Will Andre Ethier's struggles against left-handers finally give the Dodgers pause?
Here’s a question the Dodgers would prefer to avoid as long as possible:
Should Andre Ethier be platooned in right field?
Quick answer: Of course not. He’s a key middle-of-the-order bat, in the prime of his career and if he doesn’t hit, the Dodgers aren’t going to win anyway.
More deliberate answer: They certainly don’t want to, but if he doesn’t improve his hitting against left-handers, they have to consider it.
For the first two months of last season, Ethier crushed whatever pitcher was on the mound, so it’s not like he can’t do it. He was Triple Crown material before fracturing his right pinky.
When he came back, however, he was not the same. And his old problem against left-handers not only returned, it was worse than ever.
Throughout his career, the left-handed hitting Ethier has struggled against lefties:
Career AB AVG HR RBI OBP SLG
vs. RHP 1833 .307 84 298 .381 .583
vs. LHP 648 .247 14 86 .311 .370
Last season, however, saw a disturbing dip at a time in his career you would otherwise hope he was starting to master his shortcoming:
2010 AB AVG HR RBI OBP SLG
vs. RHP 358 .318 20 63 .396 .564
vs. LHP 159 .233 3 19 .292 .333
The Dodgers have little choice but to write off Ethier’s increased struggles against lefties last season, blame it on his finger and move forward expecting significantly better results.
But with James Loney also having more troubles last season with lefties than normal (.222, .262, .313), the Dodgers can’t afford to go indefinitely just hoping Ethier simply turns it around.
There are a lot of left-handers in the National League, particularly in the West. Last year the Dodgers had 2,496 plate appearances against right-handers, and 1,958 against left-handers.
Options, of course, are extremely limited. If the Dodgers ever did get to a point where they figured they had to sit Ethier against lefties, there is really nowhere in the dugout to turn.
They already have a left-handed bat in left field with Jay Gibbons, and only recently solved -- at least potentially -- the right-handed half of that dilemma with the signing of Marcus Thames.
The next and only other outfielder currently in reserve is Tony Gwynn Jr., who also bats left-handed. After that, they have to go back to thinking about Casey Blake or Jamey Carroll in the outfield, but you don’t want either one of those infield arms in right field.
Ethier’s slugging percentage has actually gone down every season against left-handers since he was first called up in 2006 (.468, .396, .368, .345, .331), so it’s not like this is a new problem.
Unless right-handed outfielder Jerry Sands is poised to make that impressive leap from double A, it’s a problem Ethier is going to have to conquer.
-- Steve Dilbeck
Photo: Andre Ethier. Credit: Luis Sinco / Los Angeles Times
Scott, and several others: There seems to be this unfounded feeling that Ned Colletti has traded the minor leagues bare for chump change, and it's really isn't true. No one he's traded has become a star for any other team. Carlos Santana may prove that guy for Cleveland, and Ned might want to have that one back. But Casey Blake did help take the Dodgers to the NLCS in consecutive seasons and most GMs will trade a prospect when they have a shot at the title; and Santana was in single-A at the time. James McDonald was ``fine'' for the Pirates, and I wish him all the best, but it's not like he never had a chance in Los Angeles.
Posted by: Steve Dilbeck | 01/27/2011 at 02:27 PM
A simple wish: an occasional trip to the off-season Dodgers page WITHOUT a
picture of one or the other, or, Yikes!!!, some days, both of the McCourts.
Do images of the relentlessly self-absorbed sell papers in LA?
The failure of the player development system in the last five years is the often unacknowledged subtext for almost anything written about the Ds these days. I've been cryin' in the desert for years that the present honchos are not all that gifted at what they do, despite the local canonization of Logan White, in particular.
Posted by: dud dew | 01/27/2011 at 02:49 PM
Jerry Sands, it seems, is becoming more and more needed. Either & Loney's struggles against left handers may be one big reason the offense is struggling over all. I see Marcus Thames filling in for Ethier until Sands is ready if this trend continues.
Hopefully Ethier's pinkie is heeled and he returns to the form he had before he hurt it. I hope Loney follows Pentland's advice to try to pull the ball more often against rightys and leftys.
Posted by: OldBrooklynFan | 01/27/2011 at 02:50 PM
Yes, it would be great if Ethier (and Loney) hit left-handers better, but they certainly aren't the only left-handed batters who have a, shall we say, tough time hitting lefties. Ryan Howard, Justin Morneau and yes, Adrian Gonzalez, are just a few star who hit right-handers much better than lefties. I don't have their numbers, but I think Ichiro Suzuki and Chase Utley might be the only two left-handed batters who hit left-handers and right-handers equally well.
Posted by: bob cuomo | 01/27/2011 at 02:55 PM
Hey, Ethier will have a real hitting coach this year, right? Should solve some of the problems. The hitting coach last year couldn't solve his and a whole bunch of other players problems. Thus, he's been Peter Principled.
Related to Steve's additional post, I agree McDonald indeed had a chance and never showed merit. If he does it elsewhere, that's in the 20/20 hindsight category.
Posted by: alanw19 | 01/27/2011 at 03:02 PM
Steve - make no mistake about it, in 2008 they rode the steroid Manny train (who was handed to Ned on a silver platter) to the playoffs, not Blake. It was a bad trade then - your best organizational hitter for a two month rental. Even then what'd we finish - 2 games over .500? No Manny, no playoffs. No Blake, who knows. You can't count Blake in 2009 because he resigned as a free agent.
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Also unexplainable is trading McDonald and Lambo for Dotel when it was apparent to everyone with two brain cells to rub together that not only was the team out of it, McDonald STILL had more upside than Dotel was worth, let alone include Lambo who they'd been touting for a couple years as the next slugging OFer (true or not.) Then Ned flips Dotel after a month to a division rival for some no name so all he really got was 18 innings for two top 30 [inside the Dodgers organization] prospects. As an aside, I don't think anyone thrived under Torre, let alone a young pitcher like McDonald who got tossed around from starter to reliever to starter to reliever.
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How about Abreu for 2 months of Garland, then leaving Garland off the playoff roster. Seems to me we could use a 2Bman about now (and last year too.)
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Don't make me get physical! (and don't make me go back through all of Ned's bad deals because I don't have that much time!!)
Posted by: Labeldude | 01/27/2011 at 03:05 PM
Andre needs to stay healthy, by avoiding these nagging injuries ( foot/09 - pinkey/10. ) By doing this he can keep good rythym, and will become better focused on the task at hand ( hitting all pitching.) It's easier to progress without distractions along the way. This guy cares, he wants to excel, he is driven and a healthy year, should bring much success!
Posted by: 16issolid | 01/27/2011 at 03:09 PM
His first year with the Dodgers his avg. was actually higher v. lefties but i think what you had after that was the cat out of bag scenario. The starters all took him more seriously and most times his last AB is going to be against their best lefty. Last year the injury was a huge factor combined with his pressing because nobody else was hittin behind him. Saw a lot of swings at pitches out of the zone, a rarity his first few years. If he can suck it up and take the walk in those situations he will eventually get better pitches and his numbers will improve. Easier said than done.
Posted by: N.P.Krohn | 01/27/2011 at 03:54 PM
Sorry it took so long to respond topic dudgers latter day Northrup clone in RF... was looking for any signs/hope beyond; alas, found but hyperbole.
He remains a journeyman - slow on the bases & lackluster on defense same (his offensive & defensive speed is the equivalent of Juan Pierre's arm) and when he isn't striking out with a flailing bat in hand or resting 'can't pull the trigger' position upon his shoulder, he's otherwise leaving runners stranded on base like they were the unrequited prayers of Gilligan & Co. the island.
Every now and then - like one year out an half a decade tenured career now -
his bat manages to find a pitch & the meeting results a late inning avoidance 'nother loss.
Mostly though, be a matter dreams meeting quash: a career that averages less than 20 hrs & south of 77 rbis per year does not suggest this 30 year old come 2012 will become magically delicious & suddenly morph into Yastrzemski or Robinson, last of the Triple Crown Winners 1966 & 1967 respectively.
Fact is, while he is imagined by a Kermit fandumb as the Rainbow Connection answer to yesteryear's Mondesi & Shawn Green, he's moreso Fairly & Kosco - which will have to suffice talent-wise, appears.
Mediocre, and nothing more. Expect more & be disappointed; expect less, and ye shall receive.
Go dudgers.
Posted by: 16blows | 01/27/2011 at 05:27 PM
The Roach Dotel:
Getting in was easy...
Getting out, too, as a matter of fact.
Unlike the Bates Dotel.
Posted by: Zen | 01/27/2011 at 05:32 PM
The simple answer is against left handed pitchers your line up is
(LF) Thames, (CF) Gwynn, (RF) Kemp, (3B) Uribe, (SS)Furcal, (2B) Carroll, (1B) Blake, (C) Barajas or whomever. Basically all right handed
However, the deeper problem is that these are not all the Dodgers best players and for Loney and Ethier to be out of the line up almost 40% of the time does not justify their expense or the Dodger effort. The Dodgers are failing in several areas:
1. Acquiring talent with plus skills and few or no weaknesses
2. Scouting, drafting and supporting similar talent through the minors with plus skills and few or no weaknesses
3. Coaching and training such talent at the major league level
4. Maintaining such talent by keeping them happy or not trading them away
Posted by: Kirk Davenport | 01/27/2011 at 05:41 PM
Jeff Kent once said, "anyone can hit a ball thrown in the strike zone." That said, Ethier can hit a pitch thrown in the strike zone as well as the best of them. Maybe he's having a tougher time picking up pitches by lefty's. Perhaps he needs a different approach to lefty's. It could be as simple as moving back in the box six inches. There's also a different mind-set for where you bat in the line up.
Maybe against starting lefty's he should bat higher in the line up.
Posted by: monster truck | 01/27/2011 at 06:55 PM
16blows - "a career that averages less than 20 hrs & south of 77 rbis per year"
You didn't weight your "averages" for games played. Over the last three years, it's 25/88 and that doesn't account for the fact that he missed over 40 games over that span. Pro-rated over a full season, that's averaging 28/98 for a season.
Posted by: David Young TBLA | 01/27/2011 at 07:01 PM
Steve - somehow Rule 5 draftee Carlos Monasterios received far more "chances" than James McDonald ever did. I have no problem trading prospects in the right deal, but you need to get the right return. You hold Carlos Santana one more year (look what he did in the Indians org; he continued what he was doing for the Dodgers), he can be a major piece for a Cliff Lee-type deal.
Posted by: David Young TBLA | 01/27/2011 at 07:06 PM
"But Casey Blake did help take the Dodgers to the NLCS in consecutive seasons and most GMs will trade a prospect when they have a shot at the title"
The 2009 NLCS appearance is a non-sequitur; Blake signed as a free agent, largely because the Twins (obviously closer to his home) would not offer a 3rd year. The fact is, Carlos Santana was traded for a two-month rental. And while Blake did put up good power numbers and played a solid 3rd base, the Dodgers reaching the Championship Series is due FAR more to Manny's otherworldly performance.
Posted by: silverwidow | 01/27/2011 at 07:29 PM
Hey Labeldude,
You are soooooo right on!
Posted by: LA42 | 01/27/2011 at 08:02 PM
I've had a theory about this for quite some time and I'm surprised that no one else more educated than myself has come up with it: two-handed follow through versus a one-handed follow through.
Read on.
2006-AVG: .308. HR: 11. He hit .298 vs. RHP, 10 HR and .351 vs. LHP, 1 HR.
2007-AVG: .284. HR: 13. He hit .286 vs. RHP, 12 HR and .279 vs. LHP, 1 HR.
2008-AVG: .305. HR: 20. He hit .326 vs. RHP, 17 HR and .241 vs. LHP, 3 HR.
2009-AVG: .272. HR: 31. He hit .302 vs. RHP, 25 HR and .194 vs. LHP, 6 HR.
2010-AVG: .292. HR: 23. He hit .318 vs. RHP, 20 HR and .233 vs. LHP, 3HR.
There you have the basic stats that most people care about.
In 2008, Joe Torre came to town; Don Mattingly was supposed to come along as bench coach but did not due to family issues.
In the first half of '08, Ethier had 307 at-bats and hit .283 with 11 HR vs. all pitching.
In the second half, Don Mattingly took over as Dodgers hitting coach.
In the second half of the '08 season, Ethier had 218 at-bats and hit .335 with 9 HR.
Ethier has credited Don Mattingly with helping make his swing more powerful. But apparently at the cost of LHP production. He hit over .300 vs. LHP '06-'08.
Ok, so here's what Mattingly did to Ethier -- he had him finish with a one-handed follow through, thus producing a more powerful swing. Before, Andre was a two-handed finisher and had more bat control.
Simple solution? Andre follows through with both hands on lefty pitching, sacrificing a little power for way more bat control. He can continue his one-handed approach to righties.
Fair enough?
Posted by: Clint aka thedodgerman | 01/27/2011 at 08:04 PM
He'a a platoon player on any contending team in the league EXCEPT - the Dodgers. Know why? We are not a contending team. See ya in fourth.
Posted by: Hollywood Dodger Mark | 01/27/2011 at 11:20 PM
I will agree that Pentland has shown to be a quality hitting coach.
His first year with the Mariners the team was 14th in offense in the AL - dead last!
The team did improve 20 points in OBP, 15 points in BA , 97 RBI's better , 221 hits & 26 points in slg % within his first 2 years and rose to # 2 in BA.
They did regress slightly in his final year but truth be told that was a pretty tumultuous year for the Mariners and the talent wasn't exactly there either.
All in all I am interested to see what he does with the Dodger hitters and hoping that Ethier & Loney can settle in and be the offensive players we all know they can be and have seen flashes of.
Posted by: Jason | 01/28/2011 at 07:40 AM
David Young... If the Dodgers wanted to keep Monasterios and not return him to the Phillies, they had to keep him in the major league team. Having said that, McDonald did get opportunities. He pitched well out of the bullpen, but struggled as a starter. I think the Dodgers made a mistake by trading him, but in my opinion he was given opportunities and the Dodgers gave up on him too quickly. He's going to be a good #3 guy. The guy I truly wish was still with the Dodgers is Lambo.
Posted by: joe | 01/28/2011 at 07:44 AM
Clint makes a very valid and insightful point about Dre needing to have a two handed follow through v. lefties and a one handed v. righties.
His first couple years Dre could hit lefties no problem, if Mattingly had him change his follow through and that's when his avg. v. lefties started to tank he should then go back to two handed follow through v. lefties for more bat control and better production.
No matter what Dre is no journey-man platoon player, that's ridiculous.
Posted by: aaron d. | 01/28/2011 at 08:55 AM
Look, folks, I will agree that Neddy does some wacky things. And he clearly feels no need to hang onto a mid-season acquisition to see if the investment will pan out beyond anything more than a short-term, bottom-line ROI. However, an awful lot of people are seeing more in some of these Dodger prospects than is really there. Abreu couldn't even crack the Diamondbacks' lineup, and they really liked him when they traded for him. What does that tell you? That's a bad team. He's not in their plans anymore. McDonald was given chance after chance after chance. But for all the hype, I can't remember a single impressive outing. Good luck in Pittsburgh, but I'll believe it when I see it.
Posted by: BlueinAZ | 01/28/2011 at 08:57 AM
@Dave Young TBLA
"You didn't weight your "averages" for games played."
- nor did I deduct points for the cardinal sin of a professional athlete: failure to 'be available' whether due injury, an inability to hit lefthanders, whatever.
A resume is not merely the choice slice, rather, compilation. If we judge him via criterion 'what have you done for me lately', well... his arrow seems to be pointing down even more so.
"Over the last three years, it's 25/88 and that doesn't account for the fact that he missed over 40 games over that span."
- life is so unfair, huh. He was hyped as the Triple Crown Winner in waiting 2010; still waiting.
He had a fast start - as Reggie Jackson in 1969 who was going to beat Maris 61 hr record because Reggie already had 37 by that years all star break (or was it 40 even?) Then, Reg hit 7 more all season and finished with 47. No cigar.
Remember the old adage 'if your aunt had ***** she would be your Uncle?' The dudgers RF'r will need to grow an massive pair to become either Uncle Yaz or merit a Reggie Bar.
"Pro-rated over a full season, that's averaging 28/98 for a season."
- today's password is: 'if only'. Where lies your category 'wishful thinking'? In the hearts & minds of players, fans and apologists every, carefully crafted sad tales of woe for to tell. Sorry, no charity cases accepted.
Does the phrase 'I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today' resonate?
j-o-u-r-n-e-y-m-a-n
Posted by: 16blows | 01/28/2011 at 09:34 AM
I want to address this part of the blog: "The next and only other outfielder currently in reserve is Tony Gwynn Jr., who also bats left-handed. After that, they have to go back to thinking about Casey Blake or Jamey Carroll in the outfield, but you don’t want either one of those infield arms in right field."
Just put Kemp in right field if he's not already our everyday rightfielder (with Ethier in left and Gwynn in center, which is what I'd like to see against Righties). When facing lefties, put Blake or Carroll in left. So I echo Kirk. I know Gwynn's a lefty, but we don't have him for offense anyway, and his defense will probably more than make up for that.
Posted by: Jay from Sactown | 01/28/2011 at 10:24 AM
Yet another problem on the left?
Posted by: Obama | 01/28/2011 at 10:36 AM
Hey Steve....
Isn't the Silver Slugger award given to the "Best Offensive Player" at his position?? Didn't Ethier win that award in 2009 IN SPITE of his struggles against left handers? I wouldn't feel too bad that the Dodgers don't have anyone on their current roster that can be an improvement on that. Let me say that again..... BEST OFFENSIVE PLAYER AT HIS POSITION..... Just one year before he broke his finger. Wasn't he tearing up pitching from both sides of the plate before he broke that finger? Then even after the broken finger he loses only 14 points over his lifetime average against lefties and you want to drop him into a platoon??? It's pretty hard to find a platoon player who who is an improvement over BEST OFFENSIVE PLAYER AT HIS POSITION.
Posted by: Tom Thompson | 01/28/2011 at 10:42 AM
Tom Thompson: I did not say he should be dropped into a platoon now, quite the contrary. I simply suggested it is a question the Dodgers will have to address if he continues his struggles against lefties. And it's not the 13 points he dropped off his average, but the continuing decline in slugging percentage that has to be a concern.
Posted by: Steve Dilbeck | 01/28/2011 at 10:57 AM
Mattingly had absolutely zero skills as a hitting coach---it was clearly evident over his tenure in that position. Players have slumps, but when the whole team struggles for about 65-70% of the entire season, there are much larger issues than addressing batting splits. Jeff Pentland will undoubtedly do a better job than Donnie, but the question is, "how much better?"
Posted by: JeffShaw | 01/28/2011 at 01:11 PM
To add a point about trading away prospects - its one thing to trade away prospects for difference makers. Hence though he never really got a true shot at third, LaRoche in the Manny trade was totally acceptible - Manny made a difference in 2008.
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But the question is, how many difference makers has Ned EVER traded for with our prospects? Blake - no. Lilly - no. Garland - no. Dotel? Theriot? Lugo? Lurch? There's a whole laundry list of non-impact acquisitions that if you don't make the unnecessary move you could've signed the player you traded for as a FA the next offseason AND still had the prospect.
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The real problem isn't trading prospects, its what Ned trades them for. If he'd ever put together a package of prospects and come back with an impact player or two, I'd probably drop dead of shock.
Posted by: Labeldude | 01/28/2011 at 03:00 PM
Why so glum 16? Granted Ethier finished badly last year; for many reasons, some of them completletly his own doing. I'll go further and add that he has had terrible streches that sometimes last weeks every season but his rookie year. Yet, across the board, don't see many LHB OF's putting up the numbers he has during that period. Ichiro defintely. After that it becomes a debate. CarGo in Col. is clearly the cream of the crop but after that? Definitely not his minor league mate Swish who despite the slight edge in power and walks will never hit consistantly for Avg. Abreu and Matsui are over the hill and there are a few who might do better in the coming 4yrs like Heyward and Brown but right now there are only 3 LHB OF's that have better numbers even last year, with Crawford and Ichiro filling completely different roles making any comparisons devoid of purpose. 4th best out of 30 teams? Hardly a journeyman. If he plays 155 gms i'd be willing to wage a Reggie bar that he hits .290 with @25hr and 95RBI. And by the by Pete Reiser couldv'e been Willie Mays without the hat propping theatrics if he hadn't of broken his skull.
Posted by: N.P.Krohn | 01/28/2011 at 04:03 PM
To be a dudgers fan is to be glum; to be a fan of the RF'r suggests Helen Keller...
Posted by: 16blows | 01/30/2011 at 10:22 AM
"16blows" is just a troll who has an odd, personal agenda against Ethier. I can tell by his writing. The guy used to write about Andre on the Dodgers website, but I think he was banned because I haven't heard from him in a while. Good job 16, you got people to respond - the true desire of a troll. Don't worry Dodger fans, he doesn't think objectively about the game or Ethier's stats. Apparently Ethier's been a journeyman for the past couple years now. Hard to believe since two years ago he was only 26 and has been only with the Dodgers since he came to the majors. 16, I'm sorry you have nothing better to do than write really long, stupid comments on a legitimate article. That being said, while Ethier does struggle against lefties, he certainly has the potential to hit them average or better. I don't believe he will get platooned, and I think at 29 he'll hit well enough against both lefties and righties. I'm not TOO worried about him, considering his career average and power. I'm more concerned about Kemp actually. The Dodgers need his average and OBP much more than a couple dozen BA points for Ethier. But yeah, 0.233 against lefties is pretty bad. Go Dodgers.
Posted by: qmac75 | 01/31/2011 at 10:15 PM
Ode to journeyman fandom
They see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil; enlist Jiminy Cricket 'Wish Upon A Star' & oft cross fingers furtive tandem, click heels thrice; give voice their inner Hamlet, consider 'to be or not to be' - persists former as the folly Triple Corona, die a thousand deaths as each rbi unrequited the bases, basis. Keep dreaming ye, while all hope abandons... thar he blows, 16.
Posted by: 16blows | 02/01/2011 at 08:37 AM