Not taking transit

Do residents use transit in transit-oriented developments? There are strong indications that most don't, according to a Times review by Sharon Bernstein and Francisco Vara-Orta. Consider:

The Times decided to examine driving habits at four apartment and condominium complexes that have already been built at or near transit stations in South Pasadena, North Hollywood, Pasadena and Hollywood. Reporters spent two months interviewing residents, counting cars going out of and into the buildings and counting pedestrians walking from the projects to the nearby train stations. The reporting showed that only a small fraction of residents shunned their cars during morning rush hour. Most people said that even though they lived close to transit stations, the trains weren't convenient enough, taking too long to arrive at destinations and lacking stops near their workplaces. Many complained that they didn't feel comfortable riding the MTA's crowded, often slow-moving buses from transit terminals to their jobs. Moreover, the attraction of shops and cafes that are often built into developments at transit stations can actually draw more cars to neighborhoods, putting an additional traffic burden on areas that had been promised relief.

Comments

[Karen]

"Karen will eventually take the train or bus and learn it is a whole new world!"

I did take the train, for almost two years. It took all four trains and almost two hours to get to work, and eliminated everything in my life beyond my job. I was vomited on, groped, yelled at, and mugged at knifepoint. I caught colds on a monthly basis, was subjected daily to music played at a volume not condusive to continued hearing, and regularly stranded. A whole new world indeed.

"[Trains] may not be cheap to build, but they're easy to maintain, always on-time and very scalable."

Easy to maintain and always on time? Not even close, in my experience.
Percentage I was on time to work when taking the trains: <70%
Percentage of times I had to skip the second half of an event because the trains don't run after midnight: 100%
Number of times I was stranded after a night in Hollywood, even though I left early, because the Red Line train was late, making me miss the last Gold Line train: 4
Number of times I had to find an alternate way to work because it had rained and a landslide closed the tracks: 3
Number of times I had to ask a co-worker for a ride home from work because I wasn't willing to risk being stranded in Compton at 11pm hoping that the Blue Line would show up: 2
Number of times my photograph was above the fold on the front page of the LATimes when the Red Line went down AGAIN: 1

"Karen's simple honesty should be applauded. She will only learn the virtues of public transportation when she is treated, by public policy, as society now treats the committed smoker: ban them, punish them, raise the taxes on the gas price and the price of the car. Paint them as dismal losers in the press and commercials."

The impression I'm getting is that I am an example of what's wrong with traffic in Los Angeles, because I'm willing to be honest and realistic about my life.

But I work 10 miles from home. I make at most one round trip a day. All my stops are on my way home: my skating AND swimming locations are one exit from work on the freeway in the direction of my house, and centrally located to the people I skate and swim with. My doctor, dentist, gym, banks, and insurance company are within a block of each other. My groceries, coffee, video store, and drug store are all in a mini-mall a mile away, again in the direction of my home. Even with multiple stops, I drive less than 25 miles a day. I never sit in traffic, idling away gas. I fill my 10-gallon tank less than once a week. This is not luck, it is a result of choices I make in regards to my job, shopping, and home locations. At more than 30 mpg, an increase in gas prices would not impact my driving habits, though I imagine it would make a difference to people who regularly commute 50 miles in each direction, or who get 10 miles to the gallon. $8 a gallon? Bring it on!

Maybe it sounds like a simple solution to raise the price of driving until it's not affordable for most people to drive. Great idea! I'd certainly vote for it, even though I'm not well-to-do by any means. But then people will start complaining about the "transportation gap", our next mayoral candidate will make campaign promises to do something about gas prices in Los Angeles, and the number of people driving without registration and/or insurance will increase dramatically. The MTA will raise the price of riding to accomodate those increased costs, and the uproar over the most recent price increase would be a whisper compared to the heart-clutching outrage over the cost to ride transit if any of those transportation costs are passed on to the riders.

There are no easy answers - I think JS was closest to it. To get back to the point of the original article, if they want a certain demographic riding public transit then they have to cater to that demographic - where they want to go, when they want to do it, and what they will do when they get there - and not just pile an apartment building on top of a train station and call it done. It seems to me that the people in charge of figuring out how to get people onto transit are ignoring some basic truths about Los Angeles.

[Jeremy R]

"It is the simple fact that most people here have never been exposed to real, efficient transportation that makes them wary of it."

Most of the well to do Angelenos are the biggest detractors of mass transit. I am sure most of them have been to NYC, Chicago and SF. I am sure a large number have been to Europe and Asia as well.

For some reason, they have seen real mass transit and simply dont like it. ???

[Art Marriott]

I live in Seattle, and when I drive I'm plagued by the thought of how absurd it is to be getting around in a two-tun metal box, interacting with a million or so other idiots in two-ton boxes. In LA you have agout 30 million idiots in 30 million boxes, and it has to be only by Divine Providence that every rush hour doesn't devolve into massive slaughter.

To get people out of their own personal boxes, it's necessary to entice them to join their neighbors in bigger boxes that are faster and more pleasant to ride in. In this redard subways are at a disadvantage because, face it, the scenery ain't very exciting. With much renewal and refurbishment in some areas, and with clean and transparent air (compared to half a century ago) a lot of Los Angeles is actually rather pleasant to look at. So, not only is elevated or surface transit (the later with exclusive right-of-way) less expensive than a subway, it has eye appeal for its users. Televisions blaring advertisements? Who thought that up? Show "in-flight movies" like the first class Mexican buses do. You really want to get people to jump on board? Serve cocktails!

[Chuck]

That is genious, let all go and buy a motorcycle!
Posted by: SackD | July 07, 2007 at 09:38 AM

It's genius, something you obviously are not familiar with. Why not learn and ride a motorcycle? I realize that some people should not be on them, but why this attitude towards motorcycles? We are one less car sitting in traffic with you, unless you would like more cars in traffic with you?

think about it. I spend less - gas, time, insurance, repairs, everything.

Just have to watch out for people in their cars doing everything while they try to drive - eating, typing, make-up, reading, drinking, smoking -everything but watching the road.

[Scott Baron]

While it is true that Los Angeles has a deplorable public transportation system, it was not always the case. From 1901-1961 we had the Red Car and Yellow Car train lines connecting cities in Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside and San Bernardino counties. While some lines were replaced by busses for economic reasons, one cannot solely blame the people of Los Angeles the demise of one of the greatest public transportation systems in the country.

General Motors, Standard Oil, Firestone tires and several other formed a front company, “National City Lines”, with the sole purpose of buying rail & streetcar lines and shutting them down, replacing them with busses. In 20 years, they bought out more than 100 electric streetcar systems in 45 cites and replaced them with busses.

In 1990 there was a debate in LA as to what the new public transportation would be built. A Monorail system at $28 million a mile, light rail at closer to $50 million a mile, or subway at $340 million a mile. Car and oil companies lobbied and the results can be seen with our underwhelming (and quite foolish) subway and light rail system. This was nearly 20 years ago and had the monorail option been chosen, we would have had a comprehensive and safe (elevated from traffic) system serving our entire city within only a decade. Wiki it, Google it, but the fact remains, LA could once was and could have been again a great public transportation city, but corporate greed stopped us cold in our tracks. Oh yeah, GM was eventually convicted of violating the Sherman Anti-Trust act and was fined a whopping $5,000.

[JS]

I'm quite lucky to have lived in several major metro areas including NYC, Sydney and London and I've also worked as a transportation planner and LA can not be held to the same standard as these other cities that were built around subways or rail oriented development. The city was built around cars but that doesn't mean it can't be rehabilitated from this sorry state.

Part of it is perception of the people that live here. I can remember the looks I got when I went for an interview and told the office manager, who asked if I found parking alright, that I didn't drive, instead I caught the DASH from Hollywood to the office location. It was as if I was some sort of urban pioneer. She had no clue that these buses existed.

For those that propose building the trams/trains along the freeway, I would suggest riding the green line from time to time. I can not think of a more unpleasant public transportation experience. And you want to replicate this? That'll get people riding real quick.

What LA needs is a sound transportation strategy. Not one that includes only cars or only trains or only buses. Improvements need to be made on a massive scale. Things such as:

Proper signal timing. LA is built on a grid much like Manhattan so there isn't any reason why we can't have a similar signal timing. This includes a little something called LAG TIME...you know, that extra few seconds of all red so that those cars that are waiting to clear the intersection can go without forcing oncoming traffic to wait while they turn...any cars turning after that need to be ticketed and severely...so another thing that's needed is ENFORCEMENT. There's plenty of cops to enforce parking restrictions, but the only time I see any of them dealing with traffic is when a signal gets knocked out and they're directing it.

Increasing car pool lanes. Rather than one lane with 2 or more occupants, there needs to be two car pool lanes. One for 2 or more occupants and one for 3 or more occupants and they need to be in effect at all times. If you want to drive alone, we've got wide enough highways that you can share the other lanes with the rest of those selfish people. And if you think you'll get away with avoiding highways, you'll be sharing the surface roads....

As for mass transit, subways are not the only answer that's out there. It's just too expensive and takes too long to build. Yes it would be great to have an extensive underground rail system like Paris, but it's not going to happen.

What can happen is adding/extending a subway line or two (along with adding more stations to the existing lines), mixing that with light/rail for those boulevards that can accommodate it (I'm thinking Wilshire, San Vicente, La Cienega and La Brea as a start...there's plenty of room for more) and bus only lanes for those boulevards that can't accommodate it.

As for the buses, I ride them all the time and I hate them. They are never on time (if they come at all) and they're overcrowded (a sign that people want to ride them) with seats that are too small, they break down too often and if you're not lucky enough to own an mp3 player or the like, you get bombarded with commercials for the length of your trip by transitv.

The buses need to be cleaned up, repaired properly and if we must have a television, it should just show news headlines with no sound...There should be automated signage in place at each bus stop to tell you when the next bus is coming so people aren't baking in the sun for a bus that won't be there for another 30 minutes. This is in place all over Paris and London, across the entire city. I've heard they have this around Rodeo/Wilshire, but I haven't seen it.

I've been lucky enough to be able to get by without a car here, but believe me, there are days when I reconsider that....I now work downtown and can catch the red line and get to work in 10 minutes....so I can put it off for now. I'm one of the lucky ones.

[Stephen]

I think that everyone is forgetting LA's past. We used to have an excellent public transportation system that went all the way into the valley. The abandoned rails that could be found in San Fernando Valley, and the route that the Metro Red Line uses used to be traversed by cable cars much like San Francisco. The difference is that the automobile industry coerced the politicians in the past to fore go public transit for our current freeway system, thus sparking the what is the largest market for detroit. I'm not saying that we should use that as a crutch for ignoring our public transit needs, but it is important to note that it isn't just some LA culture of snobbery and ignorance. We are also one of the most decentralized cities in the country too...

[Mary Ellen]

I have lived in several cities/states and just want to let viewers here know that the rest of the counry does not have the same materialistic, self-centered, unprogressive attitude that exists in Southern California - go live in the San Francisco Bay area and you will see a completely different attitude about everything including mass transit.
The rest of the country does not run on L.A. time; this is probably the most gross evidence of the have and have-nots. Unfortunately many who live here can't leave so they are stuck with this culture and mentality.
Living here for a short time reinforces exactly what one DOES NOT DESIRE in a liveable city.

[Giselle]

"I have a hard time believing that you carried your golf bag around New York, but perhaps I'm wrong."

I actually carried a surfboard in Manhattan, to Brooklyn [a subway transfer] then to Queens [another subway transfer] so yes, it is possible to carry sports equiptment without a vehicle.
Yes, a car is handy but as another poster said, so is paying $76/month for ALL your transportation. I drive a small Japanese car and pay well over that in GAS alone each month in CA.
If each public transport averse Angelino would dwell in a place with REAL public transport for any length of time, there would be no arguement here about its merits.
It is the simple fact that most people here have never been exposed to real, efficient transportation that makes them wary of it.

[Ernie]

We would have a nice Red Line system to Santa Monica already if it wasn't for westside NIMBYism

[oc chica]

Jonathan, try metrolinktrains.com. SoCal's Metrolink info IS online. Chill out and hope your stay goes better...

[Jonathan]

Your public transport system is bull***t because your city has been designed from the ground up around cars. Even now it seems little is being done to redress this.

I'm a visitor from Sydney, staying with relatives in Thousand Oaks. I know there's a train nearby that goes through LA because I caught it to get here from San Diego. Tomorrow I want to go to Malibu to see the Getty Villa. But when I go online can I find a train timetable to get me anywhere near there? No sir. I thought my home town of Sydney has lousy public transport but by comparison it's great. I can type two Sydney suburbs and the word "timetable" into Google and I'm on my way. Try that for LA - no way!

[Gli Angeli]

They should just start building monorails/trams now, not next month, not next year. As one poster mentioned, build them straight up and down the major freeways. Leave commuter lanes but "sacrifice" a regular lane or two. We pay plenty of taxes, use that money to make LA the standard for megalopolis public transport and being green. The technology and know how we'll gain will pay back the money spent many times over. I'd only drive my car on the weekends to go out of town (when necessary) if there was a good transit system. We need a good dictator in LA for about 5-10 years. :}

[Railer]

Just have a look at Paris, London, Munich, Frankfurt to name a few cities. Use the carpool lanes and the center dividers on all the Blvds and Aves for railways and we will have a great net of public transportation which can be expanded.

[Jack]

Easy solution for more trains. Replace all car pool lanes with trains. If a train ran straight down the center of the 405 from the Valley to Long Beach, the 405 would free right up. Same goes for the 10 from downtown out to Santa Monica. Forget about the 500 year car pool lane project on the 405 and build a train instead.

[Miles]

I am astounded at how much of disaster LA's transit planning has become. Many of you say that it is not an option because your job is nowhere near a transit station. Its totally reasonable that you wouldn't use the transit in place. But lets think about how a city develops. When the public uses the public transit availible, jobs will come to the people. Businesses can pay employees less when their employees don't have to spend $1000 per month on car, gas and insurance. Buses will never be the answer, trains are the way to go. They may not be cheap to build, but they're easy to maintain, always on-time and very scalable.

Our politicians need to have the guts to insist that the trains get placed in the most convienent places. That means extending the red line to UCLA and out to Santa Monica, and making easy connections to Burbank airport, and most importantly, creating a loop that circles the city of LA, servicing as much of the population as possible. Get on this people!!!

This city does have an undeniable car-culture, and its absolutely DISGUSTING.

[George Goode]

Karen's simple honesty should be applauded. She will only learn the virtues of public transportation when she is treated, by public policy, as society now treats the committed smoker: ban them, punish them, raise the taxes on the gas price and the price of the car. Paint them as dismal losers in the press and commercials. Karen will eventually take the train or bus and learn it is a whole new world!

[E. Soto]

GGold123, your bashing public transportation for not accomodating your ridiculous 35-40 mile commute from Monterey Park to Chatsworth? Your part of the traffic problem, folks living 50 miles away from their job. Do us all a favor, either move to the Valley or reconsider your job move. Why dont folks consider their "killer commute" when looking for a job, Jesus its only common sense.

[Sabrina]

The reasons L.A. mass transit doesn't work is because most people there don't try to make it work...so they dig in their heels when they are expected to give up their "lifestyles." Last April, I was there in L.A. and traveled to Malibu from Hollywood (25 miles) using mass transit, and when people found out you would've thought I had just went overland on the Oregon trail or something. No, it's not simple, it's not always "convenient" but it does take careful planning...and it is an investment into a cleaner future. Here's an idea: try keeping a transportation diary for a week, just like some people do with dieting. You'll be surprised to see how many trips you made with your car that you could've used mass transit, biked or even walked. Cutting back on car use is the same as dieting, not easy but well worth the results.

[Richard Ray Harris]

Try it Americans...
Try the Red line on say, Sunday if that's your day off, go to Olvera Street and Chinatown. It is fun and cheaper than what you'd pay for parking and gas.

[Robert]

Karen and others forget the income gap that is a growing in Los Angeles and other large U.S. cities. There are perhaps even a majority of families with only one car but several commuters who need to go to different locations on different schedules. Others have no car at all. L.A.'s extensive tranist system is not just a smart idea for reducing traffic congestion and reducing smog, but is fundamntally the primary means for many people getting to jobs and schools. Many of the comments about L.A. traffic seem to me to be self-centered, arrogant, and un-knowing.

[Steve Keats]

I have long been an advocate, and user of mass transit, but I have, regrettably, come to believe that it will for most, due to its inflexibility and cost remain the option of last resort for most. The glee I experienced riding the maglev train from Pudong airport to central Shanghai in China was tempered both by being nearly crushed while riding the subway there during rush hour, and by the concerns of residents there who felt that the one billion dollar plus budget for the maglev could have been better spent helping the poor. In Los Angeles the mass transit experience remains intolerable for most because of overcrowding and the lack of political will to enforce the law to a sufficient degree to make riders feel safe and comfortable. I have come to believe that the automobile will be replaced not by massively expensive rail lines, but by an evolved, efficient individual transport capsule powered by electricity and driven robotically. Bad drivers, not "accidents" kill more than 40,000 annually and maim hundreds of thousands more. Before you condemn that notion remember that the plane you are flying on to the next vacation hotspot is piloted for the majority of the flight by a cousin of the robot that will be driving you to work in thirty years.

[Steve Keats]

I have long been an advocate, and user of mass transit, but I have, regrettably, come to believe that it will for most, due to its inflexibility and cost remain the option of last resort for most. The glee I experienced riding the maglev train from Pudong airport to central Shanghai in China was tempered both by being nearly crushed while riding the subway there during rush hour, and by the concerns of residents there who felt that the one billion dollar plus budget for the maglev could have been better spent helping the poor. In Los Angeles the mass transit experience remains intolerable for most because of overcrowding and the lack of political will to enforce the law to a sufficient degree to make riders feel safe and comfortable. I have come to believe that the automobile will be replaced not by massively expensive rail lines, but by an evolved, efficient individual transport capsule powered by electricity and driven robotically. Bad drivers, not "accidents" kill more than 40,000 annually and maim hundreds of thousands more. Before you condemn that notion remember that the plane you are flying on to the next vacation hotspot is piloted for the majority of the flight by a cousin of the robot that will be driving you to work in thirty years.

[Geoff]

I live in Queensland Australia. We have exactly the same problems here. I can take 1hour to drive to work or 2hours to take public transport, that has a limited schedule. When you work 12 to 14 hours a day, the last thing you want to do is spend another 2hrs a day getting to and from work. I don't see my daughter in the morning and I only see her at night if I get home between 7:30 and 8:00pm.

[Dean Ross]

Maybe somebody out there can help me out on the logic of this. Was at a party recently and was listening to a clown bragging about his new Hummer gas hog. A couple dozen breaths into his diatribe, he mentioned his new hse. re-model is going to have a six car garage. Just what we need, more cars on the road. Your right Karen, we live in a car culture town, but were not moving very fast anymore. I don't even want to own a car anymore but I do. Public trans. can be great here in S.D. and I take it whenever it works 4 me. We are all becomming to many rats in a bottle.