Subway to the sea Q&A

The MTA last month pared down its list of potential subway routes on the Westside. Four remain and the map at the right gives you a basic idea of what's still on the table.

There's a lot of interest in the project; the MTA even set up a Facebook page for it. So here's a quick Q&A for those not already obsessed with it.

What exactly is the MTA doing subway-wise?

The agency is finishing up an "alternatives analysis" to determine what type of additional mass transit would best serve the Westside.

As early as August, it is likely that the MTA staff will release a draft of their recommendations. First, they'll pick a mode of mass transit, said Jody Litvak, the project's spokeswoman. Based on what they've already said, it's likely to be a subway because it carries more people and doesn't get stuck in traffic.

Then the agency will pick a route.

Don't get too excited. This is a highly hypothetical exercise. There is no funding yet for a subway to the sea, nor has the MTA Board decided to go forward with the project. It's important, however, because the route chosen will likely be the one that is subject to more study -- making it the one likely to get built.

So, which route is it going to be?

I have pressed, pleaded, begged, sweet-talked and cajoled Litvak to tell me which route the MTA staff is going to choose for the presumptive subway. I tried again early this afternoon and Litvak repeated what she told me the last time: "I believe my exact words to you were 'we love all our alternatives equally'."

Most of the talk has centered on a route that largely follows Wilshire Boulevard but deviates to reach Century City. But the agency is also looking at a two-legged extension: one subway would go west along Wilshire and another would go west from Hollywood and then join up with the Wilshire line.

If you live in the San Fernando Valley, that's great news -- that line from Hollywood would be a shortcut to the Westside.

Litvak would only allow that there is significant support for the combo option. The map shows that the line would go through West Hollywood and the Beverly Center area, which Litvak said is a high-ridership area because it's also an area with a high job density.

The big problem, however, is money. Just building the Wilshire line has been estimated to cost $5 to $7 billion. The cost of building two lines? Throw a few more billion dollars on there.

What happens once the MTA picks a route?

Then it falls into the lap of the 13-member MTA Board, which will then be headed up by L.A. Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa. He just happened to run in 2005 on a platform of building the subway to the sea.

The Board will then have to make a choice. They can either say to Litvak & Co. something like "nice job on those power points, now get lost" or they can vote to begin environmental studies of the project.

She said that would mean "probably two more years of studies and engineering work before you could move into shovels and tunneling machines, assuming there's money."

Where do you think the subway should go? Would you be willing to pay more for it to go more places? Put on your transit planning hats and hit the 'comment' button below...

--Steve Hymon

Map: MTA

Comments

[richard schumacher]

After the 2nd Avenue subway in New York, the Subway to the Sea is the single most useful mass transit project now contemplated in the US. I vote for Alternative 11, or 1 if money is tight (but I suspect that with a new President and another year of gas above $4 transit funding will get a big boost).

Why do all of the remaining alternatives avoid Beverly Hills?

[Greg Kay]

Does anyone remember that paying down the bonds which funded the construction of the IND - the A,C,E,F,G trains nearly drove New York City into bankruptcy during the Great Depression? No, of course not. Everyone just knows that New York has great mass transit and Los Angeles is a transit nightmare. I'm not for giving carte blanche with the taxpayer money - a separate construction authority should be established for the purple line extension to ensure some kind of oversight. But have some perspective, Los Angeles! Take some risk! You aren't growing any smaller! Build the damn thing!

[SKD]

Today at 6pm the Santa Monica Freeway was backed up all the way from downtown LA to Santa Monica. Is there any further evidence that we needed this subway to be built ten years ago? Stop arguing, studying and procrastinating. Just build it! By the time it's finished we'll be paying $12 for a gallon of gas.

[James Smith]

A subway to the sea, if it gets built, will forever be known as "Villaraigosa's folly." Cost overruns will guarantee a $10 billion, or even $20 billion, final price tag.

In most cities, the subways come up for air once they get out of the central city. Running this extension, or extensions, above ground would save billions.

The MTA could even get creative (for once) and run it down the middle of Wilshire Blvd., slightly elevated, to create a miles long, auto free, park, restaurant and shopping district.

[Dan Wentzel]

"To be most cost effective and compete for federal funding the Western to Westwood Purple Line extension via Miracle Mile, Beverly Hills and Century City is the clear choice."
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I'm going to repeat what project manager David Mieger stated.

'What was surprising to us,' David Mieger, project manager said, 'is that adding Santa Monica Boulevard to the Wilshire route, in compliment to one another, it works [from a feasibility, cost and ridership perspective].'

[Dana Gabbard]

The additional ridership from the Hollywood link and/or diversion to serve Farmer's Market/Beverly Center comes at a huge additional cost for the project. To be most cost effective and compete for federal funding the Western to Westwood Purple Line extension via Miracle Mile, Beverly Hills and Century City is the clear choice.

[Dan Wentzel]

"If you live in the San Fernando Valley, that's great news -- that line from Hollywood would be a shortcut to the Westside."

That depends on what part of the San Fernando Valley one lives in. How is it a shortcut for people who live, say, west of Coldwater Canyon?

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It's still MUCH quicker than any of the current bus alternatives, be it the 156, 218 or misdesigned and misnamed "Rapid" 761.

Obviously there needs to be a Sepulveda rail line from Sylmar to LAX.

No one is stating that this proposal precludes this.

[KateNonymous]

"If you live in the San Fernando Valley, that's great news -- that line from Hollywood would be a shortcut to the Westside."

That depends on what part of the San Fernando Valley one lives in. How is it a shortcut for people who live, say, west of Coldwater Canyon?

[Jody Litvak]

My apologies everyone. I made an error in posting the link to the Study web page last night. So, just to make it easy for everyone, you can find us here:
http://www.metro.net/westside

You can find the May 2008 Presentation, with more information on the remaining alternatives and our analysis here:
http://www.metro.net/projects_studies/westside/images/2008_0505_presentation.pdf

And you can find our "Metro Westside Extension" Facebook group here:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=10040701921

So, lot's of ways to stay in touch, stay informed, and stay involved.

[Jody Litvak]

Thanks Steve for the nice write-up.

If you want to follow the study more closely, go to the study web site at http://www.metro.net/projects_studies/westside/default.htmGo to "News & Info" and then the "May 2008 Presentation" for more information on the remaining alternatives, how we go to this place, and where we go from here. Click on "Contact Us" and fill out our online comment form with your contact information so we can keep you in the loop about upcoming meetings and other developments. You can also find us on Facebook at "Metro Westside Extension."

[Paul]

This two alignments plan is very interesting. I didn't like it at first, but after studying the map, it seems pretty well thought-out. With the transfer required at Hollywood/Highland, it wouldn't further complicate the red line, and having two trains running to the same destination would make the line less crowded.

My only beef is I've always hoped they'd follow-up the Subway to the Sea with a light rail that follows the 405, since that highway is so packed with traffic. But it doesn't seem like they plan to add stops there.

And Larry, I'd advise you to ride the buses down Wilshire or Santa Monica during rush hour. There is a TREMENDOUS need for a subway to the westside.

[Darrell Clarke]

Maps and descriptions of the Final Four route alternatives are posted at http://lavisions.blogspot.com/2008/05/wilshire-subway-planning.html .

[kylej]

Try leaving Santa Monica at 5:30 and tell me it's not a major commuting destination.

[Dan Wentzel]

"As nice as the phrase "Subway to the Sea" may sound, I'm not convinced that it would be terribly useful. Downtown Santa Monica is not a major commuting destination (compared to Century City, for example),"

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Au Contraire. The traffic from Santa Monica going to Century City can be quite intense.

There is no more "useful" project in consideration than the Purple Line extension. It will carry people in both directions to/from the Westside.

A Sepulveda project from LAX up to Van Nuys Metrolink certainly is a needed companion to this line.

[Larry Scholnick]

As nice as the phrase "Subway to the Sea" may sound, I'm not convinced that it would be terribly useful. Downtown Santa Monica is not a major commuting destination (compared to Century City, for example), and it's not a great place for future lines to connect to - there obviously can't be another line going farther west (into the ocean) and I can't imagine where they would ever put a line to Malibu. The only other places worth connecting to are to the southeast - Venice, Marina Del Rey, Westchester, LAX, and the South Bay.

[Dan Wentzel]

I fully support Alternative 11 which is the pic you showed above.

We need BOTH alignments.

Here's an excerpt from a recent article in the WeHo News:
wehonews.com/z/wehonews/archive/page.php?articleID=2298

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"To their own surprise, the proposed subway expansion makes better sense to planners when a Santa Monica Boulevard route is added to the traditionally better-preferred Wilshire Boulevard route.

A crowd of 75 attendees listened in rapture while Long Range Transportation planners explained how a Santa Monica spur running from the current Hollywood/Highland Red Line Station hooking up with a Wilshire line south of West Hollywood would not only increase ridership significantly, but also provides enough in travel time improvements to give Congress reason to fund the subway expansion.

'What was surprising to us,' David Mieger, project manager said, 'is that adding Santa Monica Boulevard to the Wilshire route, in compliment to one another, it works [from a feasibility, cost and ridership perspective].'