Comments war: UC students and non-UC students discuss the student fee hike

It seems the recent decision by the University of California Board of Regents to increase student fees by 32% has caused not only a "students vs. regents" demonstration at UCLA's campus today, but also a "students vs. non-students" quarrel in our comments sections.

The fee hike that everyone is arguing about (justifiably so) will come in two steps by fall 2010. Basic UC education fees will rise then to about $10,300, plus another $1,000 for campus-based charges and an estimated additional $16,000 for room, board and books.

No wonder there is such a heated comments war in our blogs: With the raise, the cost of a UC education will be triple what it was a decade ago. Compared to other U.S. four-year public colleges, which have raised tuition and fees by an average 6.5% to $7,020 a year, a 32% fee hike is pretty notable.

On the L.A. Now blog, the battle rages on with two parties: non-UC students -- who seem to be a mixture of out-of-college adults, community college students and general California residents -- and current UC students. The former argue that current students are being unreasonably demanding.

Balancing the budget is never easy, is it?

Here is what the non-UC students have had to say so far:

Pablo defends his own interests against the fee hike protestors: Listen up, UC students. I'm about to lose my job and I'm close to losing my house. Do you want me to sell my 10-year old car so that I can pay for your incredibly cheap tuition?

He also said: Who taught these people that they were entitled to free (or unreasonably cheap) stuff in life?

Duken4evr believes UC students should explore other means available to pay for their education: They can always go to community college like the rest of us. Screw those spoiled brat UCLA students. Hit up your rich mommies and daddies for the difference. Cry me a river. What a bunch of useless losers.

SoCalReality presents a parent’s point of view: This state is bankrupt! Your FREE education ended at High School. You want to be treated like an adult, act like one and PAY YOUR OWN WAY. The UC system already subsidizes your education with fees below their cost. What you want is continuing "Student Welfare" on the backs of us Tax Payers; go to a cheaper collage or to a Cal State like my kids. But NO, you want caviar education paid by others. GROW UP!

And Reality takes a stand about the actual educational material: IF UC wants to save some money...get rid of the worthless soft-science degrees such as gender and ethnic studies and make those profesors get real jobs instead of pusing their anti-American rants on the tax payer dime!

Then UC students took a stand (after the jump):

Shouldn't students be able to get a bailout?

While huge banks, homeowners and automakers have received billions of federal dollars in bailouts, David Lazarus wonders why students -- the future of this country -- don't get the same treatment.

Like many recent college grads, Los Angeles resident Steven Lee finds himself unemployed in one of the roughest job markets in decades and saddled with a big pile of debt. He owes about $84,000 in student loans for undergrad and grad-school costs.

But what Lee's angry about isn't the slings and arrows of an outrageous economy, and it isn't the idea that he owes a ton of money for all the learning he's received.

It's the interest rates on his government-backed student loans, which range from 6.8% to a whopping 8.5%.

"That's just ridiculous," Lee, 35, told me. "The rate for a 30-year mortgage is around 5%. Why should anyone have to pay 8.5%?"

Read Lazarus' piece here and watch the video above, and when you're done feel free to chime in below  with an answer to the question: Shouldn't students also receive a bailout? Their fees and tuition have skyrocketed over the last decade -- suppose we give them a hand?

-- Tony Pierce

President Obama's speech to school children

The White House has posted the speech President Obama will deliver to school children Tuesday. We have a copy of it below. Give it a read and let us know if you think the controversy preceding the event is merited.

The President: Hello everyone – how’s everybody doing today? I’m here with students at Wakefield High School in Arlington, Virginia. And we’ve got students tuning in from all across America, kindergarten through twelfth grade. I’m glad you all could join us today. 

I know that for many of you, today is the first day of school. And for those of you in kindergarten, or starting middle or high school, it’s your first day in a new school, so it’s understandable if you’re a little nervous. I imagine there are some seniors out there who are feeling pretty good right now, with just one more year to go. And no matter what grade you’re in, some of you are probably wishing it were still summer, and you could’ve stayed in bed just a little longer this morning.

I know that feeling. When I was young, my family lived in Indonesia for a few years, and my mother didn’t have the money to send me where all the American kids went to school. So she decided to teach me extra lessons herself, Monday through Friday – at 4:30 in the morning.   

Now I wasn’t too happy about getting up that early. A lot of times, I’d fall asleep right there at the kitchen table. But whenever I’d complain, my mother would just give me one of those looks and say, "This is no picnic for me either, buster."

Shortchanging the state universities -- or ourselves?

The new state budget continues a years-long trend in resources allocated to the University of California and California State University: less than they need, by an ever-widening margin.

Sure, things are tough statewide. We’ve been living beyond our means.

But the problem with applying these bromides to the educational system is that the state universities are the closest thing to an investment in the state’s future that we can budget for.

Nevertheless, every year we fall further behind in producing the college graduates industry needs. Come 2025, the demand for college-educated workers in California will rise to 41% of the state’s workforce, according to a projection by the Public Policy Institute of California -- up from about 34% today and 28% in 1990.

Will they be homegrown? Not if current trends continue.

“Clearly we will not meet these needs,” says Lt. Gov. John Garamendi, who sits ex officio on both the Cal State Board of Trustees and the UC Board of Regents. “We are not producing nurses and technicians and engineers in the numbers we have to. We are making a very serious economic mistake when we don’t support higher education.”

CSU has been forced to close its doors to 10,000 students who would be otherwise be eligible, says CSU Chancellor Charles Reed. That will cut the student body to about 450,000, he says, reducing the corps of graduates to 85,000 a year from 90,000.

“The state is at a crossroads,” Reed says. “What kind of California do we want? A state with one of the best workforces in the world, with many innovative and creative people? One that’s economically competitive on a worldwide basis?”

Should Cal State and UC get special attention in the state budget?

-- Michael Hiltzik

Read the full column: Cutting school? When will the state learn?

Photo: UCLA's Royce Hall. Credit: Mel Melcon / Los Angeles Times

Bristol claims Sarah Palin's views had no influence on her choice to be a mother

Bristol Palin admitted that though she had a lot of experience babysitting and loves her infant son, she wished that her pregnancy could have occurred 10 years later. But instead of admitting that she should have waited until she was more responsible to become sexually active, the 18-year-old mother states that teaching abstinence to teenagers is an unrealistic request.

The daughter of Sarah Palin told Fox News that her mother's political views had nothing to do with her decision to keep her her child, admitting, “It doesn’t matter what my mom’s views are on it. It was my decision.” Upon finding out the younger Palin's views did not align with her mother's staunch Republican Party views, readers took to the blogs.

almas wrote: On here you're a thinly-veiled liberal, but I'll respond to this article anyhow. Abstinence teaching is essential. We've got to stop making it seem like an OK thing to have sex before you're mature enough to have babies or handle the complications of sex. Hollywood doesn't help---they don't have a clue.

rckstrdave wrote: Abstinence education is counterproductive--I was present for plenty of it in high school. No one learned anything, nobody waited to have sex, and the useful information we needed when we became sexually active was denied to us. People used to get married and have babies at 13... the teenage years are when the urge kicks in. Obviously, social standards and laws have changed, presumably to protect "innocent children," but systematic denial is a bad practice for any problem. Telling horny teenagers they can't have sex until they get married is a disaster situation. "You mean if I want to have sex, I have to become like my angry, divorced parents? No way! I'm having sex now and never getting married!" That's what abstinence education really taught us. Thank god for Trojan commercials, Planned Parenthood, and a handful of brutally honest adults that saved us all from the fate the "abstinence only" nut jobs tried to force upon us.

And cheers to Bristol Palin for saying it's OK to be pro-choice, keep the baby, and stand up to ultra-right wing nut jobs like her mother who push an agenda of fear and misinformation on the youth.

Read more about comments on the Palin-versus-Palin debate below.

Some readers prefer cheating

Carla Rivera's article "Orange County group wants AP scores restored" has drawn some unlikely reader support -- for cheaters. A group of high schoolers is suspected of "paying a former student, who used fraudulent identification," to take the ACT test under their own names. The ACT is practically a rite-of-passage for college-bound high school students, and a hopeful alternative for those who earned less than stellar scores on the SAT.  The College Board's decision to investigate the matter, and potentially cancel the suspects' scores, has caused a debate among readers.

Reader Sloan believes that the real problem lies with "the cheaters who get caught. Concealing the cheating is the winners touch. People who don't cheat have no idea."

X takes a similar, pro-cheating stance; "Cheat and don't get caught. You success depends on it. And if you do get caught cheating -- never admit to it. Just keep your mouth shut, and let everyone else do the talking. Let them threaten you. Even if they through the book at you -- never ever tell anyone what actually happened. Not your mom, not your friend -- nobody. If no one can prove it -- you can't get in trouble."

Cucucachu sympathetically wonders "if they only knew how simple it is to cheat on that test."

Sahar is more neutral on the topic, but does acknowledge that "high school classes are really hard and the pressure that is put upon us makes everything harder. We realize that we have to score really high on tests such as SAT or ACT to be able to get into good colleges. Not only do we have to score high on the entrance exams, we also have other classes that we have to get A's in. For an average student, there are 6 classes everyday with the exception of tests/quizzes and homework everyday. I am not saying that cheating is the right thing, but many students do it because they are backed in an corner and have to pass the exams."

Thousands of teachers and students strike together

Since thousands of teachers spent the first hour of school protesting anticipated budget cuts, The Homeroom has heard from lots of people who have a stake in school funding and the teachers union. Some excerpts from them:

A.J. Duffy, UTLA president:
It is a myth that teachers can’t be fired. Hundreds of teachers are fired each year.  If administrators would do their jobs, get out of their offices, give struggling teachers help and support, most teachers would be successful. Those who do not belong in the profession need to be written up.  On that we all agree.

Elizabeth Schmid:
I couldn't agree more with Tim's insightful comments about UTLA.  I am a young teacher working in a Los Angeles middle school, and I too was torn about the UTLA walkout.  In my opinion, the best way to cut spending in LAUSD would be to divide this astronomically large district into small, efficient districts that could respond more specifically to each region's needs.

Ben:
The teacher is the number one factor in a student's success, and we need happy, experienced teachers in the classroom. The recent board proposal to cut buyback days and create furlough days is not going to make teachers happy, forcing them out of the classroom or to other districts where they can earn a better salary. One of the key factors in student achievement is having experienced teachers, and we have a huge problem in LAUSD with teacher attrition. Although you may call the UTLA self serving for teachers, it is ultimately the students who suffer when the district pushes out their best teachers through budget cuts.

-- Mary MacVean

Photo: Brian  Vander Brug / Los Angeles Times