Red Barber: How Vin Scully got hired

After the 1982 baseball season, Larry King had legendary announcer Red Barber on his radio show as a guest. Stan from Tacoma, the screenname of one of Dodger Thoughts' most valued friends, sent me a tape of that wonderful interview during the most recent offseason, and I finally got around to transcribing this section, in which Barber describes how Vin Scully came to broadcast games for the Dodgers.

King: When we're in Los Angeles in a couple of weeks, we're going to broadcast from the Los Angeles Sheraton Universal, and one of our guests will be Vin Scully. You hired Vin Scully, did you not?

Barber: Yes -

King: For CBS, right?

Barber: That's right.

King: Tell that story.

Barber: Well again, Larry, this is what I said earlier about the changes and chances of this mortal life. We were three of us in Brooklyn -- Connie Desmond, Ernie Harwell and I -- through the season of 1949. Ernie had joined us in 1948. And after the season of '49, Harwell got the opportunity to go over to the Polo Grounds with Russ Hodges and become you might say a co-broadcaster, rather than be the third man in a three-man setup. And we were glad for him, but that meant we needed somebody else, Connie and I.

And I had sort of had the idea kicking around -- television hadn't come around too strongly then, and we didn't need an all-out professional third broadcaster -- I had the idea that it would be rather interesting if we could find a promising young fella and sort of train him on the air. And I talked to Mr. Rickey about it, and he said, "Well, it's a good idea, but you'll have to find the right man."

[Backtracking] We were doing the football roundup on CBS in those days. And Ted Church was director of news, and I was then director of sports for CBS, and one morning, Church came in my office, and he had this young, red-headed fellow with him, and he said, "Red, this is Vince Scully, who has been doing some relief announcing on our CBS station, WTOP down in Washington this summer, and he's looking for a job. He just came to see me, and he recently graduated from Fordham."

And, so with that, Church walked out -- he didn't have anything for him. And I didn't have anything either -- we didn't carry any staff at 485 Madison, but I talked with Vince for a while, and he made a very favorable impression. But as I said, we had nothing for him. I didn't take down his name, address, phone number or anything else, and he left.

Well, a couple of weeks later, there was a spot that came up on the football roundup. We used to employ about 75 to 85 people on that. It was all across the country. And we had a spot up in Boston, and we couldn't get a CBS announcer up there, so I said to John Doerr (sp?), my associate, "You know that red-headed fellow that was in here -- he could do that thing up there in Boston, I betcha." I said, "Go around and ask Ted Church what his name was, to get his phone number." Well, Doerr came back and said, "Well, Church hasn't got his name and phone number."

And then I remembered that Church said he graduated from Fordham, and I knew that Jack Coffey, the graduate manager of athletics up there, had a fantastic memory. He used to remember not only people's names but their birthdays. So I said to Doerr, I said, "John, call Coffey up at Fordham." Sure enough, Coffey came up with his name and phone number. And we sent Scully up to Boston, and he did a wonderful job up there. But that was all we had for him then.

And then I got the word -- I was out at the end of the football season, doing a California-Stanford football game. And at halftime, the engineer handed me a note and said, "Ernie Harwell has joined Russ Hodges at the Polo Grounds." So, flying back to New York, I kept thinking, "Well, who are we gonna get? Who are we gonna get for the third man?" Then I said, "That red-headed fella that went up to Boston did a good job," so I sent for him, and talked to him for a little bit. And I said, "Would you be interested?"

Well, his eyes got big as teacups. So I said, "You'll have to go and talk to Mr. Rickey." Well, in a bout an hour, Mr. Rickey called back, and he said, "Walter?" -- he always called me Walter -- he said, "Walter, you've found the right man." And that was the beginning.

And so Scully came on the air, and as you remember Larry, Connie and I presented him to the public for just what he was, and we trained him on the air. If he did something we thought was not the right technique or something else, well, we'd straighten it out right over the air. But we didn't have to do it often, because he was so quick. His mind was so quick. You heard him on the World Series with Sparky Anderson! It's amazing! He's right on top of it. He was more accurate doing the radio against a TV picture than the TV fellas were themselves.

King: Is he the best?

Barber: He is undoubtedly the best, no question.

King: Nobody in his league.

Barber: There is nobody close to Scully.

Comments

[Eric Stephen]

That was awesome to read. Thanks, Jon, and Stan from Tacoma!

I used to listen to Larry King's radio show in high school. Its been a while.

[nomos bent cap]

That's awesome

[JJ24]

That was a special treat!

[nomos bent cap]

You also have to love the old school "dippity do" Vin was sporting back then.

I think he still wears that suit!

Love you Vinny!

[underdog]

Nice!

I always wondered about the details about Scully's hire, as such a young, fresh fellow as it were, under Barber's wing. This is great stuff.

I need to find more audio of Red Barber calling games, too, because I'm not familiar enough with another one of the greats. My grandfather and dad both used to talk about him.

[Alex41592]

Excellent! That was great to read.

Wilson making it interesting in the ninth inning. 5-3 Giants with two on and one out for the Marlins.

[jasonungar]

He's right on top of it. He was more accurate doing the radio against a TV picture than the TV fellas were themselves.

--
i just love it!!

[Alex41592]

Gload works a nine pitch walk to load the bases.

[Alex41592]

Wilson is missing and missing badly now. 28 pitches and the crowd is getting restless.

[Tripon]

For all the talk about Broxton yesterday. He's no Brian Wilson, and thank God for that.

[Alex41592]

Comebacker to Wilson. Wilson throws a bad throw to second but Renteria got the force. Two outs runners at the corners. 5-4 Giants with slap hitter Bonifacio up.

[Alex41592]

Count goes full to Bonifacio.

[Eric Stephen]

A couple months back my brother found an old Sports Illustrated article from 1964 about Vin, that gives some more details on that college football game (go to page 3):

The Boston University-Maryland game was played at Fenway Park. Scully was directed to the roof of the stadium. There he met his engineer, who had rigged up a table for his equipment and had strung a 60-watt bulb on a pole for illumination, in case light was needed later on. Scully was given a head set, a microphone, a program, 50 yards of cable and the run of the roof.

...

"Yet the cold and everything else turned out to be another lucky break. I didn't say anything to Red during the game about the conditions we were working in. I didn't have time, for one thing, but for another I thought it was routine and that I hadn't known about things like roofs because I was inexperienced. And when I got back to New York I was so excited about having had the chance to do the game that I didn't say anything about it then, either. But the Boston University officials wrote a note to CBS apologizing for not having a booth for us and for having to stick us up on the roof. Well, now, this impressed Red—not so much the fact that the conditions were bad but that I hadn't said anything about it, that I hadn't complained, and that I had gotten the job done. He was very pleased. A couple of weeks later he called me up again and said, 'Want to do another game for us?' I said, 'Yes, sir.' He gave me the Yale-Harvard game.

[Alex41592]

High chopper but not high enough back to Wilson who throws to first. Giants hold on and win 5-4.

[Tripon]

game over.

[Dave60]

Back in March, in an established rite of spring, I listened to an NPR CD of interviews between Red Barber and NPR host Bob Edwards. One of the stories was about the initial hiring of Vin Scully It is virtually word-for-word the same as this interview. Apparently Barber had his stories nailed. Or is there a chance that Bob Edwards and Larry King have been confused?

Either way, it's a great interview and I always enjoy welcome a new ball season with it.

[Tripon]

If the giants somehow make the playoffs, Brian Wilson will blow at least 3 saves in one series.

[Joey Amarante]

why r u reding this, go vote 4 matt kemp.

[Craig88USC]

What a sweet story on the hiring of Vin Scully. Let's get him another championship, Dodgers. At least 1 more, hopefully 2 or 3 before he turns off his mike for the final time.

[Doug Minnick]

Thanks for that ,Jon and Stan (where have you been lately, Stan?).

Reading Barber say "There is nobody close to Scully" actually brought tears to my eyes.

We are so lucky to have Vin Scully. I think an exception should be made to Rule 8 in this regard.

[Alex41592]

Mark Reynolds with the walk-off base hit to defeat the Padres.

Pablo Sandoval with a grand slam.

Shane Victorino goes 4 for 5 with a HR, 4 RBI's and 5 runs scored.

Cristian Guzman went 0 for 4.

Matt Kemp was off.

Going to be tough to win this vote.

[Craig88USC]

Alex - They're nothing but desperate showoffs. The Midwest City Bison will prevail
without fail (to quote the great John Prine) . In other words, he'll find a way. ; )

[underdog]

From tonight's MiLB recap of the Isotopes game(s):

After having been rained out twice in as many days, it was Jamie Hoffmann that delivered objects from the sky, homering twice as the Albuquerque Isotopes. split a pair of games against the Nashville Sounds.

--

Doesn't look like Elbert fared all that well though they won the game and always hard to tell given PCL nuttiness.

[KG16]

Eric - I love this line from the SI article:

"Everybody" probably is not a mathematically precise description of the number of people who listen to Scully's broadcasts, but it is close enough.

That about sums it up.

[underdog]

NY Times story for tomorrow's paper: "Torre’s Distraction-Handling Skills Are Tested Again"

http://bit.ly/ULOFy

Nothing really earth-shattering here, re Torre and Manny, but interesting to get NY perspective and see how Torre has reminded Manny of the media crunch about to hit them in NY.

[Craig88USC]

Manny's gonna need to supply a heck of a lot of tickets to his family members and friends in Washington Heights. Look who's back...Manny's back in town...Hometown!

[john hale]

Great story about Scullys hiring. And after spending three days last week at the Sheraton Universal (on my Dodger Thoughts book signing pilgrimage) I wish I had been there for the Larry King show back in the day. It looks like the kind of place that was hip about 25 years ago. Now its full of people from Seattle going to Dodger games and Universal Studios.
It was cool to meet the man behind Dodger Thoughts and get family members to buy some books. I didn't buy the shade seats like I thought I did, and the M's winning wasn't what I hoped for (but OK to my kids) but seeing this team in person was still alot of fun. Some day the Dodgers will get up here to Safeco. But in the meantime thanks to the miracle of the internet tubes I get vinny and my kids now have some idea who he is.

[Craig88USC]

Interesting coincidence that Vin Scully and Manny Ramirez both grew up in the same neighborhood. I bet they've talked about those mean streets of Manhattan....

[Craig88USC]

DODGERS 52-30

NL Next 7 - Wishing to be up in Dodger Heaven (words & music by Hollywood Joe)

SanFrisco . 45-37 . 7
Philadelph . 43-37 . 8
SaintLouis .. 45-39 . 8
ColoradoRs. 43-39 . 9
MilwaukeeB . 43-39 . 9
ChicagCubs . 41-39 .10
FloridaMarlins 43-41 .10

; )

[berkowit28]

The rookie Dodgers team in the AZL has three Italinate pitchers on its staff - Fructuoso, Feliciano and Dignelli - all of whom pitched yesterday. Fructuoso, indeed. What a fruity name for a pitcher (or a position player, for that matter). He was the starter. He has an awfully strange first name to go with that mellifluous surname : Beyker. Looks Turkish or something, sounds like Baker, is probably just one of those silly made-up names. I hope it wasn't because his parents couldn't decide between Beyson and Jaker, or Jayson and Bonker, or we'll never hear the end of it if he ever comes up to the bigs. Beyker Fructuoso - just rolls off the tongue, doesn't it?

[ishXdavid]

off topic: Just saw the highlight of Nomar's return to Fenway where he had to take a moment to collect himself before stepping into the box. I really wish he could have gotten a similar welcome at Dodger Stadium. I'm ashamed as a baseball fan that he didn't.

[jasonungar]

I can't get over the whole Ronaldo thing, imagine dodger stadium packet, plus 30, 000 people just there to see Manny when he had his little press conference thing..and we act crazy, imagine what "Real Madrid thoughts" must be like when a keeper blows a save

[underdog]

It would've been nice if Nomar had gotten a bigger ovation when he came back to LA, but to be fair, he came up with the Red Sox and played in Boston for 9 (!) seasons, so it's really not in the same (er, pardon the expression) league. Many of his finest memories were in Boston and he was there a long while.

Not that he didn't have some great memories in LA, too, but a much shorter stint. (Still, a more unilateral ovation would've been nice in LA, definitely.)

[DBrim]

Nomar did less in LA to warrant booing than he did in Boston. And yet...

[68elcamino427]

Having the great fortune of hearing Vin all my life ... today I have learned to savor the moments ... go Vin go!

Thank you Vin Scully for so much enjoyment and listening pleasure.
Will there ever be another like you?

[DaDoughboy]

Thanks for the good night treat Jon. I was expecting something about the upcoming road trip or a blurb about the Mets...but this was just plain neat. Being as I'm sick as a dog and can't sleep, anything to brighten my mood helps. As Vin would say...I'm definitely day-to-day...but aren't we all?

[dodger tony]

Not to kick a man's tires when he's down but...let's hope that Randy Johnson's rotator cuff takes several months to calm down. Can you imagine if Sandoval makes the NL team? It will be the youngest NL All star team in human history. That does not bode well for a 5 all game in the 17th.

[regfairfield]

Older folk are known for their limitless energy and stamina.

[Bumsrap]

Thank you Jon and Stan.

[nsxtasy]

Thanks, Jon, for posting the Red Barber interview.

I can still hear Red Barber's soft southern drawl. I grew up listening to him broadcast the Yankee games with Mel Allen and the Scooter, Phil, Rizzuto, before the Mets came along (with Bob Murphy, Ralph Kiner, and Lindsey Nelson). Barber was the best of his time, just as Vin has been since then.

[nsxtasy]

>> Maybe Joe will let Chad pinch hit this year. Just kidding.

I believe he already used Stults as a pinch hitter. Why not Bills?

Especially when the bench is thin from carrying a 13-man pitching staff. Even more so when we keep playing into extra innings.

[356man]

Thanks for the story about Vinnie, Jon--it was a great read. There will indeed never be another like him, just like Chick Hearn.

[Ken Noe]

Listening to Collins and Lyons the other day going on in typical FOX style, I wondered, wouldn't it be great if they gave Vin fifty tapes of young guys doing local stuff around the country and said 'which ones do you like?"

[Bob Hendley]

He has used the other Eric as PH, too.

[Dave60]

From Ken Rosenthal at Fox Sports via MLB Trade Rumors, "Dodgers would likely have to part with Chad Billingsley or Clayton Kershaw to obtain Halladay." Ned, please say no.

[martz]

Ken Noe at 6:04 a.m.:
". . . wouldn't it be great if they gave Vin fifty tapes of young guys doing local stuff around the country and said 'which ones do you like?"

It would be even greater if someone gave Vin fifty blank tapes and had him fill them up with his experiences and memories and so on; almost like an oral history project.

We get some of it in snippets during broadcasts, obviously, but I can't tell you what I'd pay for the long, rambling narrative version.

[My most valued posession is a set of tapes (now CDs) I talked my granddad into doing for me near the end of his life. He was one of those old-fashioned unexpressive men and a funny thing happened: I know a great deal more about him from the tapes than from him directly.]

[CanuckDodger]

Billingsley and Kershaw are safe. No need to worry about them leaving. I doubt Halladay is going any where either.

[Old Dodger Fan]

Great interview. I mostly know Red Barber from the weekly NPR interviews he used to do. I can sure hear his voice in the interview. At the very beginning when he said, "That's right". He said that so often to Bob Edwards.

I grew up listening to Vinny on KFI. What great memoires and yet he's still braodcasting. What a treasure.

[Jon Weisman]

Just to clear up Dave60's comment from last night, I did not confuse King with Edwards. But I think Barber knew this story cold because he told it a lot - including in one of his books.

[nsxtasy]

There's been a lot of trade talk about Halladay. Needless to say, he's one of the very best starters in the game. He would be a HUGE addition to any team in baseball.

That being said, I can't see trading Bills or Kershaw for him. Both are still too young to be eligible for high salaries so they're a great bargain for the Dodgers to keep. And both still have even greater potential ahead of them, so their value - to the Dodgers as well as to any other team - is increasing rapidly over time.

Hey, how come Kershaw doesn't have a nickname?

[nsxtasy]

I think the Jays would trade Halladay for the right deal. The right deal would probably consist of a combination of 1-2 MLB players (starting pitchers or starting position players) and 3-5 minor league prospects, including 1-2 really top ones. I don't think a trade like that would make sense for the Dodgers, but it might for a team that is willing to trade off some of its future for the ability to win RIGHT NOW.

[Michael]

Great story Jon, thanks for posting that.

[underdog]

Sorry, I always stop reading after I see "Ken Rosenthal says" (and now "Buster Olney wonders" too). Whatever comes next is usually made up.

[jpg]

Thanks Jon, timing timing timing is the key to life.

[Kevin Lewis]

One thing that Fox taught me on Saturday's broadcast was that our bullpen is overworked...and they said it over and over again, with no real data or comparisons to other teams.

[Rob McMillin]

There is nobody close.

What a heartwarming story. And so seemingly random, too. Yet, talent will out.

[tleonp]

Wonderful post, Jon. It's the kind of career-beginning that unfortunately couldn't happen today in a million billion zillion years.

[underdog]

Maybe someday someone will write about how Joe Buck got his start, and heart cockles will be warmed everywhere.

[tleonp]

Underdog...
Like Chip Carey and Skip Carey, Joe Buck was in the "son"business when he was discovered.

Just came across this bit of idiocy from Joe Morgan on his chat today:

"The name of the game, people always want to forget, for pitchers is wins and losses. If you beat a team 1-0, as he did recently, or 5-4, it doesn't matter. If you win, that goes on the team's side of the victory column. I'm not so much for a guy that has a low ERA and a losing record. That tells me that the other pitcher pitched better than he did, because that team scored more runs."

This is obviously stupidity at it's highest order. Where's Ken Tremendous and FJM when you need them?

[tleonp]

Of course, when you're in the "son" business, you're kind of guaranteed not to fail.

[Michael]

Hey Joe, have you ever heard of poor run support?

I've never liked Joe Morgan and this is a big reason why.

[Eric Stephen]

How are the Michael Jackson proceedings affecting any of you people in downtown LA?

[SaMo]

"Hey, how come Kershaw doesn't have a nickname?"

Nxstasy:
I've been calling Kershaw "The Claw" for a while now for two reasons. First, it combines the first two letters of his first name and the last two letters of his last name. Second, he's got that devastating hook.

[Eric Stephen]

Since The Minotaur seems destined not to last, I'm partial to Clay K, but that's not really a nickname I guess.

[Jon Weisman]

I kind of liked Minotaur.

[Eric Stephen]

Perhaps, since the nickname is now available, and Kershaw brings the heat at 93.8 MPH on average, he can go by the King of Pop.

[DL]

I hope Michael Schur comes out of retirement just for that Joe Morgan quote. That really is remarkable stupidity.

[silverwidow]

nsxtasy:

FYI - Billingsley will become a multi-millionaire this offseason (first year of arbitration).

[Dave60]

"But I think Barber knew this story cold because he told it a lot - including in one of his books."

Jon, I agree that seems quite reasonable. It's a sign of a good storyteller (think Ronald Reagan) that he has the story and the key ponts down pat. Waking a good storyteller in the middle of the night and givng him a podium is akin to waking Manny Mota in the middle of hte night and giving him a bat.

[bhsportsguy]

Let's see you are a majority of one ot the top sports franchises in the country, you ran a very successful business and then you do this.

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/home/display/John_Henry/

[dodgerkramer]

Jon/Stan: Thanks so much for sharing the King/Barber interview. It was just a great read.

Embarrassing, yet sort of funny, story about Vin and me...

Opening series of 2007 season, my wife and I drove to Milwaukee to see the Dodgers. By chance (and Travelocity), we ended up staying at the same hotel as the Dodgers.

We knew Vin had made the trip because we heard him announce the opening game on TV (we attended games 2 and 3). So all the way up, we're thinking, wouldn't it be great to see Vin, knowing there was no chance.

So, wouldn't you know it, the FIRST PERSON we see as we're boarding the hotel elevator? None other than the Greatest Broadcaster in Baseball History.

I had my head turned when the elevator door opened, but heard my wife yell, "VIN????!!!!???"

I quickly jerked my head around to see a familar, somewhat feeble Vin Scully. He was shorter than I expected.

The only words I could muster: "OH MY GOD!!!"

Vin said, "Well hello! How are you doing? Glad to see you!!!" Like we had known each other for years.

With that, the redhead walked away and my wife and I went to our room, speechless.

We didn't see him the rest of the trip, and I'm still embarrassed about my only encounter with the Great One.

[Ken Noe]

If anyone needs a nickname, it's Ethier. Maybe he can borrow one of Loney's.

[fanerman]

I still like the MInotaur.

[fanerman]

I also refer to Clayton as "Claw" (the first 2 letters of Clayton and last 2 letters of Kershaw).

That mostly came out of me trying to come up with Street Fighter related nicknames for the Dodgers. Claw is the nickname for Vega/Balrog . It goes along with M. Bison for Kemp.

[Michael Green]

Great story from Barber. Vin talked about the "interview" with Rickey, who basically told him he needed to date someone and get married. Connie Desmond was interviewed and talked about how they trained Vin, and it was essentially what Red said--they would beat him up on the air when they had to, but it wasn't often. Vin has said that he would say something on the air and Red would say, "Young Scully ..." and correct him.

By the way, the person Red referred to was one of his assistants, John Derr, who went on to broadcast the Masters tournament for something like 60 years.

[Jon Weisman]

Thanks, Michael.

[Landonkk]

Sorry if this was discussed previously, but I thought that it was cool that the Dodgers and Angels have apparently "teamed up" in pushing Kemp and Figgins for the final vote. Both teams websites have pictures and links with the two. This might help push Bison to the top....

[Eric S]

Vin Scully is a genuinely nice man. Back in the early 70s, in my teenage years, I went to a Laker game at the Forum. As always, my buddy and I snuck down from our nosebleed seats to the good seats for the last 5 minutes of the game (which you can't do at Staples, which is one reason among many that I don't care for that arena). Vin is sitting front row with Dr. Kerlan. Game ends, we're filing out, and I see Vin walking right behind me. I didn't want to bug him with an autograph request, or even a handshake request, so, hands stuffed in my pockets, I turned around and said to Vin, "Hey, Mr. Scully, I just wanted to let you know how much I've enjoyed your work." Or, at least something like that, 'cause I was shaking like a leaf when I said it. Vin sticks his hand out, pretty much insisting we shake hands, and says, "Why, thank you very much. That's so kind of you to say that! It's very nice to meet you!" I didn't remotely get the sense that he was being phony or artificial, just a very kind, gracious gentleman.

[bhsportsguy]

I thought Jon was referring to what is going on at Staples but then I read further.

[OhioVic]

Thanks for sharing this story about Vin Scully, Jon.
It is a great read and I had not heard this story before.

I grew up south of Pittsburgh in the Monongahela Valley as a Pirate fan listening to Bob "The Gunner" Prince and, I guess due to the location of where I grew up, I had the fortune of being able to get games from all over the Eastern United States. So, growing up I would more than occassionally listen to Jack Buck on KMOX in St. Louis, Ernie Harwell on WJR in Detroit or Marty Brenneman on WLW in Cincinnati (who is still there) and could hear games from Boston, New York and Philly as well.

My only exposure to Vin before I moved to LA in the early 80's was during the World Series or Game of the Week with Joe Gargiola, but after moving there and listening to him for 13 seasons there, I would concur that there is no one like him - not even close.

I wonder if he realizes how beloved he is in Southern California. He probably doesn't want to even think about it.

[Craig88USC]

How do our '09 starters rank with a bat in their fragile hands?
My guess without peekin' (I'm too lazy this morn) -

1 - Stultsy
2 - LBJMac (figure it out ; ))

3 - Wolfy
4 - Uncle Miltie
5 - ChadB

6 - Kershton
7 - Dreamer
8 - HiroKi

[68elcamino427]

The Minotaur - A young monster of a pitcher - just how did this mythical beast arrive on the scene so quickly? And where did he come from? Dallas - anyone can see that's a made up story to cover the truth.

The Minotaur has a "Claw" ... "Public Enemy #1"

What a talent.

[Craig88USC]

Andre "No Single" Eithier
Dinger 'Dre
The Critic
Yoga
E9
...(I'm ducking under the desk for that last one...;))

[Jon Weisman]

NPUT

[underdog]

I was calling Clayton Kid K since it has a double meaning. But it's not particularly clever. At all. But it's catchy!

Loved the Minotaur but he's no longer mythical so i thought I should stop calling him that. Maybe not. Maybe Ethan Martin or Withrow will be The Minotaur II (The Quickening).

[underdog]

btw, tleon, I think you knew this, but I was being a bit facetious regarding Joe Buck...

[stan from tacoma]

Jon, thanks for the post. Obviously I have heard what you wrote, but I am glad you had the excerpt of Red's interview with Larry King transcribed for everyone to read. For those who thanked me in the comments, all I can say is, you are welcome. It is actually a pleasure for me to send gems like the King-Barber tape to Jon and then have him share those treasures with the people on this site.

Stan from Tacoma