anymore about Bills until game time.

Hope he is alright, the Dodgers need him.

Count me on the no DH in the National League thing. What would we argue about if manager's didn't pinch hit their pitchers when we want them to? I like the strategy involved in managing in the NL.

To answer a question from earlier. Haeger is not on the 40 man, though there is currently a vacancy on the 40 man from unloading Vargas so that transaction can be made relatively easilty.

The starter's only job is to throw the first pitch. There's no reason, on a team with 13 pitchers, that Torre can't just plan to share Sunday's game among 2 or 3 pitchers. Treat it like an All-Star Game, with nobody expected to pitch more than 3 innings. Some combination of McDonald, Stults, Elbert, and Weaver ought to be able to produce the 7 innings you'd like from your "starter" and you'd still have a few guys left to "relieve" (Broxton, Kuo, Troncoso, Sherrill, maybe Belisario).

There needn't (for one start) be a desperate search for a guy who can go deep into the game.

I would be in favor of a bullpen game if there was an off day the next day.

With the Giants series starting the next night I'd like not to burn through the bullpen. But, they may have to do it.

Man people must really want Pierre in LF with all the DH talk. If they were to drop the DH, what would be the purpose of having an AL and NL? If Pitchers are so precious and delicate, maybe they should have a designated fielder too, or just yell "out" why a ball comes their way.

I believe the best solution for Sunday is uniltateral surrender.

The DH is a perversion of the principle of ultimate fairness that was once the foundation of the game

You play in the field, you get your ups

I don't need rules to inspire offense, I dont need rules to protect people from freakish injuries

I just need baseball

The other effect of the DH is longer games. I don't think we need games to be any longer than they already are.

I believe Dodger great, Don Drysdale, injured his leg sliding into 2nd base and that effectively ended his career.
As for our biiiig lead and all that talk of we only need to win so many games and then SF will need to win X. It sounds great, but does not take into account the games we play against each other. A sweep by SF next week (heaven forbid) and perhaps we lose and they win Sunday--puts our lead at about 2 games. Which would mean we go into the last week of the season in a must win situation if nothing changes in between. Just another scenario.

This is the same Giants team that lost a game 10-5 because they allowed 3 unearned runs in the top of the 9th, and 5 runs total.

I'd take my chances with the Giants.

Furthering my comment.

At least the Dodgers lost because the other team beat them.

The Giants decided that walking in the winning run, then committing 3 unforced errors to score 3 more runs, and then allowing a sac fly to score the 5th run was a lot more satisfying than simply allowing a base hit to lose a game.

The DH, even more than Prop 13, is the reason this country is in the state it's in.

I abhor the DH. I cannot stand AL baseball because everytime I see the DH I break out in hives.

I would get rid of interleague at the drop of a hat as well.

Dh to me does not make games more exciting. rather the opposite. More offense is not more exciting. Tight close games are exciting.

I believe the best solution for Sunday is uniltateral surrender.

As opposed to bilateral surrender?

Yeah, Prop 13 only killed California. Not the "real" America. That was totally the DH. And MTV.

"Get off Marty's lawn!"

Don Drysdale retired early because of an arm injury. Presumably his right shoulder was shot after all of the innings he put in at a fairly young age.

1969 AP article where Drysdale announces his retirement:
http://tinyurl.com/m2khu2

If the iants didn't exist, we would have to invent them.

Who are these iants?

The iants are the favorite team of Apple Computers. Except they prefer the spelling iAnts.

The Dodger should just take a cue from Little league when you have two or three aces. Just go five innings for the starters, then three with Troncoso, Bellisario, maybe Mota, and finish with the big man if needed. The starters are good for five no problem. You might save some injuries and losses in exchange for egos. who cares. Winnings is the ticket its a sure fire strategy and will make Torre into a genius in light of the pitching situation. You heard it here first
To far fetched?

apologies, Gobears you basically said it first

I missed last night's game as a friend and I were downtonw working on rule 11 violations. We lingered in the Varnish for several hours imbibing the most amazign creations, I particularly recommend you go on a hot evenign and try an adderley.

Sounds like it was a good night to miss a disappointing result.

Reds and Giants underway in a radio only game.

I second the elimination of interleague play. I hate the DH. I hate three divisions, I hate the wild card, I hate the unbalanced schedule.

Okay, I don't really hate these things, but I rather do away with all this stuff. Change terrifies me.

mwhite06
Does this fear of change also make you avoid the "take a penny, leave a penny" tray?

"Take a penny, leave a penny" is a redistribution of wealth scheme that would have made Lenin blush.

The DH is a travesty - a scourge accross the land that makes a mockery of real hardball.
Real hardball is only played in the NL.
The NL doesn't "make" anyone go to bat, it simply offers the best option still available at the MLB level for those that can cut it.
If you can't cut it in the OF, or if you're a pitcher and don't want to swing the bat - it's real easy - go play in the clownish AL.

As I like to tell my American League rooting friends:

The NL plays baseball.
The AL plays pinball.

Humma,

You should have saved that comment for September. A sure winner any other month, but Marty already has this one wrapped up. :)

I'm going to tonight's game and hopefully Kershaw has his stuff and the umps don't squeeze him like they did against the Brewers. The Blue haven't had great luck when I've attended recently. My last game was the Schmidt debacle vs. Milwaukee. I did attend Bobbleslam so I hope the winning ways return.

2-1 Reds Top 4.

Reds move ahead, 2-1, on a base hit from "Petaluma's own" Johnny Gomes.

Petaluma must be so proud.

I am late, but I have added content.

I don't prefer the DH, and I think the difference between the two leagues hurts NL teams in the World Series, but I don't see it as any sort of abomination.

I'm not a fan of interleague play, against because of the unfairness that it creates in the schedule (which matters most for the Wild Card races).

And I actually really like the Wild Card. It keeps up interest in the regular season for longer, and it increases the probability that all of the best teams will make the playoffs. It also gives hope to small-market teams whose only show at the playoffs is the WC.

So WC Good. DH in AL Bad. Interleague Play Really Bad.

There will be a test on this material at some point in the future. I'll post my Power Point slides on the course website.

Hmm, speaking from the westside of Petaluma, I think there is general acknowledgement of Gomes, but pride might be too strong a word. Besides, this week Tommy Everidge is the hot local subject.

In case Jon ever tires of his subhead ("...dealing psychologically with the Los Angeles Dodgers..."), he can change it to

DODGER THOUGHTS
Getting to the Bottom of How Petaluma Feels about Johnny Gomes Since 2009

Humma - Very good - you are on your game today !

Mmm...Lagunitas....

Velez HR. 2-2 tie in S.F.

Watching the 74 WS and Ron Lucciano umping at third assuring Tommy that the NL would adopt the DH because it had been a success in the AL. If he hadn't been miked, I assume Tommy would have told him to stick it. BTW, Holtzman having to hit in the 73-74 series as a pitcher for the A's came up with 3 doubles and a dinger.

For those advocating using the opening on the 40-man roster for Charlie Haeger or Josh Lindblom or anyone else, I believe the Dodgers are keeping that slot open for Minky's return from the 60-day DL. If it is used on anyone other than Minky, that either prevents his return, or else it means that when he returns, we DFA someone and risk losing them to another team (barring an injury serious enough to move someone to the 60-day DL).

If you're wondering who's on the 40-man roster currently, so you can decide who is worth losing, here are the 14 players on it but not on the 25-man: Belisario, Castillo, Garate, Leach, Schlichting, Schmidt, Stults, Wade, Ellis, May, DeWitt, Hu, Hoffmann, and Repko. Not included are the four guys on the 60-day DL: Minky, Milton, Ohman, and Paul.

The most likely play if we need to add someone to the 40-day - this category would include not only Haeger or Lindblom, but also anyone we might pick up off waivers (e.g. Smoltz) - would be by losing Schmidt for the rest of the season (by moving him to the 60-day DL, DFAing him, or releasing him).

I don't think we're yet at a point where we want to make any move on the 40-man roster.

3-2 Giants Bot 6. Molina RBI single.

Red Sox have now gone 20 consecutive innings without scoring at the "New Yankee Bandbox".

Actually, it is interesting game so far.

Today's game between the Red Sox and Yankees is shaping up as another interesting game. VERY interesitng, in fact.

Eric Stephens - who are the front runners for comment of the month so far?

Move along people in New York. Nothing to see. Move along.

 


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