And you thought there was no way to find more slop in that Dodgers 7-5 loss: Joe Torre says umpires blundered in George Sherrill warm-ups

Wondering how that Bizarro world Dodgers-Giants game Tuesday could be mucked up any further?

Have no fear, there’s always a way ...

After the Dodgers 7-5 loss to the Giants, manager Joe Torre claimed the umpires had messed up by not allowing reliever George Sherrill an unlimited number of warm-up throws.

Rules are rules, unless you don’t know them. Or how to interpret them.

Sherrill was summoned into the game after acting manager Don Mattingly -- Torre had been ejected -- paid a visit to the mound in the top of the ninth with the bases loaded, one out and Andres Torres due up.

"I really just went out to let the infield know we were going to play back," Mattingly said. "Torres could run. And the corners were basically pretty much going home.

"After I did that, I turned to walk away and James [Loney] said something, and I kind of turned around. I didn’t realize I was even off the dirt, but obviously I was.’’

That would be a no-no. Leave the dirt around the mound and return to it, and that constitutes two visits. A second visit to one pitcher in an inning, and that pitcher must be removed from the game.

Which meant closer Jonathan Broxton’s night was over.

"We’re not playing good, and it cost us a chance to win the game," Mattingly said. "Obviously when you have Brox in the game -- the bases loaded, but you feel you can get out of that.’’

Instead, Sherrill was quickly summoned from the bullpen. Mattingly said he asked crew chief Tim McClelland if, as in replacing an injured pitcher, his reliever would get as much time as needed to get loose.

"I asked McCelland, 'Can he warm up?' And he said, 'Yeah, I won’t do that to him. I won’t take a chance on a guy getting hurt,' " Mattingly said. At that point, Mattingly said, he was talking to pitching coach Rick Honeycutt "and not really realizing how many throws" Sherrill was getting.

Sherrill also thought he would be allowed as many warm-ups as he needed. Until he learned otherwise from home-plate umpire Adrian Johnson.

"After seven he said, 'One more,' and stood behind the plate and called for Torres," Sherrill said. "And that was that."

Until Torres drove a Sherrill offering into the left-center gap that turned a 5-4 Dodgers’ lead into a 6-5 Giants advantage and ultimately a 7-5 victory.

"The biggest issue to me, and I just found this out, the umpire behind the plate only allowed Sherrill eight warm-ups," Torre said, "and he was supposed to get as many as he needed."

Sherrill said, normally, bullpen included, he would normally throw about 25 pitches to get ready. Sherrill said he had thrown two in the bullpen.

Surprise, the rule is only slightly less confusing. Apparently, the number of warm-up throws in that situation can be a judgment call by the umpire.

Also, MLB Rule 8.06 makes it sound like what should have happened Tuesday was Mattingly should have been ejected, Broxton should have pitched to Torres and then been replaced:

"In a case where a manager has made his first trip to the mound and then returns the second time to the mound in the same inning with the same pitcher in the game and the same batter at bat, after being warned by the umpire that he cannot return to the mound, the manager shall be removed from the game and the pitcher required to pitch to the batter until he is retired or gets on base. After the batter is retired, or becomes a base runner, then this pitcher must be removed from the game. The manager should be notified that his pitcher will be removed from the game after he pitches to one hitter, so he can have a substitute pitcher warmed up.

"The substitute pitcher will be allowed eight preparatory pitches or more if in the umpire’s judgment circumstances justify."

Going by that, eight were technically OK, though the umpires should have been clear in their initial instructions. And Mattingly said when he turned to return to the mound, he heard Johnson yelling, "No, no, no. You can’t go back." So he had been warned.

Of course, the umpires acted on none of this initially. If Giants manager Bruce Bochy had not protested, the umpires were going to let Mattingly’s goof just slip by.

The muck was everywhere.

-- Steve Dilbeck

Comments

[west coast ram]

If you watched the game it was obvious that the home plate umpire was pretty shaky to begin with. There was plenty of strikes thrown on both sides that were called balls, no warning should have been issued after Kemp's HBP but should have been issued after Martin was buzzed. The already documented flub on the second visit rule.

All that said, it's time for the Dodgers to begome sellers before the deadline. Both Padilla and Karoda could bring prospects and the dodgers should try to get out from under the Blake contract. I think that Manny is playing the Dodgers so he can't get traded before the deadline.

[tim]

couldnt happen to a nicer bunch! really standing and cheering rowand getting hit? bye bye dodgers! you are getting smaller in my rear view mirror... bye the way, pitch to posey with an open base?? think bonds clowns...then you will get the picture.

[fff]

Regardless... the dodgers are horrible right now, and they just dont have the consistency they had last year. We have a solid rotation, but it always seems like the bullpen gives it up. With Belisario out, and Broxtons fastball flattening out, I just don't see us making a good run at it. Regardless of rules, Sherrill would have given up something whether he warmed up or not. Added to the fact that the McCourts are putting a strangle hold on for the trading deadline, the dodgers are going to have lots of time to rest and get ready for next year.

[gregm]

HOW MANY MORE GAMES DOES SHERILL HAVE TO LOSE BEFORE YOU KICK HIM TO THE CURB,our double AA talent could do better then this chump!!! Get some pitchers before trade deadline, this is embarrassing!! Padres in 1st ?? COME ON ALREADY !!

[These Dodgers Suck!]

God Joe! by that time the Umps were probably treating it like Spring Training Game
(the same way Mattingly had)

[kjp]

Bochy manages the Giants these days, Steve. Not the Padres.

The Mattingly situation was farcical, but in the end it meant only that Sherrill gave up the runs, rather than Broxton. Broxton was not going to get out of that jam . . . which he created. He's done. In the course of his disgraceful meltdown against the Yankees, he lost 8-10 mph off his fastball. That velocity has not returned. Dave Campbell of ESPN has noted this, even if the Dodgers announcers and the coaching staff haven't.

Billingsley knows what he needs to do tonight. He can atone for his fecklessness two years ago in Philadelphia, or he can forever lose the respect of every player on that team.

The canard that Koufax never hit people when required is just that—a canard. Check out Drysdale's autobiography.

It is well that Padilla will be facing the Giants again, sometime this year. I hope that on that day he is matched up with Lincecum.

[Art Kang]

"If Padres manager Bruce Bochy had not protested, the umpires were going to let Mattingly’s goof just slip by."

really? I think Bochy manages the Giants now.

[rocco]

wht not put broxton in the outfield for 1 pitch, let one of the outfielders throw 1 pitch, (a ball for sure) and then bring broxton back to mound....it's legal.

[Toddros]

Uh...I think in the last sentence you meant to say "If Giants manager Bruce Bochy had not protested..." - The game was against the Giants.

Although four years ago, Bochy did the very same thing to Dodgers manager Grady Little when he was managing the Padres.

[Rich]

"If Padres manager Bruce Bochy had not protested, the umpires were going to let Mattingly’s goof just slip by."

Er, Bochy is the Giants manager :-)

[caitlyn]

error: giants manager bochy, not padres

[Matt]

Last sentence says Padres manager. Bochy manages for the Giants now.

[Jason]

"If Padres manager Bruce Bochy had not protested, the umpires were going to let Mattingly’s goof just slip by..."

You mean GIANTS manager Bruce Bochy?

[Josh]

You left out the first part of the part of Rule 8.06 that you cited: "If the coach goes to the mound and removes a pitcher and then the manager goes to the mound to talk with the new pitcher, that will constitute one trip to that new pitcher that inning." The part of the manager getting ejected is a followup to that. It's to prevent a manager from getting around the "Pitcher must face one batter before being removed" rule by visiting the mound twice after inserting him.

[Humbi]

It doesnt matter if Sherrill had 50 warm up pitches, he would of allowed the runner to score no matter what. Why is this guy still on the roster? Put him out of his misery already. And does anybody notice that Broxton rarely has a 1-2-3 inning? His ERA is already over 3.00 and for a closer that isnt too good. Its always a coin flip when he comes in and especially in pressure situation, this guy just chokes. I seriously wanted to throw something through my tv last night, I cant take this any longer.

[Stan]

To me, Sherrill could of had 100 warmup pitches and the result would of been the same. How many warmups does it take to not groove one over the plate. I would think that the Dodgers can now recind Sherrills release because his problem is the number of warmup pitches he does in the bullpen. Joe and Rick can experiment by adding another 30 to hopefully get him on track. My only question is, what are they going to do about that matter between his ears?

[SFGiants1962]

HaHa. Suckers. Beat LA!!!!

[Bret Nelson]

Steve, you should change the next to last sentence. Giants manager Bochy protested.

[Pilar]

Strange game indeed last night. I was wondering if the Dodgers could have played the 2-mound visit a little differently. Maybe someone knows the rules on this one: When Mattingly made his second visit, were the Dodgers actually forced to take Broxton "out of the game"? Isn't the rule stated that the pitcher must be "replaced". If that is the case, could the Dodgers have performed a "double-switch"? Could they have had Broxton replace, say Xavier Paul in left field, bring in Sherrill for, let's say, one pitch (an intentional ball) then switch Broxton with Sherril and another Dodger on the bench could fill Broxton's spot in left? Sounds a bit weird but I was wondering if something like this was possible with all the crazy rules w don't always get to se played out in a game. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[tom]

Bruce Bochy may have played for the Padres but he manages the Giants. Even more slop! It is contagious!

[OldBrooklynFan]

This is something I think, the Dodgers would do on national T.V. Like breaking rules that they forgot existed and those who are unfamiliar with them love to criticize them for.

[Roc H]

yes, bochy manages the giants now. that's why the padres are in first. Please Mark Cuban, buy the dodgers!!

[Steve Dilbeck]

To all those who picked up on my slip in the second-to-last paragraph originally writing Padres instead of Giants for Bochy, you can take comfort in knowing it has been corrected. I also take comfort in knowing you read all the way to the end.

[johnny]

I was going to tonight's game because a friend wanted to take me out. But on second thought I'm not gonna be a lemming. Letting Broxton stay a Dodger makes me not believe in this team. They need to trade him for Saito.