50 games of Manny Ramirez thoughts
I guess I had something to say about it all ...
May 6, 2009
“Recently I saw a physician for a personal health issue. He gave me a medication, not a steroid, which he thought was okay to give me. Unfortunately, the medication was banned under our drug policy. Under the policy that mistake is now my responsibility. I have been advised not to say anything more for now. I do want to say one other thing; I've taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons.
“I want to apologize to Mr. McCourt, Mrs. McCourt, Mr. Torre, my teammates, the Dodger organization, and to the Dodger fans. LA is a special place to me and I know everybody is disappointed. So am I. I'm sorry about this whole situation.” – Manny Ramirez
How do I feel?
I feel that this is one of the many imperfect things that happens in an imperfect sport. Everyone and everything that I love is flawed. I get frustrated, annoyed, angry, depressed. Over time, I love some a little less, others the same despite it all.
For the Dodgers on the field, if it wasn't going to be this, it might easily have been (or still might be) something else. Manny Ramirez is a critical component of the 2009 Dodgers, but he's not the only component. (Aaron Gleeman offers a statistical analysis at Circling the Bases.) And the cushion the Dodgers built up in the National League West matters. Still, things will get tougher. That's disappointing, but as a passionate follower, I'll still be very interested in seeing how the team responds.
As for the man? Even if we didn't know this would happen, we knew he was flawed. I was prepared to risk the bad for the good and judge him at the end. Now, he has broken the rules -- How, specifically? We're still learning -- and he's going to pay the price (figuratively and literally, to the tune of more than $7 million in salary). After the punishment runs its course, we start over. (Update: No, Bill Plaschke, Ramirez should not be kicked "out of baseball." Do we change the rules just for him?)
The Dodgers are not virgins in dealing with players who have tested positive for banned substances. Today's news is a big deal, but it's no watershed moment.
The game is greater than any one person, good or bad. I've just seen too much to be up in arms.
* * *
... Blake swung and missed at a slider, then took one for a ball. And finally, finally, a big swing but a soft blow, a pop fly to left field. The Dodgers fell, 11-9. They fell.
We start over again Friday. Is this game symbolic? For most of the season, the Dodger pitching has done the job. For most of the season, the Dodgers have done the job. For most of the season, the Dodgers have not come up short. Maybe that changes a little now. But the Dodgers don't figure to go quietly. ...
* * *
May 9, 2009
Some who aren't bitter over Manny Ramirez have valid reasons
No, I'm not angry at Manny Ramirez. No, that doesn't mean I want anarchy in sports and steroid needles in my children.
Bill Plaschke and Kurt Streeter of The Times each have new columns lamenting the insufficient moral indignation in Los Angeles over Ramirez's suspension for using a banned substance. They basically reach the same conclusion: that the people of this town don't care enough about cheating ballplayers and drug abuse, and that this apathy is bad for baseball and society.
I don't disagree with their anti-drug stances, but I do think they overlook a few things in their outrage.
The central point neither seems to fully appreciate is that Ramirez has been punished. He is suspended, he is losing millions, his legacy is forever and further tainted. Done. He hasn't gotten away with anything. The system worked, and there are many who, rather than being upset by this, are relieved by it. This isn't O.J. Simpson walking out of Lance Ito's courtroom or "'Til Death" getting renewed for another season on Fox. How upset is the entire city supposed to be when justice has been served?
Though he has calmed down somewhat since his rant on ESPN Thursday, Plaschke continues to suggest that Ramirez shouldn't be allowed back on the Dodgers roster even after his suspension is served. For someone who is ostensibly preaching fairness, Plaschke certainly seems to have a double-standard in place for Ramirez. At the risk of beating this point into the ground, Guillermo Mota continues to pitch for the Dodgers despite having gotten the same suspension in recent years as Ramirez has. Now, if Plaschke wants to run every last drug user out of baseball permanently on their first offense, that's his prerogative -- but then he should make that case. Instead, he just seems to want to single out Ramirez. His logic doesn't track -- not for the first time, some of his readers would say-- and that's at least partly why those readers are more angry at Plaschke than Ramirez.
Ramirez is not a lone deviant. He is one example of an absolutely enormous, pervasive drug culture in the game of baseball, and the fact is, baseball has punished Ramirez more severely than almost everyone else who has been doing what he did -- or worse. By the end of his suspension, Ramirez will have done his time, while countless others like him will have gotten away with murder, so to speak. That doesn't excuse what Ramirez did, but it goes a long way toward explaining why all of Los Angeles isn't bringing torches to his home.
In the end, it's pretty obvious that reaction to Ramirez's suspension covers an entire spectrum. There are plenty of people who share the disgust of Streeter and Plaschke on The Times' very own letters page, there are plenty who think Ramirez was stupid, there are plenty who think that the punishment fits the crime, and yes, there are those who think that pragmatically, there are worse things to worry about than athletes using drugs to improve their performance. (All those boos for Barry Bonds that everyone brings up? I'm pretty sure a lot of those were just because he was the best player on the Giants and was generally unpleasant, and had nothing to do with his off-field activities.)
I want baseball to be a clean sport. And for that reason, as saddened as I was for what it meant for the Dodgers and their near-perfect start to 2009, I was quite at peace with Ramirez's suspension. It's a positive. And when he comes back to play for the Dodgers, I might cheer him a little less, but I won't boo him. I don't boo anyone, but even if I did, if I were to boo Ramirez, I'd have to boo so many others that I'd probably have to stop going to games altogether. And do I really gain something from that?
For those who choose to cheer Ramirez because they love him, there's no mystery. They lovehim. When love is involved, it's not easy or even logical to expect that people will use that person to send a grandiose moral message. That's why Andruw Jones gets booed and Ramirez doesn't. And since Ramirez is still part of the Dodger family, at least through the end of the 2009 season, it makes sense that some members of the family will want to help him back on his feet after he has done his time.
You can love Ramirez and still be against drugs in baseball. Hypocritical? Irrational? Yeah. What were you expecting?
I mean, really. You want to send a message to society, and you want sports fans to be your messenger? You'd better have a Plan B.
* * *
May 12, 2009
... It was May when things were going well, and it's May now that things are going badly.
The Dodgers are battling now, but there are fundamental strengths to this team. Playing one of their worst games of the season, on the road against last year's champions, the Dodgers still put the tying run on base in the ninth inning.
No guarantees. No guarantees of success, no guarantees of failure. It's a long season played one play at a time. Blip, slump or tailspin, I don't know. But we're still just getting started. ...
* * *
May 18, 2009
Let's face it: The longer Juan Pierre bangs the ball like he has been this season -- particularly in the last 10 games -- the more likely it is that he could complete the improbable journey from the bench to the All-Star Game in two months.
Not only is a .476 on-base percentage and .554 slugging percentage -- .531 and .674 in his last 10 games, with seven doubles in his last 37 at-bats -- hard to ignore, but Pierre presents himself as almost the ultimate counterpoint to the performance-enhancement cloud that hovers over baseball. While no one expects Pierre to keep playing like an MVP, if he can keep up a large portion of this output, he could find himself at the heart of both a statistical and sentimental All-Star campaign.
I'm not trying to suggest that being an All-Star is a be-all, end-all milestone, but it would certainly represent quite a turn of events.
If you think I'm unhappy that Juan Pierre has played extraordinary baseball for the Dodgers since Manny Ramirez was suspended, you've got me pegged all wrong. But that doesn't mean I'm ready to assume that the 31-year-old outfielder has suddenly elevated his game.
Pierre's batting average on balls in play in 2009 is .431, more than 100 points above his career level. So gravity is just waiting to have an effect. Beyond that, I still don't find the 83 plate appearances significant enough to declare a transformation. In 2007, for example, Pierre posted an .801 OPS over 86 plate appearances from April 16 to May 5. Not only does that essentially represent his peak performance as a Dodger before 2009, but in the aftermath, he went back to being plain old Juan Pierre.
You hear some scuttlebutt about a change in approach, but you basically hear that every time a player goes on a hot streak -- so it's hard not to be skeptical that it really means anything. ...
* * *
May 25, 2009
That was quick: Manny Ramirez's suspension is 33% done
When Will Ohman struck out Seth Smith to end the sixth inning of today's game in Colorado, the first third of Manny Ramirez's 50-game suspension -- 16 2/3 games -- was complete.
To that point, the Dodgers were 9-7 without Ramirez (who quietly began working out at Dodger Stadium today while the team was away). The very first inning of the middle third of Ramirez's layoff brought eight runs, boosting the team to a 10-7 record since Suspension Day, with all but four of those games coming outside the National League West.
The Dodgers had a 6 1/2-game lead in the division on the morning the big news broke. As of this moment, their lead is 7 1/2 games. ...
There have been blips -- collapses May 4 against the Nationals and Sunday against the Angels -- and as 10-run victories go, it's not as if today's win over Colorado was a thing of beauty. The Dodgers have lost two series against California rivals, the Giants and Angels.
But wasn't the team supposed to have fallen apart by now? And even if you didn't see the sky crashing, how many of you thought the last 17 games would be at least as agonizing as "starting at shortstop, Angel Berroa."
I wouldn't say all observers have become more tolerant. Wolves come out every time the Dodgers lose, attacking the weaknesses, picking at the supposed carcass. Every single time.
But there hasn't been nearly as much to feed on as many expected. I don't know how the next 17 games will go (reality check: Eric Milton is starting in Colorado on Tuesday), but it has been a relative breeze up to this point. Just as I said in the days before Ramirez's suspension, when the Dodgers were enjoying their record-setting home winning streak, I hope Dodgers fans are enjoying the good times. Manny Ramirez did not take the magic with him.
* * *
June 1, 2009
Prediction: Andre Ethier will outperform Juan Pierre in June
I think Andre Ethier will be more valuable to the Dodgers in June than Juan Pierre, mainly because one month of the opposite happening isn't enough to negate all the evidence that Ethier is a better player.
People have begun talking with some anxiety about what the Dodger lineup will be when the Manny Ramirez suspension ends, even though the suspension is not quite halfway over. For better or worse, the May performances by the Dodger outfield in his absence have an entire month to be sustained or erased.
I am completely pleased with how well Pierre has played in Ramirez's absence and certainly not rooting for his decline. But I am also not going to assume that he can maintain a supersonic level of play for another month. Even the Dodgers had concluded that Ethier was better. Is one month enough to change that?
True Blue L.A. reminds us that Ethier batted .462 in September 2008 (and Sandy Koufax batted .444 in July 1965!). I don't think Pierre's great month is more legitimate than Ethier's even greater month, just because Pierre's happened more recently. It's more likely that on both occasions, each was playing over their head, and those evaluating them should be able to step back and take the long view. The September 2008 and May 2009 Ethier is the same guy, working through the highs and lows of the game. Ethier has needed to make some adjustments lately, but I don't see any reason to assume he can't make them. Last year, he OPSed .643 in June and .835 in July -- all without Ramirez. For example.
I can't stop people from engaging in "What will happen on July 3" hypotheticals, but they're basically a waste of time. If Pierre significantly outperforms Ethier for the entire 50 games, then yeah, expect Pierre will stay in the lineup. If not, then expect a return to the pre-suspension status quo. Either way, the decision is predicated on more evidence than May 2009 can provide -- not to mention the idea that all four candidates will be healthy -- and there's not really much to discuss.
* * *
June 2, 2009
33 1/3 Dodgers at the 33 1/3 mark: Manny Ramirez (10)
Until May 7, Manny Ramirez was having a rather quiet MVP-caliber season. Reaching base half of your at-bats while slugging .641 is rather astonishing, yet because of his relatively modest six home runs and the overall success of his teammates, it wasn't as if Ramirez was receiving excessive attention.
Boy, did that ever change.
When he returns from his suspension to the Dodger lineup in July, everyone will be closely watching his condition and his performance, but it will be important not to draw conclusions too quickly. After 11 games this season, for example, Ramirez had no home runs and a .361 slugging percentage (before he went for six homers and .821 in his next 16 games). And his return will involve an even greater media circus than his midseason arrival in Los Angeles last year. I don't look forward to it.
Team PA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ EQA
Dodgers 120 .492 .641 1.133 195 .383
* * *
Never give up, never surrender
This Dodger team is never out of it. Ever.
After falling 90 feet short of coming back from a 3-0 ninth-inning deficit Monday, tonight the Dodgers bounded back from a 5-1 eighth-inning gap, coming away with a resounding 6-5 victory.
Los Angeles had only two hits -- a homer and double by Andre Ethier -- entering the eighth inning when Matt Kemp led off with a single off Tony Pena, in relief of a scintillating Dan Haren (who had three hits of his own). Two outs later, Pena gave up a single to Juan Pierre and then lost the strike zone, throwing eight consecutive balls to Rafael Furcal and Orlando Hudson to force in a run.
Daniel Schlereth subbed in for Pena. James Loney then blasted a 1-1 fastball to right-center field. Such loft, such wonderful loft. At first it looked like a grand slam, then it looked like it would get caught at the wall, but it settled nicely in between for a bases-clearing, game-tying, whoop-whooping double.
A wild pitch moved Loney to third base, and then Casey Blake lashed a single to left field to drive Loney in with the go-ahead run.
Jonathan Broxton, who had looked like he would have the night off, started off the ninth with three balls that each just missed the strike zone, but came back to shut down the Diamondbacks on the next 12 pitches.
The Dodgers end up gaining a game on all four of their National League West rivals and lead San Francisco by nine games, San Diego by 10, Arizona by 12 1/2 and Colorado by 14 1/2. The team has reached the halfway point of the Manny Ramirez suspension with a 15-10 (.600) record.
* * *
June 9, 2009
Manny Ramirez: What he didn't do
... "Whatever happened, that's in the past," he said. "I don't want to be a distraction to this team. I didn't kill nobody. I didn't rape nobody. That's it."
I haven't had any expectations that Ramirez is going to say anything worthwhile, so his reticence doesn't hit me sideways. I didn't count on him as a role model before, and I'm not about to start now.
However, I am eager to minimize the media circus surrounding his return, so I do hope he gives mainstream reporters something that will satisfy them before July 3. His quote above is the kind of thing that will probably only egg them on. ...
* * *
June 11, 2009
Second member of Dodgers' 2008 NLCS squad gets 50-game suspension
... Will America rest until it gets an apology from (Pablo) Ozuna for blemishing the Dodgers' playoff run? Or, unlike the case of Manny Ramirez, do we accept that Ozuna gets his punishment and that the system worked the way it theoretically is supposed to, and move on?
This is what has bothered me about the whole "When is Ramirez going to come clean" drumbeat. Ramirez already apologized to fans and members of the Dodger organization, each of whom had the right to judge his sincerity. Beyond that, he understands that people are going to assume the worst if he doesn't make a case for innocence. If he's willing to have the public draw their own conclusions, then let's just draw our own conclusions. If we're so sure he's guilty, what exactly are we waiting for him to say?
* * *
June 22, 2009
Manny Ramirez deserves his rehab assignment
Let me get this straight. Manny Ramirez was suspended from the major leagues for 50 games. And now people are upset that he will play in minor-league games before his 50-game major-league suspension is up?
I'm sorry, but you've got to be kidding me.
First, this isn't a Ramirez-only rule. Every suspended MLB player has the right to a rehab assignment. J.C. Romero pitched in five minor-league games before returning from his 50-game suspension.
Romero isn't exactly a nobody; he's an important part of the National League East-leading Phillies' bullpen. His rehab assignment, in which he allowed runs in two of his five outings, helped prepare him to begin his 2009 major-league season with six consecutive scoreless games. Where was the outcry then?
Second, if Ramirez were able to come back to the majors after a 50-game absence at full strength without a rehab assignment, no one would have a beef, right? So what are people really upset about? That he's actually going to be appearing on a minor-league field?
No, they're upset because they think Ramirez is getting special treatment, when in fact nothing of the kind is happening.
These games are nothing more than workouts for Ramirez. Saying Ramirez shouldn't get to play in any minor-league games while serving a major-league suspension is just like saying he should have been banned from any form of exercise since May 7.
This argument I'm making is not about Ramirez being a Dodger. I fully support any major-leaguer getting a rehab assignment at the end of a suspension -- precisely because the alternative doesn't make sense. The alternative calls for either a) the player doing the rehab after the suspension, thus effectively increasing the suspension beyond the agreed-upon term, or b) the player being forced to rush back before he's ready, which also effectively increases the punishment. It isn't fair.
The punishment for Ramirez's violation is a 50-game suspension from the major leagues plus a loss of salary. That's the punishment, and it's already severe. Don't try to change the punishment after the fact.
* * *
June 23, 2009
Before anyone accuses Dodger fans of hypocrisy ...
Not every Dodger fan booed Barry Bonds. Here were the reasons for those who did boo:
1) He played for the Dodgers' top rival, the San Francisco Giants.
2) He was the best player for the Dodgers' top rival.
3) He had a lousy personality.
4) He was assumed to have taken performance-enhancing substances.
I say this with complete honesty: It's always been my belief, long before Manny Ramirez became a Dodger, that more people booed Bonds for reasons 1, 2 and 3 than for reason 4. They booed him for the same reasons they booed Pete Rose in the 1970s. They booed him for the same reasons the best Dodger players get booed up in San Francisco.
Put it this way: You could bring any other drug-tainted ballplayer to Dodger Stadium, and I don't think he'd get the treatment Bonds got.
There may be some hypocrites in the Dodger Stadium stands in July who cheer Ramirez despite drugs, even though they booed Bonds because of drugs, but observers should be very careful before painting an entire city with the same brush, one that only the minority deserves.
And for that matter, people should think twice before they get all high and mighty over whatever hypocrites there are. Most people go to Dodger games to be Dodger fans, not arbiters of morality. That's always been the case. And I seriously doubt it's different at any other ballpark in America.
Update: Some commenters have correctly brought up a No. 5: the perception that Bonds was getting away with something, in contrast to the fact that Ramirez got punished for his transgression.
Also, though I felt it was implied, I should be clear that I fully expect some at Dodger Stadium will boo Ramirez.
* * *
... Ramirez had not planned to give any interviews today -- but he did. From Tim Korte of The Associated Press:
... One of the first questions was about whether he used steroids.
"I'm not talking about it anymore," he said. "I already said what I'm going to say. I'm here to do my rehab, you know, and [go] to the game and get a couple at-bats and get back to the big league team." ...
* * *
June 28, 2009
Manny Ramirez, 'Sports Night' and family
... I've been mulling over the frustration that Bill Plaschke has over the fact that it isn't looking like Dodger fans, by and large, are bringing out the hatchet for Manny Ramirez as he returns from his suspension. I don't dismiss that frustration -- but I'm hoping those who share it might see the other side.
Plaschke (and others, certainly) believe that the Dodgers and their fans are rewarding cheating behavior by letting Ramirez off easy. That's a big-picture view, but I think there's an even bigger picture he is missing. ...
... Ramirez is going to get it with both barrels almost everywhere he goes, starting Friday in San Diego. He is going to get ripped up, down and sideways. He is going to be subject to taunting wherever he goes outside his home base -- consider this, for example -- and will have the duty to ignore it. It simply doesn't make sense for Plaschke to be so shocked and appalled that Ramirez's adopted family in Los Angeles won't do the same.
Plaschke, obviously, doesn't think of Ramirez as family -- in his mind, Ramirez isn't worthy of being the family doormat. But whether Plaschke likes it or not, thousands in Los Angeles do. And thousands have made their peace with him. ...
.. I'd be angrier at Ramirez if I thought he were getting away with something. But despite Plaschke's preoccupation with cheers and limousines in Riverside -- as if being suspended from major-league baseball means you should have to travel by Greyhound -- Ramirez didn't get away with anything. He lost millions, he lost time off his career, he probably lost his chance at the Hall of Fame, and he lost whatever peace of mind he might have had in 29 other major-league cities. He was humiliated and will continue to be mocked, perhaps for the rest of his life. The main problem I have with Plaschke's columns on Ramirez is his lack of acknowledgment of this.
And so I ask, does it really matter if most people in Los Angeles don't bring the tar and feathers to the ballpark? If the message being sent is that hometown fans will cheer heroes who screw up -- well, that's a reality that began long before Manny Ramirez came on the scene, and one that he isn't going to change. ...
... If a family member of mine got in trouble, and got disciplined for being in trouble, and was going to be reminded of that trouble almost everywhere he or she went, I wouldn't need to pile on after it was all over. Bill, a lot of us were upset over Manny, but a lot of us got over it over the past seven weeks.
It's fine to think Ramirez wasn't punished enough, but don't try to sell the idea that he hasn't been punished or won't continue to be punished. The world will still have a moral compass even if, in this case, the people of Los Angeles aren't the ones pointing due north.
Photo credits: May 6 photo by Alex Gallardo / Los Angeles Times, May 7 photo by Christine Cotter / Los Angeles Times, May 8 illustration by Gina Ferazzi/Los Angeles Times, image for May 9 by Allen J. Schaben / Los Angeles Times, photo of Juan Pierre by Joel Auerbach-US Presswire, photo of Andre Ethier by Alex Gallardo/Los Angeles Times, photo of Manny on Opening Day by Allen J. Schaben / Los Angeles Times, photo of Pablo Ozuna by Rob Carr/ AP Photo/File, Manny warming up and stretching by Christine Cotter / Los Angeles Times, bottom photo by Craig Fritz / AP
I remember booing Pete Rose in the '70's. And Johnny Bench, and Tony Perez, and Davey Concepcion, and Ken Griffey, and a bunch more I know I've left out. I still boo Joe Morgan.
Posted by: 356man | July 02, 2009 at 11:36 AM
I think it is insensitive to assume that OJ was guilty, and to treat that assumption as evidence of a system not working.
Posted by: craig wilcox | July 02, 2009 at 11:40 AM
nice trip down recent memory lane
Posted by: mrcourt123 | July 02, 2009 at 11:46 AM
Nice compilation! The Greatest Hits of Manny's Suspension.
Posted by: underdog | July 02, 2009 at 11:52 AM
The Manny and Dodger haters (same thing as far as I'm concerned) will be out in full force this entire trip. Brutal treatment in San Diego and Milwaukee but especially in New York City.
But his fans will watch closely because we know that he thrives on it...
pitchers beware, be very careful or be schooled by Manny.
The doubter's minds instantly changed.
The 2009 Los Angeles Dodgers widen the gap among their chasers. The wait is over.
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 11:53 AM
Crap. It's a clip show.
Posted by: Daniel Larusso | July 02, 2009 at 11:53 AM
Yeah, we were only missing Wayne and Garth doing the visual transition.
Posted by: Deuces are Wild | July 02, 2009 at 11:55 AM
I'll be in section 212 Friday night. Anyone else attending the big game?
Posted by: jLo | July 02, 2009 at 11:56 AM
I'll be there Saturday.
I understand they'll be giving away "Beat L.A." Beach Towels.
Me and my 8-year-old will be sporting Dodger gear.
Posted by: Deuces are Wild | July 02, 2009 at 11:58 AM
Meloan traded to Tampa Bay.
http://tinyurl.com/l2cgvs
Posted by: Jon Weisman | July 02, 2009 at 12:03 PM
I'll be at one or more of the games next week at Shea-- I mean, New York's new NL baseball stadium. Can't wait to hear the boos for Manny there.
Posted by: DL | July 02, 2009 at 12:03 PM
Deuces, Dueces Jr. & JLo - What fun you'll have.
Bring back a beach towel to burn!
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 12:04 PM
DL - It's only music to his ears. :)
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 12:05 PM
Weird, I'd forgotten all about Meloan.
I remember when I was excited about the prospects of hm as a Dodger. Now I'm excited about Lindblom, Elbert and a host of other guys instead.
Hah hah Daniel.
"Right about now, you're probably saying, 'Troy, I've seen every Simpson's episode, You can't show me anything new.' {menacing} Well, you got some attitude, Mister."
Posted by: underdog | July 02, 2009 at 12:09 PM
OT - ucladoger,
Saw Chapman pitch here in the DF during the WBC. Nice fluid motion and the ball got to the plate in a hurry.
Posted by: Bob Hendley | July 02, 2009 at 12:13 PM
Last day to vote 25 times for the O-Dog to start at second at the All Star game.
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 12:14 PM
Hey nice nifty rather important pick off move by Clayton yesterday.
He's the best in the league at that.
Actually tied with DBack Davis.
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 12:19 PM
It has never been fully determined that Manny used this drug to mask steroids. 15 test passes would seem to indicate another reason.
And, where is the outcry for athletes using illegal drugs as defined by law enforcement? Manny is hardly that worst person in the society of professional athletes, yet he is receiving the harshest public judgment.
Donte' Stallworth anyone?
Posted by: dalegribel | July 02, 2009 at 12:22 PM
I will be there Friday along with 19 friends...section 227, rows 10-14.
Posted by: Eric Stephen | July 02, 2009 at 12:24 PM
With or without dreads, Eric?
And amen, Dale.
Posted by: underdog | July 02, 2009 at 12:32 PM
Eric - Hope you all blend in with the 35,000 Padre fans. ; )
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 12:34 PM
Will be there Fri Section 317 Row 1
Go Blue
Posted by: Lord Skorpio | July 02, 2009 at 12:36 PM
I imagine they will be far from the only Dodger fans there for that one Craig. ;-)
Posted by: underdog | July 02, 2009 at 12:38 PM
Bob, the guy's arm is super elite. He was effortlessly in the high 90's at the age of 21 from the left side. He's going to get a ton of money.
Posted by: ucladodger | July 02, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Underdog - I think Petco seats a little over 45K --
So I left room for 10,000 or so of Eric's friends...; )
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 01:10 PM
Thanks, Craig.
I have a feeling that Dodger fans will outnumber Padre fans, or at least, be close to 50-50.
The Padres are having a crappy year (and team), and there's not a lot of people going to see them right now.
We shall see...
Posted by: Deuces are Wild | July 02, 2009 at 01:14 PM
Yeah, I think the Dodger fan to Padre fan ratio will be somewhere close to 1:1 tomorrow night.
Posted by: Eric Stephen | July 02, 2009 at 01:16 PM
Section 201 Row 5. Tomorrow.
I think there is going to be a real invasion tomorrow.
Posted by: delias man | July 02, 2009 at 01:20 PM
The new Sporting News just arrived with a big, good cover story on the Dodgers. No major surprises, but items worthy of note:
*Bills IS an ace, so there
*Blake and Kemp have become close friends, which makes Ned happy
*Ned cites the older players as the team leaders...
*...But Torre thinks his Bernie Williams is Loney.
*Torre repeats the overprivileged kids mantra, but admits "the toughest guy" to deal with was Pierre. Compares him to Ruben Sierra.
Posted by: Ken Noe | July 02, 2009 at 01:22 PM
Btw, didn't see this posted yet but Scott Ostler chimes in on Manny for the SF Chronicle today:
Players, fans don't care about steroids so ... welcome back, Manny!
http://bit.ly/phNo5
And there is a glaringly stupid error early in that piece. I guess the Chron can't afford copy editors any more.
I don't recall Scott Linebrink being a Dodger.
Posted by: underdog | July 02, 2009 at 01:25 PM
Row1?, row 5? Great seats, LS & DM!
Who do you guys know?
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 01:26 PM
I'll be there with Eric tomorrow night. I'm also taking along my girlfriend and her friend, who probably has no idea what's in store for her that night.
However, should we encounter any trouble from Padre fans, I have one name to counter them: Ken Caminiti.
Posted by: JJ24 | July 02, 2009 at 01:31 PM
Adrian is up with the bases full...
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 01:32 PM
Craig.
Its my wedding anniversary this weekend, so I bought the tickets on eBay in APR for this game because the other two are days games. I much prefer night if given the choice plus the wife gets fireworks. Low and behold all the things that have transpired the game now becomes baseball's ground zero tomorrow. Only paid 40 for two. You cant touch that price as of this morning on eBay/Stubhub etc. I got lucky thats all. Overlylucky because it happens to be row 1
Go Blue
Posted by: Lord Skorpio | July 02, 2009 at 01:32 PM
I wonder if that quote is really from Linebrink, who is on the White Sox now. Chicago hasn't played the Giants recently, so I doubt Ostler would've interviewed him. LA doesn't have any ex-SDer's in the pen. What an odd mistake. Who was Ostler interviewing - inquiring minds want to know!!!
Posted by: blue22 | July 02, 2009 at 01:42 PM
That SportingNews stuff is interesting too.
And James Loney is his Bernie Williams...which means, what? Professional hitter? Clubhouse leader? Classy guy? Plays the guitar?
And the Pierre/Sierra comparison - I don't know what about Sierra he is alluding to, but it doesn't sound flattering.
Posted by: blue22 | July 02, 2009 at 01:47 PM
I think I'm right by section 201 as well. I know I'm in Row 1. Should be great.
Posted by: oshea2002 | July 02, 2009 at 01:48 PM
Maybe he meant Mark Loretta (former Padre, starts with an "L")?
Posted by: Deuces are Wild | July 02, 2009 at 01:49 PM
blue22, yeah, it's a really odd goof. It makes me question the whole article, frankly, as a rush job. If Ostler really doesn't care, why should we read his article? How about finding someone with something more inspired to say. Oh well... I remember when I used to kind of like him.
(I don't remember his Vin Scully criticism but funny to bring that up now as a sign of what a martyr he is.)
Posted by: underdog | July 02, 2009 at 01:50 PM
I honestly think Joe's Loney-Bernie comparisons have had to do mostly with personality type. I think he's even said that in the past, that they have similar odd, goofy personalities.
Posted by: underdog | July 02, 2009 at 01:51 PM
Great, Lord. :)
...so what would you do, down 3-0, Adrian Gonzalez, batting 3rd with 24 HR's up with the bases full?
They pitched to him ...and he grounded sharply to 1st for the force at home.
His "protection" following him then hits into a 6-4-3 double play.
Even though it worked out for the Astros - I would argue that an intentional walk to force in the run was a safer choice.
Here's the 3 who are batting AFTER Adrian today in San Diego}
4th- 6th spots - Kouzmanoff (.237), Blanks (.214) and Adrian's brother (.183)
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 01:52 PM
oshea - i will be wearing Mannywood shirt tomorrow.
craig - just bought them from the Padres.
Money is no object for this special circumstance.
Posted by: delias man | July 02, 2009 at 01:52 PM
Oshea - I know you always get good seats with our SC connections.:)
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 01:55 PM
udog and blue22--pardon my bulletpoints.
Bernie and Loney--both quiet team leaders.
Sierra and Pierre--Sierra complained so much about not starting that the Yankees had to trade him. JP evidently complained a lot too, but Torre kept him.
Posted by: Ken Noe | July 02, 2009 at 02:01 PM
haha - right on Craig.
Posted by: oshea2002 | July 02, 2009 at 02:04 PM
The Mets really can't do anything right. Wow.
Posted by: oshea2002 | July 02, 2009 at 02:04 PM
Craig88USC: I wouldn't ever condone intentionally walking a guy with the bases loaded, certainly not a guy hitting .266.
Posted by: blue22 | July 02, 2009 at 02:09 PM
The game tomorrow night in San Diego is sold out. Now, it is a fireworks game but you know why it is sold out. It's going to be practically a Dodger home game tomorrow.
Posted by: Alex41592 | July 02, 2009 at 02:15 PM
As a diehard RedSox fan I can appreciate the excitement and aura of expectation Manny brings to fans, but after experiencing the highs and lows of "Manny being Manny" for eight years in Boston I can tell you that I'm glad he's gone and glad we have Jason Bay in his place. From a production standpoint it's been an even swap but Bay's professionalism and demeanor are so welcome from the sideshow that Manny brings with him. Manny cares naught about anyone but Manny and wouldn't even visit fans in the hospital with the rest of the Sox players when they would go. I admit that his hitting prowess made it easy at times to overlook his personal deficiencies but now I and everyone else here knows we have been further duped by a steroid-taking cheater.
So, as he comes back from his 50 game suspension, remember that he's as bad as Bonds, Clemens, ARod, Palmerio, Maguire, Piazza, Sosa and all the other cheaters who have distorted the record books and brought shame to a proud old game...and remember that your respect and adulation SHOULD be directed at legitimate superstars like Ken Griffey Jr., Derek Jeter, Jim Thome, Randy Johnson, Ichiro Suzuki and others like them that play they game the right way and refuse to cheat to get ahead.
I spent the first 10 years of my life living in L.A. and rooting for Walter Alston's Dodgers of Koufax, Drysdale, PeeWee Reese and others, and I'd really hate to see the Dodger legacy tainted by false affection for this BUM!
Stand up for the integrity of the GAME and don't cheer for Manny...your team proved over the past 50 games that it doesn't need to cheat to win! He quit on us when it was convenient for him and he'll quit on you the same way...you can count on it!
Posted by: AcePayday | July 02, 2009 at 02:18 PM
You're right Blue - Looking further, only 8 of his 24 dingers were hit out of Petco. I was just seeing those 3 kinda easy outs following him plus - didn't want to go down 4-3....
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 02:20 PM
WHO says Piazza cheated?
Posted by: delias man | July 02, 2009 at 02:21 PM
Condescension from a Boston fan...who would've guessed?
When was Piazza proven to be a cheater?
Posted by: Icaros | July 02, 2009 at 02:23 PM
Diehard RedSox fan - So your whole team is and has always been clean except for Manny. Who are you kidding?
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 02:25 PM
Delias,
Jeff Pearlman lobbed that grenade at Piazza in his book about Clemens.
Posted by: Eric Stephen | July 02, 2009 at 02:25 PM
I guess those 2004 & 2007 titles don't count for much.
Posted by: Eric Stephen | July 02, 2009 at 02:26 PM
Maguire?
At least I now have a definitive list of who is legitimate and worthy of my praise. Very helpful!
Posted by: blue22 | July 02, 2009 at 02:27 PM
I can understand suspicion, but to belong with that group of names he lists?
Posted by: delias man | July 02, 2009 at 02:27 PM
I can understand suspicion, but to belong with that group of names he lists?
Posted by: delias man | July 02, 2009 at 02:27 PM
Ace - So have you taken down your "tainted" red sox World Series banners yet, my friend?
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 02:28 PM
Eric - You beat me to it!
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 02:30 PM
A question I was gonna ask, too, Craig. ;-)
But I do appreciate the respectful (if a bit patronizing) post from Ace, and would certainly be happy to have Jason Bay on my team, as well.
I will only add to the comments above mine that I have heard plenty of good things both from current Dodgers and previous teammates about Manny that don't make him sound anything like a bad teammate, in fact quite the opposite. Now if you ask Curt Schilling you'll get a different answer of course, and he certainly hasn't always been that mature or easy to gauge but a lot of Dodgers and plenty of Red Sox have defended him as a teammate and gone on to point out instances where he went out of his way help them with hitting and so on.
He also seemed genuinely remorseful and embarrassed by his suspension.
He's been punished for it, a great deal. A lot of us are happy to move on.
But feel free to remain standing on your hollow, fragile pedestal.
Posted by: underdog | July 02, 2009 at 02:35 PM
Until I read the part about growing up in LA, I thought, wow, Peter Gammons is posting here.
Posted by: Ken Noe | July 02, 2009 at 02:44 PM
Oh, and Manny presumably cheated to help his team win. Ask Jeter about his team-first mentality when refusing to move his busted glove off shortstop a few years back. Or Griffey about holding the Mariners hostage by only accepting a trade to one team - the Reds.
Posted by: blue22 | July 02, 2009 at 02:45 PM
Well said, UD.
Look Ace, Why don't you keep your 2 banners and we'll keep our 1-2-3-4-5-6 !
AND let's see who get's the next one. Maybe we can play it out on the field... Fair enough???
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 02:49 PM
Jerry Maguire used steroids? NOOOOOOOO!!!!
I'm crushed. Say it ain't so.
Posted by: DL | July 02, 2009 at 02:56 PM
Some of the responses to the Boston commenter were not examples of treating some whom you disagree with respectfully.
Posted by: Jon Weisman | July 02, 2009 at 03:00 PM
"Jerry Maguire used steroids? NOOOOOOOO!!!!"
Renee Z: "You had me at HG."
Posted by: Ken Noe | July 02, 2009 at 03:01 PM
Now this is an interesting story: the Rangers had to borrow perhaps $15 million this week from MLB. Now the extended light failure-delay makes sense. (hat tip: MLB Trade Rumors).
http://tinyurl.com/kmtswb
Posted by: Ken Noe | July 02, 2009 at 03:05 PM
There is a bee delay in San Diego.
Posted by: Alex41592 | July 02, 2009 at 03:21 PM
"Look Ace, Why don't you keep your 2 banners and we'll keep our 1-2-3-4-5-6 !"
This isn't such a good way to brag considering that the Red Sox have won the world series 7 times to the Dodgers 6.
Posted by: gagne55 | July 02, 2009 at 03:22 PM
"Prediction: Andre Ethier will outperform Juan Pierre in June"
Ethier = .952 OPS
Pierre = .628 OPS
I'd say so.
Posted by: SG6 | July 02, 2009 at 03:23 PM
Weird, Alex. I know someone who is at that game, too.
Do any of the bees look like John Belushi, perchance?
Posted by: underdog | July 02, 2009 at 03:30 PM
Manny's OPS+ is now at 200. It was ~180 when he was suspended. Scoring in the NL has dropped.
Posted by: gagne55 | July 02, 2009 at 03:35 PM
I posted on here before that I am now resigned to the fact that cheating has been part of baseball for over 100 years and that I'm now not that upset about Manny or any other players. I think it is just the steroids era we have gone through - no different than the spit ball era.
There have been so many different ways that players and teams have cheated to gain an advantage and in most cases, it has been thought of as being part of the game - and excepted.
Look at binoculars in center field to steal signals, corked bats, emory boards, vaseline, scuffing the ball, pine tar on balls and bats, short stops giving pitch signals to batters, etc, etc, etc, and most recently, a batter raising his hand like he was going to call time out and causing a balk (well, maybe not really cheating).
It is a part of baseball to cheat - it always has and always will be.
So, baseball and the commissioners office let PEDs go for 10 or so years to get stats up, gain fan base and increase HRs. If we really knew who and how many players used drugs (including greenies) throughout the years, I think we would all be very shocked.
Big deal - move on, find something more important to argue about.
Posted by: Bleacher Seats | July 02, 2009 at 03:39 PM
I will also be going to tomorrows game. Section 130, 3 rows behind Manny. I have about 10 other friends making the trip down south as well.
Posted by: keg | July 02, 2009 at 03:39 PM
From reading various articles and items online today, it is clear that Juan Pierre is about to be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. In addition, NL MVP is in the offing because of the way he "kept the team afloat" in the wake of Manny's suspension. When the team is next in San Francisco, the little fella will apparently just walk across the bay to Hortons for some lobster, which he will scoop up by hand as he makes the trip. Next we will read that, like the Most Interesting Man in the World, he speaks fluent French...in Russian.
Did I miss something here? It seems to me that the little fella had a spectacular three weeks in May...followed by a spectacularly mediocre June. He's the 4th outfielder folks. It's what he was born to do. The most nonsensical thing I've heard is that he "deserves" to play every day, and that the Dodgers "owe it to him". Unfortunately for the Juan Pierre Marching and Chowder Society, in life, most often we actually get what we "deserve". Juan Pierre deserves a nice comfortable seat, somewhere between the sunflower seeds and the Starbursts.
Posted by: tleonp | July 02, 2009 at 03:47 PM
Fair enough...I expected some degree of animosity and denial. Almost everyone in RedSox Nation was in denial during the eight years he was here too. It's easy to overlook the bad stuff when Manny's knocking the heck out of the ball. Don't get me wrong, I am one of the "excusers". I loved what he did at the park but what he does or doesn't do outside of it is what began to turn me away from him. For instance, not once in eight years was it ever reported that Manny ever participated in any charitable event despite the fact he was asked to (and declined) more than once.Give back to the community? Not Manny!
As for how he got along with his teammates... when he pushed RedSox' Traveling Secretary Jack McCormack to the ground, sucker slapped Kevin Youkilis, didn't swing at 3 straight pitches when he was asked to pinch hit or repeatedly slacked off when he was being counted on to perform...NOT ONE of his teammates came to his defense, not one! When he laid down on the team at the end as a "negotiation ploy" to get out of his contract, even his best friend on the team, David Ortiz, wouldn't defend him.Just like with Pedro Martinez, people put up with him and overlooked the bad as long as he produced...me included.
As for Piazza and steriods, I admit he hasn't been officially "outed" (yet) by MLB, however an excerpt from Jeff Pearlman’s new book on Roger Clemens, which has sources claim that Piazza would confide in trusted members of the media that he used “limited doses” and has former major leaguer Reggie Jefferson say, “He’s a guy who did it, and everybody knows it. It’s amazing how all these names, like Roger Clemens, are brought up, yet Mike Piazza goes untouched.” Ok, circumstantial heresay so I respectfully pull Piazza's name out of the discussion, but it's hard to explain how a catcher drafted in the 62nd round could end up the all-time leader in HRs without help of "some sort".
Give back the WS pennants we won with Manny on the team? Not on your life because baseball is a team game and the Sox as a team won them.
Look, I'm not saying you shouldn't appreciate having Manny on your team because he IS a fearsome weapon...but out of respect for Griffey, et al.....just don't cheer him as some kind of returning hero that hasn't done anything wrong! If you are a true fan of Baseball you owe it to the game to keep this in perspective. Oh yes, if any other former or current members of the Sox are shown to have used, I'll feel the same way about them too!
BTW, I'd like nothing better than to see a Dodger/Red Sox World Series so keep playing well!
Posted by: AcePayday | July 02, 2009 at 03:49 PM
I'm a Dodger fan first, but I also like the Red Sox. I remember convincing my dad in making the 4 hour drive on a Wednesday in July (I was 12) to see Yaz's last game in Anaheim, only for him not to start and when he was called to pinch-hit late in the game the Angels walked him intentionally.
Anyway, I think Manny brings a lot to a team due to his personality and the excitement he brings. Jason Bay is too vanilla, and I know that the Red Sox fans don't really believe that Jason is an equivalent to Manny. There's still some bitterness there.
You always know when Manny is due up next, that even when we get annoyed that they announce on TV that "Manny is due 3rd mext inning", it is because we already know he's due up 3rd. There aren't too many players that do that. Maybe Pujols.
So Red Sox fans (me included), don't be bitter about Manny, your team certainly is good enough to get to the World Series this year, but it is quite possible that they'll face Manny and the Dodgers, with the Dodgers winning game 7 at home, thanks to Juan Pierre stealing home in the bottom of the 9th off Jonathan Papelbon in the All Star Game.
Posted by: Deuces are Wild | July 02, 2009 at 03:51 PM
Ace, genuinely do appreciate your candor and your thoughts, even if I disagree with (some of) them. Certainly it's a touchy issue here right now, especially since Bill Plaschke ranted about how Dodger fans should care more and protest more about Manny. I don't think any fanbase likes being told how they should feel or react to something, especially when that something is complicated.
I think Manny is a complicated guy too, maybe even with some social anxiety issues (several writers have wondered about that before), and besides that I cut him a little slack because he's not only a complicated human being but one who has made the same mistake that arguably the majority of ballplayers (or close to it) over the past 20 years have made as well. Even after he stopped doing whatever he was doing, he deserved to be caught and punished.
But I enjoy watching him play, find him a fascinating if flawed person, and am okay with having him on my team.
We can agree to disagree but appreciated your thoughts.
Posted by: underdog | July 02, 2009 at 04:11 PM
"BTW, I'd like nothing better than to see a Dodger/Red Sox World Series so keep playing well! "
Thankyou, That IS Fair enough. And may the best team win. Hopefully the Dodgers but if it's your Sox - I'll be the first to say congtats.
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 04:20 PM
Ron Artest to the Lakers: http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/15861966
Posted by: keg | July 02, 2009 at 04:23 PM
Gagne - That's true. I was thinking recently but you are right even 1955 is waaaay back. Good point.
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 04:26 PM
Fred Lewis playing left field is physical comedy at its purest form. If he isn't Buster Keaton, he is at least John Ritter.
Posted by: Icaros | July 02, 2009 at 04:30 PM
so, Artest is going to be the Rodman to Kobe's MJ? Does that make Gasol Pippen?
Posted by: KG16 | July 02, 2009 at 04:30 PM
Jon - Our Boston guest's name is AcePayday. Tha't why I referred to him as Ace for short. That's all. : )
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 04:31 PM
Cardinals have the bases loaded and nobody out. A run has already scored.
1-0 Cardinals Bottom 1.
Posted by: Alex41592 | July 02, 2009 at 04:33 PM
Zito walks in another run. 2-0 Cardinals.
Posted by: Alex41592 | July 02, 2009 at 04:36 PM
walk to molina
STL 2
SF 0
bases still juiced
no outs.
Posted by: Lord Skorpio | July 02, 2009 at 04:37 PM
Fielders choice force out at second makes it 3-0 Cardinals.
Posted by: Alex41592 | July 02, 2009 at 04:38 PM
STL 3
SF 0
1 out two on
Posted by: Lord Skorpio | July 02, 2009 at 04:38 PM
Cards settle with three in the first.
Posted by: Alex41592 | July 02, 2009 at 04:41 PM
Good start. Get the split, Cards.
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 04:42 PM
I could talk myself into Artest as a Laker, even if he's a little crazy.
Posted by: Eric Stephen | July 02, 2009 at 04:51 PM
Omar: Re your comment on the last thread, in Yahoo's 5x5, Chad ranks at 128. For one soul who you could not remember and so did not name, Haren ranks as no. 2 [2nd best player in all of Yahoo's 5x5 fantasy baseball]. For some others that you couldn't think of, Chris Carpenter is 26. Gallardo is 51. Javier Vazquez is 57. Johnny Cueto is 63. Josh Johnson is 67. Matt Cain is 69. And for one closer to Chad, Ted Lilly is 122.
Oswalt is 781. I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole. Beckett is 174. Now back to Oswalt, surely, there is someone better in the free agent pool. See if my man Ricky Romero is available [he's only 37% owned and is no. 150]. Other candidates would be Happ [189], Mazzaro [215], and Richmond [230]. If it's a W only league, I'd even try Joel Pineiro. In any event, as I said, surely someone must be available that's better than 781. And if you can drop a batter and hold onto Oswalt to see whether he rights his ship over the next month and a half, then so much the better.
blue22: You said:
"Oh, and Manny presumably cheated to help his team win. Ask Jeter about his team-first mentality when refusing to move his busted glove off shortstop a few years back. Or Griffey about holding the Mariners hostage by only accepting a trade to one team - the Reds."
What's wrong with Griff? How much loyalty is one to have towards the team that is trading you? And it isn't called "holding hostage" but instead one's use of a bargained-for contract provision.
Lastly, speaking of busted gloves, seems to me that the same people who speak ill of Jeter are the same souls who said that one Orlando Hudson was not all that in the field either. I won't speak directly in favor of Jeter but indirectly instead, and so the morons were wrong about O as anyone who had watched him play would know. And here, from 3cardmonty over at the USSMariner site:
"Orlando Hudson at -4.9 UZR/150 over the past 3 years?! Does that mean he's no longer a USSM-approved acquisition?"
The man is all over the right side of the field and you mark him up at -4.9? As I've always said, insane, or more correctly, ignorant beyond belief. I would think that Orlando would demonstrate for once and for all that the schemes are simply pathetic, but I won't be holding my breath, since we did play 18 games a year and that should have taught all Dodgers fans something about one Orlando Hudson [having played 2B, I used to watch DBacks game son MLB TV just to see Orlando play 2B].
Lastly, on TrueBlueLA, Eric Stephen wrote [2/21/09]:
"It appears he suffered a dropoff of some degree. One has to wonder if injuries have played a role in his fielding decline and, more importantly, can he be healthy enough to improve on them in 2009?"
No, no injury he suffered impaired his fielding. He is the same fielder, though now with a not so bendable wrist, as he always was. Put the best fit line graph down and watch him field his position.
Sorry, I lied, and so one more, from the clueless one who calls himself RJ over at DRaysBay, from his UZR Tidbits on Fangraphs under the same name [5/10/09]:
"As for the Dodgers, Orlando Hudson and Andre Ethier are sinking them."
Yes, Orlando Hudson is "sinking" the Dodgers fielding. And RJ wonders why I think that he's rather dim, despite his claim to fame as a devotee of an informed statistics.
Sorry, lied again, and maybe Mr. Minaya read and believed this piece, and thank our lucky stars if he did:
http://metsonline.wordpress.com/2009/01/08/mets-should-steer-clear-of-orlando-hudson/
Four respected systems? Only in the minds of those of thought that the no money down, no income verification mortgage was an "innovative" mortgage practice. Note here, Mr. Buffett's and Mr. Munger's critique of the companion version of the baseball's new math in the world of economics and finance [under "Messrs. Buffet and Monger on Math and Theories"]:
http://finance.yahoo.com/insurance/article/107029/Business-Musings-From-Woodstock-for-Capitalists
Well and truly lastly, as I've always said, it is precisely the same MBA types leading the way with "higher math" in baseball. Oh, and GoBears, you here? Re Manny and his money now, one in the hand is worth more than two in the bush. Don't believe me? Then ask Mr. Buffett.
Posted by: TheRealPaul | July 02, 2009 at 04:55 PM
Maybe Artest will get body piercings and start dyeing his hair.
Posted by: Icaros | July 02, 2009 at 04:56 PM
I'll politely disagree with accusations of Mannys selfishness and lack of community involvement or charity work.. This is the same Manny who has donated multiple cars to charity auctions to benefit childrens hospitals (in both the Boston and LA areas)..the same Manny who lent his name to the Manny Being Merlot wine label to donate to good causes. Look, I know the guys isn't a saint. But in my first hand experience he seems like a decent enough guy (I was with my 10 year old cousin when he asked Manny for an autograph in Pasadena one day..he was totally cool with it).
Posted by: DaDoughboy | July 02, 2009 at 05:01 PM
Eric Stephen: everyone needs a little bit of crazy.
Icaros: with the designs he does in his hair, the dye jobs would be kind of cool
Posted by: KG16 | July 02, 2009 at 05:01 PM
At the very least, this will ensure that the Lakers hang on to the title of most hated team in the NBA.
Posted by: Icaros | July 02, 2009 at 05:05 PM
One of my favorite Chapelle Show sketches ever was "When Keeping It Real Goes Wrong."
Posted by: Eric Stephen | July 02, 2009 at 05:06 PM
Real Paul - So in your pretend fantasy baseball league,
Chad is not that good? Did I understand that correctly?
Posted by: Craig88USC | July 02, 2009 at 05:11 PM