Prescription for a suspension: Behind the scenes on Manny Ramirez

The nitty-gritty details that led to Manny Ramirez's suspension are still mostly coming from anonymous sources. Bill Shaikin of The Times sums up the latest research, much of which emerged from an ESPN.com story by Mark Fainaru-Wada and T.J. Quinn.

Manny Ramirez abruptly dropped an appeal of his drug suspension within hours of a scheduled hearing last week, cornered not by test results but by a prescription for a banned substance that appeared in his medical records, sources told The Times. ...

In their appeal, Ramirez and his representatives planned to argue the testosterone indicated the presence of DHEA, a steroid precursor banned under Olympic rules but not under federal law or baseball's drug policy, the San Diego Union-Tribune reported.

However, that drug policy also includes a requirement that players must turn over medical records for reasonable cause. The union provided Ramirez's records, which included a prescription from a private physician for HCG.

Ramirez had not obtained a therapeutic-use exemption from baseball, which certifies the use of banned substances for proven medical need.

Here's what Ramona Shelburne of the Daily News has to say about Ramirez.

... The real truth is, the Manny Ramirez whom Boston fans came to hate and the Manny Ramirez whom Dodgers' fans fell in love with are one and the same.

When the Dodgers re-signed him this off season, I wrote that "throughout his sure-to-be Hall of Fame career, Ramirez has been a crystalline figure. Always sparkling bright, but always reflecting the light from different angles.

"Captured, controlled and cajoled he can be the brightest star in baseball. Which is why the Dodgers were willing to make him the second-highest paid player in baseball.

"But if the weather changes, and even in temperate Los Angeles that can happen, he can also be the biggest headache in baseball."

Only one part of that statement is now incorrect. After violating baseball's drug policy, Ramirez is no longer a sure-to-be Hall of Famer.

All of his other-worldly talent now seems ... other-worldly in the worst way.

We can still love him, still support him, and cheer when he hits a home run.

But it can never go back to the way it once was.

* * *

In a procedural move, the Dodgers released Eric Milton from his minor-league contract and then re-signed him, according to Dodger vice president of communications Josh Rawitch. The double transaction effectively dealt with the option in his contract that would have allowed Milton to leave the organization earlier this month.

Milton started Monday's game for Albuquerque and pitched two shutout innings, then was removed for a reliever at the start of the third. I'm trying to learn whether his early departure was scheduled or not. His ERA is down to 2.83.

Update: Milton was scheduled for a limited outing because he had been bumped up a day and was pitching on three days' rest, according to Isotopes announcer Robert Portnoy. No word yet on why Milton's schedule was altered and whether that signifies any imminent move to Los Angeles, however.

* * *

The most interesting thing to me in this Chad Billingsley feature by Dylan Hernandez of The Times was that Billingsley didn't return Joe Torre's phone calls during the off season, following his National League Championship Series nightmare -- and that Torre seems to have taken it in stride.

... He returned to his home -- in Pennsylvania, no less. About a month after that infamous Game 2, Billingsley slipped and fell on his ice-covered porch, breaking a leg.

He didn't answer calls from Manager Joe Torre over the winter.

But by the time he reported to spring training, Billingsley appeared to have come to terms with what had happened. What he wouldn't say to reporters, he said to Torre and pitching coach Rick Honeycutt in a meeting early in camp.

"He was very honest about it," Torre says. "It bothered him. . . . He wasn't pretending it wasn't there. He's a very proud young man and a very honest young man and he attacked it."

Billingsley is scheduled to face Cole Hamels in Philadelphia on Thursday.

* * *

Here it is: Kirk Gibson's homer, "Simpsons"-style (thanks to Sons of Steve Garvey and their commenters).

Comments

[D4P]

My eye was caught by yesterday's ESPN article about how the quantity/nature of Manny's testosterone could not have come from the HCG drug...

[underdog]

My g/f was wondering why I was laughing so much during that super-quick Gibson reference on the Simpsons. It just seemed so random. Evidence the writer (or someone producing the episode) was a Dodger fan.

[Jack]

There's no way Manny's getting in the hall of fame. If Mark McGwire cant even garner 1%, I doubt Manny has a chance.

I'm really interested to see if the baseball writers vote in Roger Clemens. Other than Bonds, I cant think of a player more fitting of using "performance enhancing drugs".

I guess the question remains about Manny is whether a non-juiced Manny is worth 25 mils, since I have to believe that this guarantees him coming back in 2010.

[regfairfield]

I like to call that a blessing in disguise.

[Bob Hendley]

Jack,

OT on defensive metrics. I was just saying the the changes in these numbers reflect what I have been seeing, where, yes, I am the one who determines luck/unluck.

[Kevin Lewis]

I asked this earlier, but would the Dodgers have any legal grounds to try to void the option after the season ends based on Manny being a different product advertised?

[Jack]

Kevin - not sure. I know baseball contacts have 'morals' clauses in them, but I doubt steroids apply.

[Phenomenal Smith]

The drug testing clauses were collectively bargained, so I imagine that if a positive test were used to invalidate a contract, there would be some very nasty grievances filed. The players are already receiving hefty suspensions.

[Phenomenal Smith]

Remember also that in addition to being punitive, the drug testing is also supposed to ultimately help the players by getting them to stop using drugs that are considered unhealthy.

[Marty Leadman (LAT)]

Kevin, my favorite sandwich places in Pasadena:

Europane Amazing egg salad
Fredo's Philly Cheese Steak for the um, cheese steaks
Lee's Hoagie House Good chicken hoagies and other sandwiches.

[Al]

That note about Chad Billingsley bothers me. He made a mistake, and then refused to pick up a phone call from his manager - seems pretty disrepectful. He still has refused to take responsibility for his mistake, at least in public.

Anybody can have a bad game or two - I think we all understand that. But not sticking up for your players? That's inexcusable.

I'll never forget what Kuroda did for the team. He has guts and heart. Chad, for all his talent... well, you can have him.

[elccpa24]

Well Manny didn't lie about having a doctor's script. If he was planning an appeal it seems to me that at that time he could not have realized it was a banned substance. Hey I'm not saying he's smart here just that maybe in some strange way he was telling the truth as he saw it.

[Jack]

What was Billingsley's mistake?

[Bob Hendley]

Amy needs to get to the bottom of this Chad stuff right away.

[Fred]

When a player like Manny takes the team physical, which he presumably did during the signing period with the Dodgers, wouldn't evidence of long term steroid use be obvious?

There is a lot about this entire thing that is very murky.

[Dodger Dude]

"When the Dodgers re-signed him this off season, I wrote that"

I'm so glad that sportswriters have unique insight into the character of baseball players that we the fans don't. What a hack.

My favorite part of the ESPN article is where they claim "experts" say this and that. They even use anonymous sources for people with expertise in pharmacology. Wider market hacks.

If you want to know what happen, talk to Manny Ramirez, everyone else will just be speculation. If he doesn't tell you the truth, you probably aren't going to know.

[Kevin Lewis]

Thanks, Marty. I will try Lee's Hoagie House. You gotta love the satellite images from Google when it comes to figuring out where a place is. Is it cash only?

[cargill06]

I'm confused about Chad's "mistake" also. It would've been idiotic to try and give Philly a free baserunner in the most important game of the season. Joe should be apologizing for his mistake by not putting out the fire after the game and saying, "I told him not to throw at anyone this game's too important."

If someone thinks the series would've been different at all if Chad drilled somone isn't thinking clearly.

[delias man]

I have noticed that Chad has a new demeanor this year. Appears to be a jerk. That is OK. I can say that because I am also one.

[Jack]

If Chad's "mistake" was pitching poorly vs the Phillies... I guess I dont really consider that a mistake. He just didnt execute. Should he have to apologize to his manager or the public for failing? I dont think so, as long as he did his best (which he presumably was doing).

[Jon Weisman]

"Chad, for all his talent... well, you can have him."

I'll take him, thanks.

[Jon Weisman]

So, Milton's outing was scheduled for two innings, according to Isotopes announcer Robert Portnoy. He was bumped up a day and pitching on three days' rest. Don't know the reason he was bumped up.

[kinbote]

"I'm trying to learn whether his [Eric Milton's] early departure was scheduled or not."

I can't find anything either. My guesses in order of likelihood:

1. They are simply limiting his innings, as they have recently done with other starting pitchers in the minors.

2. They have seen enough and are considering bringing him up to replace Brent Leach.

3. He hurt himself (he was replaced the inning after sacrifice bunting). This is pure conjecture, as I have read no mention of any injury.

[Jon Weisman]

By the way, I can't imagine a good reason for Billingsley not to return Torre's phone calls - makes you wonder if Billingsley was upset at Torre for not defending him. But hopefully whatever tension there was has been resolved.

[DL]

I thought the most overblown part of last year's playoffs was the bit about Billingsley "failing to protect his teammates." Whatever. Billingsley had a bad series because he failed to protect the poor baseballs from being pummeled by Phillie hitters. The other stuff is just meaningless unwritten-code-of-the-game nonsense.

[jpg]

AL - I have to admit not answering the phone calls of your manager during the winter is a bit weird but to paint such a brush on Brad because of a mistake in judgment during his first playoff experience is just wrong.

[Fred]

It may be unwritten-code-of-the-game nonsense, but it's not meaningless. There's a reason that codes are created and maintained-- some of them may be bad reasons, but that doesn't mean that it isn't important.

It seems that most of you think that Bills did not make a mistake. I would guess most of you never played competitive baseball. I agree it's basically nonsense, but when everyone buys into the nonsense, it becomes important and perhaps even necessary. Had Bills pitched better, it wouldn't have mattered, but the Phillies intimidated the Dodgers and you can't deny that that wasn't a major part of the series. Bills was in the clear position of having to answer the intimidation, and he failed to do so. I highly doubt he will make the same mistake again.

[Jack]

The last thing Chad needed to do was start hitting Phillies batters and putting them on base. The goal as a pitcher is to not give up any runs. Putting runners on base would not have helped that.

And if the Dodgers batters are upset that Billingsley didnt "retaliate", then they are the ones with the problem. Either they should get out of the way & work a walk, or take your HBP and get on base.

Batters in this day & age have to be the weakest/lamest ever. They have batting helmets, armor, everything possible up there to protect them. The pitchers have a right to throw the ball wherever they want.

[Jon Weisman]

Let's say Billingsley should have thrown more inside in that first start against Philly.

The fact is, he didn't. What's the better response from his teammates?

a) Accept it and move on.
b) Shun him.

I think the calculated choosing of b) was a bigger mistake than what Billingsley "failed" to do when the pressure was on.

[cargill06]

"It seems that most of you think that Bills did not make a mistake. I would guess most of you never played competitive baseball."

Knew that was coming. FWIW, I played HS and community college. I think throwing at someone in such an important game to show your manhood is really dumb. If they lost by 1 becuase of the free baserunner Philly got I and most Dodger fans would be really upset.

[Bob Hendley]

We are a West Coast finesse team. In your years of competitive basebal, were you ever intimitated into losing or did you ever intimidate another team into losing?

[KG16]

I don't really think much of the non-returned phone call; but then again, if I were in Billingsly's spot, I'd probably have done the same thing. I can be uber-competitive, and I would think that anyone who reaches the major leagues (or, for that matter, the high minors) would have to be the same way. Some guys just don't want to talk about their bad games to anyone - I know I never did. They just internalize them and use them to learn and to motivate.

[Jack]

How did the Phillies intimidate the Dodgers? Were the Dodger hitters scared to get in the batters box? Did they not try as hard?

I fail to believe that players with 600-700 ABs accumulated throughout the season, would all of the sudden become intimidated getting into the batters box.
Could Billingsley have intimidated the Phillies hitters...make them feel uncomfortable..by throwing at their heads? I doubt it. We're talking about pros that have played baseball their entire lives. They arent intimidated.

[DL]

the Phillies intimidated the Dodgers and you can't deny that that wasn't a major part of the series.

I absolutely can deny that. The Dodgers didn't lose that series because meek little Manny Ramirez and Russell Martin were intimidated by big bad Brett Myers. They lost because the Phillies outplayed them. Period.

In fact, you hit the nail on the head in the first part of that sentence: Had Bills pitched better, it wouldn't have mattered

[KG16]

I have to admit, every once in a while, while watching a game I think, "just hit him in the thigh." But I've never thought that in a play off game. And all those batters who were supposedly upset because Billingsly wasn't throwing back at the Phillies hitters could have always gone out to the mound on one of those inside throws. Or is it only good if another player gets ejected for stupidity? Even if it's the starting pitcher, you know, the most important player in the game for your team?

[Phenomenal Smith]

I never knew that the pitcher-batter duel in baseball was supposed to be like Aaron Burr vs. Alexander Hamilton.

[Fred]

We must have been watching through different eyes, I saw the Dodgers thrown off their game by the Phillies' attitude. The comments the people who actually played in the series made after seemed to confirm that.

Series can turn on little things that aren't necessarily related to balls and strikes. The regular season is thrown out the window, and every action is important. There is a lot of emotion, and the stronger emotional team has a better chance of winning. You can say 1000 times that these things don't matter, but very few people who actually play in the games agree with you. Why do you think that is? They're all delusional? That actually may be true, but a group delusion is known as 'reality'.

As for Bob's question, I absolutely saw people be intimidated, in dozens of different ways on the baseball field. Psychology is a huge part of sports, and intimidation is tool that works.

[Dodger Dude]

""Chad, for all his talent... well, you can have him."

I'll take him, thanks."

I'll take two if he has a clone available.

[Jon Weisman]

" I saw the Dodgers thrown off their game by the Phillies' attitude"

Can you define what this means?

[Jon Weisman]

... and how you distinguish it from the Dodgers being thrown off their game because they were losing?

[Phenomenal Smith]

Matt Stairs really threw the Dodgers off their game by hitting one of Broxton's pitches about 450 feet.

[Bob Hendley]

Fred,

My question is whether you were ever intimidated into losing, not what you saw in other people.

[DL]

The comments the people who actually played in the series made after seemed to confirm that.

Those were comments made by people who had just had their heads handed to them by the Phillies, and were looking to latch on to a reason for why they played so poorly. It's post facto rationalizing, and even if the players believe it, I don't.

[Al]

To address some questions that were posed and some clarifying comments:

1) I consider the "mistake" as not sending a message. Hiroki Kuroda didn't hit anybody and put anybody on base, but I think Philly understood what he was trying to do. He refused to let the Philly pitchers intimidate LA's batters without any sort of reciprocal statement.

2) If it was only myself, Joe Blow Dodger fan, that was upset with what happened, I might chalk it up to some sort of overreacting, ignorant fandom impulse hat didn't understand the intricacies of the modern game or whatever. But by all accounts, the Dodger players themselves were incensed and lost respect for Chad Billingsley as a teammate, especially considering that he was beaned in the head against the Giants late in the season.

3) The talent remark - I'm sorry that I stated it so generally. Let me rescind that comment, and put it this way - for all of his tremendous talent, I wish he also had the heart and/or guts to stand up for his team in such a situation, on such a stage as the NLCS. Talent is a necessary, but not sufficient condition (IMO).

You also need guts. I know, I'm sorry that I sound like some caricatured Bill Plaschke article ("Jeff Kent is a wily old vet, that plays the game right... with heart and guts and absolutely no range at 2B whatsoever"), but if heart and guts and standing up for your teammate has no role in the discussion, then what's the point of being a fan? If it all came down to talent, let's just pick champions after the draft and FA signing period.

Am I saying that I would rather see an injured Hiroki or Kuo, pitching through hidden injuries? Would I trade Billingsley for a middle of the rotation kind of guy? Of course not. But you expect more from your staff ace. And one of the best pitchers in the NL, by almost any statistical measure.

4) You know what one of the most courageous things I've seen on a baseball field was? Greg Maddux, with his ridiculous control and absolute complete lack of velocity, drilling Jose Canseco with his fastball, and just calmly waiting to see what would happen next. That's sticking up for your team, and I guarantee you, nobody was questioning his chops as a teammate after the game.

5) We all have bosses. Let's say that I performed a task below expectations, and I knew it. All this is happening right before I went on an extended vacation, and that my boss tried to contact me. I don't pick up my phone. For let's say, the duration of my two-week trip. Only when I come back do I speak to him.

Now, in this case here, it's Joe Torre. Is he going to berate Chad Billingsley in the off-season? I doubt it - he's such a "player's manager." I'm sure Joe just called to check up on him and say hello and share a few kind words. And you're going to ignore him? I'm sorry, but that DOES sound odd and a tad childish and immature, if nothing else.

Sorry for the long post.

[Jon Weisman]

I don't agree with everything you said, Al, but I appreciate the thoughtful reply. I definitely agree with No. 5 and like I said above, wonder what the story was there.

[cargill06]

I don't have any link at all. My buddy just said something about according to major league sources Lance Berkman is going to be suspended 50 games for PED use.

[Mitch]

I don't understand the mindset. I just don't. I think it was all created by John Kruk. Chad throwing at a guy wouldn't have done anything. The umpire would have immediately issued a warning to both sides, there would be a man on first, and that would be that.

Does anyone think he's going to hit Ryan Howard and then all of a sudden the thought starts creeping through Chase Utley's head, "Oh no, he just hit Howard, now he's going to hit me."

Of course not.

Is Ryan Howard, after getting hit, going to start worrying about getting hit again next time he comes up? No no no!

Chad throwing a retaliation pitch was absolutely not the difference between winning and losing that game, or the difference between a rout and a close one.

Pitching is not all about intimidation and hitting batsmen. It's about... pitching. I love Chad, but he was throwing meatballs that day.

[fred]

Jon, success has many fathers and we love to talk about the reasons why people win. Sure it's most true to say they won because they played better. But victory and defeat are not as binary as the terms would suggest. There are shades of wins and losses, and there are reasons beyond just playing better. Why did one team perform, and another did not?

Is it your position that emotions and playoff baseball have nothing to do with each other? By asking me to define what seems to be a fairly plain statement, one that was echoed by people who played in the games on both sides, are you trying to say that your position is that winning and losing has no bearing on the attitude, context, and emotional state of both teams; or that such state can only be determined by the winning and losing itself?

My own personal experience has been that a baseball game is a roller coaster ride, the little things can have a huge impact on the game, and emotions help dictate the outcome. It appears you have a different opinion, but I'd prefer to hear it from you rather than just be asked to define my own statements, which seem to be fairly clear from here.

[the big grabowski]

Chad is the new Broxton.

I, for one, am quite excited for Thursday's game, and will probably clear my schedule so I can watch the whole thing uninterrupted.

[cargill06]

If that rumor about Berkman is true, this article will give you a couple of chuckles.

http://tinyurl.com/thank-goodness-for-lance-berkm

[regfairfield]

Why is the common assumption that professional baseball players, who have to go through a ton of mentally trying stuff just to make the show, will suddenly lose it all if Chad doesn't throw at somebody or they have to hit fifth or sixth?

[Eric Stephen]

You know what one of the most courageous things I've seen on a baseball field was? Greg Maddux, with his ridiculous control and absolute complete lack of velocity, drilling Jose Canseco with his fastball, and just calmly waiting to see what would happen next. That's sticking up for your team, and I guarantee you, nobody was questioning his chops as a teammate after the game

The only time Maddux ever hit Canseco was leading off the 9th inning of a game in July 2000, when the Braves were already leading 8-2. If Chad had been in such a low leverage spot against the Phillies, rather than the NLCS, perhaps his response might have been different.

The only reason the "incident" mattered is because Chad pitched poorly.

[jpg]

Nice reply Al, alot better then "you can have him".

[Old Dodger Fan]

Cargill- I am not the best judge of character in the world but I really don't believe Berkman uses PEDs. I hope your friend is wrong.

[underdog]

"I never knew that the pitcher-batter duel in baseball was supposed to be like Aaron Burr vs. Alexander Hamilton."

Bob T, they'd appreciate Burr more if he'd made a special salute to his father every time he dueled against someone.

[Jon Weisman]

Posted by: fred | May 12, 2009 at 10:36 AM
"Is it your position that emotions and playoff baseball have nothing to do with each other? "

No.

It is only my position that the specific incident you're talking about might not have has as big an effect as you seem to think it had. It's not that I think it was irrelevant, but I'm wondering why you think it was so relevant.

I would maintain that the Dodgers suffered a narrow loss in Game 1, that Billingsley got hammered in Game 2, the Dodgers still nearly came back and won Game 2, then went on to win the next game, then went on to lead in Game 4 and came within two innings of tying the series when -- long after Kuroda had supposedly evened the emotional score -- Broxton and Wade gave up those two home runs. I'm not saying that the players are robots, but I just don't see the evidence that Billingsley's lack of intimidation was the be-all and end-all of the series.

For my part, I think Furcal's Game 1 error was the turning point in the series, both in terms of what it meant on the field and how it seemed to kill the Dodgers' momentum from the Cubs' series. But that, too, is speculation on my part.

[cargill06]

I just asked him where I could find this he said "via TWITTER."

So who knows how credible it is and I don't even know how to begin to use Twitter to figure it out.

[Jon Weisman]

The inning after Bilingsley was removed from Game 2, Manny Ramirez hit a three-run homer. Four innings later, Casey Blake hit what would have been a game-tying homer in almost any other park.

That's part of my evidence that the Dodgers weren't over-intimidated.

[underdog]

Sorry if this was covered before but didn't Billingsley also say he'd learned a lot from the NLCS? I can't find the exact quote but in a recent story I thought he'd talked about that a bit. Not saying that now means he thinks he should plunk every batter who did something to irk the Dodgers, but I did get the feeling he'd grown from the experience and is also more willing to pitch hitters inside more. (As demonstrated this season.)

In short, I'm really not sure why Al is ready to cast him off, not willing to acknowledge Chad may have learned from the experience, nor willing to see his side of it from that series. It would've been more important if he'd just pitched better that series.

I hope he doesn't feel too, too much pressure for this one game this week, but I sure am rooting hard for him to show the remaining skeptics something.

But I also don't know what else he has to do to prove himself.

[Bob Hendley]

Fred,

The role that emotions play in sports is one thing, but what you said was that an emotion that you perceived, intimidation on the part of the Dodgers, played a major role in the series. I think that's what people are reacting (getting emotional!) about.

[Andrew Shimmin]

The closing paragraph of Hernandez's story on Manny doesn't seem quite fair. If the treating physician knew that he couldn't prescribe a straight steroid to a baseball player, the odds of prescribing a little used alternative (that he, hypothetically, could have failed to learn was also verboten) would be much higher. The synthetic testosterone that Manny actually tested dirty for, though, seems to do fatal injury to the theory that this may have all been a mistake.

[Humma Kavula]

Chad Billingsley's "failure" to drill a Phillie is the new Hee Seop Choi.

[underdog]

I'm starting to miss the Beard vs. Mul-hawk Thoughts.

No, not really. But almost.

[Marty Leadman (LAT)]

Kevin, all those places take plastic.

[Bob Hendley]

The great thing is that we get to play these guys again starting today, so we will have fresh gris for the mill. Can gris be fresh? Doesn't sound like it, it being gris and all.

[jasonungar]

I think both Chad's response to Torre and Torre's non-response to Chad are why I really like both of them.

[kinbote]

"Moneyball: The Movie" update:

http://tiny.cc/SCXem

[Humma Kavula]

Is it "gris for the mill" or "grist for the mill?" Google has it about 57-43 in favor of "gris."

Which is it? Why won't google tell me in 0.16 seconds?

[jasonungar]

My heart wanted Chad to hit a bunch of Phillies. But I think alot of you guys are right, he should have just pitched better. In lieu of not pitching better, he should have hit a bunch of Phillies.

[GoBears]

The only thing more absurd than baseball players perpetuating a macho code of conduct and "unwritten rules" (when it's convenient) is when that code is internalized by customers. I think some Dodger fans feel that their own manhood was threatened by Billingsley's decision not to throw at Phillies. That's taking things a little too seriously, I think.

By the way, if the Dodgers had won that game, nobody would have cared about the code. Instead, Billingsley would have been praised for being smart and professional, and keeping his emotions in check.

Sometimes, the pantomime gets boring.

[Andrew Shimmin]

If you run the search with the phrases in quotes, "grist" takes 73,300, vs. the 188 of "gris."

[the big grabowski]

There is an interview with Michael Emerson from Lost up on the Onion AV Club:

http://tinyurl.com/p7vljp

[jpg]

Andrew - "The synthetic testosterone that Manny actually tested dirty for, though, seems to do fatal injury to the theory that this may have all been a mistake."

But one Dodger fans will ignore as they try to rationalize their hero's fall so they can have a reason to give him a standing ovation when he returns as though he did something great by screwing his team and fans out of 50 games of production.

This is what I expect the Dodger timeline to be. Manny returns to a standing ovation. Manny gets a few hits in his first game back and everyone is happy. Manny then slumps and slowly but surely the town turns on him. As the Dodgers fall out of the pennant race they turn their fury on him and Sept in Dodger stadium will be filled with the bizarre chants for Juan Pierre. Basically a 180 from last Wednesday Night and the price we had to pay for the magical run he gave us last year. There is always a price for unexpected greatness.

[Andrew Shimmin]

Could be. Though I wouldn't be willing to bet on the "Give us Barabbas," chants. And I don't think I'd want to put money on Manny slumping particularly badly. PEDs aren't magic. We'll probably never know what the expected VORP advantage is of them, but I'd be surprised if it was more than twenty points.

[Lex in the Dena]

Who knows why Bills didnt answer his phone. It does seem odd. The rest of the talk about Chad makes no sense to me as I doubt any of his teammates are upset with him after his 5-1 start. He has been the MVP of the team IMO.

[Kevin Lewis]

This kind of retaliation talk took place this weekend with Tim pitching against us. I was watching the Giants feed, and they were actually saying Tim should retaliate against Matt Kemp since someone (I think Fred Lewis) had been hit. What did Tim do instead? He made Matt look foolish and struck him out on great pitching. I will always take that over a retaliation pitch.

[delias man]

Torre should have called him from a blocked number.

[jpg]

Andrew - I wouldn't be betting on Manny slumping because he's not using PED's. Simply the law of averages after being so good since we acquired him. And it wouldn't be a long slump just long enough for those who hate to use it as a reason to vent on him and the bandwagon haters will follow like the rats they are.

Then again the chances are over 90% that I'm completely wrong and that he leads the team to a NL championship because he's Manny and Manny usually wins.

[Phenomenal Smith]

So why did the guy who made a left turn from the right hand lane, against both a solid red and a solid red arrow, drive down the street and later come to a full and complete stop at 4-way stop?

If the guy had waited for the light to change, he would have been delayed for approximately four seconds.

[Phenomenal Smith]

Billingsley hasn't taken a call from a blocked number since that time he gave up his signing bonus to buy a timeshare in Wilkes-Barre.

[Bob Hendley]

Ok, then I am going with gristle to chew on.

[Dodger Dude]

I know I sure don't want to talk to my boss when I'm on vacation. If that's the worst you can say about him, I'm not worried. The way he was pitching against the Phillies he was probably trying to pitch inside, it just went over the plate. Since all of our young hitters choked too, I'd say there's plenty of blame to go around (maybe they were swinging the bat at the pitcher because they sure weren't hitting the ball). That was last year, that experience is in the bank and its time to spend it this year Dodgers with interest!

[underdog]

Well said, Dude.

And thanks for the Emerson interview link, Grabowski, fun read. I like the pic of him, too.

[SteelMohawk]

Nobody thinks that Chad Billingsley not talking to his Manager is a good thing?
Here are the Positives I see from it:

1) he was trying to step away from Baseball to find out who he really is, if that is who he wants to be, and how to handle and prepare for those situations in the future.

2) He wanted isolation, because he felt shame or remorse or something else where talking to a team member would only have a negative effect.

3) He didn't have any answers for Joe, or he was mad at joe and was immature enough to have a conversation, but mature enough to know his limitations in that department.

4) He was truely embarrassed, and knew how disappointing the injury was to himself, and didn't want to face Joe, and while this seems like a negative, the only positive I can see is that he would be afraid that he wouldn't be as focused after a conversation with Mr. Torre.

I know it looks bad, but there are guys who want to have nothing to do with baseball in that 90 day period of freedom.

[underdog]

Speaking of getting fired up to face the Phillies, found this on one of the blogs (the SB Nation one):

>>The main reason that the Dodgers have been so good is probably luck, actually. I know that may disappoint some Dodger fans, but their production does not seem to be due to any huge individual improvements (except for closer Jonathan Broxton). <<

http://tinyurl.com/o2u9cj

It's actually a pretty thoughtful post overall. He makes some good points, though I think he's overstating the above just a bit. Thoughts?

[GoBears]

I don't care that Billingsley didn't call Torre back. Who knows? Torre might have left a message saying "if you need to talk about anything, call me back," and CB was fine, so he didn't particularly want to talk about anything, and didn't bother.

Really, how is this important? If Billingsley had been a free agent this winter, and this was some sort of sign about intent to come back to LA (and we were having this convesation in January, not May), then maybe there'd be tea leaves to read. But he came back without a peep of protest or a word of whinge, and has performed extremely well. Why do people need to seek out drama where there just isn't any? One off day is that discombobulating?

Let's argue about the 5th starter again. Or the 8th bullpen guy. Or whether Rafael Furcal has forgotten how to play shortstop and hit, or is injured again.

.

[DL]

Road trip predictions, anyone? I'm a natural pessimist, so unfortunately I think the Dodgers are in for a gut check. The combination of the post-Manny discombobulation, and the fact they're now going to actually face decent teams, means 2-4 is a probable scenario.

[Old Dodger Fan]

3-3

[Jonny (TAFKAJ)]

Good afternoon guys....
Just had a chance to get on here today, and have skimmed the entries. Lots of Billingsley and Manny talk, and for good reason. However, I'd like to pose a question to you all....

With Manny out of the lineup, the dynamics change significantly. Aside from any trades or call-ups, what do you think Torre can do, in terms of strategy, to maximize the effectiveness of our lineup on the field, both offensively and defensively?

[Lord Skorpio]

4-2 IF there is timely hitting and the pitching holds up and keeps messes to a minimum.
3-3 is more realistic but again if they get on a roll they can do this. They swept FLA early last year and that was withought Manny and one year less experience.

[Old Dodger Fan]

I think Joe's job is to keep the team calm and patient and remind them that they are in 1st place. It's a long season.

[Xeifrank]

I just got today's lineups...

Los Angeles Dodgers
Player AVG HR RBI
J PIERRE LF .426 0 7
R FURCAL SS .250 1 5
O HUDSON 2B .337 3 12
A ETHIER RF .306 5 22
R MARTIN C .205 0 11
J LONEY 1B .313 0 16
M KEMP CF .325 3 16
C BLAKE 3B .243 5 15
C KERSHAW -L P .143 0 0

Philadelphia Phillies
Player AVG HR RBI
S VICTORINO CF .272 4 19
C UTLEY 2B .309 10 23
J WERTH RF .287 6 21
R HOWARD 1B .287 6 22
J ROLLINS SS .195 1 9
R IBANEZ LF .327 9 23
P FELIZ 3B .303 2 19
C RUIZ C .172 0 0
C PARK -R P .143 1 1

[Bob Hendley]

As I recall the pitching matchups are pretty good, so I'll go with 4-2 on that basis.

[Andrew Shimmin]

Remember that time when Rick Monday wanted to install CB radios in the dugout and bullpen, in case the existing phones went down, for some reason? That was awesome.

[silverwidow]

I miss the Pierre batting 9th behind the pitcher days.

[Jon Weisman]

Posted by: underdog | May 12, 2009 at 12:27 PM

I simply cannot believe the length of that piece. You'd think this was the start of the World Series.

[Lord Skorpio]

Ha Ha. What sticks out is that Park has outhomered, Pierre, Martin, Loney and tied with Furcal. Guess we should have resigned our power hitter. I kid about the power hitting but Park would have been servicable in the pen if he would have accepted that fate instead of wanting to be a starter.

[Bob Hendley]

U-dog,

Looks like we should be prepared for the short shift here on DT (at least relative to that SB post).;-p

[cargill06]

Loney needs to stop hitting that high.

As for the Dodgers being "lucky" obviously the casual observer won't realize how bad their, 3B, SS, CF splits were last year and all have been dramatically improved since last year. Want to talk luck, let's talk about Phillies bullpen as a whole last year.

[Gen3Blue]

Speaking of fifth starters, and hoping not to trip on rule 7, I guess we have been lucky to find fifth starters like Tomko, Hendricksen, Loaiza and Vargas, and not have to rely much on AAAA guys like Houlton and Stults.