Monorail to the Sea?

There was a time when monorails were the hot ticket in L.A. mass transit circles. But recently, talk of rail and Wilshire Boulevard has focused largely on a subway. Now, there is an interesting website that dreams about running a monorail down Wilshire to the ocean. Details are few (and no price tag), but they have a drawing and a slogan ("Expressway to the Future"):

The new Wilshire Monorail project was conceived by Robert Rosebrock and Roger Ow Gong who were committed to conceptualizing a modern-day alternative to replace LA's existing public transportation system that has failed to adequately mobilize LA's progressive and forward thinking lifestyle. The new Wilshire Monorail plan is both an advanced and realistic alternative to LA's obsolete and stagnated public transit system. Consequently, this plan offers a new transportation infrastructure for LA's 21st century that will quickly and efficiently mobilize both our citizenry and our civic services above and away from street traffic, and not be a major factor of impacting traffic which is what happens with slow moving and cumbersome buses.

Comments

[Blue247]

Is there anyone at the MTA who serves no special interests, innovative enough to consider building rail lines down the center of every freeway in the Southland!? Get rid of carpool lanes, build the lines down the center of the freeways and have clean burning shuttles fan out into the city's core from each stations hub spread out a few miles or so. Building on existing rights of way like this would avoid the traffic nightmares that would surely follow trying to build a monorail down Wilshire or any major boulevard. The only real obstacles would be funding and litigation from the NIMBY's. And just think. If you see a train wizzing by you while sitting in traffic on the 405 or at the four level in downtown, wouldn't that want you to get out of your car and take a train?

[Jonas Nepenthe]

There is no argument here, or rather there shouldn't be one. We have a green line, a blue line, a gold line and a red line that work well , but not well enough for such a huge southern california. What should be done is to continue to add on to this already in place system; that is continue building the red line until it hits the ocean, and green line until it hits the ocean. This alone will alleviate most of the problems with traffic.

[Jon consumer]

14 comments and not a single rail basher. Come on all car advocates. Wake up, this comments section is incomplete without you'll.

[Manuel]

Okay now that we are on the subject of Arial transportation. How about a dam rail line along the 405. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If this line existed not only would we all on the west, valley, south bay and possibly Santa Clarita Valley would be happy, it will increase rider ship on the Orange Line, and soon to come Expo and maybe (I'll keep preying) purple line. I bet all the parking spaces at Sepulveda, Van Nuys, and Reseda stations along the Orange Line would be packed. The number of riders on the O-line would most likely double and maybe triple. So let's get this 405 line above ground on the drawing board. I know that it is possible. I've seen the Arial track that was just built over the 101 fwy for the Gold line to Eastlos. It only takes about a 6 foot in diameter column to hold up the elevated tracks.

[Donald Stanwood]

The Monorail Fetish must be glandular. Has anyone actually paid attention to how an ALWEG-design monorail rides? We're talking rubber tires on a concrete surface. Go to Disneyland or the Las Vegas Strip. Climb aboard, close your eyes and you'll think you're riding a bus.

[Donald Stanwood]

The Monorail Fetish must be glandular. Has anyone actually paid attention to how an ALWEG-design monorail rides? We are talking rubber tires on a concrete surface. Go to Disneyland or the Las Vegas Strip and climb aboard. Close your eyes and you'll think you're riding a bus.

[Shaun]

Subway tunnels subject to earthquakes work fine in Tokyo, Mexico City, San Francisco, and several other cities so I don't think we should be concerned about earthquakes with the technology we have to withstand them. And elevated platforms can collapse in an earthquakes just as tunnels can. If they want an elevated line b/c it's cheaper then fine but just build it as heavy rail. The issue here really isn't to elevate it or not, it's about why would we use a different train system to extend a current transit line that uses a different technology. Elevated lines are nice b/c you get a view out of your window but business owners and residents probably will oppose it. Either way just build a fully grade seperated purple line extension, elevated or underground but just build it.

[Bob Zwolinski]

For cryin’ out loud… We don’t need a 3rd modality.
It would be a training and operations nightmare for the MTA.
We blew our chances for an all-monorail system back in the early 60s.
Let’s stick with the conventional heavy rail and light rail modes that are already in place.

Just try and put an aerial monorail structure down Wilshire through Beverly Hills.
I don’t think you’d get very far.

The Wilshire subway has been studied to death for the past 45 years.
We needed it back in the mid 60s. We desperately need it now!
Let’s allow the Senate to lift the tunneling ban and let’s build the darn thing ASAP before it gets up to $400 million per mile.

[Sheryl]

Oh, please. Just because we STARTED something underground, it has to STAY that way? That's just a completely ludicrous statement.

And subway tunnels, underneath ground that's subject to regular EARTHQUAKES are not a good option.

Metro already HAS plenty of experience with raised platforms, both on the 110 busway and on the Green Line. The elevated section of the Green Line south and west of Aviation Station out to the terminus at Marine/Redondo is a very nice ride, with an appealing perspective of the changing face of the area.

It should not be all that difficult to bring the Purple Line above ground--the Blue Line does it very smoothly, if you hadn't noticed, between Olympic and Pico--and continue up onto an elevated platform that could have it's first top at Rossmore, since the 710 will be terminating at Wilshire/Western station starting in June of this year.

[Yu-Han]

Come on guys, this kooky monorail website has got to be a joke!

[Michael L]

It doesn't make sense to create a monorail down wilshire if we already have a subway partially built. Nothing worse than a mid route transfer. Just look at what it is now, tons of people at western transferring to the buses, same thing at the intersection of the red line and the orange bus route. It needs to be one continuous train all the way to santa monica, anything less is a waste of money. The city already has light rail and heavy rail, why complicate our network even more with a monorail? Not to mention that it is ugly.

[movielocke]

Also, monorail has breakdown problems, it stops the entire line until specialized equipment (crane) can be brought into remove a problem car, with rail you can reroute and slow the overall line, but you don't have to call a halt to the entire transit route for an entire day, which is what happens when a monorail has 'maintenence issues.

Subway is the way to go, and considering the advances in tunneling technology and potential economies of scale, could possibly be cheaper per mile to build in los Angeles than any elevated system (which will be inherently more expensive to build and insure in earthquake prone LA). Plus for a route as long as Wilshire, you want the heavy rail option if at all possible.

Twin small bore tunnels (one for each train, is the way to tunnel for the future, no need to excavate massive single bore tunnels, let's leave 65% of the dirt there and just drill out what need to be taken out.

[Shaun]

The Orange Line should have been a Red Line extension and now people waste at least 10-15 minutes having to tranfer just to continue their journey. Transit has to be CONVENIENT for people to get out of their cars and use it; having a mid-line terminus to switch to another type of system just to continue a trip is ridiculous and will hurt ridership. How about we focus on using what we have, an underground heavy rail line, rather than introducing some monorail b/c it seems "cool".

[Patrick McKinnion]

It's a very interesting proposal, with some benefits I can see. (and, despite the claims by some, Monorails CAN go underground if needed.)

The two major problems I see is:

1) As much as I'm pro-monorail, LA already has an investment in light rail rolling stock. Using a design that would be compatible with existing stock makes sense.

2) The anti-monorail fanatics will scream bloody murder over a US city considering a mode of transportation that has worked well in other countries for close to 100 years now, but can't seem to get over it's "amusement park" reputation in the US.

[Fred Camino (MetroRiderLA)]

Oh come on Bottleneck Blog! This website isn't new, and it's one of the most absurd proposals for Los Angeles transit yet! It's laughable! The existence of "The Wilshire Monorail Project" should automatically write off all monorail people as the looneys they are. The Transit Coalition has actually set up a hilarious parody site called the "Wilshire Monorail Analysis" (http://wilshiremonorail.net/WMhome.htm) that really puts things into perspective. The main problem with "The Wilshire Monorail Project" is that such a stupid idea ("take your car along on your monorail ride so that you can drive to other appointments once the monorail's reached its destination") actually gets press, like this post on this blog! STOP IT!

[Chris Bucka]

Monrail or subway. Either way, we need to make something happen down Wilshire! Though a monorail would have a pretty sweet view.....

[Amir K.]

Sounds like a cool idea, but this wouldn't work for Wilshire. I could see it working pretty well for a street like Sepulveda, just not a street that already has a subway started.

One thing we all need to consider as LA-ocals (yes, I just made that up, whatever!) is that although the subway extension to the ocean may cost $30 billion, but it IS AN INVESTMENT and the benefits it provides would be worth infinitely more than that. It would be ridiculous to think that such a huge investment would pay itself back immediately, otherwise mortgage companies would have all loans be 3 year terms.

The biggest benefit of all is that Wilshire could be developed further as a high density (perhaps an affordable housing area?) corridor west of the UCLA/VA area. Let's not forget the joy of taking the Metro 720, 20 and 21 along with the Big Blue Bus 2 off Wilshire completely and what that'd look like!

Also, as someone that works as a concierge in a great Beverly Hills hotel, I'm surprised just how many people would gladly take a subway around than to drive here. Some didn't even KNOW there was any subways at all here! We could attract more visitors to the city AND provide cheap and efficient transportation for them.

Finally, in case no one here has done so already, I'd like to point out the wonderful opportunity we have here in 2007. By providing a near 24 hour a day Purple Line not only can we take care of those that actually need it to get around, a whole new group of people might use it regularly. As a result, a push can be made to include walking or biking in the transportation mix. So for example, if you live near Pico and Robertson and want to go out on the Promenade, a 10-15 minute walk to the (suppose) Wilshire and Robertson station isn't too bad of a deal. Hey, we all could use the exercise, and we'd have 1 more thing in common with Parisians or New Yorkers.

Just some thoughts...

[Greg Kay]

Los Angeles is about the image. And the image of a monorail sure beats the image of "elevated train." Paste some sexy streamlined fiberglas snouts on the red/purple line trains,tack a big styrofoam faux-concrete "monorail" between the tracks, and then stick it all up in the air after Western and Wilshire - on a twin-cantilevered reinforced concrete platform, like the HOV lane above the 110.... now I think you've got something!

[Peter McFerrin]

Monorail: the failed transit mode that WOULD NOT DIE.

The drawing above is unbelievably deceptive. The support columns necessary to make a single-column monorail structure earthquake-resistant would have to be at least six feet in diameter, and probably ten. There are a few places where ten feet of available right-of-way exist on Wilshire Boulevard--the Miracle Mile, most notably--but not many others.

I'm on record saying that the Purple Line ought to have an elevated section, say between La Brea and San Vicente, for the sake of not having to spend half a billion dollars on methane mitigation. However, monorails are incompatible with the existing Metro light and heavy rail system, have the same or higher per-mile costs as heavy rail (despite their lunatic supporters' repeated statements), and lack routing flexibility due to their inability to go underground.

Leave monorails for theme parks and gadget-obsessed Japanese. Better buses and surgically deployed rail investments, each financed by time-variable congestion pricing, are the real future of urban transportation.