Measles or autism? Not a choice

Public discussion of childhood immunizations has been set of late by their opponents. They contend, extremely vehemently, that the vaccinations can cause autism. The risk of childhood disease, many of these critics say, is a small one compared to the risk of autism.

Now one of the diseases behind those vaccinations has struck close to home, with the L.A. Times reporting Monday that a local child has been hospitalized with measles. Arizona and Wisconsin have reported outbreaks as well.  And the CDC recently urged measles vaccinations for unimmunized travelers to Israel, site of a recent 900-case outbreak.

Measles, if you'll recall, still kills hundreds of thousands of people a year, most of them under 5 and most of them in less-well-immunized -- and not-so-thoroughly-televised -- countries.

So far, however, there's been little public discussion of the repercussions of going unimmunized when the risk of childhood diseases becomes more than hypothetical. Opponents, feel free to weigh in on balancing that risk.

In the meantime, here are other parents of autistic kids, with views different from those commonly heard:

In Joy of Autism: "It is truly frightening how far certain parties are willing to go to prove that vaccines cause autism, which science has proven otherwise."

In Autism Vox: "... even with greater public access to such scientific evidence disputing a vaccine-autism link, the belief that vaccines or something in vaccines can be directly pointed to as a cause of autism has so far proven more than difficult to dispel."

And in Stop. Think. Autism., before she tackled Jenny McCarthy's recent comments on "Larry King Live," the author wrote that: "Parents, and the public, must see the danger in not vaccinating, the harm of placing blame on something that science continues to dismiss..."

-- Tami Dennis

Photo: Immunization before eighth grade in Garden Grove, Don Kelsen / Los Angeles Times

Comments

[Ginger Taylor]

"So far, however, there's been little public discussion of the repercussions of going unimmunized "

That is because most proponents of the autism/vaccine connection are not proposing that people go unimmunized.

They (and my they i mean we) are propsoing eliminating known neurotoxins and carcinogens from vaccines, adjusting the vaccine schedule to a more reasonable delivery, separating vaccines so children are got getting shots together that have not been safety tested together, and screening children BEFORE vaccinating them to find which children are vulnerable to vaccine injury.

You in the resistant media need to face the facts, the science that is inditing vaccines in the autism epidemic is growing fast. Health and Human Services agreed that vaccines set off Hannah Poling's autism and will be paying her about a million dollars from the vaccine injury compensation fund. CDC's own internal estimates put the rate of children who may have Poling's mitochondrial disorder that made her vulnerable to the vaccine injury at 2% OF THE GENERAL POPULATION, yet they continue to claim that it is 'rare'!

The debate is over. Our highest health authorities have stated that vaccines are a cause of autism.

Do your research.

[Ginger Taylor]

... but you are right, Measles or autism? Not a choice.

Give me measles over autism ANY day.

[Matt]

As you say, it isn't a choice. The measles vaccine doesn't cause autism. People like to try to make the discussion center on "I'd rather my kid had measles than autism." It makes people assume that there is a choice.
.
No, there isn't.
.
The choice is between having a kid who can catch the measles or not. That kid may or may not have autism, but the measles vaccine isn't going to make a difference in that.

[Maurine Meleck]

to those of you who keep repeating the government mantra-the science has shown us there is no connection between vaccines and autism--have missed a good deal of the science.. Stop reading what the CDC says because it controls and mandates the vaccine program and also determines the safety of it. Doesn't that smell to you? Wouldn't you want an independent, unbiased study for the sake of your children.? DEmand an independent study of vaccinated vs unvaccinated kids from your gov't representatives and then let's see what happens. Meanwhile, know that while this study is not done--the numbers of those who will no longer vaccinate grows every day bigger and BIGGER.
Maurine Meleck

[Matt]

Ms. Taylor is trying hard on her own blog and elsewhere to claim that the government has conceded that vaccines cause autism.

One of the actual statements by them is

""DVIC has reviewed the scientific information concerning the allegation that vaccines cause autism and has found no credible evidence to support the claim. Accordingly, in every case under the Vaccine Act, DVIC has maintained the position that vaccines do not cause autism, and has never concluded in any case that autism was caused by vaccination.""

Ms. Taylor is invited to not only do her research, but to accurately portray what that research states.

[Elaine Dow]

The vaccine schedule is crumbling due to a lack of trust in the AAP, CDC, NIH, FDA and state health officials. If children have a diagnosis of autism, no medical labs will be run on them. Why? Because just about every system in their body is damaged. Thimerosal, a mercury based perservative is the main culprit. It was not removed in 2001 like the media states.Too many vaccines on one day, vaccines when the child is sick, high testosterone, which binds to mercury, and live viral vaccines are all causing the rise in austim. Look up symptoms of mercury poisoning and side by side they mirror autism, ADD/HD. Asthma is also a symptom of mercury poisoning. We now have the most unhealthy children, they are all sick. Why won't the doctors run any labs? Because the liver, digestive system, food allergies, amino acids immune system are all out of wack. Then they would have to treat the child and not be able to sell them drugs such as antidepressants, anphetamines, anti-psychotics. A physicain took an oath to do no harm and yet the vaccines have harmed up to one in three children. Our children are not a science experiment! Thirty vaccines up to age 15 months have never been proven to be safe. Flu vaccine and MMR are contraindicated on the insert when a women is pregnant, why are the doctors doing this? Because they can. In lines from Dr. Malcolm in Jurassic Park "Let me tell you about your little science experiment. It didn't take any dissapline to obtain it. You read what others had wrote and you took the next step. You didn't earn the knowledge for yourself, so you don't take any responsiblility for it. AND "your scientist were so preoccupied that they could, they didn't stop and think that they should.! And that is exactly what happened with vaccines.

[Harold blog]

The vaccine schedule is crumbling due to baseless allegations and fear mongering by people with a weak grasp of the science. Among bona fide scientists there is no controversy - that exists solely in the fevered imaginations of people like Ginger Taylor. Thank you LA Times for noting that measles kills.

[Carrie H]

You are a bunch of fools if you think there is no link between autism and vaccines. I have two sons in which my husband and I held them down and got them immunized, within six weeks my son lost all speech and stopped eating food. He is now six and has yet to speak a word, and he still does not eat solid foods. You will never prove that vaccines do not cause autism because they do. I would also take measles over autism any day.

[Gatogorra]

True, in the Third World, measles can be deadly among children suffering comorbid diseases of severe poverty such as malnutrition, unsafe water, lack of any healthcare, etc.. They also die of rotting teeth, ear infections, cuts and scrapes, insect bites-- many things which children in the "first world" don't typically die of unless they're extremely immune compromised... and uninsured.

But measles weren't deadly for my mother's generation. Neither was chicken pox. And why are they giving a vax to newborns for a disease passed by tainted drug needles and unprotected sex without testing the mothers for it?

It's a straw man construct to say that the enviro autism movement seeks to end vaccinations. As Ginger Taylor put it so well, we want safer tot shots given later and farther apart, ones without mercury, aluminum, antifreeze, MSG, formaldehyde and a host of tainted, unintended pathogens and toxins which arise from manufacturing performed in an atmosphere of absolute impunity, thanks to total regulatory capture. We want screening for susceptibility.

This deliberate misreporting and disinformation is greatly responsible for the current neurotoxic disaster and the creation of the "Fourth World"-- the children of the epidemic.

[joe]

They knew that Thimerosal was neither efficacious nor safe in 1948

Dr. Morton of the Department of Bacteriology, University of
Pennsylvania
School of Medicine, Dr. North of the Philadelphia General Hospital,
and Mr.
Engley of Camp Detrick under a grant from the Council of Pharmacy and
Chemistry, American Medical Association have published an article in
the Journal of the American Medical Association.

This was when drugs came in little white boxes, no hype no pay offs
and Dr's, Scientist, senators and Congressman's, journalist had impeccable integrity.

See today's headlines on Merck ! and ghost written research signed off by crooked well known physicians. Seems every month we hear of a drug
that's killing or maiming Americans that was OK ed ! by the FDA. and we are worried about our financial agency's, Senators and Congressman calling
for their dismantling. Where are they in this important issue Oh! I know
most are in the pockets of pharma. you see if it's a campaign contribution
it can't be a bribe, so they think.

Remember the flu shots that were bad, thimerosal did not work then and
that was the easiest bacterial contaminant to kill, it could not even do the
job. And looking at this, we now know why ,as there research was
showing us it was worthless and dangerous

It is clear from this research supported by a grant from the American
Medical Association that Thimerosal is neither efficacious nor safe,
and
should be removed as a preservative in prescription biologics and
pharmaceutical products, as well as from topical over-the-counter
products
such as Butt-Balm that have Thimerosal present in their formulations
as an
active ingredient.

There was an interim plan in the 80's to get rid of thimerosal this came out at Congressman Burtons hearing on thimerosal. Dr. Engley was reported as saying on an KOMU article that "if they had followed through on our 82 report the vaccines would have been freed of thimerosal and all this autism they tell me would not have occurred"

THEY DESTROYED OUR CHILDREN FOR NO BENNIFIT NOT TO MENTION BEING WARNED BY
Dr. Engley and other Scientist with integrity, this is their findings of toxicity

"We found thimerosal is toxic down to a level that is almost unbelievable. Down to 1.10, maybe 100 nanograms...a millionth of a gram and that is about as toxic as you can get," he said." But the FDA, and the CDC did not listen 200 PPB is liquid toxic waste the chidren from the 90's some recieved 32,500 Parts Per Billion at one setting on one day. And you wonder what happened to the kids.

"Dr. Frank Engley is a retired chairman and professor of Microbiology at the University of Missouri. He served on various committees and panels and has consulted for the CDC, NASA, the FDA, and EPA. He did some of the first research on the toxicity of thimerosal.

** It should be noted that this article was published in the January
1948 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association
## It should be noted that this article was published in 1950 in the
Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences

[Kev]

Ginger Taylor said above:

"The debate is over. Our highest health authorities have stated that vaccines are a cause of autism."

Please could Ms Taylor provide a link to a document from any US health authority that backs this up?

[Tanners Dad]

All the hysterical parents are saying is Green our vaccines. Look at the facts:
1983: Autism rate 1 in 10,000
Vaccine schedule 10 shots
2008: Autism rate in boys 1 in 70
Vaccine schedule 36

My sons last words:
"My name is Tanner. My name is Tanner."
After his shots for school...

Show me any other campaign for disinformation as wound up as this one by the medical(vaccine maker) community. Remove the Mercury, Aluminum, formaldehyde, ether, antifreeze. Reevaluate the schedule. What was the death rate from these deadly diseases in 1983 that we had to add 26shots? If there are side effects to the vaccinations all we asking for is support for therapy, respite, and recovery.

"This does not represent anything other than a very special situation," said Dr. Julie Gerberding, head of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Who are you going to believe the Boss doing the spin or the Judge that slipped?

The case may not be a first, said Gary Golkiewicz, chief special master for the U.S. Court of Federal Claims. He oversees the special "vaccine court" which rules on requests for payments from the vaccine injury fund.
"Years ago, actually, I had a case, before we understood or knew the implications of autism, that the vaccine injured the child's brain caused an encephalopathy," he said. And the symptoms that come with that "fall within the broad rubric of autism."
And there are other somewhat similar cases, Golkiewicz says, that were decided before autism and its symptoms were more clearly defined

Reevaluate the schedule.

What was the death rate from these deadly diseases in 1983 that we had to add 26 shots?

If there are side effects to the vaccinations all we asking for is support for therapy, respite, and recovery.

[Susie Q]

"The vaccine schedule is crumbling due to baseless allegations and fear mongering by people with a weak grasp of the science".

Shame on you, Harold blog. Parents who have done their research on the dangers on vaccinations know the science better than 99.9% of pediatricians and CDC employees out there (never mind parents who go about life trusting these people to make decisions for them regarding vaccinations). You want to talk about fear mongering....? Let's talk about the fear mongering of the CDC when they tell people to run out and get their toxic flu shot (thimerosal laden). Let's talk about the nonsense of these doctors advising the Hep B vaccine at birth... There is so much spewed nonsense from our supposed trusted medical professionals that it is impossible to trust one word out of their mouths... and YOU want to blame us for fear mongering? Have your head examined... NOW !

[Wes]

Looking to a blog named "Joy of Autism" for information is about like asking David Duke for his opinion on social issues. Give me a break.

[Fred P.]

For the posts claiming research shows a confirmed scientific link between vaccinations and autism, could you either (1) publically post the link to the research you're claiming exists -- and I mean the scientific article itself -- else (2) please stop claiming there is research. You're arguing simply on "believe me, it exists" merits, which is not scientific. To be scientific, you need to have the actual study accessible by all... and I challenge you to post the actual link to any confirmed scientific link between vaccinations and autism. There is none.

I know you're either angry, because you're looking for a reason why your son or daughter has autism, or you're angry for some other reason and want to take it out our children; but clearly measles is not a better option. Measles kills, in case you forgot. Death. It's not pleasant for those who survive either. There's a reason why public health worked hard to eradicate infectious diseases like this; trouble is we've all forgotten for the most part why.

[Matt]

"It's a straw man construct to say that the enviro autism movement seeks to end vaccinations"

Please, check the "favorite" alternative vaccine schedule that Jenny McCarthy is promoting. It is on the website for the organization she is a board member of, and on the website she sends people to in her TV appearances.

This "Favorite" schedule includes no vaccination for Measles, Mumps or Rubella, amongst others. None. No protection at all.

Given that mortality from Measles alone is about 0.3% in the US, mostly children, and that permanent damage does occur from these disesases (measles, mumps and rubella), one has to ask the question:

Are those people who will die or be maimed by a lack of those vaccines "acceptable losses" for the "Green Your Vaccine" movement?

Keep in mind, Rubella infections in pregnant women is one of the known environmental causes of autism. Are those people "acceptable casualties" in this movement?

So, because they would "allow" a small number of vaccines to be given, they aren't "anti vaccine"?

Perhaps that makes the argument a "straw man" to you. To me, this dangerous alternative schedule is merely a "beard" for them to hide behind.

[Heather McLennand]

So, was this child immunized? You didnt say, and immunizations are NOT 100% effective. Even if you get your child immunized they can still get the measles. So, if given the choice...Measles vaccination...which has been proven to be inneffective OR Autism...a life long dibilitating deases that robs a child of their innocense, self being, condeming them to live inside themselves....

Yah, I would take the measles...and in fact. I did. I was innoculated..got the measles anyways. OH, I also had the chickenpox...survived that too.

[joe]

kev face it ,your soon losing your pharma bucks

[Heather]

For all of those who want "documented" proof.

www.pubmed.com. (this is a on line site that publishes medical journals/research ect)

Do a search - I found over 404 studies using autism and vaccines. You can shake it up and use your own search words though

You will find cases for and cases against. But the truth is there are THOUSANDS of parents out there...whose children changed directly after their vaccinations. THIS is a documented truth. Doccumented through our visits with the pediatrition, comments from family members ect.

I would LOVE the CDC/federal government to do a study of ALL autistic children a survey, how many children with regressive autism...how many regressed after vaccinations. Every parent I know whose child has regressive autism...that is the case.

After you read ALL of them pro vaccine and con vaccine published medical research - let me know if you would still feel good vaccinating your child.

[MikeBTexas]

All decisions in life must be weighted by risks associated with each option for the decision. The difference in the pro-vaccine crowd versus the anti-vaccine crowd is that the pro-vaccine crowd wants to weigh those risks FOR YOU, and the anti-vaccine crowd wants you to weigh those risks FOR YOURSELF. I personally believe each of us have fundamental American right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and therefore are entitled to weigh these risks for OURSELVES. What is the real risk to my child today if I don't get him vaccinated against measles? Don't read the CDC website for an honest assessment, try http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/Vaccines.html as this article has good research quotes and notes quite clearly the misinformation put out by the CDC. What are the real risks of causing/contributing to the development of autism if I give my child a vaccine today? Lots of research out there on the subject, but for each pro-vaccination article please note who funded and wrote the research (see http://medheadlines.com/2008/04/16/hired-writers-not-scientists-behind-mercks-vioxx-studies/ ) and also be sure to read critiques of these articles by other researchers who are not being funded. I think an honest person would say we don't know that any particular vaccine that might be given would on the day it was given, in combination with your child's unique makeup, would carry no risk. In fact you can see the agreed upon risks here: http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/table.htm and I would argue that this list is the MINIMUM list of possible risks. So is there a choice? Sure there is. If only you demand and exercise your constitutional right to decide FOR YOURSELF instead of blindly trusting people who on occasion after occasion show they are not primarily interested in your child's welfare.

PS. Fear mongering happens on both side of the argument quite well.

Thanks for using your most important God given tool!

MikeBTexas

[JoAnn]

Hannah's autism was triggered by nine childhood vaccinations

Father: Child's case shifts autism debate

By Jon S. Poling
For the Journal-Constitution
Published on: 04/11/08
Autism in the U.S. has reached epidemic levels, at 1 in 150 children. Dr. Julie Gerberding, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, has recently upgraded autism to "an urgent health threat." The most contentious issue of the autism debate is the link to routine childhood vaccines. My daughter's case, Hannah Poling v. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, has changed this debate forever. Hannah has pointed us in a new and promising direction —- the mitochondria.

On Nov. 9, 2007, HHS medical experts conceded through the Department of Justice that Hannah's autism was triggered by nine childhood vaccinations administered when she was 19 months of age. This concession was granted without any courtroom proceedings or expert testimony, effectively preventing any public hearing discussing what happened to Hannah and why. Contrary to some reports, the Special Masters, "judges" who preside over the "vaccine court," did not issue a decision.

Four months later, on March 6, with trepidation my wife, Terry, and I stepped forward to announce this news —- providing hope and awareness to other families. The HHS expert documents that led to this concession and accompanying court documents remain sealed, though our family has already permitted release of Hannah's records to those representing the almost 5, 000 other autistic children awaiting their day in vaccine court.

Mitochondria key

To understand Hannah's case, it is important to understand mitochondria, which act like batteries in our cells to produce energy critical for normal function. Because the government's concession hinged on the presence of Hannah's underlying medical condition, mitochondrial dysfunction, some claim the decision is relevant to very few other children with autism. As a neurologist, scientist and father, I disagree.

Emerging evidence suggests that mitochondrial dysfunction may not be rare at all among children with autism. In the only population-based study of its kind, Portuguese researchers confirmed that at least 7.2 percent, and perhaps as many as 20 percent, of autistic children exhibit mitochondrial dysfunction. While we do not yet know a precise U.S. rate, 7.2 percent to 20 percent of children does not qualify as "rare." In fact, mitochondrial dysfunction may be the most common medical condition associated with autism.

Biological markers

Although unlikely, if the Portuguese studies are incorrect and mitochondrial dysfunction were found to be a rarity occurring in less than 1 percent of all autism, it would still impact up to 10,000 children (250,000 worldwide), based on current estimates that 1 million people in the U.S. (25 million worldwide) have autism. If, on the other hand, the research showing that 7.2 percent to 20 percent of children with autism have mitochondrial dysfunction is correct, then the implications are both staggering and urgent.

Autism researchers do not currently understand whether mitochondrial dysfunction causes autism or is simply a secondary biological marker. Autism clearly has many different causes, and should really be separated into multiple autism(s). I propose that we clearly identify and research the subpopulation term of "mitochondrial autism," which is distinguished by its unique biological, but not genetic, markers.

Based on what we know now, it is time to follow the prestigious Institute of Medicine 2004 report regarding autism and vaccines:

"Determining a specific cause (for autism) in the individual is impossible unless the etiology is known and there is a biological marker. Determining causality with population-based methods requires either a well-defined at-risk population or a large effect in the general population."

A paradigm shift

When the IOM report was published, mitochondrial dysfunction defining an autistic subpopulation was not firmly established. Today there is no doubt that mitochondrial dysfunction represents a distinct autism subpopulation biological marker. I urge health officials and the IOM to embrace their own report and pursue this breakthrough in the science of autism. National public health leaders, including those at CDC, must now recognize the paradigm shift caused by this biological marker with regard to their current position of dispelling a vaccine-autism link.

In light of the Hannah Poling concession, science must determine more precisely how large the mitochondrial autism subpopulation is: 1 percent, 7.2 percent, 20 percent?

Based on the 2004 IOM analysis, if the mitochondrial autism subpopulation is found to be relatively uncommon, then all conclusions from prior epidemiological studies refuting an autism-vaccination link must be discarded. New studies then need to be performed exclusively with the mitochondrial subpopulation. If mitochondrial autism turns out to be common, then we could re-analyze the data from prior studies to determine if these studies were powered sufficiently based on a predicted effect size. If not powered appropriately, the conclusion refuting an autism-vaccine link would again have to be rejected. These statistical concepts are basic.

The current vaccine schedule, co-sponsored by the CDC and the American Academy of Pediatrics, injures a small but significant minority of children, my daughter unfortunately being one of those victims. Every day, more parents and some pediatricians reject the current vaccine schedule. In an abundance of caution, meaningful reform must be performed urgently to prevent the re-emergence of serious diseases like polio or measles.

Need for research

As a neurologist, I have cared for those afflicted with SSPE (a rare but dreaded neurological complication of measles), paralytic polio and tetanus. If these serious vaccine-preventable diseases again become commonplace, the fault will rest solely on the shoulders of public health leaders and policymakers who have failed to heed the writing on the wall (scribbled by my 9-year old daughter).

The mitochondrial autism scenario that my daughter has so eloquently painted has the CDC and public health experts logically cornered. Denial and fear tactics won't close Pandora's Box. Whether we find that mitochondrial autism is rare or common, there is urgent research left to be done to fully understand the interrelationship of vaccines, autism and mitochondria.

Reform of the vaccine schedule will be an important part of the solution, whether vaccines play a major or minor role in autism. Our public health agencies and programs need a reconstruction plan. Day one of the reconstruction hopefully starts at the Vaccine Safety Advisory Committee's Working Group, to be held at HHS headquarters today in Washington.

> Dr. Jon S. Poling is a practicing neurologist in Athens and clinical assistant professor at the Medical College of Georgia.

[Holly]

When you consider the science you read, consider the source. This is a lot like the tobacco industry's campaign that smoking was not linked to cancer. Millions of research studies funded by the people who promote a product are likely to have conclusions that support that product. And don't fool yourself. This is a BILLION dollar product.

I'm tired of this debate. The sad truth is that we need to look at the vaccine schedule again and make it safe again. Vaccines have never been 100% safe, but the benefits outweighed the costs....until autism. And don't fool yourself about autism either. We spend BILLIONS of dollars to care for people with autism every year. Even if you have no compassion, the financial costs to society don't outweigh the benefit to the pharmaceuitcal industry.

Don't forget to use common sense. Think, people. All of us parents who say that our kids were hurt by vaccines are not making it up. We have nothing to gain...honest. Very few families are eligible to get any compensation from the government due to changes in the law (in recent years), and the pharmaceutical companies are protected completely from lawsuits because of a little clause in the Homeland Security Act. We are speaking up because we don't want other children to suffer the way ours do. We have little to gain (and honestly don't have time for this crap, but if I can give one family hope...it's worth it). Big pharma has Billions of dollars to gain every year (and their marketing/media people are paid to make you and the doctors think that vaccines are not only safe but necessary).

And one more thing...autism is reversible. Biomedical treatments have recovered thousands of kids. As horrible as things are, there is so much HOPE for children with autism. Our kids are sick, many injured by vaccines and or other environmental insults, and when we help their bodies heal, autism fades away. THAT is where we all need to put our resources! Look up TACA or Generation Rescue to get started on healing your child. Both organizations were created by parents who have given their time and energy to help other families.

Holly
Mom of Quinn, age 5, recovering from autism

[Kev and Matt]

Kev- Did you see Dr. Healy's article in US News and World Report?

Here is a link in case you missed it.

http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/brain-and-behavior/2008/04/10/fighting-the-autism-vaccine-war.html

From Dr. Healy's article:

"A trigger? Families are not alone in searching for a trigger that might explain why autism and autism spectrum disorders have skyrocketed; now they reportedly affect about 1 in 150 kids. No doubt some of the increase is soft, due to broader diagnostic criteria, greater awareness, and—now that the notion of a detached "refrigerator" mom as a cause has blessedly fallen by the wayside—greater openness. But the rise of this disorder, which shows up before age 3, happens to coincide with the increased number and type of vaccine shots in the first few years of life. So as a trigger, vaccines carry a ring of both historical and biological plausibility.

Go back 40 or 50 years. The medical literature is replete with reports of neurological reactions to vaccines, such as mood changes, seizures, brain inflammation, and swelling. Several hundred cases of the paralytic illness Guillain-Barré after the swine flu vaccine were blamed on the government and gave Gerald Ford heartburn—but eventually led to the vaccine court."

Though not a current US Health official she was the former head of the National Institutes of Health. She says vaccines causing autism could be "biologically plausible." Where have we heard that before? Of course that changed when the CDC decided it was better to protect the vaccine scedule then protect indivduals with possible genetic susceptiblity to vaccines and their toxic ingredients.

Even Julie Gerberding agreed vaccines caused autism in Hannah Poling. I saw her tell Sanjay Gupta of CNN it was true. But, in her standard doublespeak she went on to say vaccines don't cause autism. Even she seems confused and unsure.

Oh and Matt (the Matt I assume from AS who thinks it is ok to give children Thimerosal containing flu shots as you proudly boasted your son and wife got one of those this year). Wanted to make sure you didn't miss this part from Dr. Healy's commentary:

"Pediatricians were concerned enough about mercury, which is known to cause neurological damage in developing infant and fetal brains, that they mobilized to have thimerosal removed from childhood vaccines by 2002. Their concern was not autism but the lunacy of injecting mercury into little kids through mandated vaccines that together exceeded mercury safety guidelines designed for adults."

[Ginger Taylor]

Here is Julie Gerberding, head of the CDC explaining how vaccines trigger autism in children with mitochondrial disorders

http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2008/03/julie-gerberding-admits-on-cnn-that.html

Here is a link to the concession document, which states:

"In sum, DVIC has concluded that the facts of this case meet the statutory criteria for demonstrating that the vaccinations CHILD received on July 19, 2000, significantly aggravated an underlying mitochondrial disorder, which predisposed her to deficits in cellular energy metabolism, and manifested as a regressive encephalopathy with features of autism spectrum disorder."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/the-vaccineautism-court-_b_88558.html

Both of these sources admit that in a child with a mitochondrial disorder, vaccines can trigger autism, and in fact, did in Hannah Poling.

[joe]

Kev and Mat

Please circulate - latest research below. The US vaccines-to-autism case of Hannah Poling is not new or rare.

At an American Academy of Neurology meeting last Sunday it was revealed in a recent research paper "Oxidative Phosphorylation (OXPHOS) Defects in Children with Autistic Spectrum Disorders " (see abstract below) that 65% of children with Austistic Spectrum Disorders assessed were found to have mitochondrial disorder (MtD) and so were always at risk of autism caused by one or more vaccines.

[joe]

kev and mat your house of cards is falling ,and you will fade in the darkness
from where you came and the money will soon dry up

The new figures from the AAN meeting correlate with 68% of regressive autism cases following MMR being found to have measles virus RNA in their cerebro spinal fluid (CSF). This was found using sensitive molecular laboratory detection methods. But bear in mind the problem is caused by vaccines in general and not just MMR, as the Hannah Poling case shows.

[Brett]

I'd like to turn the question around, and instead of looking at it from the perspective of vaccinations causing autism look at it from the perspective of the prevention of autism resulting in more cases of measles. From that perspective, I ask the following question:

“If you had to decide between 1 in 150 children becoming autistic because they got a measles vaccination, or a number of children contracting and dying from measles because vaccinations were halted, what would an acceptable number of measles deaths be?”

Or, more concisely,

“How many children would you be willing to kill with measles in order to insure no more children would become autistic?”

Overly simplistic, I know, but it kind of gets to the heart of the matter (imho).

[Heather]

While I agree that measles is a serious disease, I think the whole point is being lost. We are asking that the toxins be taken OUT of the vaccines, and that the MMR (measels mumps rubella) be put into separate shots. Not too much to ask for really if it means a greater chance that a child will not have an adverse reaction to the shot.

http://www.vaccineinformation.org/measles/qandadis.asp
Chance of death by Measels 2 - 1000

CDC website
Chance of autism today 1 in 150.

If you thought that your child could get a lifelong debilitating disease by getting the MMR where the symptoms include running around hitting thier heads on the floor and furniture so much that they had to wear a helmet, or bite themselves so much that they had huge welts on their body or had to be tied down, no communication with the world outside their head, not to know the joy of friends, spouses, children, love.....and they had to endure that for the rest of thier lives....and then you looked at those stats...which would you choose?

Split up the vaccines, space them apart and get the crap out.

[Matt]

"chance" of autism today? What a strange statement. It works in the argument one tries to make--that there is a choice between measles and autism. However, 1 in 150 is a prevalence, not a risk ratio.

That's the number of people with the condition, not the "chance" that someone will "get" autism.

The whole point of this post is that there isn't a choice--it isn't like you can say, "stop vaccinating for measles and autism will go away". That choice isn't on the table at all, because it doesn't exist. Take away the measles vaccine and you will still have autism. Just like in California, thimerosal was removed and not only didn't autism rates go down, they went up.

It isn't a choice.

(Should I write the response to my post where people claim that somehow the mercury isn't all gone and that somehow explains the rise? People will bring up that expiration dates for thimerosal containing vaccines were later, and that there was a year when there was a waiver on the flu vaccine, etc, etc., etc. The fact is, the mercury exposure due to vaccines has gone down in California and the number of kids identified as autistic continued to rise. )

[Ginger Taylor]

Brett,

This does not have to be an either/or proposition.

The choice here is not vaccinate or not vacinate.

It is tailor vaccination more appropriately to the patient.

There is a middle ground between 0 shot and 3 MMR given at the same time as 4 other vaccines.

How 'bout this:

1 measles shot given alone at 1 year. 90 out of 100 kids will gain immunity from that shot. Test all kids for titers, find the 10 kids who didn't, give them a booster at 18 months. Repeat titers at age 2.

Much lower threat to kids health, pretty much the same coverage rate by 18 months.

[lmw]

The problem that exist with mercury will not go away until mercury is no longer used in the manufacturing process, machine cleaning and in some vaccines at the full 25 micrograms including the flu shot which over half of pregnant women and children 6 months and over receive.

It was mentioned earlier that Dr. Frank Engley studied thimerosal as far back as 1942. Dr. Engley is responsible for the 4 year School of Medicine at the University of Missouri. He has consulted for the CDC, IOM, NASA, FDA, EPA, CIA, AAMI, USP, Armed Forces Epidemiological boards, Army, Navy, Air Force as well as Director of research grants and training grants for NIH. Engley Served on the Council of the NIH Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease and a consultant on many Epidemiological Boards too many to list.

Dr. Engley has been a visiting Professor in over 40 foreign countries medical schools. He has produced films, written text books, Laboritory Manuals, over 100 publications, served on editorial boards for numerous scientific journals and periodicals, including four American, two British and one German. Engley is certified by the American Board of Micro Biology and served as the Chair of the Laboratory of American Public Health Association. He has been listed in American Men and Women of Science, Who’s Who in America, Who’s Who in American Education, Who’s Who among Consultants and Who’s Who in the World.

His toxicity studies of mercurials in human tissue culture revealed the mercurials were extremely toxic for human cells and the Thimerosal -- the most active, toxic down to the nanogram. The amounts of mercury have gone down but vaccines still have 100 times that amount when they are in preservative free and reduced thimerosal vaccines.

I have the 3 original thimerosal studies if you would like copies email me directly.

[Matt]

"How 'bout this:"

And this is where the discussion too often leads:

Let's scrap 25 years of research and go with "how 'bout this" from people with no experience in public health and medicine, much less immunology.

How 'bout this: people voice their concerns and observations and let scientists and, mostly, the science make the decision?

We are talking about people's lives here, right? Don't we need more than someone with a degree from Google U saying "How 'bout this"? My kids certainly deserve better.

[Christe]

"Measles, if you'll recall, still kills hundreds of thousands of people a year, most of them under 5 and most of them in less-well-immunized -- and not-so-thoroughly-televised -- countries."

Yes, measles is a very real risk in developing countries where children are impoverished and malnourished. As you said, these children represent most measles morbidity and mortality. Perhaps you should look at what happens when healthy, nourished children are exposed to measles and then talk about risk.

[Kev]

I'd like to ask again, seeing as nobody has answered the question yet, where does the document exist which states:

'Our highest health authorities have stated that vaccines are a cause of autism.'?

Not 'features of autism' but a DSM (IV) diagnosis of autism.

A simple link and quote would suffice.

[Heather]

Brett,

I thought I would respond directly to what you said - see below.

"chance" of autism today? What a strange statement. It works in the argument one tries to make--that there is a choice between measles and autism. However, 1 in 150 is a prevalence, not a risk ratio.

(again, as I said previously, separate the MMR and space out the vaccines. No where did I say that we should not vaccinate our children)

That's the number of people with the condition, not the "chance" that someone will "get" autism.

(Not sure what point you are tyring to make here if 1 in 150 children have autism right now and this is a statistic from the CDC, not a prevalence but a statistical FACT...what do you think the chances of having a autistic child? are? Just looking for clarification)

The whole point of this post is that there isn't a choice--it isn't like you can say, "stop vaccinating for measles and autism will go away". That choice isn't on the table at all, because it doesn't exist. Take away the measles vaccine and you will still have autism. Just like in California, thimerosal was removed and not only didn't autism rates go down, they went up.

(Again, never did I say do not vaccinate, what I said was “Split up the vaccines, space them apart and get the crap out.” The fact that the rates still go up, and the amount of vaccinations given to children in the first 36 months of their life is still rising as well...that doesn’t give you pause?)

It isn't a choice.

(by our constitution we DO have a right to choose. We also have a right to say that we want the vaccine schedule changed so that children’s bodies have a chance to have their immunity built up before we inject live viruses into their bodies. And after we do, give their bodies a longer chance to recover before we introduce a new one. I know many parents who are exercising their rights by going to their pediatrician and saying they want to use an alternate vaccine schedule, their kids still get vaccinated, they just spread out the time in which the infant receives the vaccine.)

Should I write the response to my post where people claim that somehow the mercury isn't all gone and that somehow explains the rise? People will bring up that expiration dates for thimerosal containing vaccines were later, and that there was a year when there was a waiver on the flu vaccine, etc, etc., etc. The fact is, the mercury exposure due to vaccines has gone down in California and the number of kids identified as autistic continued to rise.

(There is still thimerisol in the flu vaccine that is given to infants as well as the flu vaccine given to pregnant woman. Again, I will restate what I said, vaccines are not evil, they save lives, all we are saying we want is an alternative vaccination schedule – and getting things like, “Fetal Bovine syrum, chick embryo cell culture, neomycin which (is extremely nephrotoxic (causes kidney damage), Sorbitol which can also aggravate irritable bowel syndrome and fructose malabsorption. (FYI about 65% of ASD kids…have IBS and malabsorption issues) out of vaccines
the ingredients I just quoted is from the direct quote above from MERK about what is in the vaccine it published by the FDA website. if you want to have some “fun” read the LONG list of potential side effects and dangers of this vaccine combined (here is the link.http://www.fda.gov/cber/label/mmriiLB.pdf.

M-M-R II is a sterile lyophilized preparation of (1) ATTENUVAX* (Measles Virus Vaccine Live), a more attenuated line of measles virus, derived from Enders' attenuated Edmonston strain and propagated in chick embryo cell culture; (2) MUMPSVAX* (Mumps Virus Vaccine Live), the Jeryl Lynn** (B level) strain of mumps virus propagated in chick embryo cell culture; and (3) MERUVAX* II (Rubella Virus Vaccine Live), the Wistar RA 27/3 strain of live attenuated rubella virus propagated in WI-38 human diploid lung fibroblasts.1,2
The growth medium for measles and mumps is Medium 199 (a buffered salt solution containing vitamins and amino acids and supplemented with fetal bovine serum) containing SPGA (sucrose, phosphate, glutamate, and recombinant human albumin) as stabilizer and neomycin.
The growth medium for rubella is Minimum Essential Medium (MEM) [a buffered salt solution containing vitamins and amino acids and supplemented with fetal bovine serum] containing recombinant human albumin and neomycin. Sorbitol and hydrolyzed gelatin stabilizer are added to the individual virus harvests).

If you look at the dangers of the vaccine...it gives a very LONG list of things that may cause an adverse reaction to the vaccine. So, my question to you is, if a infant has any of those specific health issues...should then under your rule that child be vaccinated?

Everyone believes what they want to believe, people have asked for documented proof I gave www.pubmed.com. More proof? There are currently over 4000 cases in vaccine court right now - these are all cases claiming that vaccines injured their child, and this doesnt include many other parents out there whose children regressed after receiving shots. This includes the people who have the cash to hire a lawyer. Go to an autism blog see how many parents say my baby disappeared after their vaccination.

What I will never understand, is why parents who are calling for the vaccine ingredients to be cleaned up and an alternate schedule to help infants bodies better tolerate the vaccines they receive, and a better screening process so children who are at risk of adverse reactions be given differnt alternatives. are being called stupid and being villifed. We arent some uneducated shmoes off the street, trust me Ive done my research. This isnt a death knell to children or a call to not vaccinate a child, this is a call to make all children safe and protect them.
NO child should die, or get severly ill, go blind, loose hearing, not be able to walk, ect...due to a vaccination that has bad ingredients and was given before the infants immunity system had a chance to build up to fight off these live viruses.

It is common sense. It isnt just about autistic kids...it is about EVERYONE'S kids.

[Matt]

". Perhaps you should look at what happens when healthy, nourished children are exposed to measles and then talk about risk."

Perhaps you should look at what happens when not-so-healthy kids are exposed to measles. You know, kids in the United States of America who for one reason or another (say...mitochondrial disease for one?) are at risk of death from vaccine preventable diseases. Then talk about risk.

Then talk about responsibility. Talk about what happens when a healthy kid walks around with a communicable disease. He/she later spends a few days in bed, thanks to his/her health and nutrition. Some other kid, exposed to this disease, may not be so lucky.

Measles kills even in the United States of America. And, it isn't just measles. How about pertussis (whooping cough)?
http://ernursey.blogspot.com/2008/04/whooping-cough.html

Downplaying the dangers of these diseases is a sign of being anti-vaccine.

[LOL]

Kev you're a trip. LOL

Please define features of autism versus DSM (IV) autism? Really, we'd all like to know how you or anybody else can tell the difference.

I think I know.

If a child recovers from autism...according to the "experts" they never were autistic to begin with. If it is determined (as with Hannah) vaccines cause autism...it really isn't autism...it's "autism like".

Do you have any documentation that makes the distinction between "DSM (IV) autism" and "inconvenient to the Public Health machine "features of autism-autism"?

If it matters to you. Hannah Poling's parents both confirmed she was diagnosed with autism. Just becasue Gerberding and other Public Health mouthpieces are calling Hannah's condition something else now because how she became that way makes them uncomfortable doesn't make it so.

[L Parker]

Tammi et al -

How many readers of this article and ensuing discussion have sought out research? How many have actually read and analyzed the actual studies (not just the reviews and news)? Which of the readers has reviewed the MSDS and biochemistry for and from each of the vaccine constituents?

I think, those whose lives are dedicated to stopping autism and helping those affected by autism realize their full potential, the autism families are the only ones. Given their knowledge base is broader and deeper than the average reader, let's simply set aside the autism argument and look beyond...

The vaccine program, like the program "scared straight" (which was designed to keep youths from becoming offenders and actually nearly doubled the likelihood of youths offending), is likely increasing the likelihood of the undesired outcome instead of reducing it. If the purpose of the vaccine program is to improve health outcomes, it is not working.

Point in fact, my fully vaccinated child (who suddenly became "autistic" right after her thrid month of life, within a week of being vaccinated) got the measles. It isn't either-or because the vaccine program DOESN'T WORK.

Since the 80's there has been an explosion of diabetes, heart disease, thyroid disease, ADD, AD/HD, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, pdd, autism, alzheimers, parkinsons, ms, allergies, asthma, cancer, md, and so many more ills. And, despite record-high vaccination uptake across our nation, "outbreaks" of the very diseases our populace was vaccinated against continue in fully vaccinated communities. We are the LEAST healthy generation, ever.

Certainly, our environmental toxic burden is large - our conventional foods are devoid of nutrients and chock-full of pesticides, steroids, antibiotics, and neurotoxic colors and flavors, our water supply is polluted with VOCs, prescription drugs, and dangerous chemicals, our air rains toxicity onto our homes and blows it into our lungs, and we even opt to huff more chemical "fresheners" on our carpets, furniture, and clothing. But, that is simply the icing on the theoretical cake.

We mainlined the cake; vaccines containing known poisons, with gusto. As a people, we never even asked what the side-effects, long-term outcomes, or risks were.

The only safety studies were very short-term; the main study for thimerosal was performed on people who were on their death-bed, anyway - the outcome? They all died. Seriously.

Our torte system works pretty well and helps remedy risks to our people. When Jeep had a roll-over problem, they paid the victims and then they fixed the problem. When Firestone had a blow-out problem, they paid the victims, and then they fixed the problem. When McDonalds' coffee was brewed to an excessively high temperature, they paid the victim, and fixed the problem. And it took a while, but even the cigarrette companies have conceded the damage their products cause, and paid.

The tort system is so effective, the Pharmaceutical industry has sought to be protected from it. They are fully aware of the risk inherent in use of their products, even when used exactly as directed, and wish to be relieved of their responsibility. In fact, they have been relieved of all liability for damage caused by their vaccines.

Not only is Pharma aware of the risks of vaccination, but so is the CDC. So, it appears, is the AAP. It seems, only the American parents have been left uninformed.

We are not told of the actual likelihood of contracting one of the "vaccine-preventable" diseases: out of A exposed, only B will contract the disease; out of B who contract the disease, only C will require a doctor visit; out of C who require the doctor, only D end up needing hospital care; and out of D who required hospital care, E will die.

Further, where are the statistics that demonstrate the likelihood of contracting a disease when good handwashing techniques are employed by EVERYONE in a community? Point of fact, most of these "dread diseases" are spread through mucous secretion and via contaminated hands (diaper changing, nose blowing, toileting, coughing).

Finally, nature provides and excellent defense system when our nutrition is good. Our body's system for handling exposure to viral and bacterial illness is called immune response. We are born with natural barriers to disease (cough reflex, enzymes in skin oils and tears, mucus to trap virus' and bacteria, skin, and stomach acid, to name a few). Further, we aquire immunity through natural exposure. Passive immunity is given to breastfeeding babies, courtesy of their mothers' immune systems. Our blood has white blood cells, chemicals and proteins designed to attack foreign substances and strengthen immunity; it also has a memory to defend against a pathogen when exposure happens after the initial infection has been cleared. Lastly, inflammation occurs to isolate an infection and attract the blood components to help eliminate the danger. This system is designed to handle exposure through the traditional route (skin, respiratory, or mucosal); and does so incredibly effectively.

Aside from what Nature provides, there are other arenas. Homeopathy, plant-based "medicine," energy healing, religious prayer circles, frequecy treatment (see Royal Rife's life work), and many other choices ar available and work quite well.

Why are we so hell-bent of injecting known toxins? What gives anybody the right to tell me I must poison myself or my children? When did PROFIT become more important than people?

Until we, as a community, demand clean food, water, and air, our health will be at risk. Bickering is not solving anything, but a study of vaccinated children versus those who were not vaccinated, might. I would love to see this study look at children 1 month - 12 years to see their health outcomes AND their developmental outcomes (not just whether they "have autism").

Sure, this is very scary for the CDC, AAP, and Pharma because they might be found lacking. But the cost (human and financial) will continue to grow, exponentially, if we don't start to identify what is happening to the health of our youngest generation. From a logical perspective, it only makes sense to ensure the vaccination program is not simply a castle built in the clouds, rather a fortress dug into the bedrock of this nation's faith.

We have spent over $512,288,000,000.00 on Iraq. It is time to spend a little money, here at home, to ensure the health and welfare of the American populace.

This is not Jonesville. When you drink the "Kool-Aid," yourself (36 jabs for a total exposure to 53 virus' in 5 years), if you are still able, feel free to tout the benefits to all who will listen. Until then, we "Autism Parents" will advocate education and remediation.

They say insanity is continuing to do things the same way and expecting a different outcome. The vaccine program is not working.

I may be a pain in the kiester, but I am NOT insane.

[S.L.]

Interesting that some note how vaccines can "cause" autism in children with mitochondrial disease. Especially since vaccines are VERY much recommended for those who have mito. The immunizations help to keep these at-risk children from getting diseases (that for them, would most likely land them in the hospital and place them at higher risk for death than the general population). Also worth noting, is that kids with mito can have "autistic features" or even autism. And, furthermore, that anything from a fever to a virus can exasperate or "bring out" the full effects/signs of mitochondrial disease.

The statistics many are now reading and running with:

"Here at the American Academy of Neurology 60th Annual Meeting, a retrospective analysis of 41 children with ASD who were being evaluated for suspected mitochondrial disease showed that 32 (78%) had defects in skeletal muscle oxidative phosphorylation (OXPHOS) enzyme function and 29 of 39 (74%) harbored abnormalities in the OXPHOS proteins."

Read the study (the real one, not an article about it, fudging the real statistics!). This is NOT a random sample of autistic individuals. These are children who were already suspected of having a mitochondrial disorder. To make the statement that 60-70% "of children with autism have mitochondrial disorder" is utterly false & unfounded (yet I see it thrown about all over).

I'm having a difficult time finding the "68% of regressive autism cases following MMR being found to have measles virus RNA in their cerebro spinal fluid (CSF)" study. I do, however, come across study after study (in country after country) finding zero linkage between MMR and autism. Just curious that I'm unable to find this study--is it not published? Please advise if you have a direct link to the study itself. Thanks.

[joe harris]

Imw I am the original poster on the part about the Great Dr. Engly
and would like to have the orig. 3 studies my Email is ccdaddy57@yahoo.com

[GGGmomof3]

I recently had a gestational carrier deliver my husband and my three biological children (yes, triplets) on Jan 11 at a scheduled c-section at 35 weeks 2 days. (That entire story is too long to go into.) Most importantly; all went well and I now have 2 very healthy girls and a boy that are thriving over 15 and 16 pounds respectively.

My husband and I studied the pro's and con's in great detail ( the scientific studies as well- I've been doing the same for infertility for 6 years before this so it is a usual practice for me.) and have opted not to vaccinate them at this point and time with any immunizations. Why? because of a probably very little known fact to all those that come to their own convictions on vaccinations after having autism occur in their family later after birth and the introduction of vaccines.

That fact that should be scientifically earth shattering to any theories on autism is that 1 in 4 premature ( under 4 lbs/ before 30 weeks) babies get autism. DID you catch that- 1 in 4! That was also publicly posted on CNN on their autism awareness day. Fortunately, Our children were further along and bigger than that by 12 ozs to 17 ozs. however we were not taking any chances with those odds regardless of 5 weeks and 12 ozs in our favor.

BTW, that 1 in 4 statistic does not even take into account the gender factor and the fact we live in NJ- which has the highest autism rate and widespread free vaccine state funding and very agressive schedules required for schooling with the threat of child negligence to those less educated on the subject and their rights to challenge the CDC and their government funded agency sources.

Most importantly- that premature 1 in 4 statistic tidbit of info should shoot all this individual genetic exception discussions alittle further away from the crux of the pro CDC schedule people's causative arguments.

Overall ( with very few exceptions on the part of the mother not the baby) prematurity is not determined by genetics. There are many circumstances that cause premature births that are not as unusual as my situation either. So -why would this be such an extraordinary statistic and be so disproporationately out of wack with the 1 in 150 statistic that is out there in the general popluation?

It goes to the very root cause of what the manufacturers of vaccinations , the AAP, and the CDC never studied. The actual threshold of an infant's own immature, underdeveloped autoimmune/ biological/ physical system to breakdown and process the volume of foreign substances and foreign diseases that are introduced to them at the same volume as adults in the condensed period of time that the CDC and the AAP is instructing the US to follow.

Infants have immature, underdeveloped immune systems. Premature infants have an even more depressed immune system that needs to catch up. The AAP and the CDC state that the birth date only matters when they immunize infants not the gestational age yet when I go for my wellness visits they state that developmentally the children's weight/ height or skills per the AAP could ( even though they are not) be behind because they were born early and that is acceptable to the pediatrician and the AAP.

So--- the AAP believes my childrens' internal organs magically develop quicker than their motor skills by some miracle- if anything any layman would anticipate an infant's motor skills to develop quicker because they are in this world MOVING AND that the liver and GI tract in these little guys are still trying to catch up and still mature further once outside the womb....(Please think about what a big contra-indicating statement that is from the AAP.)

And, in the fearful world of having a premature baby new parents are not focusing on immunizations. ( I was in a unique position to focus on this b/c I did not give birth to our children) They are anticipating these shots to assist their fragile little ones boost their immunity instead of realizing the vaccines initially threatens their babies fragile bodies and some are vaccinating them even before they are even 40 weeks of gestational age with all those vaccines at once in the NICU. That is scary stuff- but yet once again- the recommendation of the CDC and the AAP.

And think about it, the medical community would be the first to point to prematurity to be the cause of autism not the immunizations that were pumped into a severly immature, tiny, unprepared, immune system. But the numbers were never this high before the increase in vaccines....

In the NICU, we refused the Hep B- the doctor did not even bat an eye at that decision. (You could tell he instrinsically had no issue with our decision and probably even welcomed it.)

Why did we do that?
There was a very importat study done on the Hep B vaccine
( which clearly makes no sense for an newborn to get anyhow) that the additives in the vaccine were present at vastly greater amounts in the livers of lower birth rate babies ( e.g. premature babies) than those that were heavier (more full term). Even though there was still a residual amount in the liver of those as well. So as scientists they decided to give a birth weight recommendation for the Hep B vaccine which in theory is not a correct corelative factor. They weigh less because they are premature... not because they simply weigh less....think about that... the factors for giving the vaccine should have been maturity of the infant in addition to the weight...

I am not naive to the dangers of diseases. My children's risk factors are a bit lower than possibly others- my children are not in group daycare,they are at home being cared for by my husband and I and they do not have older siblings in a school district where illnesses run rampant. We also have worn cloth masks ( once or twice) when sick ourselves when handling the babies. Knock on wood, they have not been sick once in the last 4-5 mths.

I continually have asked the doctors which vaccines really matter and they do not want to say...but when you keep rephrasing it they eventually will give you something other than what the AAP says. Push for that frankness with your doctor. Note- my pediatrician did not not tell me the premature statistic -she had to admit she knew about it once I mentioned it. Not a good sign from my perspective. I stated the study above and she tilted her head with that one shoulder shrug combo nod we get from doctors when we start doing our own research/ thinking and she had to admit she had heard of the disparate increase of autism in the premature infant group. She could not tell assure me our children's livers were mature.

For us, that premature 1-4 autism statistic vs. vaccinating our children is not even able to be compared against the diseases their grandmother had and survived all of including mumps, measles, chicken pox,and her brother's bout with whooping cough.

So far we are past the suggested rotavirus- no need to worry about that one ... Our goal is to independently study the vaccines that are available to us and make informed decisions that are right for our children. I anticipate that my husband and I will wait until the children are alittle older for the polio and dpt and pray that in the next 4-5 years someone brings to market a reconstituted MMR shot that is separated out without additives so we feel comfortable with the measles vaccine.

Although not feasible for all that have their children in outside daycare- Time does buy you less shots when you you look at the catch up schedules after 5 yrs of age set by the CDC especially if your children's birth date can help you out as ours do when it comes to starting school....I will get flack for pointing that out to you all that are still on the fence on this subject.

I wish you all well and us the strength to think independently and with our own common sense and intelligence when we make decisions regarding vaccinations.

If you have never watched the movie "Thank you for smoking" please do asap- it inspires a clear 360 view of the world we live in and why it is so important to think and learn.

I discussed our decisions with my mother. She said something that caught my thoughts. She commented that the doctor and her debated on whether or not to give me the small pox vaccine when I was young b/c it was no longer prevalent in the states but still available. They opted not to based on me and the demographic of the disease. I can't even imagine today; Merck or my doctor telling us we do not need one of their vaccines anymore because the risk is not that high-Merck would never give up the revenue stream. My mother's freedom is the freedom of thought on my families health and all of our families that we need to preserve.

I hope I have shed some different perspectives on this argument above for you all.

[John Fryer]

Mr Parker

You talk of vaccines saving the lives of those born with mito problems.

It is my understanding that the mito comes direct from the mother and therefore the mito should be identical with that of the mother. How does mito from an ancient process get compromised except from a toxic substance?

Mercury is a known destroyer of mito along with more than 50 other pathways.

Mercury is still in vaccines as at 2008 May and will therefore have negative effects on these pathways.

Why do we give vaccines at day one followed by five vaccines at a time and then ignore warning signs of gradual degeneration of the child from the onslaught?

In the 1950's we had four vaccines in total.

Today for reasons not apparent from medications that are claimed to be efficace we can have five or more of the same vaccine given ad nauseum until the risk of brain damage is raised more than tenfold.

Why do we treat people who are fit and well in order to make so many ill?

Why do we imagine the worlds most toxic non radioactive element can be withstood by a 1 day old child but kill a full grown man?

Why in fact do we lie and say autism has gone up when mercury has been removed when mercury in vaccine exposure has gone up in proportion with the autism cases.

In short why does government and power lie to the working class man?

Mercury is in vaccines at the full levels of before: FACT