Boras' rejection of Ramirez offer riles Dodgers

At 8:30 p.m. tonight, the Dodgers made the rather unusual move of issuing a statement that shows their exasperation with Manny Ramirez's agent, Scott Boras:

BORAS REJECTS DODGERS
OFFER TO MANNY RAMIREZ

LOS ANGELES -- The Dodgers today received a letter from Scott Boras, the agent for Manny Ramirez, rejecting the offer that the club made yesterday.  This rejection is the fourth by the agent in the club’s attempts to sign Manny.

“We love Manny Ramirez,” said Dodgers Owner Frank McCourt, “And we want Manny back, but we feel we are negotiating against ourselves.  When his agent finds those ‘serious offers’ from other clubs, we’ll be happy to re-start the negotiations.

“Even with an economy that has substantially eroded since last November, out of respect for Manny and his talents, we actually improved our offer.

“So now, we start from scratch.”

It's interesting to note that the Dodgers aim their venom at Boras, even though ostensibly Boras is working for Ramirez. Of course, the natural explanations for this are 1) the Dodgers need to stay on Ramirez' good side in the event he does end up with the team, and 2) doubt about who's boss in the Boras-Ramirez relationship.

Anyway, for those (like me) who felt inside of 24 hours ago that Ramirez was signed, sealed and delivered, it's not the case.

This is the endgame for those who felt that a team like the Giants could take advantage of the stalemate between the Dodgers and Boras/Ramirez. But the fact remains that such a team still needs to top the Dodger offer. It's highly unlikely that Boras will take Ramirez to a lesser contract out of spite, when for all his beefs with the Dodgers, they've made him the top offer for Ramirez. What have the Giants done, after all, to earn Boras' good graces? 

Now, I'm not one of those who runs out of patience on these matters, nor am I someone who needs to see Boras take one on the chin.  But clearly, Boras has been challenged to show some cards. Will he succeed, and will he take the Dodgers' hopes of retaining their power-hitting left fielder with him?

Any team that has been laying in the weeds ready to take advantage of this situation with a bigger offer ... you almost have to wonder, what have they been waiting so long for, when Ramirez has been there for the taking all along.

Update: Some have answered my "good graces" question with "Barry Zito."  That contract is not relevant to this situation. Boras is not going to bring Ramirez to the Giants for less money just because they spent big on Zito, any more than he would do so for the Dodgers because they spent big on Darren Dreifort.

Update 2: Henry Schulman of the San Francisco Chronicle has an update from the Giants' end of things:

Giants president Larry Baer arrived in Arizona and addressed the issue but again declined to say whether the Giants have made a formal offer, instead saying they and Boras have discussed "concepts."

Those concepts are believed to include a unique contract, perhaps longer than two years, that provides "outs" for Ramirez and the Giants should either decide to part ways sooner. ...

There is one sign no deal is imminent. Baer said the Giants have not been asked to make an offer over the last couple of days.

If Ramirez were ready to sign, Boras almost certainly would phone the Giants to seek their best final offer to keep the negotiation wheel spinning. Boras did so with Joe Crede before the third baseman signed with Minnesota.

Comments

[MollyKnight]

Yes. Show us your hand, Scotty B.

[Eric Stephen]

Molly,

Perhaps you can enlist the services of your dog to point in the direction toward which Manny will sign?

[trainwreck]

Boras must be a fan of Days of Our Lives.

[MollyKnight]

Pirate actually just threw up. I'm not at all kidding.

[Mark]

This is freaking weak

[Tripon]

>>It's highly unlikely that Boras will take Ramirez to a lesser contract out of spite, when for all his beefs with the Dodgers, they've made him the top offer for Ramirez. What have the Giants done, after all, to earn Boras' good graces?

Barry Zito.

[Eric Stephen]

I'd like to know what was in the Boras letter. Is it as simple as a one-line rejection with no counter offer?

It would be kind of humorous if Boras simply used a stamp to mark the Dodgers' previous offer letter.

[MollyKnight]

And I would like to know who delivered that letter and if that man is dead.

[Bob Hendley]

People still write letters?

[Hollywood Joe]

disappointing

I continue to support the way the Dodgers are handling this

I think the quotes you pulled out of the release echo many of the things said here over the last several days

I am really surprised that this offer didn't get the deal done. It was a generous offer

[MollyKnight]

Hehehe. I love how that photo Jon just posted makes it look like Boras is about to take a giant axe to the neck.

[regfairfield]

I never noticed how square Boras' head is.

[Tripon]

I thought Jon has web monkeys to put up the photos for him.

[trainwreck]

We can get you a club card if that will seal the deal, Manny.

[Eric Stephen]

Molly,

I think Locke's driver delivered the letter.

It would be really cool to have a wall like that with all baseballs.

[Bob Hendley]

Something tells me that Boras is not the problem here.

[Jon Weisman]

Tripon, 8:47

Zito is irrelevant. There is no way that the ancient history of the Barry Zito contract would influence Scott Boras to take a lesser deal for Ramirez than what the Dodgers are offering. The Giants are going to have to top the Dodger offer to get him.

[Dodger-Robert]

Oh boy. It seems like boras is trying to scare the dodgers into a 3+ year deal for Manny. I don't think they will be intimidated though. Personally I'm ok with a long deal as I doubt his legs are going to fall off 2 years from now, and even if they do his offense will more than make up for it. We can survive without him, but I'd rather have him no matter what the cost. Suck it up and pay, McCort, he a good revenue generator.

[jasonungar]

I'm shocked and bummed. The drama of this sucks because I can't handle Juan Pierre. it's that almost more than having Manny at this point. Darn it 600 times I want to tune into an at bat in 09 not change the channel for a second on purpose..But yeah I mean what on earth is Boras doing? Is he playing chicken now?

[Jon Weisman]

Sometimes they put up the photos, sometimes I do.

Doesn't LAT get involved when it comes to messengering?

[Eric Stephen]

I don't think this ends the negotiations by any means, but it certainly is frustrating.

Plus, I don't like the timing of this since I just finished a Chad piece and this preempted it. :(

[LAT]

Not to long ago, I was in a mediation where the mediator (who was some high priced JAMS guy) came to us after we had put a substantial figure on the table and said "I just need $$$$ more from you and I can settle this case." Reluctantly we gave it to him. A few minutes later he came back and said, "Sorry that wasn't enough, I just need $$$ more." We got up and left.

I wonder if Frank has had it because Boras signaled him that he would take last night's offer if the Dodgers formally put it on the table. made if formal.

Either way, if I were Frank I too would put the brakes to this whole thing. Boras may have another team in the wings who can better the Dodger's offer but I don't think so. It is negotiation 101 that you don't bid against yourself. I hope this is A-Rod part Doux and Manny comes back to the Dodgers sans Boras.

Last thought, In some sense Boras has done Frank a favor. The Manny camp looks so unreasonable and is jerking the Dodgers around so badly that if he does sign elsewhere, this conduct will blunt the fans reaction of not getting him.

[regfairfield]

If the Giants are actually out, is there any other team that affords and needs Manny?

[Hollywood Joe]

"It's highly unlikely that Boras will take Ramirez to a lesser contract out of spite"

Not good business for Boras if Manny signs anywhere for less than 2 / $45M. I can't see either of them taking less

It would be better for them to wait until the season starts and pray for injury then to sign for less now

The big market clubs should be on the look out for Boras bribed groundskeeper digging booby traps in the OF grass

[trainwreck]

It is funny you bring up Lost, Eric S, because this seems to have turned into an epic war between good and evil.

[Eric Stephen]

>>>>Doesn't LAT get involved when it comes to messengering?<<<<

But for his safety he was exempted from this delivery. :)

[trainwreck]

And I am not sure if anyone is actually the good side.

[Bob Hendley]

The O's were in the Tex sweepstakes, so perhaps they have the money and the need.

[lurker fabulous]

Why do some poster's names appear in bold and others' don't?

[trainwreck]

I am always weary of Hank Steinbrenner.

[Hollywood Joe]

"Boras may have another team in the wings who can better the Dodger's offer but I don't think so"

I don't think so either, or else that team would have made an offer already

No one who gave Boras a better offer than the Dodgers would be content watching the progression of the negoitiations -- that offer would be rescinded

[tubetown]

"What have the Giants done, after all, to earn Boras' good graces?"

Two words: Barry Zito. Boras oughta give them Manny at the league minimum for taking on that contract.

[Jon Weisman]

LAT, 8:56 p.m.

I agree with you.

[Landonkk]

I am astounded. Wow. Kudos to Ned and Co. on both standing their ground and publicly calling Boras out.

What a swing... for 24+ hours I was trying to come to grips with Boras saving face by assuring myself that with Manny the NL West was ours - now I have to flip that and tell myself 'at least Boras will FAIL (bt we have JP in LF)."

[regfairfield]

Roberts, Weiters, Markakis, Manny does seem like a nice core.

Still can't pitch and have the three best teams in baseball to deal with.

[Hollywood Joe]

"Two words: Barry Zito. Boras oughta give them Manny at the league minimum for taking on that contract."

But how would Manny feel about that? Getting a lesser offer?

How would Boras other clients view that, returning an old favor by getting a client less?

There is NO WAY I can see him doing that without harming his client and his business

Boras is human, he makes mistakes, but he doesn't do bad business and that would be bad business

[Jon Weisman]

Tubetown:

I see your Barry Zito and raise you Darren Dreifort.

[VA Blueblood]

For pete's sake, nobody else has $20 million to spend right now! This is ridiculous. I agree in one sense that the Dodgers have played this a lot better than they might have with Flanders in charge, but I remain frustrated in that I wish we had this venom when Dunn was still on the table. And yeah, I am one to want Boras to take it on the chin. Just look at him smirking there with all his balls. I seriously hate that guy.

Anyhow, I'm picturing Manny coming out of his herbage haze at about 2pm tomorrow with a vague memory of sending a letter somewhere...

[Jon Weisman]

How exactly is Boras going to explain to Ramirez, "I'm taking you to San Francisco for less money because Barry Zito failed to deliver."

[Tripon]

Posted by: Jon Weisman | February 26, 2009 at 08:54 PM

Sure Jon, but you have to admit that the Giants have a much better relationship with Boras then the Dodgers do at the moment. The Barry Zito signing might be 'ancient' history, but you asked what did the Giants do to get into Scott Boras' good graces, and signing the biggest contract for a pitcher at the time certainly does that.

Obviously the Giants have to top the Dodgers current offer,(which, I don't think they will). But I'm not sure that's not even the Giants endgame here, it seems to me that they're trying their best to drag out this thing as far as possible without getting snake bitten. I have to say they're doing a good job of it so far.

[trainwreck]

I wouldn't be surprised if Manny has no idea what is going on.

[Hollywood Joe]

Jon @ 9:06 - always a voice of reason

This is a play for more from Boras and Manny, not less

Manny won't sign for less as long as this amount is available to him

[Bob Hendley]

Yeah, the O's needs are greater elsewhere and even with Manny they wouldn't be competitive with the top three. On the other hand, people are starting to leave Camden Yards in droves and Angelos may feel the need to spend some money to show commitment to the fans. I would think that the Angels, who were also in the Tex sweepstakes have filled their need at a lower price and the Nats as the other team in the race don't seem to be in a situation in the front office to pull off anything at this point.

[Mr. Angry]

"What have the Giants done, after all, to earn Boras' good graces?"

Seriously? Is your memory that short?

Two guys named Barry have put a crapload of money in Boras' pocket by way of the Giants. He may figure he owes Sabean a solid and if it gives him a chance to give the finger to the Dodgers so much the better.

Me....I'd rather not have another prima-donna with minimal range in left field. But I'd rather pencil in 40 dingers for the Giants than for the Dodgers.

[Louis]

The Dodgers need to move on. If all the hype is to be believed the youngsters should be ready to come into their own. It's the third year for Martin, Loney, Kemp et al., they should be ready to show the fans what they got. Otherwise Colleti should be fired for not trading them when they were fresher.

[Ton-Ton]

To have a bold name just register your screen name.

[Hollywood Joe]

Side thought

We hear all this noise about Manny working out and being ready. Imagine while working out or driving his car he injures himself severely - *poof* $45M gone

While I know that Manny's childrens children children are set for life with all that he has made in his career, $45M is still some serious scratch; that is an expensive game of chicken they are playing

[regfairfield]

I'd be okay with a primadonna if he was the best player in baseball like 11 of the last 15 years. Sabean probably didn't learn any harsh lessons from Barry.

[regfairfield]

I still have a feeling that Manny's probably content with kickin' it with Raul.

[Jon Weisman]

Tripon 9:07

I guess I assumed when I asked the "good graces" question that it was limited to what was relevant in this situation. But I guess that wasn't clear.

Just this afternoon, the Giants' president "told reporters that during the current national economic crisis, he doesn't buy Boras' long-standing argument that a player with Ramirez's star quality will pay for himself in terms of ticket sales and merchandising revenue." (http://www.sgvtribune.com/sports/ci_11795915) So it's not exactly as if they're exchanging Valentines.

Anyway, of course it makes sense for the Giants to try to prolong the Dodgers' agony. But in the end, this is all about the money, and Zito is irrelevant.

[trainwreck]

Laying on the beach getting drunk and stoned, plus fornicating, probably won't get him injured.

[Bob Hendley]

I think Boras took an offer to Manny that he thought he should sign. Perhaps he didn't spend enough time beforehand deflating expectations and his own over-selling job.

[Hollywood Joe]

Louis - Why do the Dodgers need to move on? What is wrong with sitting tight?

No fast moves seems to be the wisest course of action here

If you let negoitiations get you personal, if you let these things get you angry, then you cannot effectively act in your own best interest

If the Dodgers can get Manny a week from now for a strikingly similar deal or some acceptable variation why wouldn't they?

[thinkblue0]

wouldn't it be unbelievable if there are no other offers and boras has to come back to accept something like a 1 year 18 mill offer?

[Hollywood Joe]

"Laying on the beach getting drunk and stoned, plus fornicating, probably won't get him injured."

One time, at band camp....

[bigyoonit]

We'll be hearing Boras's cries of collusion any day now.

[Hollywood Joe]

Flipping fantastick fabulously fresh froglegs!

[Eric Stephen]

"Kicking it with Raul" would be a great book title*.

*I'm assuming Jon doesn't have a chapter in his book with that title, of course.

[regfairfield]

I messed up my shoulder chocolate wrestling a couple weeks ago. Anything is possible.

[Jon Weisman]

Okay, I don't know what made people think they could suddenly start violating rule 1 of this site, but knock it off. I don't want to spend the rest of my evening deleting comments.

[Bob Hendley]

Move on in this case means to give Beard some time in the outfield during ST, since I don't see any other deals out there.

[Hollywood Joe]

oops

Didn't mean to cut and paste the violation from the other post - appologies Jon

[Dodger-Robert]

"If you haven't tested positive then you certainly weren't trying hard enough"

You know what? That is sad but unquestionably true. I'm getting ready for the day the rest of that list is dumped onto the public.

[Kevin Lewis]

Now I am just confused.

[Sac Town Dodger Fan]

Im pretty sure the Dodgers front office has broken enough rule 1 violations for all of us tonight.

This feels like Jack Clark, Joe Morgan and Matt Stairs all over again.

[Dodger-Robert]

"Okay, I don't know what made people think they could suddenly start violating rule 1 of this site, but knock it off. I don't want to spend the rest of my evening deleting comments."

Sorry if that was meant for me, I was using it in reference to 'donkeys' and wasn't sure it was really a bad word! Won't happen again!

[Jon Weisman]

Here's the latest from the San Francisco Chronicle:

Giants president Larry Baer arrived in Arizona and addressed the issue but again declined to say whether the Giants have made a formal offer, instead saying they and Boras have discussed "concepts."

Those concepts are believed to include a unique contract, perhaps longer than two years, that provides "outs" for Ramirez and the Giants should either decide to part ways sooner.

http://tinyurl.com/bjeeyy

[Jacob l]

I'm bummed about this in a way that only a Cal Bear hoops victory can redeem.

[trainwreck]

And Aboya gives me a sigh of relief.

[soxfaninla]

Hey guys - transplant from Boston here. Good luck with this bozo and his agent. Can't wait until he pulls the mysterious hammy. He did it seven years in a row for us. Yes, a great hitter, but be prepared for the baggage once he is signed
Good Luck this year, especially since you in the NL

[Bob Hendley]

Like I need another reason to hate the Giants?

[The Dodger Fan Base]

Jon Weisman is a complete sellout and ruined a good thing by moving to the LA times

[Jon Weisman]

We're prepared for the baggage - thanks.

[Chris]

Jon, you're so right about the venom the Dodgers have for Boras. I particuarly love how they refer to him as "his agent" in the statement and not by name.

And as a PR guy, I love this move by the Dodgers. It shows their feelings and makes Boras look greedy and insensitive (sending a letter vs. calling Ned). The challenge to show the other "serious offers" is classic. Hopefully it won't blow up in the Dodgers' faces, but they're showing their cards in good faith. Love it.

[Tripon]

I believe Jon is averaging at least one 'sellout' comment per day.

My question is how should it be ruled. A single, double, triple, or home run?

[Bob Hendley]

soxfaninla |

You might be barking up the wrong blog. Try McCovey Chronicles.

[who is karim garcia?]

I'm upset.

[Peter Rosenberg]

My knee jerk reaction is screw Manny and screw Boras.
Unfortunately, the energy and excitement "99" brought to my beloved Dodgers last summer was just what this team needs.
We just do not need to have this mini soap opera going on when we should be getting ready for the '09 season.
For crying out loud this is L.A., we need a superstar in the mold of my other favorite "99", the Great One, since retired and not forgotten, Wayne Gretsky; we'll leave the Kings for another day!

[Mr_Blue]

I have been calling Frank...McCheap throughout this extended period of misery. At this point I am restoring him to McCourt and hoping that he just slams the door in their face. We don't have enough SP to be competitive anyway, so let's just call it a lost season and a lesson learned. I think this is more on Manny than Boras now, but I sayto whomever's letter that was... go away and stay away.

[mwhite06]

I'm suprised. It was pointed out by several people today that the offer already made to Manny may well be "over-paying." I never thought that offer was going to be turned down. The Dodgers should close ranks, consider their options (like moving the beard to left-field) and wait for the price to move back down to the appropriate market price.

[Ton-Ton]

Are the comments still monitored before being posted?

[Tripon]

Also, Vic the Brick has egg on his face.

[Jon Weisman]

9:35 p.m.

Yeah, as I've said before, I am a complete sellout. But if you have specific complaints about the site, please feel free to list them.

[Eric Stephen]

Who is Karim Garcia,

Nice to see you post over here now. Or have you been commenting under the radar?

[BHSportsguy]

The Dodgers are doing something similar to what Boston did after they all flew down to Texas to meet Teixeira, they did not buy the notion that there was another buyer out there so they made a public stand and left town.

Then the Yankees signed Teixeira.

Now this is different, there has not been one other team that anyone in the media has picked up on that has made an offer to Manny. Now the Giants say they have discussed "concepts." Unless those concepts include shares in the team (which they can't do anyway) I don't what they are talking about.

And what does this really change anyway, the Dodgers and Manny are right back where they were a few days ago.

Maybe Manny wants the 4 year deal guaranteed. Well he's not going to get that. And I do think Scott Boras believes the best financial deal is the one year with the player opt out.

So I think there is a little dispute between client and agent.

I believe the Dodgers (McCourt and Ned) know what Scott Boras's wants and they gave it to him last night. Now its come down to what Manny wants. And we may just have to wait and while and see if we hear about that anytime soon.

[Eric Stephen]

>>>>Also, Vic the Brick has egg on his face<<<<

Why? It's not Friday yet. :)

[ucladodger]

Man, i just cant believe Manny turned it down. I really thought this offer would reel him in considering its the best of everything for him. Now what is he going to take from San Fran? 3 years 18 mil a year with options after the first two years? If he wanted money, this was the offer. If he wanted flexibility, this was the offer. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

[kinbote]

I was actually glad to see the offer was turned down. I didn't like it. I much preferred the imaginary 3y/$65-70 mil deal that actually made baseball sense.

At this point I would walk away. Just like with Arod-or-bust a couple years ago, my opinion is that no one player is worth this much hassle.

[thinkblue0]

the sellout comments crack me up seeing as how essentially it's the exact same site. If it puts Jon in a better situation, more power to him.

As long as we have our Dodgerthoughts, who cares?

[sporky]

I remember reading that the Yankees maxed out the number of Type A/B free agents they can sign. Can anyone confirm this?

[Jon Weisman]

I still don't get how it's better for the Dodgers to guarantee more years and more money for Manny.

[Dean]

Of the $81 million the Dodgers have in salary, almost $20 million is in "dead money". Penny and Jones are obviously giving the Dodgers nothing and Schmidt is not a likely suspect to do much either.

[mwhite06]

Sporky, I believe that rumor has been debunked.

[natepurcell]

Back to the drawing board....

3yrs 63il

2009- 25mil
2010-20mil
2011-18mil

*Manny has ability to opt out after 2009 season ONLY

*2011 season is a team option that becomes guaranteed if Manny reaches 550PAs in 2010 season

This covers everyone. I should be a mediator.

[sporky]

To answer my own question, the Yankees did reach the free agent quota.

http://tinyurl.com/ccbb77

Google is my co-pilot.

[Kevin Maxwell]

I have been wondering if SB could be working on another team or two with a 4-6 year heavily back loaded contract. Who's to say that some teams conserving cash for the next 2-3 years may not be willing to do the 4-6 at $25M/per, with most of it kicking in after the 2nd or 3rd yr. or even longer? I think that I would be attempting to make this pitch if I were SB. It would provide the overall dollars that Manny thinks he deserves, makes SB a man of his word given his original A-Rod scenario. This also facilitates financial flexibility for a franchise that has topped out on the budget that they had projected for the upcoming few years but may have a real need of a DH of Manny’s capabilities in the upcoming years. Ultimately, SB wants to write one more contract for Manny that gives the player his final golden parachute contract. He doesn’t want to risk Manny being injured or having any performance decline, which is simply a physical and neurological reality for most ball players of Manny’s age. I think that even if Manny sits out till July, someone will become willing, either by personnel changes they incur, or simply by seeing they way to improve their club. For SB and Manny, they can also afford to wait for the rest of baseball to forgive Manny’s unethical and immature Beantown exit and let the economic times settle a bit while the rest of the major league teams evaluate the pat hand that they are currently holding onto.

[mwhite06]

Nate, Manny is 37 years old with bad knees and attitude problems. IMO, The Dodgers should not panic and up the offer.

[kinbote]

Jon--Our window of opportunity with this current core of players would appear to be within the next three years. I don't like the one-year contract because it puts all the pressure on 2009. I might be wrong.

Also, get ready for some traffic. For whatever reason, www.mlbtraderumors.com is linking to your site at the top of their page (in the Dodgers press release update on Manny).

[Jon Weisman]

You know, there's a weird similarity between the Boras picture and my picture.

[sporky]

Just kidding. The Internet lied to me.