Expo Line: Venice vs Santa Monica

Santa Monica officials have long hoped the extension of the Expo Line would end in its downtown area. The route would mostly follow existing track through West L.A. and Santa Monica, along Exposition Boulevard.

Now a group of homeowners is posing a third possible alignment: Divert the light-rail line onto Venice Boulevard straight down to Lincoln Boulevard in Venice, bypassing the city of Santa Monica altogether. The group likes this route because it keeps the rail line out of their neighborhoods.

This would dash Santa Monica's hopes of end the line at the old Sears building at Fourth Street and Colorado Avenue. The city bought the building last year for $35 million in hopes of converting it into a rail station.

-JEAN GUCCIONE

What do you think? Should the Expo Line end in Santa Monica of Venice? Hit COMMENT button and have your say!

Cool aerial photos of the proposed routes.

Comments

[Konnie Stevens]

Why not have the lite rail go straight down the middle of the10 freeway-
and have it end up at the pier?-
There are no homes or people to abort the path-
The lane already exists-
Forget the car pool lane and have the line go from dwontown straight down the middle of the 10 freeway to Santa Monica
Easy Peasy-

[RB]

It's amazing that with all of the positive support for light rail and mass transit, there isn't more being done. I agree with the majority of comments on this site that if we have the ROW available, we should use it. Some residents of Cheviot is making a big stink about it now, but once it's built and clearing up congestion, they wonder how they ever lived without it.

More about the public support though. The politicians in Washington are working on repealing the old law that banned federal dollars from being used to tunnel through LA's methane areas, the next step is to repeal the county law forbidding county dollars from being used for tunnel projects. Light rail will only take us so far. We need to give Metro and Caltrans the tools to move people and commerce through high density areas such as West Hollywood, Santa Monica, Wilshire and West LA.

My thanks to the people of Cheviot who support the ROW. That's civic pride in action.

[Eric Mankin]

I write to object to what seems to be a completely disingenuous stance by the Cheviot neighborhood association and others in opposing the Exposition right of way.

If they frankly said that they didn't want the tracks adjacent to their neighborhood because of negative impacts, that would be honest and straightforward. The specific impacts could be discussed and evaluated, in detail and taken into consideration.

But instead of doing this, speaking for themselves, they instead adopting a stance where they presume speak for the city as a whole, and for their neighbors.

They say the route should detour along Venice and Sepulveda not because of their minor problems, we're given to understand, but rather because of the big picture, for the benefit of people living in those neighborhoods, and the greater good of the city.

We don't hear the residents of those neighborhoods rallying enthusiastically around this proposal -- not surprising, considering the traffic delays and problems the construction will cause, lasting for years. Nor do we hear the rest of the city saying, yes, let's serve more.

Again: if the Cheviot people have specific environmental concerns, let them make their case. But let them make their own case, not pretend to make ours.

[Michael]

As a longtime resident of Cheviot Hills, I just wanted to let the world know that the Cheviot Hills Homeowner's Association does NOT represent the views of the entire population of Cheviot Hills. They are a small group who opposes the Expo Line along the ROW so much that they ran for and became elected to the Association (which homeowners can voluntairily choose to join and pay fees to or not). Myself and many other Cheviot Hills residents do support the ROW path for the Expo Line, but don't care so strongly about it that we feel the need to organize and become vocal. I am starting to hear from neighborhood groups who do support use of the ROW, including www.lightrailforcheviot.org, and wish them the best. I think a light rail through Cheviot Hills would be a wonderful asset to this community and hope to see it happen.

[Scotty]

Actually, we need both. At Culver Junction, the line should split. One line goes on the old ROW to Santa Monica, like it should! And the other line will go right down Venice Blvd. to Venice. Anyone seen the Venice buses lately? They are packed at Lincoln all the way to Vermont. The same people using the 33 Line to Vermont today (and most transfer at Crenshaw, Western and Vermont) can all do the same on the Expo line. Why not have two legs? It makes perfect sense! However, let's get the first leg done on the easiest part...the old PE ROW. And for those in Cheviot Hills, move if you don't like it.

[Concerned neighbor]

How incredible would it be if Los Angeles finally came of age with some sophisticated public transportation? How unfair is it if you purchased a house along a right of way, purchased it at a discount because of the ROW, and yet you protest the use of that ROW for the exact purpose for which it was intended?

We need public transportation in LA. We must be diligent to ensure neighborhood mitigations are properly put in place such as grade changes, noise control, parking studies, etc.. so that the line is palatable to the majority of residents. Look at the roads, we need good public transport and light rail is a great option.

[Nick Santangelo]

I agree it would be nice to have a line to Venice, but Santa Monica has planned for it, the line is largely intact and the momentum is there. i also believe that concerns regarding property values- largely asinine arguments in my opinion- can be addressed. Where is the data detailing rail brings values down and somehow lowers academic achievement in the schools adjacent to the route?

I live five houses from the Gold Line. Bought the place while the line was in planning stages. Best decision I ever made: higher property values, access to Union Station and LAX via Flyaway; Hollywood, et al. I look forward to visiting the Westside without the parking and traffic headaches.

[tae]

LA, the second largest metropolis in the country does not have a rapid transit artery linking its two major commercial centers (downtown and the westside). This is an outright travesty, and residents living near existing right of ways should look beyond their personal property values and focus on the broader picture. air quality will improve, commute times will be much quicker, east-west traffic congestion will ease, and we'll be at least a little less dependent on foreign oil. I agree with the comment above that the purple line is just a theoretical glimmer of hope for commuters working in the westside. By the time it overcomes all of the physical and bureaucratic hurdles it'll be well over "budget" anyway.

simply put using the existing right of ways off exposition bl is the best, quickest solution, and it'll provide a reliable transit option for the hard working , tax paying middle class workers. Let's please not be like south Orange County and make irrational decisions that favor perceived property values at the price of human suffering.

[Robert J. Simon, MD]

Not only have the Cheviot Board leaders strongarmed the community, but they have even outed those in dissent from the Board. For the first time in the history of the organization, a board member has been left off the slate for reelection...and because I disagreed with those who favor the Venice Sepulveda route over the ROW. The new Board, if elected, will consist of only those who support the single position forwarded by the Northvale homeowners who fear their properties will be destroyed, devalued, defamed or whatever as a result of the lightrail coming along side Cheviot Hills. They cannot see that they have taken a position too early, with little or no information, and are not acting in the best interest of the whole community they are supposed to represent. As the Light Rail for Cheviot group grows in numbers maybe it will, at least, represent that large number of community members that now have no voice. By the way, only 50% of the homeowners in the Cheviot Hills area belong to the homeowners association.

[karen leonard]

In my previous post I should have said that some of us in Cheviot Hills have formed a group, Light Rail for Cheviot, taking a stance in favor of the existing Right of Way (it runs along the edge of, not through, Cheviot Hills). We are growing in numbers every day and have a website and we represent something like 1/4 to 1/3 of the Cheviot Hills residents already. So the Homeowners' Association does not represent the neighborhood; it voted before information was available (it is still not fully available) and it has put out inaccurate and misleading flyers and mailers about the two REAL routes involved, the ROW and Venice/Sepulveda, in the current Scoping Meetings being conducted by the Exposition Metro Line Construction Authority.

[Elodie in Rancho Park]

Angel used the term "madness" with regard to the Venice/Sepulveda route. I couldn't agree more. For unselfish reasons I'd like to reduce the number of people riding in cars to reduce impact to the environment. If people are going to leave the little four-wheeled buggers at home, alternative transportation must be CONVENIENT. For the car vs. rail decision, if riding the rail takes significantly longer than driving, the decision will be for the car. We cannot afford to add 10 minutes to the rail ride by routing the line down Venice/Sepulveda. For selfish reasons I'd love to ride the train to downtown and Santa Monica. I also hope it will reduce traffic on the 10 and the surface streets in Rancho Park.

ANd then there's the little matter of the extra cost to run the line down Venice/Sepulveda--approx. $100M according to Friends4Expo.

Cheviot Hills homeowners seem concerned about the following issues: (1) property values, (2) noise, (3) crime, and (4) safety for school children. Studies have shown that property values actually INCREASE with proximity to light rail. See http://www.apta.com/research/info/briefings/briefing_1.cfm. With adequate sound barriers, the noise should not be a problem (this according to school principals on the Gold Line). There is some evidence that there are sometimes increases in petty crime near stations with parking and nearby liquor stores. Can't we mitigate this impact with security cameras and police patrols? Last, we are ALL concerned about the safety of our school children. The Venice/Sepulveda route has TWO schools, while the Cheviot Hills ROW has only ONE.

I can see no good reason to route the line down Venice/Sepulveda. Let's not let a small group of homeowners derail a project that would benefit the entire city, including them.

Thanks for listening.

[Bobby Milder]

We are fortunate to have the expo line in our neighborhood. We should all want the the benefits that would come from a mini station on Overland. Property values will sky rocket. Travel to/from downtown will be bareable at last.

Personally, I am tired of the false statements by a very few people trying to kill this great idea for purely selfish reasons.

[karen leonard]

What a ridiculous attempt to divert attention and light rail traffic from a "village" with an isolationist mentality. Let's have a fast, safe, cheap light rail line from Culver City to Santa Monica that will benefit the city as a whole and also benefit Cheviot Hills.

[Friends 4 Expo Transit]

An Expo Line alternative along Venice Blvd. to Venice would not fullfill the Expo Line's purpose of going to West Los Angeles and Santa Monica, especially for the huge number of west-bound commuters jamming the Santa Monica Freeway to jobs there.

See the just-updated www.friends4expo.org for our new images and information about the alternatives being studied for phase 2.

[Brandon]

Quoting TrafficBulldog: "Our MTA is already operating in financial stress. Our transit system does not scale well. It costs taxpayers $1000/month per 20 mile commuter. If we all took MTA transit we would go bankrupt as taxpayers."

A direct increase in MTA rider ship does not necessarily correlate to an increase in the cost of operation. Most likely, the average cost per rider will decrease as rider ship increases, as the existing trains and buses are more full. Admittedly, costs may increase as new services are added, but the increase in revenue from fares (due to the increase in ridership) will offset at least some of this cost.

Your statement arguing that we would go bankrupt if everyone used MTA is little more than a gross exaggeration.

[GAsher]

The proposed Expo route may be a few minutes faster, but the proposed Venice route would have more transit-oriented development (TOD). The Venice route would serve more people and would create more neighborhoods that are walkable. Much of the Expo route is either inaccessible (the Cheviot trench) or goes through low-density warehouse districts where nobody lives.

[Tom A.]

A line down Venice would certainly be nice, but not until higher priority lines (i.e. Expo along the current right of way, Gold Line Foothill Extension, etc.) are done. Heck, you cold probably build Expo and Venice and still have money leftover for what the Subway to the Sea would cost.
But I said it before and I'll say it again: We in the San Gabriel Valley are still part of L.A. County, last I checked. So PLEASE make sure the next rail project you break ground on is the Foothill Extension.

http://www.metrogoldline.org/

[TrafficBulldog.org]

Me Me me....

what I want ....what I want....

Anyone want to consider looking to themselves to help the transportation crisis?

Anyone consider that maybe they could find others to commute with and save on costs at the same time.

Our MTA is already operating in financial stress. Our transit system does not scale well. It costs taxpayers $1000/month per 20 mile commuter. If we all took MTA transit we would go bankrupt as taxpayers.

We must look to ourselves.... to our own actions that can make a difference.

MTA has been at this for over 20 years now. And traffic still gets worse.

Do you suppose there might be another way that is not being considered?

htt://trafficbulldog.org is a Commuter Advocacy group focused on getting our freeways moving again. Heck, that might even help us in the world of global competition.

[Sheryl]

What, exactly, is IN Venice that they want the train to go to?

Nothing but sand.

The Expo Line MUST go to Santa Monica, simply because it's going to take another 500 years to dig the mythical Purple Line. I go to the Metro Sector meetings regularly, and I'm telling you, transit riders will be lucky to get the Purple Liine to Crenshaw in this lifetime; and as far as Fairfax in the lifetimes of this year's first graders. Their children might see it get as far as La Cienega.

They'll finish digging to Santa Monica about the year 2525, if Man is still alive. We'll have FTL space flight to the Andromeda galaxy before they finish the Purple Line to Santa Monica.

The Expo Line, OTOH, is above ground all the way, in existing right-of-ways. It's a simple solve that can be done in 5-7 years if fully funded. There's no excuse to hold everyone else hostage for a few malcontents.

Besides which, these doofuses knew there were train tracks next to their property when they bought it. It's no different than the numbskulls in the LAX flight path!

[Cheviotisnotla]

Screw the Nimbys in Cheviot.

Throw the line in all the way down the existing right of way to Santa Monica. Don't divert it. ANd build it now.

Why should we all have to suffer because a bunch of rich white people are selfish?

[Angel Garcia]

Imagine my commute. I take the 105 west to the 405 North to drop off my wife. I take the 10 east to downtown Los Angeles to work. In the afternoon I go down the 110 to start dinner and do some work at home, then I go back on the 105 west, to the 405 North, pick up my wife, go back on the 405 South and the 105 East back home. I make the circle of death. A train that ends in Santa Monica would be perfect. It would reduce traffic on the 10, which is bad no matter what direction your going, and it will continue the revitalization of downtown LA and Santa Monica. It sounds great, and you are just plain dumb to think otherwise. why waste Billions going to Venice. No one goes to VENICE for work. Now, all we need is a train connecting LAX with Van Nuys Airport and a train connecting San Pedro with Downtown and I will never have to drive AGAIN

[movielocke]

Screw the idiots at Cheviot, hills, a 100 million extra dollars to be spent by the city so their property values won't go up? They're about as self interested as Republicans in Kansas, acting against what would be fiscally best for themselves. Send it along the rail right of way, save money and let Cheviot Hills fume about 1/4 mile, 1320 feet of rail along a minor corner of their neighborhood. Any other decision is madness. The rail should connect to the pier and the promenade, which is what the right of way would accomplish, cheaper, better for tourism, better for the coast, better for business, better for riders, and yes, better for Cheviot Hills.

There is absolutely no downside, none, to using the right of way, but there are plenty of downsides to using the other suggested routes.

and if the right of way is used, then the money saved could be put towards putting a phase one rail line from LAX down Lincoln blvd to connect to the Expo line, get Venice and Santa Monica hotels etc to partially fund it as it would be enormously beneficial to them. A phase two of that line would extend to UCLA, a phase three would get over(or under) the hill to the orange line. phase four could take you all the way up to metrolink at the 5 and 405. And that rail line would be a major help in securing the 2016 olympics.

[Bob Zwolinski]

I trust the Expo Line from Culver City to Santa Monica will follow the original Pacific Electric right of way through Rancho Park. Diverting it to Venice and Sepulveda will add 10 to 15 minutes to the route minimum, making it much less desirable.

The old Pacific Electric right of way in the middle of Venice Boulevard was abandoned almost 57 years ago and finally paved over 20 years later. Let’s leave it buried. Venice & Sepulveda are well beyond grade “F” during rush-hour anyway. Taking away one lane in each direction to accommodate the light-rail line would be ridiculous.

I’m sure that through proper mitigation, the NIMBYS of Cheviot Hills & Ranch Park can be satisfied.

I don’t understand NIMBYism. I live ½ block from the proposed alignment in Santa Monica and would love to have a station within walking distance of my front door.
Property values and rents skyrocket around transit stations, no matter the city.

We needed this transit line 30 years ago! Let’s be responsible adults and get this line built ASAP!

Bob Zwolinski
Santa Monica

[Michael]

It makes perfect sense for the expo line to go to venice and the purple line to go to santa monica. In the future they could be linked by some sort of sepulveda train that goes from sherman oaks to the airport. As much as I don't like the NIMBY's, this proposal does make sense. Now if only money was no factor.