Ventura Boulevard subway. Yes, subway.

Here's the latest subway dream for L.A.: a Ventura Boulevard route. This dream involves a subway that moves west along Ventura, then up Topanga Canyon Boulevard, then back east to Burbank:

A lotta new development. A lotta new residents. A lotta new traffic congestion. We see the mayor and City Council members clamoring for the mic for the big announcement. But what is being done now to plan for the congestion to come? Are there any plans at all? One of the best plans out there is gaining traction. It’s called Get L.A. Moving, and it’s exactly what L.A. needs: a master plan for a comprehensive Los Angeles Rail Network. As far as the Valley goes, one possibility would be an extension of the current Red Line subway under Ventura Boulevard to Warner Center, looping North through Canoga Park to the Van Nuys Airport, Bob Hope Airport, Burbank and back to Universal City.

Comments

[Transit Planner]

Of course anything going to Glendale would run up Brand. Sorry for not being clear in my previous post.

[m]

Although I agree having a train down the middle of a freeway sucks (due to the sound [ I used to think I was going crazy when I heard loud booming voices in the evenings and nights until I realized I was hearing the police officers chasing people on the freeway and yelling at them through their sound systems as they drove by on the 101 freeway, right behind my apartment building], the heat from the cars and concrete, the grossness due to pollutants, dirt and fine tire-powder), there ARE things very close to freeways. The red line universal city station is right next to the freeway and has been convienent for me because my new and old apartment buildings are very close to the freeway. Unfortunatly because of the lack of space condos, apartment buildings, stores, work destinations, theaters, etc. have inched closer and closer to the freeways and freeways have inched closer and closer (or completely taken over) homes. This can't be ignored. Going on 134 from my home to work is the most direct route that exists, but I can't use any of the buses that utilize this route, so I must go out of my way by going from Universal City to downtown and then back up to Pasadena (20-40 min by car vs. 70min minimum by train).

[darrin]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Movielocke!
You have expressed eloquently what I have been saying for YEARS. Putting light rail in the middle of a freeway is a great idea on paper, a HORRIBLE idea in real life!
The noise is insanely loud. I challenge anyone to wait on the Gold Line rail platform along the 210 for 1/2 hour during rush hour- they will be deaf! To make it even worse, when the train is waiting there for 10+ minutes, the doors onthe train are open, allowing the noise and pollution to blast you to kingdom come.

And his other point is right on the mark too... a freeway is NOT a destination, but a major artery. No one wants to walk to a freeway. They aren't designed for pedestrians, in any way, shape or form. Who in their right mind would put a destination (mall, shopping center, plaza, theatre, school, condo complex) right next to a freeway, with all the noise, traffic and fumes? No one! That's why they are at least a few blocks away, if not miles. And who wants to walk a few miles to get to a station? Very few.

Follow the European model, for something that makes sense. Large and efficient freeways between major cities, large boulevards in the cities, that host pedestrian lanes (sidewalks), bike lanes, trolley (streetcar) lanes and traffic lanes. It works great! Visit most modern European cities for an example.

Anyone is free to write to me directly at bigbaddms@yahoo.com if they want to share thoughts (but not flames please!)

[darrin]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Movielocke!
You have expressed eloquently what I have been saying for YEARS. Putting light rail in the middle of a freeway is a great idea on paper, a HORRIBLE idea in real life!
The noise is insanely loud. I challenge anyone to wait on the Gold Line rail platform along the 210 for 1/2 hour during rush hour- they will be deaf! To make it even worse, when the train is waiting there for 10+ minutes, the doors onthe train are open, allowing the noise and pollution to blast you to kingdom come.

And his other point is right on the mark too... a freeway is NOT a destination, but a major artery. No one wants to walk to a freeway. They aren't designed for pedestrians, in any way, shape or form. Who in their right mind would put a destination (mall, shopping center, plaza, theatre, school, condo complex) right next to a freeway, with all the noise, traffic and fumes? No one! That's why they are at least a few blocks away, if not miles. And who wants to walk a few miles to get to a station? Very few.

Follow the European model, for something that makes sense. Large and efficient freeways between major cities, large boulevards in the cities, that host pedestrian lanes (sidewalks), bike lanes, trolley (streetcar) lanes and traffic lanes. It works great! Visit most modern European cities for an example.

Anyone is free to write to me directly at bigbaddms@yahoo.com if they want to share thoughts (but not flames please!)

[darrin]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Movielocke!
You have expressed eloquently what I have been saying for YEARS. Putting light rail in the middle of a freeway is a great idea on paper, a HORRIBLE idea in real life!
The noise is insanely loud. I challenge anyone to wait on the Gold Line rail platform along the 210 for 1/2 hour during rush hour- they will be deaf! To make it even worse, when the train is waiting there for 10+ minutes, the doors onthe train are open, allowing the noise and pollution to blast you to kingdom come.

And his other point is right on the mark too... a freeway is NOT a destination, but a major artery. No one wants to walk to a freeway. They aren't designed for pedestrians, in any way, shape or form. Who in their right mind would put a destination (mall, shopping center, plaza, theatre, school, condo complex) right next to a freeway, with all the noise, traffic and fumes? No one! That's why they are at least a few blocks away, if not miles. And who wants to walk a few miles to get to a station? Very few.

Follow the European model, for something that makes sense. Large and efficient freeways between major cities, large boulevards in the cities, that host pedestrian lanes (sidewalks), bike lanes, trolley (streetcar) lanes and traffic lanes. It works great! Visit most modern European cities for an example.

Anyone is free to write to me directly at bigbaddms@yahoo.com if they want to share thoughts (but not flames please!)

[darrin]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Movielocke!
You have expressed eloquently what I have been saying for YEARS. Putting light rail in the middle of a freeway is a great idea on paper, a HORRIBLE idea in real life!
The noise is insanely loud. I challenge anyone to wait on the Gold Line rail platform along the 210 for 1/2 hour during rush hour- they will be deaf! To make it even worse, when the train is waiting there for 10+ minutes, the doors onthe train are open, allowing the noise and pollution to blast you to kingdom come.

And his other point is right on the mark too... a freeway is NOT a destination, but a major artery. No one wants to walk to a freeway. They aren't designed for pedestrians, in any way, shape or form. Who in their right mind would put a destination (mall, shopping center, plaza, theatre, school, condo complex) right next to a freeway, with all the noise, traffic and fumes? No one! That's why they are at least a few blocks away, if not miles. And who wants to walk a few miles to get to a station? Very few.

Follow the European model, for something that makes sense. Large and efficient freeways between major cities, large boulevards in the cities, that host pedestrian lanes (sidewalks), bike lanes, trolley (streetcar) lanes and traffic lanes. It works great! Visit most modern European cities for an example.

Anyone is free to write to me directly at bigbaddms@yahoo.com if they want to share thoughts (but not flames please!)

[Robb Briggs]

"Glendale/Burbank could be served by a Gold Line extension up San Fernando Rd."

Unfortunately, though, Brand Blvd makes much more sense from a ridership perspective: much higher population and business density. San Fernando is too out-of-the-way for any Glendale office workers and most residents to use.

[movielocke]

Whoops, I meant 105, not 101.

But can anyone imagine how useless the Redline would be if it ran in the middle of the 101 instead? a big part of the success of the redline is Hollywood Highland and Hollywood and Vine. It's a rail line that goes to destinations, if it were in the middle of the freeway, no one would use it. We need more rail like the redline and less like the the expo line and greenline. The expo line will be useful, but until it gets to Santa Monica it's not reaching its full potential.

[j]

Well, almost all of the LA area's increase in growth over the last 10 years comes from immigrants and their children. So, keep them coming and bog us down in traffic, failed scholls and publichealth, with an even bigger environmental footprint.

[Kate]

I really like the idea for the Ventura Blvd. line...the traffic there is crazy most of the time and as I live right nearby Ventura Blvd, I'd be sure to take the train in if it were there.

I really like what this website is proposing and hope some of it will come to fruition soon. I especially like the lines for the Sunset Blvd. area of Hollywood -- also another VERY congested area of traffic at any time of the day!

[Transit Planner]

Wilshire Blvd., Ventura Blvd. and the El Monte Busway/I-10/Pomona/Ontario Airport are logical heavy rail extensions. CSUN and Glendale/Burbank are not.

CSUN would be better served by frequent Metrolink service (like O.C. is planning) and a "BRT Shuttle" (like CSU Sacramento is planning).

Glendale/Burbank could be served by a Gold Line extension up San Fernando Rd., or the revivial of the former P.E. Hollywood Subway/Glendale/Burbank Line which would also serve Echo Park.

[movielocke]

"This is off-topic, but why can't they just slap a rail line down the center (or alongside) every freeway? If they can find ways to make more lanes (as with parts of the 405), why can they do the same for rail?"

Because freeways are not destinations, they don't go anywhere, they're just arteries that feed into destinations, and usually they're positioned quite a ways away from destinations. If rail is to be successful it has to go to destinations, it can't be a half mile away from where you want to be, and in the middle of a freeway. Would anyone want to walk or bus from Wilshire/Westwood to Wilshire/405 or vice versa? Not really. I don't even like walking from the Lake/210 Stop of the goldline to Colorado Blvd. It's an annoying pain in the ass to have to do that. There's nothing I need or want to do ON the freeway, everything is a good 10-15 minute walk from the freeway stop.

What's more, it seriously is a wretched experience to have to wait for a train on the greenline or on the part of the goldline on the 210. It is Unbelievably loud, reeks of exhaust, and just waiting wears you down more than any other stop, and because it's so horrendous to wait, it makes the waiting time for the train seem twice as long as it actually is. People dread having to get on a train in the middle of the freeway; I pay the 10$/day parking rates at LAX for weekend or holiday trips out of town just to avoid having to ride the greenline. it's worth it to me to not have to experience that misery of waiting for a train in the middle of the 101. I can only imagine that train in the middle of the 405 would be 10 or 100 times worse an experience.

Rail in LA will not be successful if it's like riding a bus--largely a miserable and degrading experience.

[JS]

@Jeff: Have you ever ridden the Green Line....that is the worst rail experience...try standing out there while cars whoosh by, with no protection from noise, wind, exhaust, etc. Terrible idea and I hope they don't replicate it.

[Kymberleigh Richards]

"Get L.A. Moving" is the brainchild of one of the people who is presently involved in the filing with the Public Utilities Commission on grade separating the Expo Line which could, if they get their way, halt construction of it.

Why would you trust a rail plan by someone who is trying to halt another rail project?

And, by the way, the Red Line should be extended north to Bob Hope Airport and Sylmar. The best east-west rail option at this point in time would be to convert the Orange Line busway; it is a proven ridership draw and it connects to the north-south bus service closer to the center of the Valley, thus making overall travel time shorter for more people.

[JK]

the valley will never get improvements like a subway. we all know it's true.

[Jeff]

OK, I see it now, the FADE IN blog's map is different (why?) from the Get LA Moving's map. I like Get LA's map, it seems to make more sense and includes CSUN, albeit in two rail lines.

This is off-topic, but why can't they just slap a rail line down the center (or alongside) every freeway? If they can find ways to make more lanes (as with parts of the 405), why can they do the same for rail?

Anyone have an answer for this? Thx.

[Ken Alpern]

The Ventura Blvd. Subway is the next big project, other than figuring out a rail alternative for the 405 freeway, that the Valley should focus on once the Busway project is completed.

[JS]

actually....I should correct myself, on Get LA Moving's website, there is a route that hits Cal State Northridge...this article only talks about one route.

[JS]

Maybe slashing across the valley from Chatsworth to Burbank is cost prohibitive...just a thought.

But I love the overall subway map on the Get LA Moving site....the dreams of what could be.....

[Cahwyguy - Daniel]

Jeff:

Note that in the Get Moving proposal, the Lime line stops at CSUN. It pretty much goes across the valley along Nordhoff.

[Manuel]

I agree with Jeff. Don’t leave out CSUN, plus the business center on Corbin and Plummer. However, with Washington Mutual (@$$ ho!%$) relocating all those jobs I don’t think there will be a business center left. But there is potential for more, (every one at once) CONDOS!

[sam i am]

While your at it please insist.

any future rail lines should be

one modality (less transfers)

grade separated ( can go 60 to 70 mph safely)

and double tracked in each direction (able to run limited stop express line at same time as normal route)

[John M.]

I like the idea of being able to travel from Bob Hope Burbank Airport to LAX on a single rail line, stopping no doubt at Union Station to connect with Gold, Red, and Purple Lines and Metrolink. I'll leave it to the gearheads to figure out how it's possible - though I know there's a stub-end of trackage pointing to LAX on the Green Line.

I also can't figure out why there have to be stations at Burbank Airport and Burbank (main line). I know the trains go in different directions, but it means that it's impossible to take the good service we now have in a northerly direction to serve both stations.

[Sheryl]

Anyone interested in Metro's LONG TERM PLANNING should find a way to attend the "Special Board Meeting – Long Range Plan Workshop" next Thursday, August 16 at 9 am in the Gateway Plaza boardroom.

Whether they allow public comment or not--they're supposed to, but this IS Metro, after all--this is the time to find out exactly what they think they're going to be up to over the next 25 years whether the public agrees with it or not.

The BRU will be there, screaming that busses are the solution to all mankind's ills, so if you can possibly take a morning off to go and INSIST that LA County and Metro have a responsibility to provide for county wide rail service, PLEASE DO. I'm certainly going to talk to MY boss.

[jeff]

Why the omission of Cal State Northridge, a 30,000 student school plus staff, faculty, etc.?

What makes Sherman Way the preferred route over say, Roscoe, which has quite a few hospitals along it?

And finally, perhaps this subway/rail line could use the rail right of way that slashes diagonally across the valley from Chatsworth to Burbank (see the Googlemap link in the linked story).