IRAQ: To shoot or not to shoot is the question

In the end, the criminal case against Marine sniper Sgt. Johnny Winnick (pictured) may boil down to the simplest but yet most confounding question facing troops in Iraq: When can a Marine or soldier use deadly force against a suspected insurgent?

It's a question not even supposed experts can agree on. During the preliminary hearing completed Wednesday, a Marine lieutenant testified that he asked two majors — one a lawyer, the other a battalion executive officer — and got contradictory explanations.

Winnick is charged with manslaughter and assault for killing two Syrians and wounding two others.

Winnick says he opened fire because he believed the men were planting a roadside bomb, but no bomb was found. His superiors say he lacked the "positive identification" and "reasonable certainty'' needed to squeeze the trigger.

But what do those terms mean, particularly for snipers whose job is to kill the enemy from ambush at long range?

Winnick's attorney, Gary Myers, tried to get one of Winnick's fellow snipers to define "reasonable certainty." The young Marine said that, well, reasonable certainty means being reasonably certain.

"This is all words," said an exasperated Myers.

An officer testified that reasonable certainty means being "85% certain." Another said it means being "pretty damn sure."

A Pentagon expert called by Myers disagreed with the "85% certain" rule. He thinks young troops are being given confusing and contradictory guidelines by their superiors. He's written about his concerns in a tome titled ''Combat Self-Defense: How to Save America's Warriors From Risk-Adverse Commanders and Their Lawyers."

The hearing officer in Winnick's case will send a recommendation within 10 days to Lt. Gen. Samuel Helland about whether the case should go to court martial, be dropped or handled administratively.

Helland may have his own views. He began his military career as an enlisted soldier attached to Army Special Forces in Vietnam.

— Tony Perry, at Camp Pendleton

Photo: Sgt. Johnny Winnick, with sniper rifle in Iraq. Credit: Winnick family

Comments

[Randy Sparks]

This is a war. I praise the actions of our soldiers here. Not bloodthirsty, but the dead here knew they were engaging in suspicious acts that could get them killed. So don't do these acts in a war zone. Our soldiers should not have to wonder if they will be prosecuted back home for saving lives over there.

[mike mc]

The Feds need to take over these prosecutions and should look at some of the past dismissals without a trial such as that Marine Lt who shot his prisioners. The military and specifically the Marine Corps has demonstrated a poor record of holding people accountable. 99.99% of our troops serve honorably but the ones that violate the Geneva Conventions and US law need to be held accountable. The military has too much of an interest is seeing these cases end in dismissal.

[3 Hawks]

As a Viet Nam vet, this whole issue would not be an issue if the press were not involved. We once had a press corps come to our company saying they had a right to go out with us and we told them yes they did, but they would not come back with us. Shooting in these situations is a second by second decesion and anyone who can't see this obviously has never been in combat. This Marine should get a medal..not a hearing. What is it with you people out there who think war is 'fair'...?? When your own head is the target, all the 'nice guy' stuff is out the window. We lost Viet Nam because of the press telling the people at home what they wanted them to hear and tied the hands of our troops with nice guy stuff. If Bush had any real guts...if he even knows what that means...he would yank every press person out of the country and let these men and women do their job...but what would he know about being in combat...oh yeah...maybe fighting over a drink of booze ...
Wake up America...our troops didn't ask for this war...they just do it and this Marine did his job...same as you whiners who have never been shot at except with a camera will whine because it is your job.
Give this Marine a medal...he earned it and get off our troops backs with tying their hands. Best thing...don't go to war...but if our troops are sent...kick ass...and take names if any survive. We are a country of lazy people who want all the pleasures with no sacrifice. Get off your butt and go to Irag...or better yet...vote...and get out of these unnecessary wars. Our troops and Marines die for some moron in the White House...how long will this country put up with this until we have had enough. Oh..that's right...you don't have to stand up...some one else will....

[Keith Hulme]

For god's sake stop doing this to your soldiers,whom your President has put in harm's way.
You can't fight a war with your hands tied behind your back!
Keith Hulme,
Vietnam veteran,
Australia.