Torre's looonnng farewell

Joe Torre's public statement that he plans to retire as manager of the Dodgers at the end of the 2010 season is unusual in franchise history, to say the least.

The awkward departure of the man Torre replaced, Grady Little, was just about the polar opposite of pre-planned. The previous four managers before Little -- Jim Tracy, Davey Johnson, interim skipper Glenn Hoffman and Bill Russell -- all were handed their walking papers.

Tommy Lasorda suffered a heart attack during the 1996 season, sending him into what he surely viewed was a premature retirement.  That was the first change at the Dodger helm since September 1976, when Lasorda peacefully replaced Walter Alston with four games left in the season. The Dodgers have not been explicit about this transfer of power, but to make a long story short, the abdication of Alston, who had managed the team since 1954, was not announced long in advance.

Preceding the long tenures of Alston and Lasorda was much tumult, much of which gets covered in my upcoming book (just two months away!). Suffice it to say, the modern-day Dodgers, in almost any way you define "modern-day," have not faced a situation like the one with Torre.

I'm not suggesting that this is a problem, but I do find it interesting. If the Dodgers do well over the next two seasons, Torre might all but anoint his successor, rumored to be Don Mattingly. On the other hand, if the Dodgers do poorly, does Mattingly -- who many thought would succeed Torre as manager of the New York Yankees -- become a casualty again?  Of course, a poor performance by the Dodgers could mean that a new general manager would be making the decision of how to replace Torre.

Amid all this speculation, we can be reasonably sure that Torre's retirement will be an ongoing story -- an ESPN fave -- throughout the '10 season (is that the "one-oh" season or the "ten" season?), with rocking-chair ceremonies possibly in every city that recall the farewell of, say, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. It could become a bit distracting and even nauseating, but you know, it might have some nice moments, too.

All I can say is that a year from now, as the baseball media cycles on about Torre's farewell and Torre's successor, it would be nice if the team on the field somehow emerged as the top story.

Comments

[underdog]

Wasn't that a Raymond Chandler story?

--

I personally feel like this should be Torre's last year but what do I know -- it's up to him to say when the time is right I guess. But yes, next season will be full of pomp and circumstance. If Colletti isn't around next season, as you said that could change things but it would seems likely he'd be given his last year no matter who was GM.

Okay, back to watching Vicki Cristina Barcelona before Lost.

[trainwreck]

Nate Silver is now doing Oscar predictions. His predictions fit with everything I would pick aside from supporting actress, but he even admitted he thinks his pick will be wrong for that one.

[Bob Hendley]

LATED (commenting on Bleeder's self-diagnosed bias against Brox and his wishing that Tron Tron had been at the meeting)

Bleeder

As regards Brox, perhaps you are. After that meeting, the Dodgers went 15-3 and essentially won the division. Mongo pitched in 9 of those with giving up no runs, 1 hit and 4bb, with 14k in 8.1 innings, picking up 4 saves.

[Tripon]

I think Mattingly gets the job, unless he's hired elsewhere. I can't see the Dodgers hiring Mattingly with Torre unless they knew that Torre wanted Mattingly to succeed him.

[VA Blueblood]

Here's betting the Dodgers do the "name the successor" thing with Mattingly prior to the end of this season to prevent him from being hired elsewhere for '10. And yes, it's definitely the "ten" season. At least here in Virginia.

[Phenomenal Smith]

Ken Griffey has decided at the last minute to sign with Seattle instead of Atlanta.

The Braves really need to hire press gangs to help them sign free agents, sort of like the British Navy did back at the beginning of the 19th Century.

Of course, some may argue that having Ken Griffey on your team now is a good thing.

[underdog]

Yeah, you have to almost feel sorry for the Braves at this point. Except Furcal's really the only serious loss. Griffey was a fantastic player. Was.

Still, maybe the Braves should check their deodorant or something.

[Dodgers49]

Juan Pierre will not be happy to hear this:

Work starts in earnest for Dodgers

>> Colletti said a pursuit of Hudson was not a reflection on Blake DeWitt, the assumed replacement for Jeff Kent at second base. If the Dodgers sign Hudson and not Ramirez, DeWitt could move to third base and Casey Blake to left field. <<

Dodgers.com

[Bob Hendley]

Stands to reason, they got sweaty Lowe.

[trainwreck]

Ned would be smart to not get on Canuck's bad side.

[KG16]

You don't normally see something like this in pro sports, no? I've seen it in college a few times, with coaches-in-waiting named, but I can't remember the last time it happened in the pros.

But some continuity and coaches leaving on their own terms would be a nice change of pace for the Dodgers.

[Dodgers49]

Willie Mays may not be popular in Atlanta. :-)

Griffey's decision aided by Mays

http://tinyurl.com/czy4zn

[Phenomenal Smith]

Ruben Amaro, Jr. was the designated heir to Pat Gillick as the Phillies GM.

There have been longtime managers who designated their successors such as Frank Selee picking Frank Chance to take over the Cubs and John McGraw tabbing Bill Terry, but it's been pretty rare lately

Tommy Lasorda definitely was not Walter Alston's designated successor. And Bill Russell was not Lasorda's designated successor. In each case, relationships between the managers were frosty. And in the case of Alston and Lasorda, it was nonexistent after the switch. At least that's what Lasorda said in his bio and there's not much reason for him to lie about that.

[Phenomenal Smith]

Speaking of Bill Russells, Red Auerbach had Bill Russell as his designated successor.

Phil Jackson doesn't seem to be in the designated successor business.

[oshea2002]

Atlanta should be happy they didn't sign Griffey

[Dodgers49]

MLB Network to air '30 clubs in 30 days'

>> Friday night marks the beginning of MLB Network's new on-location series, "30 Clubs in 30 Days," which devotes an hour-long segment to each team throughout Spring Training as a preview of the 2009 regular season. <<

## 3/20 9 p.m. Los Angeles Dodgers ##

http://tinyurl.com/am97ee

[Bob Hendley]

Don't the Braves want a 2nd baseman? O-Dawg is available.

[Andrew Shimmin]

I've been playing out the string with TW customer service to see how long it takes them to figure out that the MLB network didn't actually 'launch' in my area in the 11th. Every couple of days I email them back to report that it's still not available, and they tell me to wait a couple more days for "rollout." It's not as fun as having the channel would be, probably, but not entirely without its charms.

[Phenomenal Smith]

The MLB Network can only be seen by the five richest princes of Europe.

[Joseph]

Laker defense is awful tonight.

Yet 2 Trevor Ariza 3's have them in the lead..

[Dodgers49]

Thunder reject Chandler, trade off

>> The Oklahoma City Thunder did not medically clear the center on Wednesday and therefore rescinded the trade. <<

## "We welcome Tyson back with open arms," Hornets general manager Jeff Bower said in a statement. ##

http://tinyurl.com/bmlfep

[ceyhey10]

Do yourself a favor tonight. Get thyself to thy nearest youtube or espn web site and watch what Ovechkin did in hockey tonight. I'm not even a hockey fan, but that goal was just stupid.

[Andrew Shimmin]

Link to Youtube video of the Ovechkin goal: http://tinyurl.com/2g9mqh

[Dodgers49]

New York Times

Without Ramírez, Dodgers Enter Season With Unfinished Business

>> The addition of Ramírez would transform an average and youthful lineup including Andre Ethier, James Loney, Matt Kemp and Russell Martin into a threatening one. <<

http://tinyurl.com/b439po

[Bob Hendley]

Shimmin, you rat. (though to your credit you did use tinyurl and its a good song)

[Alex41592]

Well, I think we need a new rule to outlaw that. Second time I've been RickRoll'd.

The REAL goal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCreNsJBi4s

[Tripon]

Juan Pierre, was a bride for a year, and then forced into a trail separation against his will.

[Tripon]

Tinyurl is not your friend!

[Ton-Ton]

lol, I've been RickRoll'D.

[kinbote]

"trail separation"

I think Robert Frost wrote a poem about that . . .

[regfairfield]

Hudson at second, DeWitt to third, Blake to left certainly seems like a good thing.

[KG16]

reg - I certainly wouldn't complain.

[trainwreck]

Face/Off seemed like a good thing at the time.

Now look at it.

[Dodgers49]

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

Los Angeles Dodgers spring training veers from Vero Beach

http://tinyurl.com/cz9kpo

[underdog]

This is well played.
"Seattle signs Derek Lowe"

http://tinyurl.com/coeoao

Braves fans may not find it funny, but I did.

[Zach Harmon]

I'll get your for that Shimmin.

[BumsRap]

Sounds like Torre finally did what I wanted him to do on the first day of Spring Training last year.

Gurnick on Dodgers.com today:

Torre said he will address the club before Thursday's practice. He said his most productive address last year came when he called the young nucleus of his club into a meeting in his office just before the pivotal weekend series in Arizona that turned the season around. Among those attending were Russell Martin, Matt Kemp, Andre Ethier, Jonathan Broxton and James Loney. Chad Billingsley wasn't included in the meeting because he was that night's starting pitcher.

[BumsRap]

From a few topics back--I am eager to add to the core and my favorites the following: DeWitt, Miller, Elbert, Hu, Abreu, Lambo, McDonald. In the meantime, Loney, Kemp, Martin, Ethier, Kershaw, Billingsley, Broxton, Kuo are a heck of a core.

[Bluebleeder (Arnold B.)]

I understand the reasoning behind having a closed door meeting with "the core" of our young players but I (just my humble opinion) wouldn't have done it the way Torre did it.... & yeah-yesh they went on & won 15-of-what-ever amount of games but I just woulnd't have done it the way Torre did. JMO.

[Bluebleeder (Arnold B.)]

wow, the Braves run of bad luck continues http://tinyurl.com/z76yc

[D4P]

I wouldn't necessarily consider missing out on Ken Griffey Jr. to be "bad luck". He's not very good any more.

[Modern Image]

he's going back were it all started. I few years older & a few pounds heavier but going back non-the-less...

[Ken Noe]

"Hi, Scott? Ned. Uh, no, actually I'm calling about O-Dog. Uh, no, we're thinking about moving Blake to the outfield, actually. Yeah. Yeah, I can see why that might upset Manny. Well, I don't know, you'll have to be the one to explain that to Manny."

[D4P]

As if Scott would ever take Ned's call...

[D4P]

***Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports says the Dodgers appear to be the front-runner for Hudson***

Orlando, that is.

[DL]

Dude, RickRolls are soooooo 2007. But thanks to Andrew, we now have an illustrated reason why tinyurls suck.

As for Torre, it seems like he's already retired, he just hasn't told anybody yet.

[D4P]

***As for Torre, it seems like he's already retired***

I think Jon has rejected this line of thinking before, but I have long suspected that both players and managers tend to feel like LA is somewhat of a Shangri-La where one can relax and enjoy the good life upon arrival, without having to put forth maximum effort.

It was pretty obvious when he was hired that Torre was looking at LA as a chance to kick back and make some coin for a few years before hanging up the lineup card for good.

[DL]

Torre has spent more time this offseason publicly commenting on his former team than his current team. He's stil Yankees Manager Emeritus, and is regarding his Dodger gig like a retiree regards his afternoon game of shuffleboard. By declaring that he's out of here after 2010, he has let everyone know that he has nothing vested in the future of this team.

I'm fine with Mattingly being tapped as manager-in-waiting. In fact, I'd love to see him take over sooner rather than later.

[Marty Leadman (LAT)]

Are there fern bars in this Shangri-la? Just want to make sure as many of the stereotypes are covered as possible.

[cargill06]

I wonder how Casey Blake would project defensively in LF? I would think at least average. That would be a pretty good defensive team across the board.

[Gen3Blue]

We know Blake has a pretty good arm. And it looks like he played most of two seasons in right field in Cleveland , with stats that don't seem to point either way. I would say that's also a good sign.

[Hollywood Joe]

The offices of Blake and Blake at 3rd and in LF is not my idea of a good time

that twosome doesn't quite supply the offensive production we need from those two premium offensive postions and have O-Dog at second doesnt make up the difference

I don't really want O-dog on under any circumstances, but I REALLY don't want him without Manny or someother offensive power in LF

[delias man]

I fear a Blake-Pierre platoon in left. That is why I do not like this newest revelation.

[Modern Image]

Once a competitor ALWAYS a competitor.

[Gen3Blue]

By surmising that Blake would be an OK left fielder, I in no way mean to endorse the any of the options feared above. I agree all the possibilities are pretty bad, and I real don't want O-dawg in any case.

[LogikReader]

Jon: "it would be nice if the team on the field somehow emerged as the top story."

I could go either way on this. Sometimes it's a nice thing to have your team fly under the radar. Fewer distractions, less pressure for the players, and the Dodgers aren't nearly as good as the Lakers were in the Shaq era.

Shaq's Lakers may have been one of the better dynasties of our age because that team HAD to deal with all the off the court distractions with the internet, ESPN, and advanced media. Yet they still won three championships in a row.

And the Dodger team on the field is not going to be a story this year, my opinion.

[Gen3Blue]

Yes, I should have previewed.

[Gen3Blue]

Ouch! A Blake/Pierre platoon at how many millions a year? Not a place to visit.

[Hollywood Joe]

"I fear a Blake-Pierre platoon in left"

I just threw up in my mouth

[El Lay Dave]

Oh, HJ - *that* is a rule 13 violation.

[D4P]

Are we allowed to say that we threw up *outside* of our respective mouths...?

[El Lay Dave]

Ah, Joe Torre's Opening Farewell.

[El Lay Dave]

Every waiter in these Shangri-la fern bars in an actor between jobs and every customer is working on his screenplay.

[Gusto101]

So let me ask my fellow dodger fans a question or maybe you can tell me Jon, how far do you really think we're going to get with this team. i would say we'll end up in third place in the NL WEAK with the team we have now.
Do you think Ned & the Mccourts are really trying to win a World Series or they just trying to take our money? We still need Pitching and we still need a big bat and it seems like Ned is going to be waiting till July hoping that he gets lucky again and he lands a Freebe.
So can someone please give me a good reason on why i would go spend $200 to watch a team that is not trying to Win it ALL.

[Old Dodger Fan]

Is Torre's announcement a bit presumptious?

What if the Dodgers stink in '09 and he gets fired?

[Tripon]

It is not a Blake/Juan Pierre you should be fearful of. Its the Blake to first, Martin to 3rd, Brad Ausmus to catching, and Juan Pierre in left that Joe Torre is going to want to use in order to get his best offensive players in that situation(Blake, and Martin) in the lineup as much as possible.

A Manny signing wouldn't stop Joe Torre from doing this, but I get the feeling that Torre would rest Martin more over this year if he does have Manny in the lineup every day.

[Tripon]

Is Torre's announcement a bit presumptious?

What if the Dodgers stink in '09 and he gets fired?

Posted by: Old Dodger Fan | February 19, 2009 at 09:19 AM

Than McCourt would have even more egg on his face. Torre was hired because he can't be easily fired. Torre knows this and has all the leverage in this situation.

[Hollywood Joe]

"Do you think Ned & the Mccourts are really trying to win a World Series or they just trying to take our money?"

I don't know that these are mutually exclusive goals

[jpg]

No chance Torre gets fired no matter how bad we are this year. He may quit a year early but he won't be fired.

Regarding the meeting that Torre had last summer. Why wasn't this widely reported by the beat writers? The only thing we ever read is how the kids have problems and blah blah blah, but here was a meeting that could have gotten excellent play in our local papers/media and it went unreported.

Or did I just miss the whole thing because I rarely pay attention to local media anymore?

[Tripon]

Or did I just miss the whole thing because I rarely pay attention to local media anymore?

Posted by: jpg | February 19, 2009 at 09:32 AM

No, it wasn't reported at the time.

[jpg]

In looking at this I think the Hudson and Manny signing have to made collectively. Signing Hudson without Manny would be a waste of a draft pick. A combo of Pierre/Blake and the defensive upgrade of a Loney/Hudson/Furcal/DeWitt infield would be nice but the offensive shortcoming of such a unit would not overcome the defensive upgrade. That is just a subjective opinion and I'm open to someone doing the math and showing me I'm wrong. To me that looks like a 80-83 win team.

[Kevin Lewis]

I can no longer trust Andrew.

I know this is magical thinking, but is there any way to watch some of the MLB network stuff online?

This is what I get for not wanting to pay for my television.

[Tripon]

It would be cool of MLB offered the MLB network as part of the MLB.tv package.

Also, MLB.

[Kevin Lewis]

Oh man, MLB.tv was the bane of my existence last year. I got it to watch the Dodgers, and for some reason that worked for 2-3 months, and then they figured out I was in the LA region, so they cut me out in September.

I was not happy.

[Harris]

Underdog-- it's a novel and a good one, called The Long Goodbye. Robert Altman did a wacky but awesome film adaptation starring Elliot Gould as Marlowe. I once met Gould in an elevator, and flustered I asked him about "The last goodbye" he corrected me, nicely.

[jasonungar]

Just sign Manny already and put me in or out of my misery. As it stands now for this fan it's just misery. When they took over the team, 2 barley made playoff teams with all this young talent and money and resources does not do it for me.

[jasonungar]

Sorry my kid hit the mouse button as I was editing. It sorta make sense though.

[SteelMohawk]

the only problem I have with signing Hudson is that it shoudl have happened BEFORE they signed Blake. It is going to be really interesting to see how Pierre, who is really trying to show himself off to management AND other teams, will take playing second fiddle to Casey Blake if Blake isn't hitting well.

[jpg]

SteelMoHawk - but at the time Hudson was asking for around 40 Million over four years so you couldn't sign him before you signed Blake. The only reason they are even considering Hudson now is because he'd come so cheap. Back then Hudson thought the Mets would come calling but then the Met's were ponzied and the money was gone.

[kinbote]

I can be as pessimistic the next guy, but this is a team that made it to the final four and could've easily won it all if x, y, & z happened. I'm not convinced our entire fate is centered around Manny, but I also think he'll be back. I think the trade market this year will be something very interesting to watch. Teams that are out of contention early might begin selling pieces well in advance of the trade deadline. If we open the season without all the pieces in place, I won't be concerned.

[Hollywood Joe]

...and of course Hudson remains unsigned

I am going to delight in speculation and thrill myself with both joys and horrors spawned by conflicting thoughts of fancy and fantasy

But I will reserve my weeping and gnashing of teeth for real signings only and hold my true joy stashed away with no less care

In the end I hope this is much ado about nothing

[briano]

Can anybody tell me if you can go to Camelback Ranch just to hang out and watch the Dodgers practice without paying anything? I want to go out there next weekend and take the kids, but I want to budget for the weekend. In other words do you have to pay just to get on the premises? Thanks for any info.

[Kevin Lewis]

Man, I like this Hollywood Joe more and more each day

[Hollywood Joe]

Briano
My understanding is that walking the grounds is free, but I have not been there so I could be very wrong and would hate to mislead

From the LAT article: (http://tinyurl.com/a9lm68)
"Go to the public workouts this month before the games start and players are more accessible. The proceedings in these couple of weeks have a more relaxed feeling, and players walking to and from practices are usually more open to chatting and signing.

Other upsides: Players tend to be on the field for a longer day, comparatively few fans are competing for the same signature and, of course, it doesn't cost anything. The downside is you don't get to see a game."

Hope this helps and if you do go, please write about your experiences upon your return

[Hollywood Joe]

Thx Kevin! Right back at you man

[Hollywood Dodger Mark]

Larry Bowa now.

[Kevin Lewis]

Are you trying to sick Larry Bowa on me?

[Gen3Blue]

Has the following possibility been discussed here. If Boras is Hudson's agent too, could he be pushing a package of both Hudson and Manny: Such as I'll help you out a bit with Manny if you help me get Hudson a decent pay-day. What a mess this makes of the ethics of having multiple clients.

[El Lay Dave]

HD Mark - if you mean as manager, there's a reason why Bowa has flamed out as a manager in two previous attempts at the job. If he's an asset, it's as an assistant, not as the top dog.

[Kevin Lewis]

Gen3,

I would hope the Dodgers would call him on that. That seems like it would be against the negotiating rules, but I could be naive here.

I like Hudson, but I like what we have already, as long as we add Manny. I just hope Hudson is not a replacement for Manny. I would rather save the pick and the money to try to get a power bat in the OF mid-season.

[SaMo]

I thought Torre retired after the 2007 season.

He has been half-hearted the whole time in Los Angeles. He didn't bother to meet the players on the roster before spring training, and therefore had no idea that Andre Ethier could hit lefties or that Juan Pierre had regressed since beating the Yankees in the 2003 World Series.

Now we learn that he's been writing a book about his time with the Yankees. I'm sure he only did that in his spare time, however, not when he should have been noticing that Brad Penny was too fat to pitch, or that Andruw Jones was earning more than $1 million per RBI, or that Mark Sweeney was hitting his weight. . . on Mars.

As for his successor, if the Dodgers stink in 2010, it won't be Ned appointing Torre's heir. If the kids progress as expected, the Dodgers should be a pennant contender for the long-term beginning in 2010 (Twenty-ten is my preference in nomenclature). A poor 2010 showing would indicate that a different approach is needed. Hopefully, it won't be Larry Bowa, however. He's never been successful anywhere with his drill sergeant style of coaching.

[underdog]

Harris, thanks -- cool anecdote about Gould. Yah, I knew about the book and the film, I was just trying to slyly reference it given this post's subject header. I love me some Raymond Chandler!

[Squeezy Turkey]

The biggest question here is..Do the Dodgers have any of the top players on their roster that we really need to watch out for in 2009? Kind of like Ryan Zimmerman of the Nats?
Hopefully this website comes out with a list of NL West just like this one!
http://www.rbimagazine.com/2009/02/5-nl-east-players-to-watch-for-2009/

[MC Safety]

I'm always up for an upgrade, and it seems Orlando (injury or not) is more than likely the better bet for 2009. How many wins would Manny and Orlando add, xeifrank?

[El Lay Dave]

Cot's Baseball Contracts (link in the salary portion of the sidebar) doesn't list an agent for Hudson, and he's usually on top of these things. A quick google search by me yielded no information either. Who is Orlando Hudson's agent? Keyser Soze?

[Dodgers49]

Briano

Also, this from Inside the Dodgers today:

>> The fans who have been showing up here have been rewarded nicely, as there's tons of access to autographs and opportunities to talk to the players. <<

http://insidethedodgers.mlblogs.com/

[Dodgers49]

Briano

Also, this from Tony Jackson today:

>> Fans are allowed to attend workout for free, and those workouts right now are starting at 10 a.m. every day. Joe Torre said he might push them up to 9 a.m. when the weather gets hotter, which is supposed to happen this week, but it still is pretty chilly around here in the early mornings. On game days, fans still are allowed to watch the workouts for free, but of course you'll have to have a ticket to get into the stadium, and I'm guessing there will be a parking charge, as well. <<

http://insidesocal.com/dodgers/

[Hollywood Joe]

Interesting perspective from the Keith Law Chat

Frank (Los Angeles, CA): Which of the young Dodgers position players (Kemp, Martin, Eithier and Loney) have the most upside remaining?

Keith Law: (1:37 PM ET ) Upside, Kemp. Loney has more probability of reaching his upside. Ethier is about at peak right now.

[Gen3Blue]

Kevin, I'm on board with all that. I sure hope it couldn't happen.

[regfairfield]

Squeezy, I'd say a good chunk of our roster counts.

Can Martin go back to being an elite player instead of a good one?
Can Kershaw step it up/not get hurt after a massive innings bump?
Can Kemp live up to his tools and go from a good player to a great one?
Can Loney not suck horribly again?