Manny Ramirez deserves his rehab assignment

Let me get this straight.  Manny Ramirez was suspended from the major leagues for 50 games.  And now people are upset that he will play in minor-league games before his 50-game major-league suspension is up?

I'm sorry, but you've got to be kidding me.

First, this isn't a Ramirez-only rule.  Every suspended MLB player has the right to a rehab assignment. J.C. Romero pitched in five minor-league games before returning from his 50-game suspension. 

Romero isn't exactly a nobody; he's an important part of the National League East-leading Phillies' bullpen. His rehab assignment, in which he allowed runs in two of his five outings, helped prepare him to begin his 2009 major-league season with six consecutive scoreless games. Where was the outcry then?

Second, if Ramirez were able to come back to the majors after a 50-game absence at full strength without a rehab assignment, no one would have a beef, right?  So what are people really upset about? That he's actually going to be appearing on a minor-league field?  

No, they're upset because they think Ramirez is getting special treatment, when in fact nothing of the kind is happening.

These games are nothing more than workouts for Ramirez. Saying Ramirez shouldn't get to play in any minor-league games while serving a major-league suspension is just like saying he should have been banned from any form of exercise since May 7. 

This argument I'm making is not about Ramirez being a Dodger. I fully support any major-leaguer getting a rehab assignment at the end of a suspension -- precisely because the alternative doesn't make sense. The alternative calls for either a) the player doing the rehab after the suspension, thus effectively increasing the suspension beyond the agreed-upon term, or b) the player being forced to rush back before he's ready, which also effectively increases the punishment.  It isn't fair.

The punishment for Ramirez's violation is a 50-game suspension from the major leagues plus a loss of salary. That's the punishment, and it's already severe. Don't try to change the punishment after the fact.

Comments

[bhsportsguy]

I am sure Tracy Ringolsby wrote a similar column when JC Romero pitched in 7 rehab games prior to coming back with the Phillies.

This only became a story because its Manny, no one paid that much attention to it before.

[NoHoDodger]

I haven't heard any vibe that the rehab is being criticized.

[pdotmac1]

Also,

the benefits for the Alb. and IE franchises should be something that people should appreciate

[Kevin Lewis]

Jon, where are you hearing the dissent?

[regfairfield]

Making Manny sit on the couch for 50 days would have been an entertaining punishment.

[Phenomenal Smith]

Jon linked an article from Tracy Ringolsby criticizing the minor league rehab assignment.

And don't forget Joe Morgan's "thoughts" on the matter that he "developed" during the Dodgers-Cubs game a couple weeks ago.

[Xeifrank]

There's a link in Jon's post showing the decent. It appears to be a FoxSports dot com employee writing from their mothers basement.
vr, Xei

[Kevin Lewis]

Oh, sorry about the missed link. I meant on a broader scale. Is this something that is making a story with other papers?

[Tripon]

Joe Morgan, and Steve Phillips was talking about Manny's rehab stint at the last game of the Dodgers-Phillies series at Dodgers stadium.

It basically boiled down to a defense of Manny, and the CBA, since the thing was negotiated years before. And the suspension effectively becomes a 40 game suspension. If there's a criticism of the situation, people should be looking at changing the rehab part, not blaming Manny. If I remember the whole thing correctly.

[bhsportsguy]

Kevin Lewis - its mostly from national reporters who suddenly discovered this agreed upon provision of MLB/MLBPA Drug Policy. (Tracy Ringolsby, ESPN)

But it would not surprise me if two writers who are on the LAT payroll don't say something later this week.

[Bear Dodger]

REPOST from previous thread:

I'm really baffled that the Pierre talk just keeps going on the same like a broken record despite what the guy does on the field. Granted he is never going to have a walk-off home run or anything so dramatic, but you look at the box score every day and this guy has won many games for the Dodgers. I have yet to see that post.

Seems like a lot of commentors are pretty juvenile with not being able to come to terms with reality and admit what they are seeing on the field. Personally I'm a little put off by the stock market mentality of looking at your team instead of just sitting back, watching, and enjoying the game as I prefer. But your evaluations of Juan's worth does not change how he does on the field or his numbers. Even if people did something with his numbers and posted it, it might be something, but very few do unless pointing out that BA is a worthless stat. Please stop with all of the ridiculous broken record comments. It just makes you look ignorant.

That being said Manny, Kemp, Ethier, and Juan have all been "difference makers" this year. A pretty good problem to have. My guess is that you will see all four guys get playing time with Manny back.

[fanerman]

Bear Dodger,
It's nothing personal, but by any reasonable measure, Pierre is the 4th best outfielder on the team, after Manny, Kemp, and Ethier.

[regfairfield]

Arguing that Juan Pierre, who has a .699 OPS as a Dodger, deserves any kind of rotation with Manny, Kemp, and Ethier might also be seen as ignorant.

The man had a great month of May, and it was a huge help but in the last 28 days he's hit like Juan Pierre: .288/.321/.356.

[Kevin Lewis]

Bear Dodger,

I don't think I saw anyone negating what Juan has been doing on the field with Manny gone, but I do think it is worth defending the fact that our three best outfielders are Manny, Kemp, and Ethier

[Craig88USC]

Sounds like a good lineup if I were Mgr to beat the Sounds soundly tomorrow night in Albuquerque -
; )
Repko CF
Hu SS
Ramirez LF
DeWitt 2B
Hoffmann RF
Brown, D DH
Closser C
Gonzalez, J 3B
Garcia, S 1B

[Jon Weisman]

I think I have posted on numerous occasions my gratitude for the help Pierre provided in Manny's absence.

I look at the box score every day and see how many games Pierre has won for the Dodgers. The difference is, I compare it to the games the other players have won for the Dodgers.

I just want someone from the pro-Pierre side to tell me why batting average is more important than other statistics. But they won't.

The Pierre-should-start contingent is every bit the broken record that the Pierre-shouldn't-start contingent is. And that's what makes this so tiresome. The debate never goes anywhere. But it's not one side's fault.

[Jon Weisman]

By the way, if you haven't heard criticism of Ramirez's rehab assignment yet, I can assure you that you will.

[Eric L]

That lineup may be better than what we saw at the end of the '05 season with Tracy and Co.

[Eric L]

Just heard on SportsCenter that Donald Fehr is stepping down as head of the players union.

[fanerman]

I really don't mean to get into the Juan Pierre debate every time, but I'm compelled to defend Matt Kemp's honor.

[Daniel Larusso]

Jon@11:48am:

Strawman!!! :D

[ucladodger]

Bear, even the people that dont like Juan can easily admit that he had an amazing month of May. But I've yet to see Juan supporters say that he was an absolute abomination his first two years as a Dodger. It is probably because he still had a decent batting average and stole some bases, but he was one of the least valuable starters in baseball. He has a .630 OPS this month, even after his game yesterday. That number is much more in line with his career numbers, and it is unacceptable for a corner outfielder. Playing Juan when Manny comes back would mean moving Matt Kemp out of center, where he has been the best overall center fielder in baseball. In effect, we would be both hurting our defense and offense at the same time. What sense does that make?

Even just looking at Pierre, his numbers this year are entirely unsustainable. His BABIP is almost 40 points over his career average, which is bound to regress. His walk rate is up a tick and he is being much more patient at the plate, but when his batting average regresses, he will not be getting on base enough to help the team. Especially at the expense of someone like andre Ethier, who can carry a team offensively when he gets hot. This doesnt even factor how horrid Juan is in center field, which would be the position he would have to play. With Manny Ramirez on the suad, playing Juan Pierre every day would significantly hut the team in the long run and give the Dodgers a smaller chance to win the whole thing. In the end, isnt winning what we all want?

[bhsportsguy]

Also, as much as Juan Pierre gets deserved applause for his work during the last 41 games, the Dodgers have continued to win as a team because of good pitching and defense with offensive contributions from Pierre, Blake, Hudson, Kemp and Ethier.

This team did not go 21-8 because of soley having Manny and they certainly did not go 25-16 soley because Pierre hit well in that period.

But the team is averaging one less run per game with Pierre as LF than Manny as LF and that could cost some games down the road.

[bhsportsguy]

Boy, can't wait for Donald Fehr's memoirs to come out.

[regfairfield]

I'm just glad we won't see a million people bringing "Fehr Ball" signs to games the next time the CBA come up.

[VA Blueblood]

BD: "Seems like a lot of commentors are pretty juvenile with not being able to come to terms with reality and admit what they are seeing on the field. Personally I'm a little put off by the stock market mentality of looking at your team instead of just sitting back, watching, and enjoying the game as I prefer."

There's no accounting for taste, and if that's what you prefer, then by all means knock yourself out. Sit back and enjoy. But it seems like you want to have it both ways here; you say that stat-minded folks are not "able to come to terms with reality." Statistics are cold, hard reality. What you "are seeing on the field" is the opposite. It is completely and totally subjective, and making evaluative statements about players based solely on what you have seen is adding the invisible caveat that the only stats that 'count' are the ones that you personally have witnessed while "sitting back, watching, and enjoying."

Again, I have no problem with anyone enjoying an entertainment as they want to enjoy it. But labeling others as juvenile for not sharing your opinion is, well, rather juvenile, no?

[Tripon]

Donald Fehr resigned today as head of the MLBPA.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4278728

[Eric Stephen]

Has anyone ever seen a "Fehr Ball" sign?

And won't it be worse since the guy taking over is named Michael Weiner???

[Jon Weisman]

Kevin Goldstein loves young Devaris:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9103

Dee Gordon, SS, Dodgers (Single-A Great Lakes)
It's possible that no prospect excites me as much as Gordon has this year. He's reeled off seven straight multi-hit games as part of an 11-game hitting streak, during which he has gone 22-for-45 to boost his season averages to .308/.372/.405, with his blinding speed adding eight triples and 40 stolen bases. The thing is, when you ask scouts about him, all they talk about is how incredibly raw he is. He's getting this done on almost pure athleticism alone, and the gap between what he is now and what he can be is still massive. While it will require more research and discussion, I'm becoming convinced that he's the top prospect in the Dodgers' system right now.

[ucladodger]

Thats awesome to read about Devaris. Really, his development fits perfectly with the shortstop situation. Raffy's contract is over in 2 years, and only DeJesus seems like an adequate replacement, but he lost a crucial year of development this year. If Gordon can continue to refine his skills and move up the ladder, there is a possibility that he can step in for Raffy when his contract ends.

[Tripon]

Dee Gordon, Ivan DeJesus Jr. and Chin Lung Hu.

So er, where does Blake DeWitt fit into this discussion of Shortstops, 2nd basemen, and utility infielders?

(somebody is getting traded.)

[louisinsf]

Jon nice post. In addition to Morgan and Phillips,saying the rehab assignment is unfair, and almost implying that Manny is getting some special type of treatment, the recnet coverage what day Manny's rehab is going to start has been overblown. It illustrates the lazeyness of the media in covering the Dodgers-"Manny being Manny" is a lot easier story to do rather than a more interesting story on any number of topics.

[Andrew Shimmin]

Jon's point about the dullness of the Pierre thread is particularly important on a day when DT Giant Eric Stephen admitted to being so bored he was transcribing Morgan and Phillips. What we need here is an international day of entertaining Eric. My contribution.

[Craig88USC]

DeeG it!

[DBrim]

People here are saying that the Manny "rehab" is unfair. They're not exactly neutral parties, though.

[Surfacetear]

Is it just me, or are the knives out in the national media for the Dodgers this year?

Is it because so many Red Sox fans, who burn with seething hatred for Manny, are influential in the baseball writing world?

I don't get it. The Dodgers are the story of the year in baseball, getting it done with more home-grown talent then just about anyone in baseball. And yet, it's one string of negative stories after another.

[pdotmac1]

That's a pretty impressive thing to say that he could be the top prospect in the organization.

[berkowit28]

Tripon (or anyone),

How do the people arguing that Manny's rehab is "unfair" argue that it's "effectively a 40 day suspension"? He's not helping his team ad he's not being paid. Very strange. As Jon says, are say really saying that someone who has not played in two months should start playing without any rehab? Who ever does that? or are they saying that the suspension needs to be 60 days, even though it was handed down as 50 days, so he can get some rehab?

What with that and the Pierre babbling, it's getting me depressed how much nonsense gets spewed in sprts commenting. Maybe I should go back to just watching the games, like normal people, and spend the rest of my time some other way. Blah. Must be because today is an offday, with no game to put an end to this.

[Delias man]

At what point do they give up on Hu? He is not hitting at all.

[pdotmac1]

if there's anyone who hasn't checked out the YouTube videos of Gordon, they're are a few up that show his athleticism pretty well.

[underdog]

I hear that Donald Fehr is stepping down. Discuss.

[4theLove_oBsbll]

I would seriously LOVE to harness all of the energy that people use to complain and reign in all those negative vibes. It's not like Manny can get some practice in at a "Sunday pick-up game"... UGH, between all the Juan Pierre specualtion and now these complaints about Manny in the Minors, it's amazing that there's anything left to talk about.

Except i would like to say GREAT TIMING for airing BLUETOPIA on KCAL 9 yesterday. It should have renewed many fans spirit. Seeing and hearing how positively Manny was received firsthand was BRILLIANT planning on somebody's part...all is great in Dodgertown...

And our own Jon Weisman was featured meeting Vin Scully...very cool. (I had just finished the Vin chapter 100 Things...that afternoon)

[Tripon]

berkowit28, I don't know how rehab games 'effectively makes it a 40 game suspension'. I was just typing what I remembered. Maybe I misremembered the conversation.

But I think Morgan, and Phillips did note that you'd also be extending the suspension if you couldn't do rehab before the suspension ends.

Also, its pretty obvious that Pierre will still see significant playing time when Manny comes back. Manny's 37 with bad legs, he'd likely be missing a couple of games every week as he tries to return from a long layoff. Also, does everyone else notice that we're been playing with only 3 outfield starters for at least a month since Hoffman been called up?

Hoffman, got what, one start? and that's even when Andre Ethier injured his toe. And it seems that Mitch Jones will never see the field either. Bringing back Manny gets us four viable outfielders, which should at least help with the non-depth we have right now.

[Eric Stephen]

I can't wait for all the "Fehr and Loathing" and "Nothing to Fear But Fehr Himself" -type headlines.

[Tripon]

"The Fehr Putsch?"

[Craig88USC]

The 7 Kings of LA OBP (starters only baby)

1 MR .492
2 J.P .392
3 MK .382
4 OH .382
5 RM .365
6 CB .365
7 AE .359

Kings to be; JL & RF waitin' on a friend's return I guess ; )

[Craig88USC]

The 7 Kings of LA OBP (starters only baby)

1 MR .492
2 J.P .392
3 MK .382
4 OH .382
5 RM .365
6 CB .365
7 AE .359

Kings to be; JL & RF waitin' on a friend's return I guess ; )

[Tripon]

""For me, he looks more like he did last year than he did at any time in Spring Training," said Flippo. "From Spring Training and right until he got suspended, he was still trying to find a rhythm. Even in April, he still looked like a hitter going through Spring Training games. He was still trying to get it to click.""

http://tinyurl.com/l3gq2m

[WBB]

I was in Boston (well, Cambridge) during last year's AL Championship series and found very little resentment of Manny, even when I brought up the topic (I was giving a non-baseball talk that allowed me to joke about it, thanking them as a Dodger fan).

[Craig88USC]

oops my root beer spilled.

[berkowit28]

Josh Rawitch is going to Albuquerque today to look after Manny - probably protect him from the media hordes, and run interference. I guess Manny's really planning to play then...

[Tripon]

ESPN, and Accuscore says that the rockies are favored tonight 53% against the Angels at Angels stadium.

Basically a toss up, but also indicative on the crazy streak they're on right now.

[Tripon]

The nation will not be subjected to Jimmy Rollins starting in the all-star game this year, as Hanley Ramirez surged ahead in the NL SS vote.

Well, unless Charlie Manuel makes a power push and tries to stuff his team with as many Phillies as he can.

[Tripon]

"Scott Elbert promoted to AAA"

- Scott Elbert was promoted to Triple-A Albuquerque today. The left-hander has done well in Double-A Chattanooga and had his cup of coffee in the majors, but has never pitched at the Triple-A level.

http://diamondleung.tumblr.com/

[bigcpa]

Icaros correctly found Waldo at the game last nite. Kobe sat two seats over from me on the Dodger dugout, and I shook his hand when he came in.

I posted a slideshow here:
http://tinyurl.com/kobe-dodger-game

and video here:
http://tinyurl.com/kobe-dodger-game-video

I'll post some addtl. comments shortly.

[VA Blueblood]

maybe the "rehab is unfair" talk is simply a semantic disagreement. The word 'rehab' implies that the player in question has some sort of injury (or addiction) that needs to be rehabilitated. Manny isn't really rehabilitating anything (except maybe his reputation?). So let's call it something else... how about Warm-Up Assignment. So there you go, that's a 'fair' term. Problem solved.

[Jon Weisman]

Awesome, BigCPA :) Now what is Matt Kemp shouting at you?

[bigcpa]

Kemp was shouting at Kobe. He is such a fanboy! After that he tried to play it cool. I bet Kemp was bummed when he dropped that Hunter ball.

Guess Kobe's favorite moment:

a) Loney's HR
b) Bases loaded DP to save Kershaw
c) Idiot running onto the field and getting tackled.

[Bear Dodger]

Dodger Offensive Leaders (YTD 2009):

Batting Average (x1000)
1 M. Ram 348
2 J Castro 347
3 J. Pierre 337
4 M Kemp 318
5 O Dog 309

OBP (x1000)
1 M. Ram 492
2 J. Castro 411
3 J. Pierre 392
4 O Dog 382
5 M Kemp 382

(Doubles + Tripples) /At Bats (x1000)
1 M Ram 98
2 J Pierre 82
3 O Dog 82
4 C Blake 81
5 A Ethier 64

HR/At Bats (x1000)
1 M Ram 65
2 C Blake 45
3 A Ethier 44
4 M Kemp 31
5 O Dog 18

SB SB%
1 M Kemp 18 86%
2 J Pierre 17 77%
3 O Dog 5 100%
4 J Loney 5 83%
5 R Furcal 4 100%

You can misrepresent what you want but there they are for the year. And how about some love for the other Juan as well (Castro Love)?

That M Ram guy doesn't look too bad either, but he needs to start getting some steals before anybody thinks he can play baseball.

[Tripon]

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/sweetspot/0-3-126/Podcast--Around-MLB.html

"Rob Neyer covers contenders , pretenders, the top managerial jobs and Joe Torre's misuse of the Dodgers' bullpen."

[Think Blue Crew]

Bear Dodger,

Let me get this straight. Manny Ramirez cannot play baseball well until he starts getting some steals?

[Jon Weisman]

Think Blue Crew -

He's joking.

[bhsportsguy]

A couple of things to note.

The only two LA Dodger teams to be 46-24 prior to this year, were the 1974 and 1977 teams. The best record at 70 games in LA is 47-23 (1962).

The next record to shoot for is the best at 81 games (55-26), that will take some doing but who knows.

I bring this things now and then just so you don't think this stuff happens every year.

[Old Dodger Fan]

1962 broke my heart.

[underdog]

Nice bigcpa! I am jealous.

Oh, but I thought Matt's gaffe happened after Kobe left, no?

It was amusing during that idiot running on the field moment, watching on TV because of course they rightly don't show the idiot. So Jon Miller told us what was happening and we watched Rodriguez and Ausmus watch the melee with bemused curiosity.

[Phenomenal Smith]

For those asking why Ryan Howard was out with "flu like symptoms" instead of the "flu," the reason was that Howard didn't have the flu.

He had a bad sinus infection.

[Landonkk]

So I just purchased MiLB.tv in prep for watching Manny live tomorrow. I have been flirting with the idea for a while because they show quite a few Isotope games and it is only $7 a month. I'll keep you posted on the quality (350k supposedly)

[bhsportsguy]

In 1977, the 46-24 Dodgers had an 8.5 game lead over the Big Red Machine. They had a 90+ run differential.

[Bear Dodger]

Manny will have had 50 games to learn how to play 1B, Catcher, or SS. Hopefully he has used his time wisely and progressed in these areas.

[Bear Dodger]

P.S. and obviously, let's hope he's worked on base running.

[Craig88USC]

Thanks BH for -

"The next record to shoot for is the best at 81 games (55-26)"

I can see us going 9-3 and missing the record by one...

at White Sox 2-1
vs Colo 2-1
vs Sea 2-1
at SD w/Manny and his boys in sweep city mode 3-0 (and no "beat LA" chants to speak of while doing it).

Goals are good.

[Old Dodger Fan]

When you have a career OPS of 1.006 you can run the bases backwards for all I care.

[Craig88USC]

Landonkk - I've had it all year. Nice picture. Laid back homey announcers. ; )

[dodger56]

what team was 55-26?

[Jon Weisman]

Brian Lowry's positive review of HBO's "Hung," which I completely agree with. Some PG-13 language within.

http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117940545.html

Show premieres Sunday.

[Phenomenal Smith]

The 1942 team was 58-23.

[Craig88USC]

James Loney has just joined my above list of Kings.

(He is exactly 50th in Official OBP League Leaders.)

...and that's good enough for me!

Now only one to go. Cheer on Raffy.

[WBB]

The 1962 season was a tragedy, but the following year was redemption.

[underdog]

Hung. Alexander Payne + the underrated Jane Adams = I'm there!

[Kevin Lewis]

Okay, so if I want awesome seats like those, I need to be a CPA?

[Eric Stephen]

It will also get you a top notch camera, Kevin. :)

[Craig88USC]

P'.S. - looking over their roster, I think we could beat 'em. I like our infield and catching much better.

[Kevin Lewis]

Oh, I already saved up for the camera...it was the best purchase I have made in a long time. Now I need to save up for a nice wide-angle lens

[evenatriple]

A few years ago the Yankees came to Dodger Stadium, and Kobe attended that game. He got a huge cheer when he arrived, and sat with his wife in the Dugout Club. That was the game, if my memory is correct, when Gagne struck out A-Rod with the game on the line. And I am sure if my memory is wrong, someone here will correct me very soon.

[Jon Weisman]

Does it get any better than this?

Mets DFA Wilson Valdez to make room for Elmer Dessens.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/06/mets-dfa-wilson-valdez.html

[Phenomenal Smith]

I think the 2008 Dodgers would beat the 1942 Dodgers on account of the being alive part.

[Jon Weisman]

Cody Ross on the trading block??!!

http://tinyurl.com/ls7nud

[bhsportsguy]

Ahh, Mr. Smith, reminds of the old joke and you could really fill in anyone here but I believe it was first used with Ty Cobb.

Man 1: The players today are pretty good, those old-time guys could not play with them.
Man 2: Oh, I don't know, I think Ty Cobb could still it .300.
Man 1: .300? I had a lifetime average of .367 and now, you say he would hit only .300.
Man 2: Well, he is 71 years old.

[bhsportsguy]

Sorry, Man 2 is not Ty Cobb.

As Daffy Duck would say, I had pronoun difficulties.

[Tripon]

Fans overlook suspension to see star
ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. -- J.J. Gutierrez, a 15-year-old baseball fan, didn't mince words when asked about Los Angeles Dodgers slugger Manny Ramirez.

"He's a cheater," Gutierrez said. "But I still want to see him play."

Gutierrez and his father, Julian, were among a steady stream of fans who lined up four- and five-deep at the Triple-A Albuquerque Isotopes' box office Monday to buy tickets for this week's series against Nashville.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4279309

[Phenomenal Smith]

According to B-R, there is one member of the 1942 Dodgers who is still among us.
It is reserve catcher Cliff Dapper.

Dapper was best known for being traded from the Dodgers farm team in Montreal to Atlanta in exchange for announcer Ernie Harwell.

[unlazy4sports]

I met a few Angel fans over the weekend that were telling me the only reason the Dodgers have such a good record is because they beat up on the "weak" NL West. Because of that, is it ok if I root for the Rockies to whoop the Angels, assuming the Dodgers takes care of their own business?

[Phenomenal Smith]

Apparently, the NL West and its relationship to the Dodgers is similar to USC and the Pac-10 in football.

Looks like the Dodgers won't be in the BCS Championship because they lost one home series to the Giants.

[Kevin Lewis]

Unlazy, yes, you may

[Ron]

People who keep slamming Pierre for his low OPS seem to be missing one key point. Granted Pierre lack any sign of power in his game and is really only a singles hitter. BUT with all of those stolen bases he gets, those 17 steals he has are essentially 17 more doubles ( or extra bases with stealing 3rd) that are not included in his OPS. He already has the third highest on base percentage on the team, and considering that he has 17 more bases that are not included in his Slugging percentage, he essentially has an OPS that is a decent amount higher than it appears to be.

I am not saying Pierre shouldn't be the 4th outfielder, but just pointing out that the way he plays the game his numbers are a little misleading

[WBB]

I don't want to flog Juan Pierre to death, so let's just say he's good enough to be a starting outfielder on a World Series champion - in fact, he's already done it. But so are the other three outfielders, who have greater upsides.

[Kevin Lewis]

The only problem with the 17 SB is you need to include the 5 CS.

He has been in the top 2 for CS in 7 seasons.

[Alex41592]

Can you imagine the Bison's numbers if stolen bases affected your OPS? Too good to be true.

Also, the question isn't so much what Pierre has done as what he will do in the future. May has come and gone.

[ucladodger]

Ron, they really arent. Pierre basically steals at a break even rate. You need to be around 80% to help your team stealing bases, and just like for his whole career, Pierre is below that rate. Also, a single + a steal is great, but it carries the risk of being thrown out, cannot drive in runners from first or sometimes even 2nd, keeps a double play in order, etc. His OBP is great this year, but its fueled by a great month and an unsustainable batting average. When juan continues his slump and refuses to walk, that number will continue to drop.

[Jon Weisman]

EQA takes steals into account.

Ethier's career EQA is .292
Pierre's career EQA is .258.