Still
October 29, 2008 | 11:42
am
I still can't get myself past the belief that if Rafael Furcal doesn't throw that ball away in the first game of the National League Championship Series, then the baseball world would have spent the past weekend treated to some of the warmest World Series weather you could ever want.
1. By the end of November or so, there is a very real chance that 24-year old Jonathan Broxton will be the longest-tenured Dodger (using MLB time, not 40-man time).
Broxton debuted with the Dodgers on July 29, 2005, and everyone that was here prior to that has a tenuous future with the club:
Penny (8/3/04): exercise of option still up in the air
Brazoban (8/15/04): likely to be non-tendered; arbitration eligible but out of options
Kent (4/5/05): likely retired
Repko (4/6/05): likely to be non-tendered; arbitration eligible but out of options
Posted by: Eric Stephen | October 29, 2008 at 11:47 AM
2. Or if Loney and Manny had just a little more loft then length.
Posted by: ToyCannon | October 29, 2008 at 11:47 AM
3. Lowe was cruising in that game! Then, in a matter of minutes he was finished. Such craziness is this game we love.
Posted by: Eric Stephen | October 29, 2008 at 11:48 AM
4. 2
Or if Manny's ball was what, 3 feet to the right? He crushed that ball off Hamels.
Posted by: Eric Stephen | October 29, 2008 at 11:49 AM
5. 4
You need to say that in more the style of Charlie Brown circa 1962.
Posted by: Bob Timmermann | October 29, 2008 at 11:52 AM
6. 1 - That's really amazing.
Posted by: Jon Weisman | October 29, 2008 at 11:54 AM
7. 4 Shouldn't that be 3 feet to the left, or am I suffering from visual memory dyslexia?
Posted by: Jim Hitchcock | October 29, 2008 at 11:54 AM
8. If Loney doesnt hit the Grand Slam, maybe the Dodgers dont even get out of the 1st round.
Whosetosaybermetrics...
Posted by: JoeyP | October 29, 2008 at 11:54 AM
9. 5 I do think I said "Auuuuuggggggghhh!" when that happened.
--
(LAT'd)
My obelisk is like Spinal Tap's Stonehenge piece compared to Bob's real Stonehenge-sized obelisk, but I'm working on it.
Posted by: underdog | October 29, 2008 at 11:58 AM
10. If Manny's parents hadn't met, and...
then...
Posted by: underdog | October 29, 2008 at 11:59 AM
11. 9 Speaking of that, is your pod ready yet?
Posted by: Jim Hitchcock | October 29, 2008 at 11:59 AM
12. 7
I'm thinking viewing from home plate, if the ball was a few more feet to the right, towards right field, it would not have subject to the high wall but rather the shorter wall.
Posted by: Eric Stephen | October 29, 2008 at 12:00 PM
13. When Jon first brought up the Furcal Game #1 error as a turning point in the series, I thought that he was being a bit premature and negative.
But looking back at the series now, the Dodgers never had a realistic series advantage again after that single play.
They appeared to have a great shot at tying the series before the Victorino HR in game #4, but I never got that feeling like the team was destined to make the World Series after the Game #2 loss.
When Lowe was cruising with that 2-0 lead, the series seemed very winnable to me. Lowe had such a great history of shutting down teams in the post-season. Everything was going as planned.
Baseball is a funny game.
Posted by: Gilberto Reyes | October 29, 2008 at 12:01 PM
14. 11 --??
My ipod?
My invasion of the body snatchers pod?
Posted by: underdog | October 29, 2008 at 12:02 PM
15. My point about the Furcal play is that it was so routine, yet so huge. I don't think anything in the postseason compares to it.
I'm not under any illusion that the Dodgers didn't benefit from similar breaks.
Posted by: Jon Weisman | October 29, 2008 at 12:02 PM
16. If Manny's Game #1 blast is a HR, that would have only meant the score is 3-3 after Lowe gives up the HR to Burrell.
The game would have been left up to the bullpens, and Philly's pen was definitely superior in the series.
Posted by: Gilberto Reyes | October 29, 2008 at 12:06 PM
17. 14 The pod that Harry Shearer got stuck in :)
Posted by: Jim Hitchcock | October 29, 2008 at 12:08 PM
18. 15 I agree. It turned out to be a huge play. Primarily because the Phillies took full advantage of it.
Compare that to the Ryan Howard error on the bunt in Game #4. The Dodgers had every opportunity to put that game away right there but could not.
Posted by: Gilberto Reyes | October 29, 2008 at 12:09 PM
19. 5
Bob, I've never seen any highlights other than McCovey's lineout to end the series. Did Matty Alou have a chance to score on Mays' double?
Posted by: Eric Stephen | October 29, 2008 at 12:12 PM
20. 17 Oh! Hah hah. At least I'm not one of their drummers.
In ancient times, hundreds of years before the dawn of history, an ancient race of people... the Druids. No one knows who they were or what they were doing...
Which reminds me, has Bill Plaschke been fired yet?
Did everyone read the last FJM post about him?
Posted by: underdog | October 29, 2008 at 12:13 PM
21. I think the young Dodgers learned a lot from the NLCS. If the front office can make some smart moves in the off-season, I look forward to a lot of redemption in next year's playoffs!
Posted by: Harold M Johnson | October 29, 2008 at 12:16 PM
22. The more I think about it, the more depressed I am about the way the season ended. The team we had on the field in October was the strongest Dodger team in decades, and it is likely stronger than any Dodger team will be in the foreseeable future. To paraphrase the great philosopher Marshall Mathers, this was our one shot, our one opportunity, and we blew our chance.
Posted by: Eric Enders | October 29, 2008 at 12:16 PM
23. 22 I think the '95 Dodgers might have a case for that.
Posted by: regfairfield | October 29, 2008 at 12:23 PM
24. 19 Roger Maris made a great play in right field on the double; from everything I've seen, it would have been a close play at the plate. Matty certainly would have scored if there'd been an average defender in right.
Really, that inning is a lesson in the perils of the bunt. Felipe Alou tried to sacrifice and failed twice, getting himself in an 0-2 hole, and then struck out for the first out of the inning. There's a very real possibility that the Giants win the World Series if they don't try to sacrifice there.
At least we can take comfort in the fact that the phrase "World Champion San Francisco Giants" has never been uttered in truth.
Posted by: Eric Enders | October 29, 2008 at 12:23 PM
25. 22 Aye, there's was rub.
Posted by: Jim Hitchcock | October 29, 2008 at 12:25 PM
26. 22
Turn that frown upside down. 2009 is shaping up more and more like 1988:
1) The Dodger LF will win league MVP
2) A Dodger pitcher, whose previous team was Milwaukee, will win 17 games and get a game-winning hit against the Giants
3) A Dodger pitcher, in his 2nd year in MLB, will start Game 1 of the World Series
Posted by: Eric Stephen | October 29, 2008 at 12:28 PM
27. "3) A Dodger pitcher, in his 2nd year in MLB, will start Game 1 of the World Series"
And give up a killer grand slam to a steroid freak!
Posted by: Eric Enders | October 29, 2008 at 12:31 PM
28. 22 I agree that this playoff team with a peaking Manny and other key players who are unlikely to return such as D-Lowe, gave the Dodgers a rare and very realistic shot at winning it all.
But I would not call the ending depressing. Very disappointing, but the reality is the team was fortunate to play in a horrible NL West which allowed them to even make the playoffs.
It was definitely a great opportunity lost. The hope is that is won't take another 20 years again to get this close.
Posted by: Gilberto Reyes | October 29, 2008 at 12:40 PM
29. I am interested to see Eric Gordon tonight. I saw him play a few times in high school and was always really impressed and while he did not do as well in college as expected, I still think he was worthy of a top 5 pick.
Posted by: trainwreck | October 29, 2008 at 12:41 PM
30. Gordon with Indiana was one of the poorest decision-makers I've ever seen for such a marquee player. He got his you-know-what handed to him against strong college competition and I have to think the same will be true in the NBA.
Posted by: Eric Enders | October 29, 2008 at 12:43 PM
31. 30
I think not being the man and having Davis to open things up for him will be huge for him. He can just have that scoring mentality. He will get a lot of open jumpers.
Posted by: trainwreck | October 29, 2008 at 12:47 PM
32. 30
Maybe, but in pre-season he was amazing in the 4th quarter. Might have the best pure shot I've seen on the Clippers in a many a moon.
He was only a freshman last year, bad decision making goes with the territory doesn't it when you are the only gun in high school and distribution is not something you really need to think about?
Posted by: ToyCannon | October 29, 2008 at 12:50 PM
33. 32 Sure, freshmen will be freshmen, but I still thought Gordon's basketball IQ was several notches below that of other freshmen like Mayo, Derrick Rose, Patty Mills, etc.
Posted by: Eric Enders | October 29, 2008 at 12:54 PM
34. Bill Simmons, Clipper season ticket holder, is very high on Gordon:
Eric Gordon's beautiful, moonball, knee-weakening, once-in-a-generation jump shot. It's just perfect. I love it. I love everything about it. Every time he shoots it, the Clippers crowd goes quiet for a split-second like one of the cheerleaders just pulled up her shirt. Even the spin is gorgeous. I can't say enough about it. I am in love with Eric Gordon's jump shot. I want to marry it. I want to have kids with it. I will go to at least one practice or shootaround this year just to see him hoist 200 of them. And by the way, the kid is going to be great -- he's bigger than I thought, and when he drives to the lane, defenders just bounce off him. He will end up being the third-best guy in that draft
Posted by: Eric Stephen | October 29, 2008 at 12:57 PM
35. 32
He was actually a great distributor in high school, which is one of the reasons I really liked him. He was complete back then. I think he can eventually get back to that.
Posted by: trainwreck | October 29, 2008 at 01:04 PM
36. 18
It also didn't help that russell and Blake hit two shots with at least runners on second and thrid that were caught. Even though the series was pretty lopsided in the final score (4-1), there were so many little things that would have changed the entire complexion of the series for the Dodgers. Manny's almost homer, Furcal's error, the shots that were caught in game 4, taking out Kuo. Ugh, just thinking about it gets me upset.
Posted by: ucladodger | October 29, 2008 at 01:04 PM
37. Gordon honestly reminded me of a less athletic version of Baron Davis. And most players are less athletic than Davis.
Posted by: trainwreck | October 29, 2008 at 01:06 PM
38. How's this for next year's lineup?
Furcal SS
Martin C
Manny LF
Ethier RF
Kemp CF
Crede 3B
Loney 1B
DeWitt 2B
Posted by: Harold M Johnson | October 29, 2008 at 01:14 PM
39. Crede, ugh. If that's what we're reduced to, I'd rather just play DeWitt at third. They're even as defenders and not all that far from being even as hitters, too.
Age 31, career .306 OPB... no thanks.
Posted by: Eric Enders | October 29, 2008 at 01:18 PM
40. Argentina named Diego Maradona as its national coach.
May God have mercy on their souls.
Posted by: Bob Timmermann | October 29, 2008 at 01:18 PM
41. Yeah, don't they remember when Magic Johnson coached the Lakers.
Posted by: trainwreck | October 29, 2008 at 01:20 PM
42. I guess it's not always sunny in Philedelphia.
Posted by: Gagne55 | October 29, 2008 at 01:21 PM
43. 40 Lol.
Posted by: MC Safety | October 29, 2008 at 01:22 PM
44. If Citizens Bank Park uses the same parking receipts that Dodger Stadium uses, I don't see how anyone cannot get free parking tonight.
Dodger Stadium just gives you the same blue receipt (for GA parking), if you have season tix parking, you should have that stub already.
http://tinyurl.com/5v6vqq
Posted by: bhsportsguy | October 29, 2008 at 01:24 PM
45. Things I thought about for tonight's game.
1. No announcement of "starting" lineup.
2. No National Anthem or First pitch.
3. When do they stop selling alcohol at the game?
4. 7th inning stretch?
Posted by: bhsportsguy | October 29, 2008 at 01:28 PM
46. 45
My guesses
1) Only on the PA
2) There will be an anthem
3) Same alcohol policy applies
4) Yes
Posted by: Bob Timmermann | October 29, 2008 at 01:30 PM
47. 40 Oh good lord... Buena suerte.
In other better news, from the we-hate-the-Pats dept., Vince Woolfork may get fined or suspended after all for his cheap shot at Jay Cutler last week. An elbow to the head after an interception, wasn't caught on ESPN but it was caught by NFL Network. Punk.
--
Speaking of rain... It's supposed to rain up here on Halloween, which sucks. (Even though we do need the rain.)
Posted by: underdog | October 29, 2008 at 01:30 PM
48. 45. Headline on Philly.com:
Will there be beer?
http://tinyurl.com/phillybeer
"Today is considered a new event," he said.
So the cutoff would be after seven more innings - which means the brew won't stop flowing unless a handful of extra innings are played.
Posted by: Sam PHL | October 29, 2008 at 01:33 PM
49. 0
I try not to think about it too much.
Posted by: Kevin Lewis | October 29, 2008 at 01:38 PM
50. 48 - Isn't a major reason for cutting off sales to help people have a snowball's chance of driving home safely?
Posted by: Jon Weisman | October 29, 2008 at 01:39 PM
51. 50. This city will not be safe if the Phillies win.
Posted by: Sam PHL | October 29, 2008 at 01:41 PM
52. 46 I bet Fox will run down the starting lineup for each team as a reminder. From a broadcasting perspective, they really have to treat it like an entirely new game because the audience will be different from Monday night's.
Posted by: Eric Enders | October 29, 2008 at 01:41 PM
53. Although I've heard good ideas here about how the game should get underway at 8ET without much fuss, I just assume the branes at Fox and MLB will mess around until about 8:40. It wouldn't do if the last game didn't kill about 2 hours minimum.
And the spelling is intentional, as Stephen Hawkings once suggested that we live in a P-brane universe.
Posted by: Gen3Blue | October 29, 2008 at 01:42 PM
54. 50 Lets pray for an 18 inning game?
Posted by: Tripon | October 29, 2008 at 01:42 PM
55. 48 I had to think they would do that.
Posted by: bhsportsguy | October 29, 2008 at 01:43 PM
56. Obama's doing the pre-game.
Posted by: Sam PHL | October 29, 2008 at 01:44 PM
57. 50 Yeah, but this is Philly, where being drunk and obnoxious at sporting events is akin to a constitutional right.
My favorite Philly fact: Veterans Stadium is the only MLB park ever to have an actual city police precinct located inside it, with a jail and everything. And boy did they need it. I guess the new park is a bit more gentrified. But only a bit.
Posted by: Eric Enders | October 29, 2008 at 01:44 PM
58. 53 - 8:40 p.m.? You mean as opposed to the scheduled start of 8:37 p.m.?
Posted by: Jon Weisman | October 29, 2008 at 01:45 PM
59. 53
Actually, you will be watching a 30-minute Obama infomercial before the game resumes. There will just be minimal pregame chatter.
Although I don't know if the commercial is going to be timed to play simultaneously throughout the U.S.
Posted by: Bob Timmermann | October 29, 2008 at 01:45 PM
60. 51
The city will be less safe if Tampa Bay wins I predict.
Posted by: Bob Timmermann | October 29, 2008 at 01:46 PM
61. The pre-game will be new tonight.
Posted by: Kevin Lewis | October 29, 2008 at 01:46 PM
62. 60. The city would survive. The hypothetical Rays fans would not be safe.
Posted by: Sam PHL | October 29, 2008 at 01:49 PM
63. 58 It's not much but I'd still bet I'm closer.
Posted by: Gen3Blue | October 29, 2008 at 01:49 PM
64. We've got blue skies here in Philly, but my flag football game just got cancelled due to poor field conditions. I wonder how the grass is at the ballpark.
Posted by: Ghost of Carlos Perez | October 29, 2008 at 02:02 PM
65. I've been thinking the same thing. I'm telling you: that error was similar to the play where JD Drew and Jeff Kent got tagged out at home on the same play in game 1 of the NLDS two years ago. Neither plays resulted in the Dodgers giving up the lead, but you knew in an instant that losing the game and the series was an inevitability.
(I was at both games). (And those two plays were equally crushing).
Posted by: MollyKnight | October 29, 2008 at 02:02 PM
66. 65 - I think "inevitability" is too strong - but it did make me queasy.
Posted by: Jon Weisman | October 29, 2008 at 02:04 PM
67. http://tinyurl.com/62d3en
Among the Type A Free agents:
Doug Brocail, Jason Isringhausen, & Juan Cruz.
Can this be accurate?
Posted by: JoeyP | October 29, 2008 at 02:11 PM
68. 0
If you are right Jon, then in a way, I am also right. I said Hu, if given a chance to play, would be the difference maker.
Posted by: Bumsrap | October 29, 2008 at 02:16 PM
69. 67 Scott Proctor was a Type A in 2007.
Posted by: bhsportsguy | October 29, 2008 at 02:18 PM
70. 53 - H-a-w-k-i-n-g.
Posted by: scareduck | October 29, 2008 at 02:18 PM
71. 67
Here are the stats used to rank relievers:
Total Games (Games Relieved +2*Games Started)
IP**
Wins+Saves
IP/H
K/BB
ERA
**Innings Pitched are given just 75% of the weight of the other relief categories
Posted by: Eric Stephen | October 29, 2008 at 02:19 PM
72. brad(detroit): Jim, hear me out. If the Dodgers are unable to resign Manny, wouldn't it make sense for them to go after Magglio? The Tigers want to dump some payroll and they could probably even eat some of Magglio's remaining contract. Would a package of James McDonald and DeJesus be fair? What about Maggs straight up for Russ Martin? I understand they Dodgers are actually looking to trade him while the Tigers desperately need a catcher.
SportsNation Jim Callis: It all depends on how much of Ordonez' contract the Tigers would pick up. But honestly, the Dodgers already have more outfielders than they know what to do with, so I don't see them adding Magglio.
For just another catcher, everyone seems to want Martin.
Posted by: Tripon | October 29, 2008 at 02:20 PM
73. Charlie Manual may freeze solid tonight.
Posted by: Marty | October 29, 2008 at 02:21 PM
74. I wonder how many teams have given up their first round pick in order to sign a middle reliever?
Posted by: JoeyP | October 29, 2008 at 02:22 PM
75. If that list turns out to be accurate, it's awful for the Dodgers. Penny, Blake, and Kent as Type B's, and Furcal and Nomar as no compensation whatsoever. I figured Blake would be a Type A for sure.
Really, though, that whole list is just somebody's wild guess. The rankings haven't been released yet, and they can't really be simulated since they're calculated using a proprietary Elias formula that isn't made public and which makes no sense to anyone except Steve Hirdt.
Posted by: Eric Enders | October 29, 2008 at 02:23 PM
76. Wins+Saves
Awesome.
Posted by: D4P | October 29, 2008 at 02:24 PM
77. 60 - Any idea how Tampa would react to the outcome?
Posted by: Bob Hendley | October 29, 2008 at 02:25 PM
78. 65 Molly, I know what you mean. Even though I wasn't at the game, I seemed to define a Karma. I since see that game as the opposite of the 4+1 game. Yin/Yang
Posted by: Gen3Blue | October 29, 2008 at 02:25 PM
79. 75
According to the Tigers Thoughts projections, both Beimel and Blake are very, very close to being Type A free agents.
Last year the true Elias list came out October 31, three days after the WS ended.
Posted by: Eric Stephen | October 29, 2008 at 02:26 PM
80. The Dodgers aren't trading Martin. I can't believe the world needs to be told this.
Posted by: Jon Weisman | October 29, 2008 at 02:28 PM
81. 65 The double tagout against the Mets was a very bad omen for the series. You could feel that might come back to haunt them right away.
But the Furcal error this year didn't seem so bad right away to me. Lowe had been pitching out of trouble and had not really given up any fly balls the entire game. Those 2 homeruns were a surprise considering how well he was pitching.
Posted by: Gilberto Reyes | October 29, 2008 at 02:28 PM
82. 80 I agree with you, but if we're right, then what's the motivation for dragging him through the mud with well-placed front office leaks? Are they hoping that will lower his asking price on a multi-year deal?
Posted by: Eric Enders | October 29, 2008 at 02:30 PM
83. 72 80 Apparently "Brad in Detroit" needs to be told this.
Posted by: Gilberto Reyes | October 29, 2008 at 02:32 PM
84. 74
The Cubs signed LaTroy Hawkins in 2004, and the Twins received picks 25 & 39.
The Mariners signed Jeff Nelson in 2001, and the Yankees received picks 23 & 42.
In 2000, the A's signed Mike Magnante (Angels got #20) and the Rangers signed Darren Oliver (Cards got #24).
In 1998, the Astros signed Doug Henry, and the Giants received #19.
Posted by: Eric Stephen | October 29, 2008 at 02:33 PM
85. If Baltimore offered Matt Wieters for Martin, I'd take it without hesitation.
Posted by: silverwidow | October 29, 2008 at 02:33 PM
86. Over/Unders for tonight's game.
7 pitchers used.
6 pinch-hitters/defensive replacements.
Game will end tonight in 2 hours.
Posted by: bhsportsguy | October 29, 2008 at 02:35 PM
87. 82 Arbitration is a nasty business. Young players often take it personal and some don't forget. Rememember how the front office celebrated their victory over Gagne with a rub it in your face article on dodgers.com? It would be nice if they kept it all internal.
Posted by: Gilberto Reyes | October 29, 2008 at 02:36 PM
88. 85 Baltimore paid a lot of money for Wieters, I doubt he goes anywhere for a while.
Posted by: bhsportsguy | October 29, 2008 at 02:36 PM
89. Sorry about your Spurs, LoneStar.
Posted by: MC Safety | October 29, 2008 at 02:37 PM
90. 87 I always think players should know that when it comes to contracts, its business and both sides will use whatever they can to extract the best deal. If you take that stuff personally, that is your problem.
Posted by: bhsportsguy | October 29, 2008 at 02:39 PM
91. 90 I agree, but the headline for that article was something like "Dodgers score huge victory over Gagne". Probably could have done without that.
Posted by: regfairfield | October 29, 2008 at 02:41 PM
92. 90 Many players today are spoiled and feel unappreciated by ownership despite their incredible salaries.
Posted by: Gilberto Reyes | October 29, 2008 at 02:43 PM
93. 82 - Keep in mind we don't know who's doing the leaking, but it might be as simple as simply wanting Martin to sleep more next season.
Posted by: Jon Weisman | October 29, 2008 at 02:45 PM
94. If Gagne wasn't hurt by what was said during the hearing (when he was told that he wasn't nearly as good as he thought he was), I can't imagine a story on a website would bother him more.
The salary arbitration process actually isn't all that contentious, according to people involved in it.
Posted by: Bob Timmermann | October 29, 2008 at 02:46 PM
95. 91 The article also praised Kim Ng for her outstanding role in the "victory over Gagne". Why not just thank her in private or give her a raise?
Posted by: Gilberto Reyes | October 29, 2008 at 02:46 PM
96. 91 - You think Kim Ng wrote that headline?
Posted by: Jon Weisman | October 29, 2008 at 02:46 PM
97. 96 Of course not, but I don't blame Gagne for being upset about it.
Posted by: regfairfield | October 29, 2008 at 02:48 PM
98. 94 I think the celebration in the form of a press release on your team website sends the wrong message to the players.
Posted by: Gilberto Reyes | October 29, 2008 at 02:49 PM
99. 84
That is bad business, simply bad business.
75
The guy in Detroit thinks he cracked the code. We will find out soon enough.
While Blake being a B is bad for the Dodgers it is great for him. Besides if he was an A would anyone sign him? He's to old be signed by any of the protected slot teams and not good enough to warrant losing a 15-30 draft pick.
Posted by: ToyCannon | October 29, 2008 at 02:53 PM
100. 96 - I agree with Bob in 94. I'm confident that Dodgers.com's coverage of the hearing result was a blip on Gagne's radar, compared to the result of the hearing itself.
Posted by: Jon Weisman | October 29, 2008 at 02:53 PM