An unlikely union: readers weigh in

In Joe Mozingo's three-part story, we're introduced to Pam Griffin, a successful Omaha lawyer, and her husband Robert, an inmate in California state prison. 

Mozingo writes about the two, in Part One of their story:

He would be identified as a leader of one of the nation's most violent prison gangs, the Aryan Brotherhood. Prosecutors would say he earned the name "Blinky" because he could order an inmate's death with the blink of an eye.

She would buy a home on a street shaded by ash trees in a suburb of Omaha.

Share your thoughts on this series here.

Photo: Annie Wells/Los Angeles Times

Comments

[Bob Krohn]

God, what a mentally sick woman.
Another symptom of our declining society.
I believe it actually has a clinical name.
"Soap-Opera Syndrome" which I think is a variation of Munchhausen Syndrome. This article has done much damage by reinforcing the public pity these sick people crave.

[Barbara]

Pam Griffin is a tragic figure of her own making. It is unclear to me why she never sought mental health counseling.

Devotion long ago turned to delusion. Hers has been a solitary life nurtured by unfulfilled dreams and hopes.

I wish her well.

[Barbara]

Pam Griffin is a tragic figure of her own making. It is unclear to me why she never sought mental health counseling.

Devotion long ago turned to delusion. Hers has been a solitary life nurtured by unfulfilled dreams and hopes.

I wish her well.

[Timoteo]

I believe only those soulless cynics with the hardest of hearts would fail to be moved by this feature.
What an astounding story!
A harrowing commentary on our prison system.
A tragic example of our justice system gone awry.
But most importantly, a beautiful love story artfully told.
What the Griffins' have is a precious gift.
They serve as perfect examples of how rich and wonderful the love shared by two people can be.
I pray that one day they will be able to embrace one another.
Regardless, they have more today than most of us will ever allow ourselves to have.

[michele]

and who's to judge who, when,why they change? is there a time limit? were u there - in their heart, head, emotional past, present? With a 42 y.o. son who has spent most of his life in jail, drugs the reason, believe me, I read his letters, hundreds, same old thing, "....the choices I made......only myself to blame, ........so lonely....nothing to live for....I love you, Mom - thank you for answering my letters.... good days - bad days - desperate days...broken heart days... I wish I had chosen differently - next time out......."
You think the human mind/body is not complex, multifaceted, driven, is it through and through evil to the core - so you know, do you, Bob?
And how does one twin's DNA turn out one way and the other half another way? Some see beyond the outside and can empathize with the inner turmoil some live through. Some are not given the opportunity to die soon enough and end their lack of opportunity for a future to change outside of the cell. Strange how you call Pam mentally ill. Their connection was the written word, emotions expressed and shared - they each grew and hurt no-one. What's your problem? Go read Paradise Lost, Dante's Inferno, some Shakespeare and some e.e.cummings. Wake up and read a little.

[Andy Wilkins]

What a sad delusional women. This man is part of the Aryan Brotherhood, a racist neo-nazi gang. The evidence he ordered these murders is overwhelming. Yet this woman - seemingly smart, successful - throws away her life for him. Maybe she is afraid of real world relationships, where the man might leave you or things don't work out. So she has a relationship with a man in a cage. Sad.

[Alex]

It is reassuring that he will spend the rest of his life behind bars, it is disappointing that he did not suffer the death penalty.

[David]

Great series; thanks.

His is a life wasted; hers, too. They're the perfect couple.

[S. Callahan]

This article is so very sad. Obviously, none of the readers were at the trial, or know the evidence, so it really isnt fair to judge. Miscarriages of justice are not uncommon, and the case seems to depend primarily on the testimony of informants rather than hard physical evidence. The sentance is very harsh, harsher than many countries around the globe. Even if the charges are true, there comes a time in someone's life when they no longer pose a threat to society at large. This doesnt seem to be a clear case where the possibility of parole ought to be denied for ever. Or even the possibilty to kiss his wife.

[m]

Sappy. If you spent as much energy reporting on the acts of savagery committed by the AB as you did making this article sound so romantic, you'd get more readers.

I believe that's an "88" on her wedding ring. The AB use 88 as a code for "Heil Hitler" (the eigth letter of the alphabet=H, thus 88=HH)--how sweet.

[David Jones]

A compelling piece of reporting that raises serious questions about violence and racism in our society, about the brutality and absurdity of a prison system that breeds murderers rather than rehabilitates young offenders, about relationships, love and loneliness.

[Kathy]

Something went by me here. If Robert hasn't been in the gang for 20 years, what was the letter he allegedly wrote after the 1996 murder? That was just dropped in there and never amplified. The research says that many psychopaths are extremely charming and this seems to be true of Robert in his relationships to his wife and to the homies in his gang. In this case, the charm seems to have worked on a very vulnerable woman for a very long time. From the story as written, I am quite happy that he is still behind bars.

[kelly]

I knew Pam was sick when she married her jailed brother-in-law. The entire article showed how sick she really was. As a retired homicide detective, we tried to place sick people like Robert in jail from society to avoid further damage to families and society. What do you do with a person that as sick as Pam? I do not think there's a law against being stupid. What a wasted life.

[mikemi]

He's been associated with murders. He should never be allowed to walk free on that coastline. Prisons were built for predators like him. As for her...it's her choice.

[Elizabeth Zach]

Most interesting for me - and, oddly, I expected that by the third series, this would be confirmed - is the mention of Robert's practicing Buddhism. This Eastern faith essentially teaches that life is hard and that desire is suffering. If you can embrace those two tenets, the path becomes easier. So, in essence, whether he is released from prison or remains behind bars, Buddhism teaches that you can attain peace regardless of where you geographically are.

[Bill]

This is a joke...what a waste. For a woman with obvious intelligence and feelings to fall for this type of person is a total joke! I don't feel sorry for anyone who has been responsible for so much pain and suffering. Robert Griffin deserves everything he is getting. The Aryan Britherhood stands for nothing but hatred and misery. He and his organization are a blight on this country and everything good it stands for. If he really was repentant as he claims, he would become an informant on the brotherhood in order to help rid us of this heinous organization. To all California law enforcement and correction officials, please do us all a favor and keep this man incarcerated until he finally dies and goes to his just rewards. He is a blight and should remain isloated until his usless life ends! As for Pamela, I can only say I feel sorry for her; to have wasted a great deal of her life fighting for such a useless individual is a shame. Hopefully, she finds real peace for the remainder of her life.

[Rachael]

Why don't we see any remorse from Robert Griffin? Why don’t we hear about the families of the men who were killed? I think this piece does more to sensationalize the muscle-bound unrepentant criminal who picks up racism to pass the time than objectively report all the facts.

[Celtic Mist]

A very sad story. Some of the comments here are understandable, but still the vitriol surprises me. I wonder where the forgiveness is - and the opportunity for redemption. some don't ever deserve it, perhaps some have earned it. that's the thing our prison system has never sorted out.

what is sad for me is there isn't the budget, it would seem, to have a section of the prison system utterly dedicated to rehabilitation. to stop first time offenders from becoming repeat offenders (outside of the criminally insane, psychopaths, etc) and firmly embedded in the prison life. to have someone enter the system with the hope of rehabilitating them and have them go back into the world to live a fruitful good life. Griffin seemed to be on a strong path to redemption.

Did the lady in this story waste her life? Some people would say yes, possibly, others will say she lived a fantasy relationship that was non-threatening because it was not 'real life'... then again, perhaps her relationship was more real than many couples who are together in the flesh.

the AB is hideous and despicable. no excuse for them, and must be eradicated. but at one point in the article it explained that in the 70s the prison system was particularly weak and fostered race problems - and this AB, of many, gangs emerged out of it. authorities never seemed to have been able to put the genie back in the bottle on these gangs.

overall it was an excellent article as it gave insight into some worlds i am not privy too - and to which i would not want to actually be in real life privy to...

[Wes]

This is an incredible article and artfully written. Few have the courage of Pamela. Maybe even fewer are blessed to be loved so unconditionally.

[dogma]

I'm surprised at how judgmental and angry many of the commenters are. To say Pam "wasted her life" seems rather shallow. Who's to say your lives (our lives), perhaps dull and ordinary, aren't a waste of potential? I think the point of the article is to show how strange and unexpected love can be. You can analyze and judge all you want but, to me, the love they share is real, deep and layered with complexities. The article was well-written and was told without judgment.

[Wes]

What can I say? I just finished your series this morning and upon finishing it I burst into tears. This is the saddest and most beautiful story I have ever read in a newspaper. I just can't believe it's true. To think that someone would spend their whole life devoted to someone in such a situation. What a testament to committment and faithfulness that is so rare these days.

I personally believe that newspaper writing has an obligation to report from the margins of society and give the "minority report" of those who have been sidelined or oppressed. You've done that here leading us to sympathize with Robert and Pamela. I just couldn't imagine my life lived in isolation apart from my wife. Yet in the closing lines of your series it is made so crystal clear how Pam's faithfulness is the only thing keeping Robert alive. You see how all of her suffering isn't for nothing. It is the salvation of Robert.

I don't know if you were going there or not, but for me this is a good anology of the Christian understanding of salvation. I relate to Robert, as one who has sinned and can never really be free of that. And yet, God, represented by Pamela, loves with unyielding grace.

Anyway, thanks for the good piece of writing.

[Goetz Wolff]

It is with great sadness, but anger as well, that we are canceling our 7-day a week subscription to the LA Times, which has been going since 1980 when I returned to Los Angeles.

During those years the LA Times became a highly respected paper with great and comprehensive reporting.

However, in the last few years it has been groveling in the trivia and fluff of "personal interest" stories ON THE FRONT PAGE, cutting back on hard reporting while adding entertainment "features" such as the Envelope.

The Business section which once really covered critical economic issues now deals with personal finance.

The once respectable Opinion section (which went through a couple of ridiculous transformations along the way) now is little more than a couple extra columns in the first part of the Sunday paper.

And the fine efforts to establish a decent book review section has been buried as part of another section. And I could go on.

Certainly, the last straw has been the exile of national and international stories (if carried at all) to the back pages, because of the space-consuming trash on the front page. This has culminated with the latest news transgression: as much as a third (!!!) of the front page has been devoted to a soap opera report about a woman who was married to a prison inmate.

I truly feel sorry for the remaining few real reporters whose livelihood depends upon the LA Times--but the buck, literally, stops here with this subscriber.

The upside of our decision is that the money we save makes our NY Times subscription more affordable.

[RUTHIE MARSHALL]

I would just like to let Pam know she is not alone. I am in the same kind of situation. It's not fair for anyone to pass judgement on Pam or anyone else. We love who we love and that's all that matters. It's hard dealing with trials in court and out of court. Pam you must be an amazing woman and a very strong women. I will keep you & Robert in my thoughts and prayers. Stay stong for each other
God Bless
Ruthie Marshall

[geri wilson]

Mozingo does a brilliant job of juxtaposing the Catch-22 of their lives together and of Robert's life.

this could be a textbook journalism piece, demonstrating how you use specific facts - incidents - to create emotion in the reader. . ."showing, never telling."

Mozingo did an amazing job, leaving me with empathy for pam and robert warring with my distaste and sense of righteousness (god help me) against what he did and my tendency to want to psychoanalyze pam's choice of robert.

maybe in the end it's as one novelist said (can't remember exact quote but. . .), "lives are messy."

[Michael]

It's unfair to speculate on this woman's mental health, although it is hard to resist the temptation. Most of us simply can't understand why someone would choose such a sad, secret, and isolated life, so we assume she must somehow be nuts. But Robert Griffin is clearly a sociopath and some sociopaths are extremely good at manipulating people, even sane and intelligent people. Although this story is very sad, the real tragedy would have occurred if Griffin had been released. Pam Griffin's fantasies would have been dashed in fairly short order. As long as Griffin is in prison, Pam Griffin can maintain her illusions, continue to write and receive love letters, and cling to her fantasies of noble, doomed love. On another note, why did the editors at the Times think that this story deserved so much attention and space? A sad, deluded woman falls for a vicious sociopath. This is news?

[ar]

Thank you for this wonderful and heartbeaking series. I truly enjoyed it.

[ABridges]

Capital J journalism. Thank you.

[Bill Becher]

No wonder the newspaper business is failing. Why the editors would waste this much space on the story of a whack-job woman and a thug is beyond comprehension

[James Wilson]

The Federal prosecutors did a great job to keep this evil man in jail. Robert Griffin should never be allowed freedom. He was responsible for many deaths. Pamela Griffin is a mentally deranged woman who wasted a large portion of her life. The winner in this story was the brother that Pamela divorced. I'm sure he is glad he got out of that marriage.

[AC]

What to say? This was an amazing piece of writing, I believe that this writer has to be comended for telling the story of this couple. Their thoughts exposed for everyone to judge, and judge they have. In the early sixites, I was incarerated for almost two years. Yet, I did not come from a gang or an evioronment that breeds a repeat performance. You have a choice, I made my choice not to go back and I have not. You must understand the amount of peer pressure that is imposed upon you once you enter the system, white, hispanic, black, asian etc. It is the failure of our prison system and society in general that keeps this environment alive. Yes, Pam cheated herself of a family life, children and true happiness. Robert did not let her go, he is hanging on to her for his own sanity, otherwise he would kill himself. Don't judge, just learn, try to understand. Yes, their pyschlogical label you can put on this couple, however, it is their chosen life. They made a choice to continue to live this way. This story would made a good movie, I hope?

[PJ]

I could not believe that I was reading that story in the LA Times....Pam is not the first to be manipulated by a sociopath that is in prison.....nor I am afraid to be the last. I kept waiting for something good to come out of the story but that never happened...........what a sad sad story all the way around......and one that will not make a positive difference in the world.

[DONNA]

THIS WOULD MAKE A GREAT MOVIE, BRILLIANTLY WRITTEN, HAS ALL THE SENSATIONALISM THAT PEOPLE CRAVE !! COULD NOT PUT IT DOWN !! I CAN NOT BELIEVE IT IS TRUE, BUT THEY SAY TRUTH IS STRANGER THAN FICTION..DO NOT JUDGE THIS WOMAN, SHE IS IN CONTROL OF HERSELF OR ELSE SHE WOULD NEVER HAVE SUCCEEDED AS WELL AS SHE DID. WHO ARE WE TO PASS OUR MORALS ONTO SOMEONE ELSE. ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE ROBERT AND HE MAY HAVE CHANGED BECAUSE OF THE LOVE OF A GOOD WOMAN !! HOPE PEOPLE WILL FORGIVE !! GOOD LUCK AND MAY GOD FORGIVE YOU ROBERT AND I HOPE YOU FORGIVE YOURSELF !!

[RJH]

What is the point here? I guess it's a love story, but sometimes you have to walk away from love, because sometimes love is just not enough. It's not going to free anyone from a prison cell or from insanity. There are plenty of love stories..out there. I have a love story that I believe is a great story, that could be made into a film..and I am sure that many of us do have a story like that ...so how does the Times come up with this sad story to print? What makes it so special. As a times reader, I would like to see a love story of people who aren't insane killers, regular people dealing with real life obstacles to love, not the freakin Ariyan Brotherhood, and the sad charachters who choose to love them.

[Maggie]

How nice of the self-righteous to rear their ugly heads in this forum. Lest anyone forget, Moses killed an Egyptian over racial issues. Even tho Moses transgressed, God still used him. That tells me there is redemption for all. I guess all you are sinless and you've never cheated on your spouse, on your taxes, never lied, cheated, or stolen, and never gossipped; and are therefore qualified to demonize this couple. So to all the haters out there, please remember it was very brave of Pam to come forward knowing that all of you would villify her and Robert. In this series, I saw a woman truly devoted to a man who needed her as much as the air he breathes. I wish both of God's children the very best of their situation.

[Monica Dobbs]

It frustrates and saddens me that someone who, by all appearances, is unlikely ever to harm again, who has withdrawn from the lifestyle that landed him in trouble, would be targeted so single-mindedly. I know that retribution is a part of the reason for incarceration, but in a highly overcrowded system, and especially with circumstantial evidence or the testimony of someone seeking only to save their own hide, it's disturbing and disgusting.

That someone of Robert's background has avoided disciplinary action in a corrections facility for 20 some years is utterly remarkable. It's not a characteristic of a man playing the system, it's one of a changed man.

What's even more disturbing and disgusting is how quick people are to judge and condemn, not Robert, but Pamela. There isn't NEARLY enough love in this world to begin with and the commentors, swooping in like vultures to attack her personality or mental health should be ashamed!

I commend the Times for running this human interest piece.

[DL]

I learned a lot about people and life by reading this series. Truly amazing. I was capitivated by it- getting a glimpse into prison life. I don't judge Pam- how can I? Only she knows what caused her to choose that path for herself. I don't think she is mentally ill, but something has kept her from pursuing happiness on the outside, in a realistic world.

As for Robert, I believe there is some good in every human and I hope he finds peace. However, I still think prison is the best place for him. He can't truly erase his actions from 20-30 years ago or rid himself of gang ties, no matter how long it's been.

[DL]

I have to post again to say I'm still torn sometimes about this. Robert seems like a changed man, but what message does that send out to criminals if people are released because they claim to be changed. I still don't understand why he wouldn't just become an informant. As one of the founders of the gang, he just couldn't let go of that loyalty, regardless of whether or not he was in the gang anymore.

[MS]

Great art is about eliciting an emotional reaction, whether positive or negative. Based on the comments, it is clear that Joe is fluent in the art of great story telling. This is a beautiful, if not controversial story. Today, so few people truly understand the commitment of marriage of real, true and loyal love. To stand by someone for 20 years without so much as an embrace or touch is true commitment. Robert is a very lucky man.

[Sheila]

Reallly well written article all around. As for Pam, I cannot begin to understand what she is all about, but the AB is just despicable all around. There's a reason her husband is behind bars.

[Shasha]

OMG!! I spent an hour reading all three articles, taking care to go over the details. The only thing I can say is that I feel sorry for this woman who crossed a moral boundary by marrying her ex-husband's brother. I feel sick when I think about the wasted life she's led. I understand that everyone needs someone to love them, but this was a complete waste of life. What does she have? She's grown old alone, and will most likely die alone. She certainly will not have Robert by her side. Also, he has been selfish not to encourage her to move on, when she was younger and could still have a normal life. I am really sickened by this article, because too many women get caught up in romantic relationships that are really pointless and most often detrimental to their wellbeing. This is a prime example of a woman with low self esteem. Maybe she feels she didn't deserve anything better than someone who is clearly a criminal and pathological liar. What if this guy had gotten out? Then what? Does she think that she would live life happily ever after. This guy has been in prison so long that he's now institutionalized. If he ever gets out, which I hope he does not, what good is he going to be to her? This story is not tragic, instead it is a sadistic commentary on women like Pamela Griffin who do not realize that they are being used by these retrobate scum of the earth. I only hope that someone in her circle of family and friends step up and try to encourage her to start utilizing the services of a psychiatrist.

[Robin]

What an amazing job you have done in telling this compelling story. This is exactly why print newspapers can not become extinct- it just wouldn't be the same to read it anywhere but the comfort of my kitchen table. Thank you for your good work.

[N/A]

Listen to this one the LA Times does a three part story on a murderer and his poor wife that can't be together nice! They also went a step further and put a picture of my loved one in their paper and on the internet DEAD in a pool of his own blood from being shot three times in the back of the head execution style!!! Because of this man and his power in the AB!! Why not do a story on the heartbreak, tragedy and loss this caused our family for generations now???? Not the LA Times they instead glorify a notorious prison gang leader and his wife!!! Unimaginable right??

Our family was never contacted to see if this picture might cause more damage. But we called and got our apology from the editor and writer but really what good does that do? Its still out there and eyes that shouldn't have seen such a horrific picture have seen it.So now we start our grieving all over again for a man that was trully an innocent but happened to have an evil son like this man in the article. But lets just focus on this poor guy (that's in prison!!!) and his wife don't worry about our family the people that are really paying the ultimate price right???>

[Sporty]

Wow, did any of you notice that anyone that leaves the "Brand" is targeted? I believe the article said only children were exempt. With the knowledge she has about the gang, how big do you think the target on her would have been.

Come on, the older the rose, the thicker and harder the thorns.

Not to mention, very few prisoners want rehabilitation because it's a way of life and the only one they know. They'll be the first to tell you they can't survive life on the outside.

Unfortunately for the rest of us, they have too many rights and too many lawyers fighting for them for the wrong reasons.

[Zo]

I found this story compelling, and as newsworthy as the piece on auto industry executives nobly accepting annual salaries of $1.00 to bolster their case for requesting an astronomical bailout funded by taxpayers. Probably not murderers, but I think a week or two in an 8 X 12 cell might do them some good. We're all sinners, whether we're wearing a three piece suit or prison blues..

Having worked in the Juvenile Justice system, I know that the notion of rehabilitation is just that, a notion, with no motion. And that there is nothing more dangerous even in juvenile detention, than refusing to claim a gang.

To me, this was a well told story of just how strange love, in all its permutations, can be. I feel no desire to judge Robert or Pam. I'll leave that for someone at a higher pay grade than me (ie. God).

[schnazzybo]

This story is the perfect example of the way the prison and court system and the people in general in this country hold your past offenses against you forever. Theirs is a story that is touching and sad, and maybe she should have left him a long time ago and moved on, but I think the beauty of their story is that she didnt. she didnt just abandon him because he was in prison, the way most people would, theirs is a true love story and I wish them well

[schnazzybo]

he who is without sin---let him cast the first stone

[BG]

A few of the commenters here stated that Robert Griffin should become an informant. I don't think his reason for not doing so has much, if anything to do with loyalty. If he were to inform, he runs the risk of having his loved ones killed. He already knows first hand what the Aryan Brotherhood is willing to do to get back at snitches. They could go after him, Pam, friends, family. The possible consequences of him informing are too dangerous to those around him for him to seriously consider it. As far as my opinion on whether or not Pam and Robert Griffin's love for each other is real or sick, it doesn't matter. I wasn't there at any point in their lives. I don't have any experience with this type of romantic relationship. Any hateful comments aren't going to change the fact that they love each other and we'll only serve the commenters in inflating their egos. Robert Griffin is obviously not a saint but as far as the between this husband and wife, live and let live.

[wintersmith]

Yeah! Let's keep Robert Griffin in prison forever because he was a violent thug back when we thought Sheena Easton was the best! The state of California *wants* to pay $30,000 a year to house this guy's increasingly decrepit and therefore expensive butt because it would be sick and wrong to have his wife take him off our hands!

That'll send criminals a message! Because you know, when you're young, you always think about the long-term consequences of your actions. And you're always on the lookout for some sad old geezer and thinking, hey, that could be me!

[Daniel]

Remember the great Terence, those of you who read this entire story, with moralistic blinders and self-righteous contempt for this " sick" man and woman, who wrote two thousand years ago, "Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto", translated "I am human, thus, nothing human is strange to me" and " Where there's life there's hope".

What a sad cramped life without that empathy, even for the predator. Might as well forget about following Jesus' example.

[David]

Pam did NOT waste her life! She finished two schools, passed the Bar and practised law successfully for many years. She traveled, had friends, and was close to her family. Her relationship may seem unconventional to many but that was HER choice.

Personally, I was touched by her story. Whether we like it or not, she connected with someone soul to soul. Isn't that what we'd ALL like for ourselves? To have a relationship that connects us to someone in a deep, meaningful way? Not a relationship just for convenience, [I'm getting old, I want kids!] or for convention, [He or she is the best option available right now, and I'm not getting any younger, plus all my friends are married!] or curiosity, [He or she will do until someone better comes along!] but a relationship where the deeper you dig into the core of their soul, the MORE pleasantly surprised you become with that person, not disappointed.

She seems to have found that with Robert, despite their distance, inability to have physical contact, etc. How many out there who are living in much better circumstances, and who are married, dating, involved, etc. but are still LONELY? How many can't figure out why? Maybe it's because they haven't really connected with their partner's soul ! Or, don't like what they've seen, or are afraid to look any further. She has made the soul to soul connection, maybe in an unconventional way, but she has, so cut her some slack!