ISRAEL: The non-negotiation negotiations

In what can be interpreted as a sign of progress in indirect talks between Hamas and Israel, Hamas on Monday denied any progress and Israel denied the talks were even taking place.

"There is no cease-fire agreement with Hamas, and nor are there direct or indirect talks," said Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

The indirect talks, meanwhile, continue quietly with Egypt playing go-between. Egyptian officials met with Hamas representatives last week in the Sinai city of El Arish and are scheduled to do so again this week.

At the very least, both sides have independently decided to cool off for a bit. There have been no Israeli air strikes or land incursions into the Gaza Strip for about five days. Palestinian rocket fire toward nearby Israeli cities has also dropped off dramatically. 

Hamas spokesman Iman Taha acknowledged that Egypt was working to mediate between the two sides but said no cease-fire agreement had been reached.

“The current [calm] situation is more a tactical decision by Hamas than an agreement with Israel," he said.

— Ashraf Khalil in Jerusalem

Photo: Palestinian children take part in a rally against Israeli strikes on Gaza Strip, in the Rafah refugee camp in the southern Gaza Strip, on March 9, 2008. AFP PHOTO/SAID KHATIB

Comments

[Phil]

Dr. Heedleman, I am shocked that you would repeat the same lies about the origins of Israel that have been so discredited in Israel itself. Although you believe yourself to be an educated man, you are spreading the same misinformation you were taught as a child. The Jews did not "buy" any significant portion of the land they now occupy -- they stole it. They had to slaughter the inhabitants of more than 500 Arab villages and 11 Arab cities in 1948 to make the "dream" come true. The Jews were far less than one-third of the population of Palestine in 1948. Please read "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" by Ilan Papp, an Israeli historian, before you get too impatient with others.

[JA]

I'd encourage you to read Dr. Ilan Pappe's "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine". He is a senior Israeli lecturer of political science at Haifa university.

Enjoy.

[S Johnston]

The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. The Israelis never miss and opportunity to miss an opportunity. If rivers of blood are what the middle east wishes drink from. Stay away from the rest of the world. Aircraft should never be allowed to land or take off in Israel or the Arab world because you are ALL nothing more than murderous thugs. You have proven this in every possible way for thousands of years. Religion? Spirituality? You know nothing of these subjects.

[Ben]

If you want to know the truth about the Israeli – Palestinian conflict you should read about how Israel was created in 1948? And how the helpless Palestinian Bedouins and peasants were murdered by the Zionists (the founders of modern Israel) gangs? And the rest of the Palestinians fled and became refugees all over the world and very few stayed in what is known today as Israel and the West Bank and Gaza. Read the Zionist connection by Alfred Linenthal and Perfidy by Ben Hecht both are American Jewish writers. If you want to ignore history facts and just want to make opinions out of your head then you are just a person who hates Arabs and Muslims for no reason but for the sake of hate You are a hateful person. Arab, Palestinian, Muslim individuals became violent recently (perhaps for the last 20 years) because of desperation and after their governments were defeated by American and Western supported Israeli army. Ironically the Christen West and the USA helped creating "Israel” as a Jewish State for fundamentally religious reasons in the past until today which led to the rise of Islamic fundamentalism. It is a scientific law "for every action there is a reaction…."

[amer]

well all u guys talk is from behind ur computer in ur own country u dont know anything about the suffering that is happening to the people in palestine well i know u dont care all i hope is peace in palestine and let the isreal move from the land and i dont find it weird that u guys talk about islam like that cause u guys hate us and am not an ARAB i am from AFRICA well i guess now u guys will be racist on me cause am black hehheeh it is just sad that u guys judge a religion based on few fucking terrorist groups which u guys see it all the time which makes seem that all muslims are terrorist but i really dont care what u guys think all i want is peace in the middle east and one more thing ur comment about islam which is very insulting to my religion doesnt effect me as long as i know it is growing and growing:) and PEACE TO ALL

[Samuel Needleman, MD]

Monkey master:

Jews did not steal the land. Most of it was purchased quite legally between 1880 and 1930. WWII drove a lot of Jews there and created Israel. I think jews deserved it after centuries of pogroms and genocide. As I said, antisemites may have made us more aggressive better soldiers through a process of natural selection. There is now a flourishing democracy there. Scientific and medical advances come from Israel's universities. Had there been no immigration, there would be nothing more than tribes and goat herders there. Of course Allah would be worshipped.

There is some debate about the civil liberties for non-jews in Israel. The fact that there is even debate means Jews treat non-jews far better than vice versa. The fact that there is privation for palestinians is regrettable, but results in the need for self-preservation.

In 1948 several arab nations attacked Israel. 5000 jews defeated them, with shamefully little help from the Western world. Thus, what was not purchased with money was purchased with blood and courage. Stop the unprovoked antisemitic aggression, and I guarantee Israel will help the palestinians to a better life.

It's true i dont really know much about Arabs or Muslims and what is a race. I do know that whereever people have a fervent belief in Allah or Christ, they are more likely to commit irrational, heinous acts "in the name of God." Christians seemed to have outgrown most of it.

Any atheist or Jewish crusades? Witch trials? Beheadings? Suicide bombers? Hijackings? Hanging of teenagers? Isolated whole communities committing suicide?

You can always look at statistics to make your point. Obviously, the percentage of Moslems who commit violence is small, and I cannot prejudge an individual Moslem. On the other hand, the percentage of violent irrational acts these days is virtually 100% of the time committed by someone who fervently believes in Allah or Christ.

Whereever people worship Allah one sees exclusively more of:

random terrorist explosions, beheadings, kidnappings, mistreatment of women, hangings, hostage taking, poverty, sexual repression, death threats to authors,death threats to cartoonists, political corruption (Arafat hurt the palestinians far more than Israel), lack of eduction, rejection of the scientific method, theocracy, intolerance of pluralism, etc.

Most of us are sick of it. Few of us have the courage to speak about it frankly. The one thing that might save the Western world is that Sunnis and Shiites are so blinded by their religious hatred that they may destroy each other before they destroy civilization.

[KO]

I would like to know how else the Palestinians can fight the Israeli occupation in this war. They started with throwing stones against Israel's modern weapons, made mortars and rockets in their metal shops. If the Palestinians get satellite guided missiles somehow and start being able to aim them at military targets, would people stop criticizing? The loss of life on the Palestinian side is 10x of the Israelis in this conflict. Desperate times calls for desperate measures, and the Palestinians are cornered and desperate. Also don't forget that America fought an occupation to be independent.

[darkmonkeymaster]

Dear Samual Needleman,
While reading what you had to say, I came across the following comment.

"Every time I see a Moslem male between 20 and 35 in an airport, I am tense. That is not racism, my boy. That is EMPIRICISM It is laughable that to avoid litigation we waste millions of dollars and hours searching little old non-moslems like my wife: an 83 lb invalid terrorist. Now that is the opposite of racism. That is democracy and egalitarianism, stretched to the absurd by trial lawyers. Right to privacy? Reasonable cause for search and seizure? Gone, thanks to Islam."

I find it ironic that you believe yourself not to be racist. First of all, I assume that you mean that whenever you see an Arab you tense, since Islam is not a race, but a religion and thus there are not any distinguishing physical characteristics that are inherent in a belief (China and Indonesia have more Muslims then the Middle-East combined). I have the feeling that you indeed are a racist since you assume Arabs are inferior in that they are more prone to violence (regardless of where they came from). You claim that that Islam is responsible for what is happening right now in the Middle-East, but you pay no attention to the historical events that caused this chain of violence. Israel formed by taking the land of the Palestinians with the support of the West. Obviously, this would make any native population angry and violent. No sane human being would willingly give up their homes and right to self-govern without fighting. However, that was in the past. What is happening now is that the current Palestinians are living in situation of poverty and despair-much of it caused by Israel''s constant bombings and restrictions (for example, they recently blocked off exchange of food and medical supplies in Gaza). Such a situation would naturally cause hatred and violence(look at places like Haiti). What the West is doing now is placing blame on a religion and race so that it can protray Muslims as less then human and thus makes it easier for the public to stomach a war that has already killed hundreds of thousands of people. This is like what the Nazis did during WWII.

Also, the Palestinians didn't steal the land from the Jewish people- they were actually exiled by the Christian Byzantine empire a 1000 years ago and many of them were allowed to return because of the Muslims. Historically, Muslim treatment of the Jewish people was much better then Christian. Also, to everyone else here, regardless of the fact, just because the Old Testament says that God promised the Jewish people the land doesn't mean that it should be taken from people who are already living there.

[flex10333]

THE FACT IS THAT UNTIL RADICAL GROUPS SUCH AS HAMAS, HISBOLA AND ETC ARE DESTROYED AND WIPED OF THE FACE OF THE EARTH THE PALASTINIANS WILL NEVER HAVE PEACE. THESE GROUPS SAY THEY ARE FIGHTING FOR THE POEPLE BUT THEY CONTINUOUSLY COUSE THEM PAIN AS THEY SEND ROCKETS TO ISRAEL THE BOARDERS GET CLOSED AND SANCTIONS ENFORCED. SO PEOPLE THINK AND SUPPORT ALL THE ISRAELI FORCED AND US FORCED THAT FIGHT AGAINST THESE RADICAL GROUPS.

MAY THEY ALL DIE AND FEEL THE PAIN OF ALL THOSE WHO THEY HURT.

[Samuel Needleman, MD]

I am quite confident that i read more than Ken, am at least as bright. Individually, I treat every one the same, and work with many moslem physicians. But as a GROUP Islam in modern times has a shameful history: beheadings, hijackings, the world trade center, the SSS Cole. Someone has circulated a list on the net. It is very long and filled with atrocities.

Yes Christians are not free of guilt when it comes to antisemitism. Read Goldhagen. The teachings of the Catholic Church laid the foundation for nazism. It is arguable over which group would give me more paranoia, devout christians or moslems.

I am an atheist, and as Sam Harris points out, ALL religion, even moderately practiced, sets the stage for this barbarism. In his book "End of Faith," he outlines how Christianity has yielded (with great reluctance) to the modernization of the world and the scientific method. Sadly, Islam has not. He calls your fundamentalists 7th century minds with 21st century weapons.

How many suicide bombings and beheadings have Jews and Atheists committed? We are fighting back for our very preservation. Freedom of expression (like Rushdie) would be gone; emancipation and enfranchisement of women would be gone; humor; music; equality. Instead we would have floggings of teenage girls for getting raped; Hangings of promiscous teenage girls.

If someone suggests moslems are violent, they riot and kill a nun. I am not only suggesting it, I am shouting it. If you want freedom from Western retaliation, stop the bombing, beheading, hanging, hijacking. Name one good thing Islam has done for humanity. Every time i travel on an airplane I am reminded of how much the "Religion of Peace" has contributed to humanity.

Every time I see a Moslem male between 20 and 35 in an airport, I am tense. That is not racism, my boy. That is EMPIRICISM It is laughable that to avoid litigation we waste millions of dollars and hours searching little old non-moslems like my wife: an 83 lb invalid terrorist. Now that is the opposite of racism. That is democracy and egalitarianism, stretched to the absurd by trial lawyers. Right to privacy? Reasonable cause for search and seizure? Gone, thanks to Islam.

[Brucey]

To DMADMAN: You are correct that the NEW Testament was changed and altered thousands of times. But the same is NOT true of the Torah. It has never been changed. All through the ages, if there was the discovery of even one altered or different word or letter in a Torah, that scroll was closed until corrected, or even destroyed. The Quran, on the other hand, was written perhaps 2000 years after the Torah, and is obviously an "Arabized" copy of it. Mohammed listened to readings of the Torah, and then made up his own version of a holy book which accommodated his own screwed up vision of the world. The Arab world's only hope is to give up their horrible, violent and intolerant religion.

[bobbybee]

Did someone say Turkey has freedom of speech? Hahaaaahaahaahaa,,,
Try going in and Turkish city and saying anything that will insult Turkishness... U'll be prosicuted under ARTICLE 301.

[Clayton Niehaus]

Place blame where blame is due, and that blame is not on Islam or Judaism. There are two countries in the middle east where large majorities of muslims believe peace with Israel is a good idea: Israel and Turkey which happen to be the two strong secular democracies in the middle east with long traditions of free speech.

The rest of the countries of the middle east, Palestine included, are brutal dictatorships with state controlled media and state controlled schools that spew hate. These are also countries where anyone who protests against the government or government policies (like war against Israel) is disappeared or publicly murdered. Let's not kid ourselves Hamas murders more Palestinians than it murders Israelis and that is why there is not one political party in Palestine that openly and fully supports peace.

The sad thing is that the brutal dictatorships of the middle east like Syria and Iran created this situation. They supported brutal people like Yassir Arafat who began his terrorist activities years before there where occupied territories. The moment he even pretended to make peace with Israel that support shifted to Hamas who suddenly got lots of money, which they used to open health clinics and buy public opinion, and guns , which they used to murder their political opponents. The same formula has been used in Lebanon to elevate Hezbollah.
If tommorrow Hamas made peace with Israel suddenly Islamic Jihad or some other militant group would get all the money and guns to seize power. What is going on here is essentially an insurgency.

The middle east needs to offer Israel a fair deal if there is ever to be peace which would include the following:

The right of return for jews who were expelled from arab countries in exchange for the return of Palestinian refugees and the promise that jews will enjoy full rights and the protection of their property or that muslim countries will accept Palestinian refugees as full citizens instead of returning jews

Jews should clearly be allowed full control and title to the jewish quarter of the old city of Jerusulum: an area muslims ethnically cleansed of all Jews in 1948. Israel is currently building settlements around Jerusulum to secure its claim on the city, a city that Jews claim is sacred to their people - I wish the muslim world would give them a better way to secure what justly belongs to the Jewish people

Lastly the law must be enforced: lets not kid ourselves - every missle fired at Israel is an attempt to murder Jews and someone needs to be punished for it. It would be preferable if Palestine or the muslim world would do it themselves. If they prefer not to do their moral duty then much like Nazi Germany, which was evil because it was a brutal dictatorship with a state controlled media and school system which spewed hate and disappeared or publicly murdered any political dissadents, then Palestine too can become a country of ruins that will lose a generation of young men while fighting and unjust and immoral war.

[gmanusarmy]

Im no religous scholar, but jews were on that land before islam was even a religion, so why do muslims believe that they are the only ones who have a right to it. And if muslims believe in the torah, as a holy scripture, and Abraham & moses, then they would know that god promised the jews israel, the land of milk and honey, and they left slavery in egypt. I wish we could all just live together. But that seems increasingly harder and harder when you have extremist on both sides. Some of the ultra-orthodox jews are as bad as the muslims extremists........you just need to respect other people, and treat your neighbor the way you want to be treated......

[ken]

Samuel, "MD!"

"I think the press should never quote an antisemite when he speaks of "Israeli atrocities." It should ALWAYS be pointed out that the action was a RESPONSE to an unprovoked lethal (or attempted) attack."
---
You're a doctor right? I guess you must read your everyday news. Please research news media outlets and see how many of them DO NOT refer to Israeli action as RESPONSE. Almost all of them do as you would like them to (at least from the US) .

The problem with people like you is that you would like to censor the whole world and paint everything black and white. So anybody who hates jews is anti-semite and anybody who disagrees with Israel ALSO is an anti-semite. By bringing up this racist rant you can silence anybody who might be bringing up a valid argument.

Please refer to hundreds of UN reports, human rights watch group obversations on Israel - you will find multiple violations by a country which was founded as a result of a human rights tragedy. How Ironic!!

And if you think the whole world is biased check US state departments annual human rights reports. Even there you will find documentation on atrocious Israeli behavior. The only difference is they are very cautious in presenting the subject because Israel stands in clear violation of US human rights laws which will bar the congress from providing aid to Israel. So we hide their ills and look the other way.

And all your Islamophobes who think muslims/arabs will commit another holocaust and Islam is not peaceful - Nazis were CHRISTIANS!! Anti-semitism has its roots in christianity right from early days. Christian Europe and its illegitimate offspring US has always been racist and hateful against non-whites and jews. The history of jerusalem shows people were happier under muslim rule than christian rule.

And lastly, Palestinian struggle is not an Islamic struggle. They are muslims and gain their strength from their religion just like Jewish terrorists did during the 1930s and 1940s. Please look up Irgun and Lehi's bombings and assassinations in their fight for "Freedom" against the british. If Palestinians do the same thing for their freedom they're terrorists?

White people were racist a 1000 years back and they're still the same as one can see from the above comments!

Ofcourse americans support Israel. Why won't they support a country which stole land from the locals and committed atrocities on them? It does remind them of their ancestors who were equally bigoted and racist imperialist bas.tards!

[kchery]

Frankly I can careless about the conflict between the jews (Israelis) arabs (palestinians). This conflict started thousands of years ago and it is still going strong. It is unfortunate that the United States is wasting so much money in both Israel and Palestine. The bottom line is Jews and Arabs can't live side by side, their hatred is mutual. It is sad that dogs and cats can make friends but Israelis and Palestinians cannot. Everything has a beginning and everything has an end except the money and life wasting Israeli and Palestinian conflict.

[doc3558]

Amplifying Matt, religion is merely a vestige of clan behavior from the cave man era. It provides nothing but poor understanding of a changing world, and ethnocentric hatred.

Sure palestinians would prefer that Israel be passive and allow them to launch another holocaust. I believe, however, that there was a Darwinian-like section inadvertently committed by the nazis and the Evian conference people when they killed 6 million of us. The ones that got to Israel were selected for intelligence, combativeness, durability, resourcefulness, etc. They make terrific warriors.

I think the press should never quote an antisemite when he speaks of "Israeli atrocities." It should ALWAYS be pointed out that the action was a RESPONSE to an unprovoked lethal (or attempted) attack.

[Samuel Needleman, MD]

I do not understand why the media quote antisemites verbatim when they say "Israeli" atrocities. Responsible journalism, i would think, would ALWAYS add that the action in question is INVARIABLY a response to an unprovoked attack on innocent civilians. The Israeli military doctrin affords a respect to rights and liberties to all people, irrespective of religion. This is hardly comparable to Muslim doctrin.

When describing an Israeli strike, this should always be added. Or reference to the monstrous beheadings should be added. Or the torture, disemboweling and beheading of two captured GI's from the 101st.

Obviously the people who practice "The Religion of Peace" would prefer that Israel just allow these missile attacks and continue sending money and creating jobs for them.

Jews will never again be passive in response to an attempted genocide. I wonder if the fact that Israel has such a successful army and airforce is a manifestation of a Darwinian-like selection that the nazis may have inadvertently performed: once could argue that the passive jews were less likely to escape the holocause, while those who did tend to be smarter, less passive, more resourceful, less gullible...and make great soldiers.

[ian grace bukidnon]

to all: every events that is happening in the middle east only proves that the bibile is right, no government here on earth that can give peace and prosperity try to read the bible it will explain what must happen first before God will wipe out sins and satan the bibile also tells what is the role of the United states of America and the vatican before judgement would come, read read read and read!

[drnadman]

sorry one last thing...Did we all forget that Israel launched a missile at Turkey and nobody did anything? So why is Israel free to do as they please?