L.A. streetcar update

Los Angeles officials are saying that construction of the downtown streetcar they want to build here could begin as early as two years from now, reports Anna Scott in the Downtown News today. Interest has ramped up as part of the initiative by Councilman Jose Huizar to revive Broadway in downtown L.A.

Two years? That would mean the streetcar would hurdle over other L.A. projects that have spent years or decades in the planning stages. People mover at LAX, green line to LAX, L.A. River revitalization, brining back the NFL, putting a park on top of the 101 Freeway in downtown, extending the subway -- all a lot of talk to this point.

There is a little glitch with the streetcar effort: They don't have a single dime of funding yet for a project expected to cost north of $70 million. But streetcar proponents earlier this month formed a nonprofit organization to build the line, same as was done in Portland -- where the streetcar ignited the ongoing national trend to bring them back. Blogdowntown has also been diligently covering.

Something to keep in mind: About $19.4-million of the cost of the construction of Portland's $103-million streetcar was paid through new property taxes targeting those who live closest to the train, according to Portland officials.

A few minutes ago I phoned Huizar's office to see if he wants to install a local assessment district to help build the streetcar. I got a recorded message. Scott, in the Downtown News, reports that the nonprofit will be seeking donations.

I spent the weekend in San Francisco, where the city is running historic streetcars -- something Jason Burns is pushing over at Metblog Los Angeles. They're neat to look at, but I can tell you based on a short ride along the Embarcadero between the Ferry Building and Fisherman's Wharf, the streetcars are also overrun with tourists.

Two lessons I think L.A. can learn: If you put a streetcar in all the touristy places, it will be overrun by tourists. And if you assume tourists are going to know how to put $1.50 in the fare box or not stand in front of the train or not block doorways, then you have assumed wrong.

-- Steve Hymon

Photo credit: Steve Hymon / Los Angeles Times

Comments

[Kymberleigh Richards]

A rebuttal to Alex F ("DASH's have been around for years, but have never been fully successful, only having low ridership and very low appeal, while offering confusing routes"):

I asked LADOT about that and they were kind enough to give me ridership data from earlier this year. The downtown DASH routes -- combined -- carry just over 24,000 passengers per weekday. That is far above the level which would be considered "not fully successful".

What needs to be understood is that DASH routes are constructed based not on straight lines but on the origin and destination points used by riders. In contrast, the streetcar appears to be designed to operate in a straight line on Broadway, with no guarantees that it will go where someone needs it to.

Given that, I must agree that the streetcar's primary appeal would be as a tourist attraction, and would likely play a key role in the redevelopment of the Broadway corridor. That is not a bad thing, in my opinion, but it does not constitute true public transportation, as DASH does.

[Alek F]

Brief response to a person "CPH" (Commenter #1),
to your comment #2: "What is the real need for this streetcar that can't be met with, say expanding the DASH system?"
Well, to answer this (absurd) question - the DASH system practically cannot do ANYTHING, while Streetcar can accomplish EVERYTHING.
Don't you know the difference between DASH and Streetcars? The latter runs on tracks, meaning - a dedicated, permanent route is provided, thus it is fully dependable and viewable, while the DASH bus does not have a permanent route, just an assigned path; it can go away any day, any time. DASH buses are never as attractive to riders as Streetcars are; DASH buses would never promote the pedestrian environment or enhance our city's appearance like the Streetcars would.
DASH's have been around for years, but have never been fully successful, only having low ridership and very low appeal, while offering confusing routes; while Streetcars have been around for decades, and have been extremely popular worldwide, offering much higher capacity (than little DASH buses) and very high ridership.
Was that enough reasons, or should I continue?...

[cph]

I have a number of nagging questions/issues that keep me from being a gung-ho Broadway streetcar cheerleader...

1. If this is being built entirely with public money, that's one thing. But I can't see spending scarce transit funds on what is essentially a tourist attraction, while needs around the county go unfunded.

2. What is the real need for this streetcar that can't
be met with, say expanding the DASH system?

3. Where is this thing going to go? At least if it hit Union Station on one end, and perhaps the Staples Center/Convention Center area on the other, it would be more valuable than just running a few blocks up and down Broadway. Additionally, has any thought been given to a possible expansion of this system? Or where do the streetcars go when they're out of service/being maintained or repaired?

4. How is it going to interface with the existing traffic? Broadway (as are most streets downtown) has a lot of bus traffic. Will this streetcar share bus stops, or will it need its own?

5. (and this bugs me most) this streetcar is being promoted as a tool to "bring Broadway back". I wasn't aware that Broadway "went away"; it still remains a viable shopping district for the neighborhoods just outside of Downtown. I would think very carefully about any proposed changes to Broadway, streetcar or not.

In general, I think the demand for this streetcar, as it is proposed now, is not really driven by any real *transportation* need.

[Aaron]

Matthew: To be fair, I've been on the F-Market many times - they've made it extremely wheelchair accessible (I'm in a wheelchair myself). But that will involve a commitment to building mini-high platforms along the route, and Broadway doesn't have the width that Market and Embarcadero do.

From where I sit, they are looking at the modern European low-floor streetcars, which will solve that problem.

Steve: The F-Market is a huge tourist success because it goes most places that the tourists want to go, except for the Haight and GG Bridge - it is an excellent "shuttle" between the hotels at Union Square and the touristy garbage at the Ferry Building and the Wharves - probably more than half of the tourist sites are served by the F-Market - 80% of them if you include the cable cars. This streetcar simply won't hit that many tourist attractions, and so using the F-Market as a comparison for ridership models isn't too useful.

[Bart Reed]

Most transit projects are really about funding or the lack thereof. The Portland and Seattle streetcar projects went in quickly as there was an agreement along the route with the local landowners and merchants who were willing to put up the DOLLARS to pay for the project and allow the necessary tax structures to be put in place to move the overall funding.

Both projects were mostly done aside from the existing Transit Authorities and had private capital and community consensus. This is the only model that would put a project such as a downtown streetcar on the street in two years, with the proper environmental approvals walked through.

Once this project touches Metro, add another 8 years and triple the costs. Can this be done? Yes, but the Portland / Seattle Private Development formula must be followed exactly with local fixes to move it smoothly.

Bob does make important points about amending the Mello Roos laws to allow transit financing.

The downside here is LA Dept. of Transportation that only cares about moving cars, not about moving increased amounts of people in the exact same space and will use the same bad policies that doomed the original streetcars in the 1940's and 1950's.

[BOB2]

Maybe the tooth fairy will pay for the downtown streetcar? Not a bad concept to stimulate and benefit a revitalized downtown. But, there is no free lunch, unless, of course, you're a well connected downtown developer? Benefit assessment is a necessity if this is top be done without stealing funds from other projects. Donations my (the Times won't let me use the colloquial three letter word for posterior?)!

This is something that needs to be put in perspective of a State and Region with no effective leadership on transportation finance issues? This would have been a good candidate for use of the Mello Roos option in the Jones Bill, which was killed in the legislature this session.

Also as someone who had been peripherally involved in the streetcar, the project still needs some significant technical refinement. The current project thinking has been somewhat amateurish, and further limited by the failed imagination at LADOT, which still insists on accomodating autos as their first priority in the Broadway corridor?

[Dan W.]

Cato Institute stands for the now discredited libertarian economic policies that Bush has pursued for eight years to disastrous effect. Cato is ground zero for automobile entitlement. I would hardly look to them as experts regarding streetcars or any form of public transit.

[rallenr]

For a different take on the not that successful streetcar implementation in Portland, one might visit: http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=8643.

[Dan W.]

Other possibilities for Streetcars after Broadway could be from Union Station to the Sunset Strip along Sunset, or Ventura Blvd. between the Red Line and Warner Center, or Santa Monica to Venice to Marina Del-Rey.

[Matthew]

I don't think the outlook is so bleak for this thing. It's not solely a tourist-based contraption, despite the fact that its two end points are touristy areas (Disney Hall/the Grand--if it ever happens--and LA Live), it'll also serve as a great "sidewalk extender" for all of the residents downtown, who still have to drive downtown's often huge distances between its sub-neighborhoods. More specifically, it'll better connect South Park with the Historic Core and Civic Center without having to resort to an annoying transfer to the molasses-speed Blue Line.

Having attended the seminar, I'm quite certain that the historic trams are not being favored, as they're less roomy and not easily handicap-accessible. This is a system going in to base development off of, just like the subway. It's the final catalyst for truly bringing downtown back and I'm very excited about the effect it'll have on redevelopment projects following it, which usually entail the extension of the streetcar to other areas throughout the city. This is precisely the focus LA needs to really get its urbanization right.