Ask the Bottleneck Blog: 710 Freeway tunnel

Times Staff Writer Jean Guccione covers transportation in L.A. Jean will try to answer a few of the many questions about commuting and traffic we hear at the Bottleneck Blog.

Q: Transportation leaders have been trying to "close the gap" on the 710 Freeway between Alhambra and Pasadena for decades. If the idea of building a tunnel under South Pasadena works, how much would it help commuters?

A: MTA members Richard Katz said the project would reduce traffic through downtown Los Angeles by 20% giving motorists traveling to and from the northern part of the county a more convenient alternative freeway route. "For 30 years, the tail has been waging the dog on this thing," Katz said. "It’s time to bring relief to the rest of the county." Alhambra officials also say it would end the spillover of traffic off the 710 into their community.

What do you think of the 710 tunnel. Hit the COMMENT button below and have your say!

Comments

[Dean Thomas]

The extension is necessary. If South Pasadena won't allow the extenstion to go through it, then under it is the only option. Start digging!

[E]

"I live in South Pas and NEVER drive through Alhambra. Don't be so narrow-minded and rah-rah Alhambra. I'm sure you would be singing a different tune if your home was going to be bulldozed through!"

If you drive the 110 Freeway to South Pasadena, you already drive over more truly historic bulldozed homes, i.e., Chavez Ravine. But that's OK, right?

[RB]

Use the money to expand the metro system. A subway will be able to move more people quicker than any freeway, whether above or below ground. Yes they are expensive, but easier to accommodate more capacity. Don't bulldoze any homes and don't tunnel a 16 lane highway. Just tunnel enough room for a couple of trains to pass through. We've survived without the freeway link this long. I think it's time to stop building freeways, and move to more mass transit.

[Travis]

The tunnel idea is insane. Way too much expense put on the majority to serve the interests of the minority.

But, hypothetically/politically, if a freeway-type expressway (ie no exit/onramps) is the only way to build this critical link, would it be possible to go high (real high) in the air as a cheaper way of alleviating the impact on the community?

Imagine:

http://www.siteselection.com/ssinsider/snapshot/sf050103.htm

[Yu-Han]

For Caltrans, this project is all about connecting the 710 with the 210 so there's a new bypass route around downtown (as Richard points out). Truckers would like to be able to avoid heading up the 5, instead going 710 to 210N. Local folks in Alhambra/San Gabriel who want to get to Pasadena will still have to take local roads because there will be NO EXITS between the 710/10 interchange, and the 210/134 interchange. Putting just one interchange at Huntington Dr is estimated to cost >$1B extra (total cost is well over 5B). And thats in 2007 dollars. By the time this is built, and based on experiences like the Big Dig (btw, I just moved here from Boston), multiply everything by 5. And this would be an Extreme Big Dig, where they are proposing mining the largest diameter tunnel ever built.

So the project is really about spending billions of dollars for moving trucks around and improving a few long-distance commutes. The entire transportation bond package we just passed probably wouldn't be enough to cover it. And all for what? To connect two highways together with a tunnel with no exits? If that's all we're going to get, there's plenty of other extravagant tunnels we could build: Connect the 710 with the 2 around Glassell Park instead, let's say. That would move the trucks northwards just as well.

Or put in some good trenched rails like the LOSSAN project, except extend that up north past downtown and perhaps all the way towards Santa Clarita. And make it electric. We can all breathe easier this way, instead of getting exhaust from all the semis. You might even get to clean up part of the LA River along the way. And this trench could later be used for high speed rail, as well. Or, with all that money, solve the 405 Sepulveda Pass bottleneck... with a new mega tunnel!

[Yu-Han]

For Caltrans, this project is all about connecting the 710 with the 210 so there's a new bypass route around downtown (as Richard points out). Truckers would like to be able to avoid heading up the 5, instead going 710 to 210N. Local folks in Alhambra/San Gabriel who want to get to Pasadena will still have to take local roads because there will be NO EXITS between the 710/10 interchange, and the 210/134 interchange. Putting just one interchange at Huntington Dr is estimated to cost >$1B extra (total cost is well over 5B). And thats in 2007 dollars. By the time this is built, and based on experiences like the Big Dig (btw, I just moved here from Boston), multiply everything by 5. And this would be an Extreme Big Dig, where they are proposing mining the largest diameter tunnel ever built.

So the project is really about spending billions of dollars for moving trucks around and improving a few long-distance commutes. The entire transportation bond package we just passed probably wouldn't be enough to cover it. And all for what? To connect two highways together with a tunnel with no exits? If that's all we're going to get, there's plenty of other extravagant tunnels we could build: Connect the 710 with the 2 around Glassell Park instead, let's say. That would move the trucks northwards just as well.

Or put in some good trenched rails like the LOSSAN project, except extend that up north past downtown and perhaps all the way towards Santa Clarita. And make it electric. We can all breathe easier this way, instead of getting exhaust from all the semis. You might even get to clean up part of the LA River along the way. And this trench could later be used for high speed rail, as well. Or, with all that money, solve the 405 Sepulveda Pass bottleneck... with a new mega tunnel!

[Richard]

A little more detail should be given about the type of traffic that would be diverted from other area freeways by closing the gap between the 210 and 710 freeways with an underground freeway (or any other kind of freeway, for that matter). If this were just a commuter issue, I doubt a project of this magnitude that would cost billions would ever be considered let alone see the light of day (maybe I should say, see the light at the end of the tunnel).

Look at an area freeway map. The 710 starts at the Los Angeles/Long Beach Harbor area and abruptly terminates on Valley Blvd. just north of I-10. If the 710 were to “hypothetically” be extended through to the 210 in Pasadena in one fashion or another, we would have a major freeway artery from Long Beach to I-5 in Sylmar that bypasses the East Los Angeles Interchange and the San Fernando Valley. For commuters, that probably doesn’t mean anything. But for truckers? Particularly Interstate Truckers?
Truckers that want to get their freight out of the Harbor area and out of the Los Angeles Metropolitan region as quickly as possible?

Because there is no connection between I-210 and I-710, the truck traffic from the Harbor switches to the I-5 and goes through the East Los Angeles Interchange. This means more congestion and traffic on Los Angeles downtown area freeways that already have too much congestion. If there was a major freeway route from the harbor to I-5 in Sylmar, that bypassed the East Los Angeles Interchange, that would DEFINITELY contribute to easing the traffic congestion on freeways running through the City of Los Angeles.

I commuted on the I-210 between Pasadena and the Ronald Reagan Freeway for several years in the 1980’s and 1990’s. I don’t think I encountered any major congestion, other than from an accident or other emergency or construction related freeway stoppage the entire time I drove it.

[Spiff]

E,

I live in South Pas and NEVER drive through Alhambra. Don't be so narrow-minded and rah-rah Alhambra. I'm sure you would be singing a different tune if your home was going to be bulldozed through!

By the way Calvin, South Pas is not just a wealthy enclave. It is a very diverse area with people of all socioeconomic levels. There are apartments, townhomes, condos, single-family homes, and mansions. It is a beautiful community and should be saved, not destroyed!

[Robert McCoy]

If anyone can remember the Big Dig in Boston and how much over budget that project was, or can remember all the problems that are continuing to come to the surface today, then you will not be dissappointed with what is in store if the 710 tunnel is undertaken. Boston will look like a cakewalk by comparison to what we will see.

Robert

[E]

If South Pasadena continues its NIMBYism and continues to fight the 710 from being completed (BTW, those oh-so-historic South Pas homes can also be found everywhere from Pomona to Altadena) the City of Alhambra should build a toll road on Fremont Ave that will charge South Pasadena residents at least $5 for each trip through their city. Residents of Alhambra would be allowed to pass for free. The money from this would go towards maintaining the Alhambra streets that South Pasadena residents wear out.

[frank]

I am disappointed to read this blog and find only ignorant comments. The City of South Pasadena has proposed a number of alternatives to the freeway that would alleviate the congestion as well as preserve the City. If you wish to actually make a knowledgeable statement I encourage you to review the alternative plan currently outlined on the City's website.
The City of South Pasadena has a rich and beautiful history, have we not destroyed enough of the City with freeways?

[Jeff]

Calvin, you sound like that brilliant Pentagon flack during the Vietnam War who, when asked about the city the U.S. Army was sent in to fight for replied, "IT BECAME NECESSARY TO DESTROY THE CITY IN ORDER TO SAVE IT." That basically is your approach to congestion. Bulldoze! Bombs away. But I wonder if you would feel the same way if your own home was in the path of the bulldozers or the bombs? Where you see no value others see the most value. A quiet neighborhood. Families. Kids playing. Yes, other communities have been very damaged by freeway construction. Is that really the best reason to destroy yet another southern California community? Can't you do better than that, Calvin?

[John DiFrancesca]

Jean: much 101 east traffic through the valley is caused by drivers who use the through-lanes to avoid the line for the 405-south offramp. In order for those drivers to cut into the front of the line, they have to sit in the through lane, stopping all traffic behind them. Is this a ticketable offense? If so, a visible enforcement program would discourage the practice and probably save a great deal of commuters' time. If not, what else can be done?

[N.Zamora]

Whatever way they choose i.e. tunnel, overpass, or new roads; let's find the funding to do it. There is way too much traffic no matter which path you choose being the 110, Fremont, Atlantic, etc. If we need to make it a Toll Road, I'm for that also. Just get the construction started.

[Dan Cruz]

I believe the tunnel would relieve street traffic in South Pasadena and Alhambra. It is very diffcult to go North or South on South Pasadena streets to get to Alhambra or Pasadena, even just to get through the city on Freemont and Fairoaks. One other solution besides a tunnel would be to continue the 710 North to Mission Road and to Huntingon Drive to relieve the traffic on Freemont if South Pasadena continues to block the freeway through their city.

[Calvin]

South Pasadena, like other wealthy enclaves, enjoys the economic and cultural advantages of being situated in the Los Angeles metroplex, but at the same time refuses to participate in its infrastructure. The brouhaha over the 710 freeway extension and opposition to the Gold Line are cases in point. There is nothing of value in South Pasadena for other L.A. County residents - no concert halls, no museums, no sports arena, no shopping malls, etc. I say bulldoze the whole 710 route through South Pasadena and put a 16 lane freeway through there. Then they can join the ranks of less advantaged regions like East L.A., Southern L.A. County, and Pacoima/Arleta whose communities have been sliced and diced by freeways.

[Robert de Spelder]

Deep six the idea.

[Robert de Spelder]

Deep six the idea.

[giovany]

I feel this would be an excellent project to pursue. Not only would it help the people that currently go through downtown but also people on the east side which normally take streets running in parallel to freemont to get to pasadena.