Prop. 8 push-back in Culver City

Visitors to Kim Light/Lightbox Gallery in Culver City are now greeted by a pink danger sign taped to the front door. It says:

WARNING: This area may contain homosexuals, which are known by the State of California to be harmful to the sanctity of heterosexual marriage.

-- Christopher Knight

Photo: Kim Light/Lightbox

Comments

[Mike D'Virgilio]

The majority of the American people do not accept that homosexuality is morally equal to heterosexuality, and that marriage should be used to force that view upon them. Period. It is not a matter of bigotry, other than the bigotry of the left against those whose morality is religiously based. It is not a matter of civil rights, because homosexuals have the same rights as every other American. They are free to live their life in any way they choose. But they are not free and do not have the right by judicial fiat to change the definition of marriage. If their views are so wholesome and wonderful and pure and good, let them convince the American people. If the American people or the people of any state decided against their wishes, that's just too bad. Homosexuals are perfectly free to get married, just not free to force me to recognize it as such.

[Ted]

Look, the logic here, Mike D'Virgilio, is very simple: the California constitution guarantees equal protection under the law. Marriage is both a religious and a civil institution. No church will ever be forced to marry a gay couple--the Catholic church chooses whom it will marry all of the time--so your argument that you will be *forced* to recognize gay marriage doesn't hold water. But I think it's plainly clear from a constitutional perspective that civil rights must be equal--regardless of what one referendum says.

[Christopher Knight]

Mike D'Virgilio is executive director of The Culture Project, a new right-wing think tank outside Chicago founded in July with support from the likes of the Manhattan Institute and the New Criterion. (It should not be confused with the Culture Project, a 12-year-old theater group in New York City; in fact, I wonder whether the theater, which produces political dramas and has worked with Meryl Streep, Danny Glover, Robin Williams and many others, is aware that its good name has been usurped.) The contradictory foolishness of Mr. D'Virgilio's comment seems self-evident; "homosexuals have the same rights as every other American," he writes, in reference to an issue in which one of those "same rights" has just been removed by popular referendum.

[Gaby A]

Actually MIKE we are NOT free to get married seeing as how the entire state of California and a few other states voted in this election cycle voted to take away the rights of same-sex couples who already COULD get married.

Just so you know, we do not have the same rights as every other American. They were just taken from us a week ago. Now we have a nicely packaged civil union/domestic partnership that was made "especially" for us, because while we're all equal we're not quite equal enough to have the same special package. You get the straight package and we get the gay package. It more or less has the same things inside, it just sounds DIFFERENT, BUT trust me its THE SAME.

Please look up SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
if you must keep bringing up the bible
Please look up MATTHEW 7:12
and for good measure JOHN 13:34-35
These are all in the new testament. The one where Jesus made a big appearance. Jesus, who's main purpose was to forgive everyone everyone's since but before he got to doing that he had to set everyone straight because people were killing each other left and right and much hate was filling the world at the time because they were following the Old Testament word-for-word.

BUT IF YOU MUST STILL follow that old testament so religiously and keep quoting good old leviticus then, Please look up
(Lev 11: 9-12)
(Deut 22:11)
(Lev 20:27)
(Lev 21:14)
(Lev 20:18 ff)
(Lev. 20:10)
(Lev. 25:44–46)

So in short, if you wish to be such fervent supporters of the bible and YOUR religion, why don't you stop eating red meat(Leviticus said so), sleeping with your secretary(you'll be stoned to death), eating any seafood(because sea creatures are an abomination), or continue to fight for your RIGHT to keep slaves, or stop throwing around Jesus' name when you're angry? Because if we listen to that good ol' bible we can stone you to death and declare YOU an abomination on almost all counts.

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

[Wayne Wilson]

It is becoming increasingly obvious who are the intolerant ones in the Prop 8 controversy, and which sides displays the most hate. It is not hateful at all to preserve the definition of marriage as between a man and a woman. Californians have graciously permitted Same-sex couples to have a legal recognition of their relationships through civil unions. This was granted because most Californians are tolerant, live-and-let-live people. But when you change the definition of something, you change it for everyone. Marriage is, by definition, male-female. It has always been so. You may disagree that it should remain so, but to accuse others of hate for believing it should remain this way is foolish and mean-spirited in the extreme. Many of us voted yes on prop 8, not because of religion, but because we simply believe that marriage is male-female...by definition.

[Jake in LA]

Wayne: Since when does fighting for your rights = intolerance? I wager to bet if we were taking a vote on your marriage rights, you would be outraged too. Or taking away rights from any minority group for that matter. And I would hope that you would stand up and make your voice heard. That's what we are doing because we REFUSE to be treated like second class citizens. Protesting is not civil, it's not nice, and it can and probably will get ugly. So sit back on your couch and criticize while you enjoy your civil liberties.

Also, I'm not sure if you've opened a dictionary in a while, but, marriage has many meanings. It's funny how people want to just pull that ONE definition out and argue over semantics. Please note definition “d” if you will, and then tell me we all have the same rights. I've also included the verb marry for your review.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language:
Marriage
NOUN: 1a. The legal union of a man and woman as husband and wife. b. The state of being married; wedlock. c. A common-law marriage. d. A union between two persons having the customary but usually not the legal force of marriage: a same-sex marriage. 2. A wedding. 3. A close union: “the most successful marriage of beauty and blood in mainstream comics” (Lloyd Rose). 4. Games The combination of the king and queen of the same suit, as in pinochle.

Marry
1a. To join as spouses by exchanging vows. b. To take as a spouse. c. To give in marriage. 2. To perform a marriage ceremony for: The rabbi married the couple. 3. To obtain by marriage: marry money. 4. Nautical To join (two ropes) end to end by interweaving their strands. 5. To unite in a close, usually permanent way: “His material marries the domestic and the exotic” (Clifton Fadiman).

[Bram Ritchie]

How does the exec.-director of a national organization supporting Prop. 8 not identify himself as such when posting to this board? Instead it's up to Mr. Knight to let us all in on the fact that Mr. D'Virgilio is participating in this forum not as a citizen but as a vested interest. I wish my job was to troll comment boards and post to them as "the majority." What other lies of omission are there from D'Virgilio and The "Culture" Project?

[Cory D]

I could right pages; legal briefs and historical/biblical references; that counter any claim that taking away rights based on a majority vote, may it be handicap rights, etc, is constitutional. News flash: "All men are created equal". With the pioneering efforts of Benjamin Franklin, our forefathers fled religious persecution and established a nation, NOT "In GOD we trust" as our politicians/right wing from the mid-20th Century would have us believe through the re-write of historical documents, but "In SCIENCE we trust". Thus began what has become a blurred line between Church and State, a fact that has our founding fathers spinning in their graves (more than Bill OReilly spins facts on his show).

The fact of the matter is the state of California, Arizona and Florida allowed the people to make a decision that was influenced by millions of dollars from Churches and bigots to misinform and public with scare tactics and lies right out of the Karl Rove handbook of politics. We have tolerated Religion enough to allow stories and TALES written thousands of years ago in many different versions by many different men, but the reality is the bible is simply a collection of stories meant to control men and deviate natural history. Science has proven this fact, and it will continue in doing so.

As another poster stated, I find it alarmingly amusing that individuals chose to cherry pick certain Biblical passages to suit their bigotry, much as was once done to justify (wrongly) that slavery is fair game, when so much Biblical "law" is disregarded (such as wearing cloth with more than one fiber or shaving is punishable by stoning, how amusing no one wishes to live by that law, but determines that "marriage" is such a sacred institution). Interesting to note that the Catholic Church did not even recognize marriage until 400-500 years ago, and before such did not discriminate between gender in unions until it was decided that marriage must be "protected".

What is it that the religious community is so afraid of? Marriage has been treated as a joke by so many. Britney Spears was married numerous times, divorced, not to mention another "protect marriage" advocate Newt Gingrich, Mccain, Rudolph Guiliani, etc. who have cheated and divorced numerous times. Oh, but wait, how dare another human being who actually LOVES someone come in and redefine their bastardization of "marriage". Simply put, protecting "marriage" is simply the new Jim Crow law of the 21st Century. Keep us out of your bigotry and religion, and allow us the same rights you have, until then, STAY OUT OF OUR LIVES.

[mwf]

Yes, it is pretty obvious as to who the intolerant ones are: the religious groups that feel it is their duty to deny equality to people that do not agree with them.

That being said, could someone please produce one piece of legislation, one ballot initiative, one amendment to the Constitution brought forward by any gay organization to deny heterosexuals, religious groups, etc their right to practice their religion or deny these heterosexuals and these religious groups any other right they have enjoyed the past several hundred years?

So when it comes to hate, the religious organizations seem to have cornered the market.

[Michael Mehring]

The Kim Light Gallery/Lightbox rocks. Great art and even a better owner. Props to you from NYC

[amelia]

To all of the fundamentalist people living under a rock:

I come from a strong Christian family, who is VERY VERY connected in the church. My grandfather was the president of Young Life, the world's largest christian youth ministry organization...and yet, NONE OF MY FAMILY VOTED YES ON 8...THEY ARE ALL REAL CHRISTIANS WHO BELIEVE THAT ALL PEOPLE ARE CREATED EQUAL... YOU PEOPLE GIVE CHRISTIANS A BAD NAME.... THE CHRISTIANS I KNOW ALL VOTED NO ON 8 BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND AND ARE EDUCATED ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT IF ONE GROUP HAS A RIGHT, ALL GROUPS SHOULD HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS...STOP THE OPPRESSION OF THE GAY COMMUNITY...STOP HIDING BEHIND YOUR BIBLE TO USE THEM AS AN EXCUSE FOR YOUR BIGOTRY... I WILL REPOST WHAT GABY SAID, BECAUSE SHE SAID IT BEST:
Just so you know, we do not have the same rights as every other American. They were just taken from us a week ago. Now we have a nicely packaged civil union/domestic partnership that was made "especially" for us, because while we're all equal we're not quite equal enough to have the same special package. You get the straight package and we get the gay package. It more or less has the same things inside, it just sounds DIFFERENT, BUT trust me its THE SAME.

Please look up SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
if you must keep bringing up the bible
Please look up MATTHEW 7:12
and for good measure JOHN 13:34-35
These are all in the new testament. The one where Jesus made a big appearance. Jesus, who's main purpose was to forgive everyone everyone's since but before he got to doing that he had to set everyone straight because people were killing each other left and right and much hate was filling the world at the time because they were following the Old Testament word-for-word.

BUT IF YOU MUST STILL follow that old testament so religiously and keep quoting good old leviticus then, Please look up
(Lev 11: 9-12)
(Deut 22:11)
(Lev 20:27)
(Lev 21:14)
(Lev 20:18 ff)
(Lev. 20:10)
(Lev. 25:44–46)

So in short, if you wish to be such fervent supporters of the bible and YOUR religion, why don't you stop eating red meat(Leviticus said so), sleeping with your secretary(you'll be stoned to death), eating any seafood(because sea creatures are an abomination), or continue to fight for your RIGHT to keep slaves, or stop throwing around Jesus' name when you're angry? Because if we listen to that good ol' bible we can stone you to death and declare YOU an abomination on almost all counts.

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

[Jay]

I don't care whether D'Virgilio recognizes my marriage or not. I do care whether the state of California recognizes my marriage. Hopefully, the Supreme Court of California will quickly nullify Proposition 8. Meanwhile, the churches can continue to decide whether they recognize and perform same-sex marriages. Luckily, there are lots of churches that do. So these wing-nuts do not even speak for religion.

Thanks to the gallery for making a great statement.

[really good looking gay guy]

the christians are so weird. they go on and on as if gay marriage is not ever going to happen. it's on the way and from the courts because unlike the christian craziness, the courts are balanced and look out for everyone, including the awesome gays. gay is rad!

[IT]

I have attended three protests so far, including one outside of the Mormon temple in my community.

No one was harmed, nothing was damaged. No one threatened the Mormons with anything. As protests go, it was surprisingly positive.

We were flipped off by people with Jesus-fish on their car, and one guy shrieked "YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS< YOU PERVERT!"

So I am sorry that the poor Mormons feel offended that we are protesting their funding of the hate amendment, but you know what? We have free speech too.

At least until you try to ban that as well.

[Arora]

This is about equality, period. Mike D'Virgili represents a decreasing segment of our society who con-fuses biblical interpretation with constitutional fact.

[Mike D'Virgilio]

Well, well, I see that the real bigots came to the party since I left my comment. Not sure if any will find their way back here, but I may as well respond. As for The Culture Project, why would I have to identify in my comment that I am the founder of said organization? I have nothing to hide. The link on my name takes you right to our website. And since there is the organization in New York mentioned above, we plan to change our name in due course.

The rank hypocrisy amazes me. No, it really doesn't. Before the election same-sex marriage advocates and the various assortment of left wingers were willing to see how the vote went. When it didn't go their way, they pull a tantrum and run to the courts. If you all are so confident that the American people want to enshrine your vision of morality into the constitution why not abide by the results of fair and democratic elections? I'll tell you why. The left wing vision of reality is totalitarian and antithetical to true liberty. Whatever they say is true and right must be imposed on the populace regardless of their wishes.

You can bring up the canard of racism and equal rights all you want, but science objectively considered cannot prove that homosexuality is equal to the color or one's skin. Most Americans know this to be true as well. But that isn't even the point. I, as most of those who share my Christian faith do not care what anyone does sexually. Homosexuals have every right that heterosexuals do, including the right to marry, although the don't have the right to force society to redefine the age old definition of the institution. And state after state is willing to give them all the legal safeguard of marriage without the name. So what is really the issue?

My initial comment stands. You want to force Americans via unelected courts to accept your view of morality, period. This BS that homosexuals are somehow persecuted because Americans do want to change the definition of marriage is a joke. No wonder 70% of black Californians voted for Prop. 8, because they are insulted by the comparison to race.

And don't get me started on the ridiculous misinterpretation of the separation of church and state, something only mentioned in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to a Baptist church years after the Constitution was ratified. Since you choose to insult me as some uneducated rube, I will simply point out that you are ignorant, a slave to your political ideology and unable to see the truth. The Founders never intended religiously based values to be out of bounds in the legislation and running of American. They simply believed that a state church was inimical to religious liberty. But then again, you will not be confused by the facts.

There, I'm glad I got that out of my system.