Monorail to the Sea?

There was a time when monorails were the hot ticket in L.A. mass transit circles. But recently, talk of rail and Wilshire Boulevard has focused largely on a subway. Now, there is an interesting website that dreams about running a monorail down Wilshire to the ocean. Details are few (and no price tag), but they have a drawing and a slogan ("Expressway to the Future"):

The new Wilshire Monorail project was conceived by Robert Rosebrock and Roger Ow Gong who were committed to conceptualizing a modern-day alternative to replace LA's existing public transportation system that has failed to adequately mobilize LA's progressive and forward thinking lifestyle. The new Wilshire Monorail plan is both an advanced and realistic alternative to LA's obsolete and stagnated public transit system. Consequently, this plan offers a new transportation infrastructure for LA's 21st century that will quickly and efficiently mobilize both our citizenry and our civic services above and away from street traffic, and not be a major factor of impacting traffic which is what happens with slow moving and cumbersome buses.

Comments

[Tiki]

I'm a big proponent of a monorail system in Los Angeles. Its potentially cheaper, faster to build, and more maneuverable than traditional rail systems. If you think the monorail is crazy or weird, look into it. There are a LOT of advantages over traditional rail systems, not least of which are the lower construction and operating costs.

I'd like to point out that different monorail systems use different types of technologies. MagLev is not the only game in town. It is a newer technology employed by a few rail systems around the world and from what I've seen, can be incur greater costs than light rail in some instances. The traditional monorail basically uses your run-of-the-mill rubber tires to ride along the monorail track. This method is what is employed on the Monorail at Disneyland and public versions of this monorail have been employed in Seattle, Las Vegas, and cities in Asia.

Like I said before - the monorail is cool. Look into it!

[robert joseph]

How about $7 billion, FREE to build a subway/rail system? When you tell the polluticians to stop providing FREE medical care to illegals, that is the amount, over 10 years, that can be invested for the legal residents of Los Angeles. Of course, that $7 billion is just the number the pols ADMIT to spending on illegals....could be much higher. Then take 2-3 million illegals OUT of Los Angeles, and traffic would look like the 1970s. Then, you would save at least $300 a year on car insurance, that premium you pay for illegal uninsured drives driving gross polluters. Gas prices would drop without the 2-3 million illegals buying gas. I would not say the illegals don't work hard, and deserve a MUCH BETTER deal...but the corporations and their political hand puppets should be held accountable with enormous fines which are NOT tax deductible.

Just for a real minute, think of the benefits to the above.

[Sam]

Get real this will never happen like every other mass transit proprosal for Amercia. Why don't the politicians address the core issues:

Too many people-enforce immigration laws and arresst deport all illegals. This is alone would decrease the population in SoCal by as much as third

Stop the couumute from hell-Incentivise employers to have workers work where they want remotely, tax credits, pay them whatever it takes.

Address the root cause, a monorail is just a band aid.

[John]

I believe that a lot of our traffic problems can be solved simply by reconfiguration. This comes in a mixture of one-way streets, parking bans, limited left turns, and synchronized lights. How come Wilshire can't be Westbound and Olympic be Eastbound? Can you imagine how quick a six lane expressway would be?!

[Stephen Le]

I'm flabbergasted at the traffic situation in Los Angeles. I've lived and traveled in big cities around the world, and never have I seen such spectacular collective inaction outside of the Third World. Even Saigon moves at a faster pace! I used to do my altruistic bit by cycling from La Cienega to UCLA every day, which was fine until I got to Wilshire between Santa Monica and Comstock - then I had to peddle at the edge of the shoulder-less road and hope I didn't get flattened by an SUV hurtling by.

I understand that it would be tremendously expensive to build a monorail down Wilshire, or subway, or whatever. I come from Ottawa, Canada, where we faced a similar problem. Everyone in Ottawa agreed that it was absolutely necessary to build mass transit to the downtown core, and the idea of rail and subway periodically came up, but no one had the political acumen or guts to see it through. Eventually we settled for a dedicated bus lane that loops alongside the main freeway. It gets the job done, is a relatively cheap fix, and bikes can be accommodated. If and when the time comes, the bus lanes can be converted to a subway line. Since the buses in LA have to creep torpidly alongside the rest of the traffic, it's no wonder people prefer to use their cars! The dedicated bus lanes in LA tend to be mostly a joke. I marvel at the paradox of Los Angeles! I suppose if you're driving a Jaguar, getting into a bus packed full of ordinary folks is a joke... and therein lies the real dilemma of Los Angeles.

[silverfern]

Ray Bradbury has been promoting the idea of a monorail in Los Angeles for...more than 40 years now? And you didn't mention him? ;-p

The link to Bradbury's Opinion piece on the need for a monorail no longer works.

But here it is: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sunday/commentary/la-op-bradbury5feb05,0,6921963.story

And: http://la.curbed.com/archives/2007/05/ray_bradbury_wi.php

And: http://zapatopi.net/blog/?post=200602051550.ray_bradbury_monorailist

[Justin]

LA nativism is kicking in for me.

Our city is special, and building a train along Wilshire will change the face of the city for the worse, a generic "boots to butts" overcrowded gigantic slum.

I am not interested in leaving my car, and yes, the traffic is bad, but this wouldn't be Los Angeles without it. The prospect of an "influx of the masses" to parts of the city that they would not regularly visit does not excite me, and as far as I am concerned, let NY and SF keep their publically subsidized subways (they never pay for themselves once operational) - LA is too cool for them anyhow!

The real problem is that LA is overcrowded. Too many people, not enough space on the roads. Such is life, I guess - and I am sure that there aren't many large, important cities around the world that don't have a problem with high population density.

LET LA LIVE, AND IT WILL LET YOU LIVE!

[Jonathan Stewart]

California and Los Angeles in particular lead the word in technical innovations yet we're surpassed even by many Third World cities when it comes to mass transit. This simply should not be. We have too much to gain not to build a world-class if not world-changing system.

[Tobias Wacker]

FYI, Kuala Lumpur has a mix of systems, including monorail, and it's a mess. You spend hours transferring from underground to over ground. If you mix systems like that, it is nearly impossible to connect them seamlessly. Said that, trains are they only solution to deal with our traffic mess. It doesn't take rocket science to realize that adding car lanes just won't work.

[Robert Zatkin]

People need to begin thinking now about building railroads down the middle of freeways because when petroleum depletion takes hold in the United States there will be no alternative to mass transit. To begin at the beginning see The Oil Drum (www.theoildrum.com).

A Geologist

[robert joseph]

Hong Kong has a great one; Tokyo has many, as do so many worldly cities. Sadly, when both political parties are more interested in foreign wars, legalizing the illegal - with BENEFITS you pay for everyday, but don't personally receive; then Gomer Bush tells you ...'We can't be competitive' with healthcare plans and retirement benefits, but CEO's can and do deserve $100 million+ a year compensation, well...we're just too stupid to get up off our knees and flush the political toilet. How much is be squandered on the insider's plan for downtown (aka the Dead Zone) L.A.??? Who are the players? And who are the payers?

[John Carter]

There are too many people. The problem is not roads, traffic, rail, government, synchronizing signals, one-way boulevards, blah, blah, blah. There are already too many people, and more coming every year. Instead of taxing drivers or subsidizing riders, it would be nice to see both density and population growth addressed, before some quick-and-temporary-fix is proposed and paid for by the taxpayers.

[JS]

Sorry to break it to you, but the maglev is not cheap....that's the reason why there are only a few operational lines in the world. The new Chinese maglev line cost roughly $60,000,000 per mile to build (and that much n capital cost per year): http://www.slate.com/id/2115114/

Not only that, why on earth would anyone build a maglev line to run up Wilshire Blvd? And why have an elevated rail system to begin with. A nice street level light rail would work wonders for this hapless town.

[Peter McFerrin]

Chicago has three heavy rail lines that run in freeway medians within the city of Chicago itself: the O'Hare Branch of the Blue Line, the Congress Branch of the Blue Line, and the Dan Ryan branch of the Red Line. Ridership is high on them because they all go through heavily transit-dependent areas, but they don't attract much discretionary ridership except for airport-bound travelers on the O'Hare Branch. Having ridden all three, as well as the Green and Gold Lines here in Los Angeles, I can tell you that it is an extremely unpleasant experience.

Freeway transitways can work if they're either oriented toward park-and-ride suburban commuters, a la the El Monte Busway and the aforementioned BART and DC Metro lines. They do not attract pedestrian trips, however: witness the abject failure of the Slauson, Manchester, and Rosecrans stations on the I-110 to attract more than a few hundred boardings a day each.

[felix brenner]

In regards to freeway rails:

Train tracks are OLD technology, electric trains running on magnetic "fields of air" (no friction) are safe, simple, cheap, and fast. Put them on raised tracks ABOVE the center of the freeways.

Problem solved. Does anoybody have the guts to do it? We'll see.

More info : http://science.howstuffworks.com/maglev-train.htm

[Jason Saunders]

This is beautiful sunny Southern California. Daylighting the Purple Line might not be such a bad idea. However, I don't think introducing a third technology is the right way to go. It would require more parts, more technicians and maintenance facilities specially designed to accommodate this third technology. However, using the existing Red/Purple Line heavy rail technology is a real possibility. I would like to see a side by side analysis of subterranean vs. elevated heavy rail. What is the cost difference? What are some of the positive and negative attributes of bringing the Purple Line above grade. How many lanes of traffic or parking would have be removed? How would an elevated structure perform in a major earthquake? etc etc. If there is a significant cost saving we might be able to get the "Rail to the Sea" allot faster.

[brooks]

LA needs to think outside the box, so to speak, and investigate the possibilty of a quake resistant elevated airbus; a gondola-type taxi that works on a wire pulley, only massive in size and not too high off the ground.

[Bart Reed]

The Monorail idea has lots of problems. The guy who is proposing it refuses to answer legitimate questions. He just thinks eveyone else is wrong and he has all the answers. He claims that you can build this cheaper, faster and better. Ah, the ingredients of "Magical Thinking".

Here is a website in answer to his fantasy: http://www.wilshiremonorail.net/

The proposal is to carry cars on a monorail. That means the train would have to be 20 feet wide. The launch structure just to load vehicles is a whole other story.

If you want to see Rosebrock in action, he is supposed to present on either June 11 or June 18 before the CD-11 Neighborhood Empowerment Congress. Bring your questions, but study the website above first.

[Shaun]

putting rail lines in the middle of freeways works for suburban type commuter rail systems. BART in the Bay Area, DC's Metro, and Atlanta's MARTA have many lines that run in the median of freeways out in the suburbs. Southern CA i think was the first to put a rail line (freight) in the middle of the freeway on the 10 out in the SGV or IE from what I remember.
Putting rail lines in the middle of freeways works out in suburban locations where most people drive to the stations anyways. But once you get to a denser more urban part of the metro area like Westwood, Century City, Downtown, Hollywood, ect.. then it needs to go undergound or elevated and away from the freeway.

basically LA needs a system like BART which is kind of a commuter/urban rail hybrid. It's commuter rail out in the suburbs with stations spaced 3 or more miles apart and large parking lots but becomes an urban rail system in Oakland, Berekly, and SF and goes undergound and most stations there dont have parking.

[Bart Reed]

The Monorail idea has lots of problems. The guy who is proposing it refuses to answer legitimate questions. He just thinks eveyone else is wrong and he has all the answers. He claims that you can build this cheaper, faster and better. Ah, the ingredients of "Magical Thinking".

Here is a website in answer to his fantasy: http://www.wilshiremonorail.net/

The proposal is to carry cars on a monorail. That means the train would have to be 20 feet wide. The launch structure just to load vehicles is a whole other story.

If you want to see Rosebrock in action, he is supposed to present on either June 11 or June 18 before the CD-11 Neighborhood Empowerment Congress. Bring your questions, but study the website above first.

[Bart Reed]

The Monorail idea has lots of problems. The guy who is proposing it refuses to answer legitimate questions. He just thinks eveyone else is wrong and he has all the answers. He claims that you can build this cheaper, faster and better. Ah, the ingredients of "Magical Thinking".

Here is a website in answer to his fantasy: http://www.wilshiremonorail.net/

The proposal is to carry cars on a monorail. That means the train would have to be 20 feet wide. The launch structure just to load vehicles is a whole other story.

If you want to see Rosebrock in action, he is supposed to present on either June 11 or June 18 before the CD-11 Neighborhood Empowerment Congress. Bring your questions, but study the website above first.

[Michael L]

People need to stop suggesting that we build rail lines down the middle of freeways. Have you ever been on the green line? What an awful experience. Freeways (unlike rail) decrease the surrounding area's property value which means that there is not much there. Honestly, do you want to set up shop or live next to the freeway? I and many others have little to no interest, unless we have to, to trek over or under a freeway to get to the rail station. Freeways are built with cars in mind so they get you CLOSE to your destination but rail should be designed for people so they should take you TO your destination. I can guarantee by and large your destination is not walking distance from the freeway. Rail lines must NOT be built on freeway's!! They need to go to where people can walk to the places they want to go or they are a waste of money. Part of the reason the red line works is that when you come out of the station there is little to no more walking. I am done with my rant now.

[Sanchez]

Monorail sounds like a good idea but not at Wilshire. The reason many people take the bus from downtown to Westwood or Santa Monica and not the subway is because the waste of time in transferring from subway to bus at Western. We already have a subway and we should complete it to the sea. From ground break to opening day the subway can be completed in 18 months. Monorail might work but along the River.
The blue line is very different then the red/purple line. The reason the blue line can go underground and out is that it takes it power from above, just like the gold line will to east L.A. . I remember reading that subway trains get power from under the train. Have you ever seen the large third metal piece running along the train tracks? Can one imagine that in the streets? Cars will not be able to cross over them and people will die from electric shock crossing the streets.

[Sheryl]

The 405?

How about ALL THE FREEWAYS?

Get rid of the stupid carpool lanes and replace them with TRAIN TRACKS.

I'm absolutely certain WAY more people would use the trains than currently use the carpool lanes. If you don't believe it, someone should do a count of the rail passengers on the Green Line vs. the number of cars in the carpool lanes!

[kevin]

lets not forget the simpsons episode, mono-d'oh. why mix another form in with what you already have. foolish.

as a san diego resident i am waiting for LA (the only real 'liberal' area in so cal) to get off it's butt and make mass transit a goal. I can't stand trips to LA because getting around is such a nightmare. I don't know how many billions of dollars are wasted with people sitting on socal freeways. LA people are progressive, it just needs to be sold correctly to them.